The Official Fire Ken Dorsey Thread

[Beast]

Just now, kkim0904 said:

3rd and few inch to goal line.  AGAIN, SHOTGUN HAND OFF, LOSE 3 YARDS.

There is no excuse for that. None.

 

McDermott needs to be asked if he is going to have a talk with Dorsey regarding ***** like that.  
 

Friggin fans know enough what to run there. Even if it’s to the running back, line up under center!

[Comebackkid]

I'll say one thing....this dude is persistant with dumb decisions.   Then when he finally stumbles on stuff that works he cant stick with it.

some things that are so blatantly obvious and he just fights it tooth and nail.   

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Bills have left too many points on the field because of how stupid Dorsey has been with play calling at times.  While he’s finally doing the obvious elsewhere, he still is blowing points with bad decisions.  

For example? 

[Franco_92]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

There is no excuse for that. None.

 

McDermott needs to be asked if he is going to have a talk with Dorsey regarding ***** like that.  
 

Friggin fans know enough what to run there. Even if it’s to the running back, line up under center!

We have scored more TDs handing off from shotgun at the 1 than under center at the 1 this year, and historical data shows that the shotgun runs are more successful. an under center run is actually the least successful run you can do at the 1 or closer, behind: 

1.) QB draw from gun
2.) QB sneak
3.) shotgun handoff
4.) handoff from under center

[buffblue]

17 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Yea, I really enjoyed how we scored zero points the final 25 minutes of the game and punted 4 straight drives. 

 

I also loved how we couldn’t get a first down the end the game, and imploded on 3rd and goal from the 6 inch line.

Another point of interest, 2/3 TD plays were improvised by Allen, and not the called play.

Couldn't agree more

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

We have scored more TDs handing off from shotgun at the 1 than under center at the 1 this year, and historical data shows that the shotgun runs are more successful. an under center run is actually the least successful run you can do at the 1 or closer, behind: 

1.) QB draw from gun
2.) QB sneak
3.) shotgun handoff
4.) handoff from under center

You have 2 chances, a 6’ 5” 250 pound QB, and the new push the QB play.

 

Line up Gilliam and Murray behind Allen, under center, and pound the damned ball.  Allen or Murray. Whatever. The shotgun was stupid.
 

 

[kkim0904]

6 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

We have scored more TDs handing off from shotgun at the 1 than under center at the 1 this year, and historical data shows that the shotgun runs are more successful. an under center run is actually the least successful run you can do at the 1 or closer, behind: 

1.) QB draw from gun
2.) QB sneak
3.) shotgun handoff
4.) handoff from under center

Josh under center, QB sneak for less than 1 yard to go is over 90% success rate.  I will take this anytime.

[Franco_92]

Just now, Beast said:

You have 2 chances, a 6’ 5” 250 pound QB, and the new push the QB play.

 

Line up Gilliam and Murray behind Allen, under center, and pound the damned ball.  Allen or Murray. Whatever. The shotgun was stupid.
 

 

I like pushing Allen too, but I'm not surprised if they're avoiding that when possible because he had to go back to the tent for his shoulder today. The point is, fans shriek when things don't work, even when they don't work but are in line with traditional rates and outcomes on the play. There is nothing inherently wrong with being in shotgun at the goal line, nothing. Teams score more when they are. That data has held true, decisively so, for decades. It spreads things out in the part of the field where the biggest asset defenders have is the compression it provides. Bills fans are insufferable, miserable losers even when their team wins, and the worst part is they don't actually know what they're talking about when they do it. 

[Beast]

2 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

I like pushing Allen too, but I'm not surprised if they're avoiding that when possible because he had to go back to the tent for his shoulder today. The point is, fans shriek when things don't work, even when they don't work but are in line with traditional rates and outcomes on the play. There is nothing inherently wrong with being in shotgun at the goal line, nothing. Teams score more when they are. That data has held true, decisively so, for decades. It spreads things out in the part of the field where the biggest asset defenders have is the compression it provides. Bills fans are insufferable, miserable losers even when their team wins, and the worst part is they don't actually know what they're talking about when they do it. 

They ran a sneak for 4 yards after that series.

 

And I’m not buying your decades of proof.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Beast

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, Franco_92 said:

I like pushing Allen too, but I'm not surprised if they're avoiding that when possible because he had to go back to the tent for his shoulder today. The point is, fans shriek when things don't work, even when they don't work but are in line with traditional rates and outcomes on the play. There is nothing inherently wrong with being in shotgun at the goal line, nothing. Teams score more when they are. That data has held true, decisively so, for decades. It spreads things out in the part of the field where the biggest asset defenders have is the compression it provides. Bills fans are insufferable, miserable losers even when their team wins, and the worst part is they don't actually know what they're talking about when they do it. 

He ran a sneak in the next series. 

[Green Lightning]

I'll be on Dorsey until he actually can close a game out and get a first down in crunch time. 3:00 left in the game, close it out. We can't do it. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Tonight just proved the Offense is better without Dorsey and his ideas.

 

Back to Josh running. Back to Josh freestyling. No TEs so no 12 personnel crap.

 

Dorsey only got in our way with his bull#### shotgun plays from 3rd and inches and 4th and inches at the goal line. Literally cost us points.

 

Just let Josh run the O.

[Alphadawg7]

54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

For example? 

The fact you have to ask that tells me you either didn’t watch the game or just are going out of your way for what ever reason to challenge or disagree with me no matter the comment as usual lol

 

No one in their right mind would have watched Dorsey once again on the goal line on 3rd down call a run out of the shotgun instead of a QB sneak and think he didn’t blow points.  
 

Once again we lost yards and had to go for it on fourth down.  And this time we didn’t convert and came away with 0 points.  The fact he did this again after not learning his lesson last time is unreal. 
 

Even the Bucs Coach knew they should have run the ball with Allen there and didn’t.  
 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Bangarang]

Dorsey was better but still kinda mediocre and so frustrating. Thought he called a solid first half for the most part. 
 

Running Murray out of the shotgun from the 1 is so maddening. Also, can we please stop the screens to Diggs? It’s literally a wasted play. 

Seems like his play sheet is very limited. 
 

Liked the tempo though. Our offense is much better playing fast. 
 

Lastly, keep throwing it to that Kincaid kid. He seems to catch the ball pretty well. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I hope Harty is not doomed to the Nyheim Hines role. 

 

He wasn't on offense all night. 

[What a Tuel]

16 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Dorsey was better but still kinda mediocre and so frustrating. Thought he called a solid first half for the most part. 
 

Running Murray out of the shotgun from the 1 is so maddening. Also, can we please stop the screens to Diggs? It’s literally a wasted play. 

Seems like his play sheet is very limited. 
 

Liked the tempo though. Our offense is much better playing fast. 
 

Lastly, keep throwing it to that Kincaid kid. He seems to catch the ball pretty well. 

 

Why do we do those screens to Diggs anyway? Isn't the focus going to be on him with extra coverage?

[HappyDays]

Again the offense is too streaky. We'll put together a few nice drives then disappear, or vice versa. Three weeks in a row now where we've gone like 20+ minutes of game time without putting any points on the board. A lot of situational play calls just don't make sense at times.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by HappyDays

[gobills404]

Kept hearing nonstop about “wahhh the offense keeps sucking until the 4th quarter” and now it’s “wahhh the offense started out great and then sucked”. Points are points. Wins are wins. Stop crying.

Edited October 27, 2023 by gobills404

[Simon]

36 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

I'll be on Dorsey until he actually can close a game out and get a first down in crunch time. 3:00 left in the game, close it out. We can't do it. 

 

Umm, we picked up a first down with about 2:20 left.

[BillsFan692]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Umm, we picked up a first down with about 2:20 left.

Also we play super conservative in that position which makes it difficult

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, gobills404 said:

Kept hearing nonstop about “wahhh the offense keeps sucking until the 4th quarter” and now it’s “wahhh the offense started out great and then sucked”.

 

Well this represents the same problem, just inverted. You can't go entire quarters or longer without putting together a single good drive in consecutive games.

 

I liked the general tempo and personnel usage of the offense tonight. But overall I did not like the play calling. And play calling has been a persistent issue this year.

[Doc Brown]

He seemed to take all the suggestions from the WGR callers this short week on how to fix the offense but forgot about the caller named Tim after the Giants game who said QB SNEAK IT EVERY TIME YOU'RE 3rd and goal or less from the 1/2 yard line.

[gobills404]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well this represents the same problem, just inverted. You can't go entire quarters or longer without putting together a single good drive in consecutive games.

 

I liked the general tempo and personnel usage of the offense tonight. But overall I did not like the play calling. And play calling has been a persistent issue this year.

The play calling was great. Then Josh started forcing it to Diggs again in the second half and the offense stalled out.

[Alphadawg7]

The run out of shotgun on the goal line almost cost us the game.  It took 7 points off the board in a game we almost lost on the final play of the game.  
 

It’s unbelievable he tried the same horrid play in the same situation again this week that didn’t work last time.  
 

It’s these dumb decisions that make it hard to have faith in him over the season and against tougher opponents.  I mean what happens when Knox is back?  Will he revert back or are we going to see less 12 personnel and keep guys like Shakir more involved?
 

I hope this game shows him the blue print of what makes the offense flow better and he builds on it.   

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Then Josh started forcing it to Diggs again in the second half

 

Allen throws to Diggs in obvious single man coverage situations every time. That read is built into the offense. I will credit Diggs with that one failed drive in the 2nd half but Dorsey was responsible for a lot more of the failed drives. We don't have YAC receivers or contested catch specialists and our OL is average so our margin for error is small. Dorsey can't be the reason that some of our drives stall out.

[Bookie Man]

Just go full time hurry up. Let Josh call all the plays. KD can be a clipboard guy.

[LABILLBACKER]

On Josh's only INT, I absolutely hated the call. No one chips the blitzer as the entire OL shifts left. So poorly designed like the shotgun draws that still fail.  I still can't stand Dorsey. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

26 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Why do we do those screens to Diggs anyway? Isn't the focus going to be on him with extra coverage?

The 3rd down play on the first drive could’ve been huge but it looked like the other receiver on  that side of the field missed his pick to free diggs up and the defender made a nice one on one tackle. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

On Josh's only INT, I absolutely hated the call. No one chips the blitzer as the entire OL shifts left. So poorly designed like the shotgun draws that still fail.  I still can't stand Dorsey. 

Fitz even talked about how poor of a play call that was during halftime 

[Bermuda Triangle]

22 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

The play calling was great. Then Josh started forcing it to Diggs again in the second half and the offense stalled out.

The offense sputtered once the tempo was slowed down.  Looked like the offense lost its rhythm

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

On Josh's only INT, I absolutely hated the call. No one chips the blitzer as the entire OL shifts left. So poorly designed like the shotgun draws that still fail.  I still can't stand Dorsey. 

I mean that’s kind of the point of a naked bootleg lol everything needs to look like it’s flowing left.  The pulling lineman on a normal bootleg play kind of tips your hand so it’s a pretty common staple to run them naked. 

Defender made a nice play clogging up the throwing lane and some plays you just have to cut your losses 

[LyndonvilleBill]

How about a little I formation w/Gilliam and Murray from inside the 5 or some jet sweeps? Jeepers,  Gilliam is what 240? Why have a "FB" and not at least use him once in a while inside the 5? Try a couple jet sweeps throughout the game to at leat give them something to think about when we get there.🤷‍♂️

[VaMilBill]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Fitz even talked about how poor of a play call that was during halftime 

Yeah. Naked bootlegs work well when it’s anyone but josh or Mahomes or Lamar. Those guys can easily run it themselves if no one keys on them. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

How about a little I formation w/Gilliam and Murray from inside the 5 or some jet sweeps? Jeepers,  Gilliam is what 240? Why have a "FB" and not at least use him once in a while inside the 5? Try a couple jet sweeps throughout the game to at leat give them something to think about when we get there.🤷‍♂️

Because, that would take  common sense

[Hotdog water]

It’s crystal clear that there needs to be a significant overhaul of the coaching staff. We can’t continue to make boneheaded Junior Varsity level coaching decisions. McDermott and Dorsey are at the top of this list. The 3rd and 2 shotgun draw is absolute insanity.

[LyndonvilleBill]

17 minutes ago, Hotdog water said:

It’s crystal clear that there needs to be a significant overhaul of the coaching staff. We can’t continue to make boneheaded Junior Varsity level coaching decisions. McDermott and Dorsey are at the top of this list. The 3rd and 2 shotgun draw is absolute insanity.

I may be one of the few, but I like what McD is doing on D. A little more aggressive,  but not over the top and considering who is out for injuries I think he is doing pretty darn good. Perfect,  no, but pretty good. I think he is pretty hands off on O and let's Dorsey handle that side. That's where I think change needs to happen. Dorsey has his moments,  but was the wrong choice for OC. Some of his play calls boggles the mind. I think they'll get a new DC this offseason to allow McD to get back to being a HC and I wouldn't be shocked (one could hope) if a change is made at OC.🙏

[JaCrispy]

28 minutes ago, Hotdog water said:

It’s crystal clear that there needs to be a significant overhaul of the coaching staff. We can’t continue to make boneheaded Junior Varsity level coaching decisions. McDermott and Dorsey are at the top of this list. The 3rd and 2 shotgun draw is absolute insanity.

I hated that play on Tecmo Super Bowl as well…I would always substitute it  out for something else…👍

[Hotdog water]

6 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I may be one of the few, but I like what McD is doing on D. A little more aggressive,  but not over the top and considering who is out for injuries I think he is doing pretty darn good. Perfect,  no, but pretty good. I think he is pretty hands off on O and let's Dorsey handle that side. That's where I think change needs to happen. Dorsey has his moments,  but was the wrong choice for OC. Some of his play calls boggles the mind. I think they'll get a new DC this offseason to allow McD to get back to being a HC and I wouldn't be shocked (one could hope) if a change is made at OC.🙏

The reason I include McDermott in this is because he is the leader of this team. As the head coach you are responsible for all of your subordinates. If you can’t get offense to change his philosophy then you are part of the problem. It’s a leadership issue. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

9 minutes ago, Hotdog water said:

The reason I include McDermott in this is because he is the leader of this team. As the head coach you are responsible for all of your subordinates. If you can’t get offense to change his philosophy then you are part of the problem. It’s a leadership issue. 

True, but as a leader,  you're only as good as the people underneath you. Make a change when you can at OC, and I think things get much better. It's sounds like Dorsey is still using old playbooks. Maybe he should call Daboll to get the translations correct. 😁

[VaMilBill]

1 hour ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I may be one of the few, but I like what McD is doing on D. A little more aggressive,  but not over the top and considering who is out for injuries I think he is doing pretty darn good. Perfect,  no, but pretty good. I think he is pretty hands off on O and let's Dorsey handle that side. That's where I think change needs to happen. Dorsey has his moments,  but was the wrong choice for OC. Some of his play calls boggles the mind. I think they'll get a new DC this offseason to allow McD to get back to being a HC and I wouldn't be shocked (one could hope) if a change is made at OC.🙏

I think if you look under a microscope the d is performing good enough to win games. 
 

but as a HC, McD is placing far too much trust in this battered defensive unit to get stops when it has proven time and again this season that it cannot get off the field. He needs to start being more aggressive on offensive and let that unit close games instead of trusting the defense. 
 

in short, as a DC, McD is doing fine. As HC, I think he has done a pretty lousy job this year