What of Elam now??

[warrior9]

2 hours ago, JMM said:

Hmm, let's see I posted an OPINION, on a message board. How OUTRAGEOUS! I mean if we dont speak on known 100% facts, then possibly the internet police should come for me. Shudder...Now let's see, local pundits that cover the team for a living stated this was likely. National pundits also suggested it, many on this board did as well. But hey , what do they know? Good enough? Remember though

, from now on, nobody on this OPINION board is allowed to state ONE, they can only comment on KNOWN FACT.  Assumption is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Right?

Never said you couldn't post an opinion.... Did your wife / girlfriend / little sister write this for you ? 

 

"Obviously the Bills tried to trade him. Possibly they never got a good offer, but it's just as likely no other team was really interested." That, my friend, isn't an opinion. 

 

What an odd little temper tantrum. 

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

I guess you feel that YOUR opinions can’t be challenged/questioned? That’s the only reason I see for this little fit.

 

Yes, many local and some national football pundits thought the Bills might try to trade Elam. You turned that into “OBVIOUSLY the team tried to trade him.” Bit of reach, no? That’s why you were questioned but I guess you can’t handle that.

Yeah, his little fit was childish. 

 

Didn't rebut my question just deflected lol 

[Nephilim17]

22-year-old with first-round traits may improve and fit the system over time. He may not, but it's ridiculous to try to assert with certainty that he can't be better and a starter in a year or two.

[JoPoy88]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah sure, teams definitely say, “man this draft bust sucks so bad, I hope no one tries to trade for him,” lmao.

 

If teams were poking around on Elam and offering conditional 7ths, yeah Beane probably said no. But Elam being inactive pretty much every week means he was on the market, and every other GM knew it.

not sure how you pulled the bold from what I said, I didn’t imply that at all.

 

And Elam being inactive so many weeks =/= “he was on the market.” There are other, valid reasons for landing on the inactive list. His level of play/practice habits being the most obvious. That doesn’t mean they are willing or eager to trade him at this stage. Again, similar to the OP, you’re stating your assumptions as fact. 

[Nelius]

I agree with the positive takes and the 22 year old upside, but it’s all a bit weird really, going back to his abysmal, looking lost play in the preseason. Worried he has the football equivalent of the yips (is that also the yips?) or something mental at this point. Was enough to end Knoblauch’s career.

[Arkady Renko]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

For a good number of Bills draft picks, they aren’t allowed to get better by playing, or be decent on early on a rookie contract.
 

They’re required to sit behind some free agents until they’re a free agent. Once you go from rookie deal to extension, then and only then, can you grasp the Buffalo Bills.

Yet somehow someway Bernard and Benford have cracked the lineup.  

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

My opinion is there was nothing “obvious” surrounding the Elam situation as it stands today. There were factors, no. 1 being his play up to now, that suggested the team may try to move him. There are other factors, his draft status being no. 1, that suggested the team is nowhere close to giving up on him, especially when his trade value right now is pretty much bottomed out.

 

28 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

not sure how you pulled the bold from what I said, I didn’t imply that at all.

 

And Elam being inactive so many weeks =/= “he was on the market.” There are other, valid reasons for landing on the inactive list. His level of play/practice habits being the most obvious. That doesn’t mean they are willing or eager to trade him at this stage. Again, similar to the OP, you’re stating your assumptions as fact. 

"We don't want folks trying to trade for him because he's so bad his value is basically zero" is pretty much implied from the bolded. Which is just not how NFL teams operate.

 

Elam being inactive so many weeks ABSOLUTELY means he is on the market. You know who isn't on the market?  Josh Allen. Dion Dawkins. Terell Bernard. Guys who play and have value to their team RIGHT NOW. Everyone else is on the market.

 

If a GM calls Beane and says "hey we're interested in Elam, want to make a deal?," do you think Beane is saying "No thanks, he has tremendous value to us on the healthy scratch list every week, I don't even want to hear your offer."

 

OF COURSE NOT. THAT'S INSANE.

 

Every GM in the NFL knows the deal with Elam. He is not a roster untouchable. Some probably tried to buy so low that Beane decided it wasn't worth the cap hit to get a conditional 7th or whatever garbage was offered. However, that doesn't mean he wasn't on the market.

 

If Brandon Beane was offered a day 2 pick for Elam today, do you think Elam is still a Bill?  I don't. And if you think yes, then I would say Beane is wrong in that scenario.

[Bad Things]

There's been a couple posts that suggested Elam has a poor work ethic.

 

I'd be interested to see any sources/stories about this. 

Cheers

[Aussie Joe]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

They couldn't trade him now because his signing bonus would have eaten any remaining cap space. His dead cap hit was $11M. Even next year will be hard to move him as he will have a dead cap hit of over $8M.  He's probably on the team through 2024.

I wonder if they try to move him to nickel with a possibility he replaces Taron in 2025. 

You don’t want to keep paying Taron $8m per year ?

 

Im gunna guess not ….

 

Actually ..he has been below average he past couple of weeks

[Special K]

McD's plans for Elam:

 

[Doc Brown]

I hope he sent Douglas his playbook for the plane.

[JoPoy88]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

"We don't want folks trying to trade for him because he's so bad his value is basically zero" is pretty much implied from the bolded. Which is just not how NFL teams operate.

 

Elam being inactive so many weeks ABSOLUTELY means he is on the market. You know who isn't on the market?  Josh Allen. Dion Dawkins. Terell Bernard. Guys who play and have value to their team RIGHT NOW. Everyone else is on the market.

 

If a GM calls Beane and says "hey we're interested in Elam, want to make a deal?," do you think Beane is saying "No thanks, he has tremendous value to us on the healthy scratch list every week, I don't even want to hear your offer."

 

OF COURSE NOT. THAT'S INSANE.

 

Every GM in the NFL knows the deal with Elam. He is not a roster untouchable. Some probably tried to buy so low that Beane decided it wasn't worth the cap hit to get a conditional 7th or whatever garbage was offered. However, that doesn't mean he wasn't on the market.

 

If Brandon Beane was offered a day 2 pick for Elam today, do you think Elam is still a Bill?  I don't. And if you think yes, then I would say Beane is wrong in that scenario.

You have no idea how NFL teams operate. The statement that his current trade value is low is matter-of-fact. It was not implied that it is prohibitive to a trade if Beane really wanted to move him and was motivated to do so today, which he didn’t. It’s simply a possible factor that might weigh into the decision.

 

Seriously, the percentage of what random fans *think* they know for certain about team decision-making, when they don’t know squat, to what they can actually state with accuracy is probably something like 95%-5%. Around this place it’s probably closer to 99%-1%. 

Even the so-called experts and “pro” rumor mongers on social media, with presumed actual contacts around the league, don’t bat anywhere close to 1.000. 
 

But yeah let’s also listen to Mr. FireChans here and they’ll lecture us on “how the league works.” Pfff.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

You have no idea how NFL teams operate. The statement that his current trade value is low is matter-of-fact. It was not implied that it is prohibitive to a trade if Beane really wanted to move him and was motivated to do so today, which he didn’t. It’s simply a possible factor that might weigh into the decision.

 

Seriously, the percentage of what random fans *think* they know for certain about team decision-making, when they don’t know squat, to what they can actually state with accuracy is probably something like 95%-5%. Around this place it’s probably closer to 99%-1%. 

Even the so-called experts and “pro” rumor mongers on social media, with presumed actual contacts around the league, don’t bat anywhere close to 1.000. 
 

But yeah let’s also listen to Mr. FireChans here and they’ll lecture us on “how the league works.” Pfff.

Whatever you say lmao.

 

The only players on the market were the ones traded today I guess lol.  A nice fishbowl worldview.

 

I noticed you dodged the question on if Elam is a Bill today if Beane was offered a day 2 pick. Probably because you know the answer.

[JoPoy88]

Just now, FireChans said:

Whatever you say lmao.

 

The only players on the market were the ones traded today I guess lol.  A nice fishbowl worldview.

 

I noticed you dodged the question on if Elam is a Bill today if Beane was offered a day 2 pick. Probably because you know the answer.

I’m not dodging anything. I don’t know the answer, for certain. That’s the difference here - you think you know things you don’t, for certain.

 

If your strawman is “does the desire to move player X increase if the compensation goes up” then yeah sure. agreed. Quite an insight.

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, jkeerie said:

And we know this for sure, how????

 

Psychic Friends Network.

[Dr.Sack]

The attrition rate of 1st round picks looks like the following. I think Elam eventually gets PT either on Bills or elsewhere.

 

2010 only 4/32 playing in 2023

2011 7/32

2012 7/32

2013 4/32

2014 12/32

2015 19/32

2016 20/31

2017 25/32

2018 29/32

2019 30/32 *1 death

2020 28/33 *1 prison

2021 32/32

2022 32/32 * Elam doesn’t play

 

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, skibum said:

To all the folks who suggest he be traded - Traded for what??? He's a first round pick who can't get on the field, even when injuries strike. Who is press-boxed in favor of off-the-couch Josh freaking Norman! Who forced his GM to cough up a 3rd rounder to bring in yet another vet at the deadline!

 

How do you wash that kind of stink off? I think they're stuck with him. Either the light bulb goes on, or they cut him in the off-season. Maybe they try to stash him on the practice squad, but it seems like they think he can't play pro ball at all. 

 

If they cut him and put him on PS then the 5th year option goes away and it eliminates part of his value.

 

Elam has been inactive for 8 regular season games.

Physically he has the ability to play but he does not seem to be able to transition yet to being a zone QB.

He has played some special teams but there are players who are better than him.

He has had 0-8 tackles per game on defense (tackling very important for Bills DBs) and four games where he has been credited with a pass defended.

He also has had 2 games in 2022 with an interception plus an interception in Miami playoff game.

He had 3 penalties in 2022 (2 for Defensive Holding and 1 for Defensive Pass Interference).  One Defensive Pass Interference in 2023.

 

 

I do not think Bills have given up on him but with number of injuries they cannot afford him to learn on the job,

 

[FireChans]

53 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

I’m not dodging anything. I don’t know the answer, for certain. That’s the difference here - you think you know things you don’t, for certain.

 

If your strawman is “does the desire to move player X increase if the compensation goes up” then yeah sure. agreed. Quite an insight.

It’s not a strawman. 
 

You can’t hold two contrary opinions. Elam can’t be “not on the market” and also “available for the right price.”  Lol

[Freddie's Dead]

Buy a Consonant be pushin' up daisies in Buffalo:

 

 

[Airseven]

Elam is Beane’s albatross. Bills can’t put him on the field and no other team made offers.

[John from Riverside]

I think he gets dealt in the off-season

[MJS]

Look, everyone just spun their own narratives about Elam. Nobody knows anything for sure.

 

Elam is a young player on a rookie deal. We'll see what happens. If he comes to work and turns things around this year, or even next year, nobody will care that he was inactive for a few games in 2023.

[davefan66]

How do we know he was actively being shopped?  We don’t.

 

There are NFL players who have rode the bench and ended up being good players.  Dude has skills and was a first round pick on is on his rookie deal.  He will continue to be given the chance to play.  My guess at least next year, if he can’t get on the field, I’d expect him to be gone by next trade deadline.

[TAinLack.]

12 hours ago, JMM said:

Obviously the Bills tried to trade him. Possibly they never got a good offer, but it's just as likely no other team was really interested. Which again confirms to me my opinion, which is that the issues with him go well beyond physical and his " fit" in our scheme. So now what? Inactive the rest of the year? Try to give him one more chance? Most likely he gets traded again after the season.

back up for Billy Buffalo!

[John from Riverside]

I think we have ruined him and should’ve traded him

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

12 hours ago, JMM said:

Hmm, let's see I posted an OPINION, on a message board. How OUTRAGEOUS! I mean if we dont speak on known 100% facts, then possibly the internet police should come for me. Shudder...Now let's see, local pundits that cover the team for a living stated this was likely. National pundits also suggested it, many on this board did as well. But hey , what do they know? Good enough? Remember though

, from now on, nobody on this OPINION board is allowed to state ONE, they can only comment on KNOWN FACT.  Assumption is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Right?

This whole discussion probably could have been avoided had you refrained from using the word OBVIOUSLY 😂

[JMM]

10 hours ago, warrior9 said:

Never said you couldn't post an opinion.... Did your wife / girlfriend / little sister write this for you ? 

 

 

Aww what a clever lil response.  You truly are a " warrior".  A keyboard one. Now how shall I respond to your question? Hmm, let me try to place myself back in the mindset of a boy in 6th grade...nope. Ya got me " warrior". 🤣🤣 Well you enjoy your bliss.

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I hope he sent Douglas his playbook for the plane.

But did it have $100 bill taped to the last page

[Mr. WEO]

well....more Elam threads, obvs!!!

[JMM]

43 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

This whole discussion probably could have been avoided had you refrained from using the word OBVIOUSLY 😂

That's OBVIOUS now. 😆 Yup for now on , for the more concrete members, you need to preface every post with IN MY OPINION, otherwise the "truth" squad hits you and hard!  " He made a assumption! Let's get em! " 😄 

[Haslett_Stomp]

1 minute ago, JMM said:

That's OBVIOUS now. 😆 Yup for now on , for the more concrete members, you need to preface every post with IN MY OPINION, otherwise the "truth" squad hits you and hard!  " He made a assumption! Let's get em! " 😄 

 

"Hear me out" always works well...

[DrDawkinstein]

Much like the improvements we've seen in Rousseau and AJE since Von's arrival, I'm hoping Douglas's skills and leadership rub off on Elam. Could be exactly what the kid needs in the CB room.

 

I also disagree we "obviously" tried to trade him. Nothing indicates that.

[warrior9]

42 minutes ago, JMM said:

Aww what a clever lil response.  You truly are a " warrior".  A keyboard one. Now how shall I respond to your question? Hmm, let me try to place myself back in the mindset of a boy in 6th grade...nope. Ya got me " warrior". 🤣🤣 Well you enjoy your bliss.

Good one, good one. 

[Mango]

10 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

You don’t want to keep paying Taron $8m per year ?

 

Im gunna guess not ….

 

Actually ..he has been below average he past couple of weeks

 

Taron Johnson is actually likely a good candidate for an extension this offseason. His deal, like many, is backloaded. His cap number is $12.5M next year, which is way too high. 

 

I suspect we see the team cut Hines and Morse then extend Allen, Douglas Johnson. All 5 of those should free up about $25M +/-. I think Tre is a heavy cut candidate this offseason. And that really really hurts me to say, but it frees up another $6M. If the team can, I think they keep him, but we need to free a total of $41M right now. 
 

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Much like the improvements we've seen in Rousseau and AJE since Von's arrival, I'm hoping Douglas's skills and leadership rub off on Elam. Could be exactly what the kid needs in the CB room.

 

I also disagree we "obviously" tried to trade him. Nothing indicates that.

 

 

Yeah they seem to be in a position where some teams cut bait so I understand why people tried to connect the dots but the dead cap hit alone if they dealt Elam made it difficult.    Most of their veteran contracts are already backloaded so they weren't going to find relief moving a vet.

 

The only thing I thought might happen is a player for player deal for someone else's struggling young player with promise(like Jameson Williams or Terrace Marshall).    

[Maine-iac]

I'd have more hope for Elam if it seemed he just wasn't getting the scheme and was still learning the defense.  None of that should make it so he can't tackle guys in the open field and that is why he was pulled when he did get to play.

[Big Turk]

This is interesting...Elam has been a VERY good zone CB when he has played and a bad man CB for the Bills. Which makes it all the more confusing. This goes along with the one breakdown on his film by a NFL film breakdown person who asked early last year if Elam was a zone CB because he looked so natural and was playing coverages perfectly...don't understand how he can't see the field when he excels at what the Bills play predominantly.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Big Turk

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

This is interesting...Elam has been a VERY good zone CB when he has played and a bad man CB for the Bills. Which makes it all the more confusing.

 

 

 

 

Elam is easily the most confusing player I've seen in recent memory.

 

He was bad against Jax, but I would hope the Bills could admit that they set him up for a failure with being inactive all year and then starting him, under those circumstances, against the Jags in London.  

 

Outside of that game, he's been just as good.. if not better, than Dane Jackson. 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

Elam is easily the most confusing player I've seen in recent memory.

 

He was bad against Jax, but I would hope the Bills could admit that they set him up for a failure with being inactive all year and then starting him, under those circumstances, against the Jags in London.  

 

Outside of that game, he's been just as good.. if not better, than Dane Jackson. 

 

And they kept having him play man, which he has not been good at in the NFL instead of zone which is the preferred defense McD plays which he is very good at.  I don't get it...were they hoping he would be like Tre and they would be able to use him to play man more and free up coverage options in other places?

[Jauronimo]

Super Bowl MVP

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 hours ago, davefan66 said:

How do we know he was actively being shopped?  We don’t.

 

There are NFL players who have rode the bench and ended up being good players.  Dude has skills and was a first round pick on is on his rookie deal.  He will continue to be given the chance to play.  My guess at least next year, if he can’t get on the field, I’d expect him to be gone by next trade deadline.

 

They really have their hands tied, his contract is guaranteed and theres 2 full years left.  Trading him next year gets you out of guaranteed base, and you have less of a bonus burden you can spread.  Jackson (UFA) gets replaced on the roster next year by douglas, white is back (depending on the draft direction he could be a cap casualty), you have benford, and then Elam. 

 

I would suspect one of the late picks at least is used on a corner to either push elam off the roster, or at least potentially find a project who projects as a better fit in what we do.  Elam likely gets every chance to make an impact and the team in that scenario, and if he doesn't they can try and trade him.  His contract next season would be 2yr 4.5M for the acquiring team.  This is pretty much the going rate for a depth corner, and he offers more portential and long-term upside than a 30 year old ronald darby for example (darby got 1yr 1.7M this past year).  We wouldn't see much here other than a pick swap in a trade as his value is cratered though.  

54 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

And they kept having him play man, which he has not been good at in the NFL instead of zone which is the preferred defense McD plays which he is very good at.  I don't get it...were they hoping he would be like Tre and they would be able to use him to play man more and free up coverage options in other places?

 

We man-match quite a bit though, and we were trying to create some pressure and muddy the reads.  Bail coverage is fine, but he was giving up a ton of space and not closing.  He seems to lack confidence at the moment - he was playing really safe.