2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

I think he’s saying if Kelly and his merry men of cocaine sniffers actually took their jobs seriously, we would have a Lombardi by now. 

Oh that’s reasonable. I thought he was trying to say the 90s team partied and was successful, and I was gonna annihilate him.

[RichRiderBills]

I'm cool with no mvp for Josh. He had a great year but not his best.

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh that’s reasonable. I thought he was trying to say the 90s team partied and was successful, and I was gonna annihilate him.

The only thing that 90s team was annihilating was lines of coke off strippers asses. Well, that and Jim would go home and beat the wife after tough losses. Hey, we’ve got Non-Miller for that. Maybe we are more like them than we realize. 

Edited January 1 by mrags

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean he had Shakir wide open for TD today. Literally wide open and a clean pocket. At some point he has to see that.

 

He did not have a clean pocket on that play.  Maybe I'm wrong but he was pressured up the middle and had to bail out to his left making a throw to where Shakir was a risky proposition.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

He did not have a clean pocket on that play.  Maybe I'm wrong but he was pressured up the middle and had to bail out to his left making a throw to where Shakir was a risky proposition.

 

 

 

 

 

Nah this is the play where he missed Kincaid. Clean pocket, other side of the field, Shakir wide open doing handstands in the endzone.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 hours ago, Bill51390 said:

Crazy though the stats Allen is going to have and not be MVP. You look at his stats and you’d think there’s no way he isn’t MVP. It’s just that Allen isnt consistent enough. When he’s on, he’s the best player in the NFL by far. 

 

This is why there's one more week.

 

If Allen owns Miami the way he's owned them over the last few years, it's going to be close.

 

On a side note... are we all now in agreement that CMC, Tyreek and Purdy are out of it????

 

So you're either in the camp that Lamar has it wrapped up or it's Lamar and then Allen with a distant shot???

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nah this is the play where he missed Kincaid. Clean pocket, other side of the field, Shakir wide open doing handstands in the endzone.

Perfect pick by Davis too.  Josh forced  it to Kincaid instead.  Never looked to the wide open right side of the EZ

[Southern_Bills]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is why there's one more week.

 

If Allen owns Miami the way he's owned them over the last few years, it's going to be close.

 

On a side note... are we all now in agreement that CMC, Tyreek and Purdy are out of it????

 

So you're either in the camp that Lamar has it wrapped up or it's Lamar and then Allen with a distant shot???

 

Definitely Lamars to lose. Also Lamar had a huge day against the Phins which hurts Josh IMO.

 

Josh would have to blow Lamars numbers out if the water from this week to have a shot imo. Common opponent so close those games will be compared.

 

I'd rather the Bills win a Lombardi than Josh win an MVP though.

[transplantbillsfan]

Just now, Southern_Bills said:

 

Definitely Lamars to lose. Also Lamar had a huge day against the Phins which hurts Josh IMO.

 

Josh would have to blow Lamars numbers out if the water from this week to have a shot imo. Common opponent so close those games will be compared.

 

I'd rather the Bills win a Lombardi than Josh win an MVP though.

 

No he wouldn't have to blow Lamar's numbers out of the water, but I'd say he'd need comparable numbers.

 

Anything less than a win with 300 total yards, 4 total TDs, and more than 1 turnover and he has no shot.

 

I have a hard time believing voters would look at the QB of the #2 seed who has accumulated 4800+ total yards and 46+ total TDs and not think long and hard about making him the league MVP.

 

And just to be clear people... just win baby!!! I don't care how it looks.

[Chicken Boo]

Some of you are delusional.  Josh has no shot at MVP.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

I'm cool with no mvp for Josh. He had a great year but not his best.

Yeah any slight chance Josh had for an mvp ended today. Just too damn inconsistent.  Not enough playmakers and shuffling of OC's has caused a very chaotic season.  Hopefully Joe can eliminate some of these terrible plays, bench a couple non performers (Murray/Sherfield) and demand his wrs get seperation.  The Miami game starts the playoffs 1 week early. 

[BigDingus]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yeah any slight chance Josh had for an mvp ended today. Just too damn inconsistent.  Not enough playmakers and shuffling of OC's has caused a very chaotic season.  Hopefully Joe can eliminate some of these terrible plays, bench a couple non performers (Murray/Sherfield) and demand his wrs get seperation.  The Miami game starts the playoffs 1 week early. 

 

The biggest "non performer" was Josh though... Can't bench him.

[ChrisWatson#21]

Allen would need a "Heisman moment" just to steal a couple of votes from Lamar and keep him from being unanimous.  That’s over.

[Jeffbigalls]

Allen is not even in the conversation, he's not even close to Lamar. Allen has been bad all year, dudes arm is weak and his accuracy is terrible. This is embarrassing to even mention him and MVP in the same sentence 

[Heavy Kevi]

I don't think even if Allen goes 450/5td he can win it.

 

And who would really want him to get it this year? It's been ugly. Offense has been out of sorts most of the year. He's not as prepared as he had been in the past. I don't even think it would be good for him - he needs to go into the offseason with a chip on his shoulder.

 

He still has a legitimate shot at SB MVP which is wayyyyyyyy better anyways... but an MVP for him this year would be pretty rediculous even though he has 42tds. I guess the only reason he's still in conversation is there is no runaway MVP. Lamar isn't even really that good but the W's are a bigtime factor in mvp conversation.

[Scott7975]

This race is over.  Next week is an afterthought.  Voters probably already locked their votes in.  While I don't think Lamar had an MVP worthy season, Allen had a bad game.  Just wasn't good enough to convince anyone.  Next week won't matter.

[finn]

5 hours ago, Jeffbigalls said:

Allen is not even in the conversation, he's not even close to Lamar. Allen has been bad all year, dudes arm is weak and his accuracy is terrible. This is embarrassing to even mention him and MVP in the same sentence 

Right. And Oliver is garbage, the Bills got robbed in the Rasul Douglas trade, and Kincaid has been a bust. What are you, bored or something?

[Goin Breakdown]

Josh is our MVP. He will. It be the league MVP unless the Bills get him some WRs. Too many drops BUT Josh is off too. The chemistry with his WR looks lost. Os it the OC, is it the players? Both and now we're strapped by the cap, so I don't expect anything to change next year. 

[Aussie Joe]

13 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

Some of you are delusional.  Josh has no shot at MVP.

What if he scores another 5 rushing TDs against the Dolphins ?

 

Edited January 1 by Aussie Joe

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

What if he scores another 5 rushing TDs against the Dolphins ?

 

For whatever it's worth I know he'll of had an extra 2 games to have done it but he'll tie OJ's rushing TD record in Buffalo with 1 more.

[Brand J]

Going into the last regular season game of the year, Allen ranks:

 

12th in completion percentage (65.6)

7th in yards (3,947)

11th in yds/att (7.3)

7th in passing TDs (27)

2nd highest INTs (16)

16th in passer rating (91.5)

 

He ranks #1 in total TDs (42)

3rd in QBR (68.2)

His receivers rank 7th in drop percentage (5%) and number of drops (27).

 

If more of his damage was done through the air I think he would’ve been the odds on MVP favorite. If he had put on a show these past two weeks against bottom feeders Chargers and Patriots, I think he could’ve wrapped up MVP with a win and a solid performance vs the Dolphins. As it is, the award is Lamar’s to lose. Josh has been too inconsistent and the numbers/eye test bear that out. 

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

What if he scores another 5 rushing TDs against the Dolphins ?

 

 

Then he'll win offensive player of the week. 

[Scott7975]

Let me know when Allen has an offensive design and a #1 or even a #2 or any damn receiver that Josh can throw to like this and he will be MVP too.

 

[Gregg]

LJ has the 2023 MVP won. He deserves it.

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Gregg said:

LJ has the 2023 MVP won. He deserves it.

 

His play the last 2 games won it.  Unless Allen has 6-7 TD's in Miami 

[The Jokeman]

21 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Going into the last regular season game of the year, Allen ranks:

 

12th in completion percentage (65.6)

7th in yards (3,947)

11th in yds/att (7.3)

7th in passing TDs (27)

2nd highest INTs (16)

16th in passer rating (91.5)

 

He ranks #1 in total TDs (42)

3rd in QBR (68.2)

His receivers rank 7th in drop percentage (5%) and number of drops (27).

 

If more of his damage was done through the air I think he would’ve been the odds on MVP favorite. If he had put on a show these past two weeks against bottom feeders Chargers and Patriots, I think he could’ve wrapped up MVP with a win and a solid performance vs the Dolphins. As it is, the award is Lamar’s to lose. Josh has been too inconsistent and the numbers/eye test bear that out. 

Had Jackson not been perfect against Miami then the debate for Allen could be real. Yet Jackson had a performance for the ages and it's going to leave a lasting impression on voters. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Let me know when Allen has an offensive design and a #1 or even a #2 or any damn receiver that Josh can throw to like this and he will be MVP too.

 

That was a heck of a lot more bad defense than good play design haha. Everyone and their mother bit on the play fake 

[Chicken Boo]

8 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Let me know when Allen has an offensive design and a #1 or even a #2 or any damn receiver that Josh can throw to like this and he will be MVP too.

 

 

He had Gabe wide open in the endzone in consecutive weeks.  Missed him/miscommunication on 1 and didn't see him on the other.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

5 minutes ago, Gregg said:

LJ has the 2023 MVP won. He deserves it.

 

I agree he's going to win, but does he deserve it? I think this'll be an all-time weak résumé for an MVP. 

 

Leave Lamar's stats exactly the same, but pretend his defense choked away multiple games like the Bills DEF did. If the Ravens are 11-5 at this point is Lamar even in the top 5 for MVP ?

[DapperCam]

Allen should have gotten his perfect passer rating game vs the Dolphins at the end of the season instead of the beginning of the season. What was he thinking? Doesn’t he know that games at the end of the year are more important for MVP voters?

[C.Biscuit97]

41 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I agree he's going to win, but does he deserve it? I think this'll be an all-time weak résumé for an MVP. 

 

Leave Lamar's stats exactly the same, but pretend his defense choked away multiple games like the Bills DEF did. If the Ravens are 11-5 at this point is Lamar even in the top 5 for MVP ?

The Ravens defense has blown leads in all of their losses, including 2 double digit ones. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Ravens defense has blown leads in all of their losses, including 2 double digit ones. 

That's true but Jackson's late game pick six against the Browns didn't help ether. 

 

I think Jackson will win this years MVP but there will be a lot of other guys getting a decent amount of votes. For the record Jackson's challenge isn't winning a 2nd MVP but playing well and winning some playoff games.  In Jackson's 4 playoff games to date (1 - 3 record) he has not been exceptional in any one of them and he's been bad in 3 of them.

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

42 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I agree he's going to win, but does he deserve it? I think this'll be an all-time weak résumé for an MVP. 

 

Leave Lamar's stats exactly the same, but pretend his defense choked away multiple games like the Bills DEF did. If the Ravens are 11-5 at this point is Lamar even in the top 5 for MVP ?

102.7 qb rating 

8 wins by double digits against teams with winning records (no need to stat pad)

4,500 total yards

13-3, with all 3 losses they had leads in late. 

 

That is an all time weak MVP resume? 
 

 

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

That's true but Jackson's late game pick six against the Browns didn't help ether. 

 

I think Jackson will win this years MVP but there will be a lot of other guys getting a decent amount of votes. For the record Jackson's challenge isn't winning a 2nd MVP but playing well and winning some playoff games.  In Jackson's 4 playoff games to date (1 - 3 record) he has not been exceptional in any one of them and he's been bad in 3 of them.

 

 

 

 

I agree about the playoffs. But we have become so blind by the stats. I’d rather have Allen have Jackson’s year and limit his turnovers, which could have lead to more wins.  I also know those risks make Allen great but it’s not honest to think they haven’t hurt us too. 

[Herc11]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

102.7 qb rating 

8 wins by double digits against teams with winning records (no need to stat pad)

4,500 total yards

13-3, with all 3 losses they had leads in late. 

 

That is an all time weak MVP resume? 

Only two of the stats you listed are solely Lamar's. His stats across the board are middle of the pack. He was only considered for MVP after Purdy crapped the bed.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The Ravens defense has blown leads in all of their losses, including 2 double digit ones. 

 

Lamar was worse in the Steelers loss than JA was in week 1 against the Jets. 

 

Lamar lost a fumble, got sacked for a safety, and threw an INT (on a drive that started on the PIT 7 yard line after a Steelers turnover) while leading his team to 10 total points. His DEF allowed 15 points.

 

He was pretty bad in the Colts game as well. After taking a 17-16 lead with 7:33 left in the 4th Lamar's offense had 3 punts, a missed 61 yard FG, and a turnover on downs. The Ravens defense had 2 stops in OT (that's 2 more stops than the Bills DEF had in our 2 OT games combined) and only allowed 22 points total.  

 

Their loss to the Browns was a rollercoaster. Ravens DEF allowed 26 points and scored on a pick-6. Lamar and the offense put up 24 points, and he threw 2 INTs (one of which was returned for a TD). Ravens last 2 possessions in the 4th quarter with a chance to ice the game were the pick-6 and a punt. 

 

I'd say Lamar blew those games more than the DEF did. 

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

Only two of the stats you listed are solely Lamar's. His stats across the board are middle of the pack. He was only considered for MVP after Purdy crapped the bed.

Him being qb of the 4th ranked offense while throwing for the fewest ints in the league does help that team win games?

 

Allen is a monster. But a major difference between us and the Ravens (similarly ranked offenses and defenses) is turnovers. To discount the value of taking care of the ball is extremely foolish. 

7 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Lamar was worse in the Steelers loss than JA was in week 1 against the Jets. 

 

Lamar lost a fumble, got sacked for a safety, and threw an INT (on a drive that started on the PIT 7 yard line after a Steelers turnover) while leading his team to 10 total points. His DEF allowed 15 points.

 

He was pretty bad in the Colts game as well. After taking a 17-16 lead with 7:33 left in the 4th Lamar's offense had 3 punts, a missed 61 yard FG, and a turnover on downs. The Ravens defense had 2 stops in OT (that's 2 more stops than the Bills DEF had in our 2 OT games combined) and only allowed 22 points total.  

 

Their loss to the Browns was a rollercoaster. Ravens DEF allowed 26 points and scored on a pick-6. Lamar and the offense put up 24 points, and he threw 2 INTs (one of which was returned for a TD). Ravens last 2 possessions in the 4th quarter with a chance to ice the game were the pick-6 and a punt. 

 

I'd say Lamar blew those games more than the DEF did. 

 

 

 

 

You could do the same thing for us. Offense was completely garbage for the 1st halves of the Jets, Pats, Jags, Broncos, Chargers, Pats games. 
 

the Ravens and Lamar have gotten stronger as the season has gone on. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

The narrative not with just the media but football fans in general that don't watch much of the Bills is too negative for Josh to have a shot. 

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The narrative not with just the media but football fans in general that don't watch much of the Bills is too negative for Josh to have a shot. 

This mindset is so outdated. The Bills might be the team that is on primetime the most this season. There were plenty of showcase games - the chargers for instance - where Allen could have put on a show. His highs are as high as anyone. But to act like this has been a real inconsistent offense is kinda weird. 
 

We just take off quarters and halves. 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I agree he's going to win, but does he deserve it? I think this'll be an all-time weak résumé for an MVP. 

 

Leave Lamar's stats exactly the same, but pretend his defense choked away multiple games like the Bills DEF did. If the Ravens are 11-5 at this point is Lamar even in the top 5 for MVP ?

Are you including the Jets game that Josh lost on his own? He sucked against Denver too. You can’t lead the league in turnovers and be MVP. Lamar is the MVP. Not even close. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This mindset is so outdated. The Bills might be the team that is on primetime the most this season. There were plenty of showcase games - the chargers for instance - where Allen could have put on a show. His highs are as high as anyone. But to act like this has been a real inconsistent offense is kinda weird. 
 

We just take off quarters and halves. 

 

That part's probably true, and Josh really hasn't taken advantage of those situations. I didn't really convey it well in my post there but my point was more that I believe Josh does a lot to make up for bad coaching and lack of scheme and WR's that can't get open and I don't think other teams fans or the media in general really see that, a lot of them just buy into the narrative that he's just a big turnover machine for no apparent reason. 

 

I do think he's had more of those bad reads and missed opportunities this season but I also think they discount what he's working with here at times.