Was Elam ok or could the Giants just not take advantage of him?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Collinsworthless made a point to say the Giants were picking on him as the weak link so I'm sure you'll see that repeated here today some.

 

In reality he gave up a couple plays and he made a couple plays. He looked very much like a CB that is young and hasn't seen much playtime. 

 

The coverage on the deep ball was very good...but the play he made that stuck out to me was very late in the game. On the last drive Taylor completed a pass to the right side. He made an excellent tackle that prevented the WR from getting out of bounds and stopping the clock. Thought that showed some real good awareness. 

Can’t help but wonder if both next years safeties are the CBs who started last night. 
 

Elam at FS Benford at SS

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Can’t help but wonder if both next years safeties are the CBs who started last night. 
 

Elam at FS Benford at SS

Elam doesn't tackle strong enough to be a safety .. he isn't built like it either 

 

He's a twig

 

If Poyer and Hyde retire at seasons end I can see Rapp SS and cam Lewis at FS

 

Benford is basically our best corner right now so you can't move him to safety

Edited October 16, 2023 by Buffalo716

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Elam doesn't tackle strong enough to be a safety .. he isn't built like it either 

 

He's a twig

He’s the same size as Hyde and Poyer. 
 

He missed 4 tackles all last year (8%) and only 1 this year (6%). 

I don’t recall him ever being a poor tackler. 

[Buffalo716]

29 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He’s the same size as Hyde and Poyer. 
 

He missed 4 tackles all last year (8%) and only 1 this year (6%). 

I don’t recall him ever being a poor tackler. 

The NFL could list people at whatever size they want at the end of the day

 

When poyer and Elam stand next to each other they do not look the same size to me... Poyer looks thicker

 

That's like people saying that Milano is still 223... He's listed the same size when he came into the league and he is much bigger if you just look at him

 

Poyer looks bigger than Elam to my eye

 

Elam is very lean so he probably does hold some weight ... He just looks like a cornerback to me with his build and skill set and speed 

 

Even Micah isn't a big safety but he is a sure tackler... and One of the best in the world in zone

 

The amount of ground we ask our safeties to cover in zone is a lot

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Chaos]

Lets just say Tyrod Taylor to "any Giants receiver" is not the same as Trevor Lawrence to Calvin Ridley

[EasternOHBillsFan]

7 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Elam played good last night imo. 

 

We must have watched a different game then... we can't have him out there when we are playing against GOOD teams with GOOD QBs and GOOD receivers... not just GREAT ones, but not even against GOOD ones. 

[billsfan_34]

15 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

We must have watched a different game then... we can't have him out there when we are playing against GOOD teams with GOOD QBs and GOOD receivers... not just GREAT ones, but not even against GOOD ones. 

I said good last night. Not sold on him, but it would be nice if he gets better every week. Im not here to argue - Go Bills

[EasternOHBillsFan]

30 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

I said good last night. Not sold on him, but it would be nice if he gets better every week. Im not here to argue - Go Bills

GO BILLS!

[The Jokeman]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:57 AM, KDIGGZ said:

Quick, name the receivers on the Giants besides Waller. The Giants probably have the worst receivers in the league 

I'm not sure KC's WRs are pretty bad as are the Jets. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm not sure KC's WRs are pretty bad as are the Jets. 

 

It's the story that the pundits aren't talking about... KC not replacing their WRs with players Mahomes can count on is a real weakness for them. Be on the lookout for that Rashee Rice though, he looks to be getting it and may supplant Toney. Skyy Moore looks like a bust TBH....

[BananaB]

Taron had a solid game, other than that I don’t think any dbs played great.   Didn’t think any of them were challenged much and when they were they came up short. Hyde and Poyer keep looking like they lost it. More Poyer then Hyde

[DJB]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:57 AM, KDIGGZ said:

Quick, name the receivers on the Giants besides Waller. The Giants probably have the worst receivers in the league 

Patriots say hello but yes Giants have brutal WR’s for sure . Bottom 3 in NFL

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

It's the story that the pundits aren't talking about... KC not replacing their WRs with players Mahomes can count on is a real weakness for them. Be on the lookout for that Rashee Rice though, he looks to be getting it and may supplant Toney. Skyy Moore looks like a bust TBH....

I agree Rice looks impressive.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

According to Joe Marino, Elam looked ok. 

[Simon]

23 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He’s the same size as Hyde and Poyer. 
 

He missed 4 tackles all last year (8%) and only 1 this year (6%). 

I don’t recall him ever being a poor tackler. 

 

It was a knock on him by some random draft site coming out of college but if you looked at film it was totally inaccurate, imo.

Myths have a way of hanging around I guess.

[JohnNord]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:44 AM, GreggTX said:

Elam drew a pass interference penalty early on, but I hardly noticed him after thar, though I did see him on the field several times. Is he starting to turn it around or were the Giants just inept?

He was beaten down the field by Slayton on man-to-man coverage.  It was fairly high profile.  He also got called for the PI.

 

Other than that, I think he did ok.  He was t a train wreck and not a player constantly targeted as he was last week 

[HoofHearted]

Elam actually played a really good game. Got beat on the slot fade in Cover 1. Didn't look good playing press man at all. Lost at the LoS in true press every single time except for once iirc because of dead feet, lunging, and/or either jamming with two hands or trying to use the wrong hand. Played almost exclusively man or MOD. Looked most comfortable press bailing. I think he had a handful (6-7) snaps of Cover 2 and maybe 3 or 4 snaps of Quarters and looked really good in both. He was fantastic in run support.

 

@GreggTX

Edited October 18, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Gugny]

The fact that the Giants didn’t throw Elam’s way all game long shows how much of an idiot Daboll is. 

[BobbyC81]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:49 AM, Success said:

I was happy to see that he was step for step w/ the receiver on one of the long pass attempts they had near the end.  Like you said, I didn't notice him otherwise, which is probably good.

 

He was step for step with a lot of receivers as they caught the ball in front of him.

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

 

It was a knock on him by some random draft site coming out of college but if you looked at film it was totally inaccurate, imo.

Myths have a way of hanging around I guess.

Every single corner has film of them making tackles 

 

And I think every scouting report from lance zeirlein to Walter football to pro football Network to draft wire remarks about his inconsistencies in tackling 

 

It wasn't about his ability to ... It was about his want , play in and play out 

 

He could lay the wood .... But then not wrap up next time ... Inconsistencies in his physical game is the difference between a sure tackler and a ok one 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[John from Riverside]

Looks like they in Jackson is going to be back so people that are highly critiquing. Elam can calm down a little bit.
 

As a third corner, he’s fine he’s just not living up to his draft potential

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Looks like they in Jackson is going to be back so people that are highly critiquing. Elam can calm down a little bit.
 

As a third corner, he’s fine he’s just not living up to his draft potential

He's on a leodis mccelvin trajectory minus return abilities 

 

Leodis really struggled as a corner for 3-4 years... Some good games with some flashes followed by stinkers... Getting targeted

 

Then leodis did this weird flip flop... He lost his big time return ability by year 6... 

 

But became a sticky cornerback with ball skills... By year 6 he was the sticky man corner the bills thought they were drafting 11th overall or 9th or whatever 

 

Became more adept in zone and you had to be careful throwing at him... It just took 6 years

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

He's on a leodis mccelvin trajectory minus return abilities 

 

Leodis really struggled as a corner for 3-4 years... Some good games with some flashes followed by stinkers... Getting targeted

 

Then leodis did this weird flip flop... He lost his big time return ability... Started coughing up punts more

 

But became a sticky cornerback with ball skills... By year 6 he was the sticky man corner the bills thought they were drafting 11th overall or 9th or whatever 

 

Became more adept in zone and you had to be careful throwing at him... It just took 6 years

So the problem with all of that is where if it’s free agency time
 

Do the bills trade him?

Do the bills squirrel him down to a realistic contractor? I was playing and resign him

 

Does he leave in free agency?

 

At the moment my question is, is he better than a JaMarcus Ingram type player?

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So the problem with all of that is where if it’s free agency time
 

Do the bills trade him?

Do the bills squirrel him down to a realistic contractor? I was playing and resign him

 

Does he leave in free agency?

 

At the moment my question is, is he better than a JaMarcus Ingram type player?

I do have a soft spot for my University at Buffalo players.. I'm always here to talk up my boy cam

 

But unless he's lost all of his confidence.. he's better than Ingram

 

 

[Ayjent]

11 hours ago, Simon said:

 

It was a knock on him by some random draft site coming out of college but if you looked at film it was totally inaccurate, imo.

Myths have a way of hanging around I guess.

I watched every game at Florida with Elam. He earned that scouting report, and everything that was scouted as weaknesses haven’t been shored up with coaching which is why he was inactive to start the first several games this season.  I want him to be awesome but I never understood the hype of him being a 1st rounder.  I thought he was way overvalued bc of his deficiencies. He loses coverage easily on double moves and did at Florida too.  He was a tentative tackler, and easily blocked. He played one incredible game against Alabama and I think that had everyone convinced he was a top flight prospect, but even in that game his tackling or lack thereof cost the Gators to give up a TD. 
 

Unless you have Deion Sanders or Revis level coverage abilities you better be able to tackle and fight through blocks to funnel ball carriers back inside. I will say that he has improved his tackling and willingness, but his coverage has been disappointing even in man to man situations as compared to even last year. This is his chance and we can only hope that he flips the switch and starts picking up his play, otherwise I think he is unlikely to finish his rookie K with the Bills.  McDermott and Beane have been so good in picking CBs, but this one will always be a head scratcher. 

[Big Turk]

Neither was great but neither was terrible.  

[BigDingus]

I haven't had much confidence in Elam since early last year, but the fact I barely noticed him last game is a good sign. 

 

Even though he was up against captain checkdown, he still did well enough.

 

If anything, the tackle numbers prove it. He had only 3 tackles this week vs having 11 tackles against the Jags (who definitely went after him). So credit to him, just hope to see steady improvement going forward. 

[Simon]

5 hours ago, Ayjent said:

I watched every game at Florida with Elam. He earned that scouting report, and everything that was scouted as weaknesses haven’t been shored up with coaching which is why he was inactive to start the first several games this season.  I want him to be awesome but I never understood the hype of him being a 1st rounder.  I thought he was way overvalued bc of his deficiencies. He loses coverage easily on double moves and did at Florida too.  He was a tentative tackler, and easily blocked. He played one incredible game against Alabama and I think that had everyone convinced he was a top flight prospect, but even in that game his tackling or lack thereof cost the Gators to give up a TD. 
 

Unless you have Deion Sanders or Revis level coverage abilities you better be able to tackle and fight through blocks to funnel ball carriers back inside. I will say that he has improved his tackling and willingness, but his coverage has been disappointing even in man to man situations as compared to even last year. This is his chance and we can only hope that he flips the switch and starts picking up his play, otherwise I think he is unlikely to finish his rookie K with the Bills.  McDermott and Beane have been so good in picking CBs, but this one will always be a head scratcher. 

 

'Preciate the input.

I watched whatever film I could find right after the Bills drafted him and I could not find a single instance of him shying away from contact or being a tentative tackler. He wasn't Antoine Winfield by any means but from what I saw he was willing to put his face in the fan any time the situation called for it. The only real knock I had on him was his propensity to play too much with his hands and not enough with his feet.

That being said, it was just film clips as opposed to watching him every week and knowing what you're seeing, which I get the sense that you clearly do.

I didn't give much credence to the draftniks who seemed to be looking for nits to pick, but fwiw, I have a little more faith in your eyes so I'll buy what you're selling.

I'm glad he has become a more physically aggressive as a pro but am still concerned with his habit of relying too much on his hands; if he can focus more on keeping his feet moving through routes, I think/hope he'll be OK eventually.

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Neither was great but neither was terrible.  

That’s an 80%+ allowed catch rate on targeted passes for both DB’s.

[Big Turk]

Just now, Einstein said:

That’s an 80%+ allowed catch rate on targeted passes for both DB’s.

 

No TDs and only 1 big play.  Not the best, but not terrible either.

[gobills404]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:57 AM, KDIGGZ said:

Quick, name the receivers on the Giants besides Waller. The Giants probably have the worst receivers in the league 

Good point. We don’t know who they are because they didn’t make any plays on Sunday.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

No TDs and only 1 big play.  Not the best, but not terrible either.

 

Another positive I could point out is if you watch the All-22, Elam was extremely active with communication while in zone. Intentional communication. He was constantly pointing/indicating to his teammates mid play about (what I assume to be) ownership of coverage areas.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

That’s an 80%+ allowed catch rate on targeted passes for both DB’s.

 

With our only island CB out for the year, McDermott has reverted his scheme to "keep everything in front of you, if you give up a catch make sure it doesn't become a big play." It isn't ideal but it's the best we can do with this group of CBs. It's like Elam versus Pickens last year, yeah Pittsburgh moved the ball at will at times but they ended with 3 points. That's going to be our gameplan for the rest of the year. Our front 7 players will have to step up and make those game changing plays.

[Beck Water]

On 10/16/2023 at 9:57 AM, KDIGGZ said:

Quick, name the receivers on the Giants besides Waller. The Giants probably have the worst receivers in the league 

 

Darius Slayton, Wan'dale Robinson, and Parris Campbell.  It's hard to catch stuff that's not thrown to ya. 

 

Oh, yeah, and Hodgins.

 

I wanted the Bills to sign Parris Campbell in FA.  In retrospect, I was wrong.

[MJS]

He gave up one pass and had one penalty.

 

Anyone saying he played badly are just not being fair or objective. He played fine.

 

Unfortunately, some fans are hyper focused on him, so if he makes a single mistake, draws a single flag, allows a single completion, etc. fans will throw him under the bus.

 

All the problems are on offense, and they are 90% execution problems (AKA: players not doing their jobs). Dropped passes, fumbles, incorrect reads by Allen, slightly bad passes, etc. The plays are there to be made and the players are not making them. Some of that is on Allen, some on the receivers, some on the running backs. They need to make those plays.

On 10/16/2023 at 9:56 AM, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I see Elam getting bashed today on social media.  He didn’t stick out to me as playing poorly.  

Hive mind and bias.

[Sierra Foothills]

14 hours ago, Einstein said:

That’s an 80%+ allowed catch rate on targeted passes for both DB’s.

 

Quit showing off Einstein.

 

[GunnerBill]

Watched the All22 yesterday. There were some ups and downs, sure. But overall he played fine. Nothing like the reaction in the first half of this thread and much better than he played v JAX.

[GETTOTHE50]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:21 AM, PayDaBill$ said:

Looks to me like a young inexperienced player with ability that needs more time to develop.  

I don’t see nor have I heard of an attitude or effort problem. It looks like he plays every play as if it was his last. Some players take more time to find their way in the NFL and I’m not willing to give up on him or call him busy just yet. 
 

I think we owe him this year and training camp next year. I’ll stop defending him if he’s inactive week one next year. 

[Sierra Foothills]

From Wednesday's Buffalo News:

 

"Besides Josh Allen (shoulder), other players who were limited were: Kaiir Elam (ankle), Dane Jackson (foot), Cam Lewis (shoulder) and Greg Rousseau (foot). McDermott said Elam re-aggravated an ankle injury that he sustained in training camp."

 

 

[Charles Romes]

Any reports on his play v the Pats? Snap count?

 

well I found it, zero snaps.  Was hoping not hearing his name was a good sign. Benford and Dane 100 percent 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Charles Romes