2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[section122]

On 12/12/2023 at 12:25 AM, Scott7975 said:

 

Instead all they talk about is the off sides call that was 1000% legit.  Oh and Allens int but nevermind Mahomes int.

 

This play wasnt even shown on any of the highlights I saw.  I think it had to do with the the questionable nature of murrays catch.

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, Since1981 said:

Brock surrounding cast is so much better than Josh has, it’s amazingly better

 

This is crazy:

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

On 12/12/2023 at 12:05 AM, Scott7975 said:

 

For me he don't.  I don't think he does to win a superbowl either.  For MVP voting I think he does.  Them guys are all about stats, wins, and seed.  I wish it was more than that because Allen IMO should have an MVP by now.

He's only had one season(2020) so far where he was legitimately in the discussion, and unfortunately Rodgers was there with him and just edged him out. he was a distant 2nd/3rd in 2021/2022 and If he wins out with good performances he may be able to claim another 2nd place this year. His only shot at winning IMO is an AFC meltdown where the Bills get the 1st seed. Otherwise it goes to Purdy, McCaffery or Dak I think with Stroud being a dark horse if they win the division. It's hard to argue that any player is more valuable to their team than Stroud has been this year, but that's not the way the voting works.

[Sherlock Holmes]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Except every game with Deebo out huh

Deebo isn't even his main receiver for some reason, Aiyuk has been.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is crazy:

 

 

Brock's cast is insane but he's been executing it at a high level.

 

I think they need to just switch to a hockey model. 

 

MVP, Best QB, Best WR  etc etc.  You could say the Pro-Bowl/All-Pro teams do this, but the Pro Bowl is basically dead at this point.

 

MVP as it stands is basically the best statistical QB on one of the best teams, and if that player doesn't exist, it's a historic performance by a future HoF player.

 

As it stands, it's Brock v Dak.  And I think Dak gets it if they are the 1 seed.

[Warcodered]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

Right, it's like see this picture this was a first down.

[BigDingus]

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

The reality is that MVP doesn't mean "Most Valuable Player".  It means "the player with great stats and a bunch of wins"

 

How can someone account for 85% of the teams total TDs and not be the most valuable.  (and 9 of Hurts's TD's were 1 yard tush pushes).

 

 

 

EXACTLY.

 

That's why there's no point in hoping we Bills can singlehandedly change the narrative. 

 

Josh would need to miraculously stop throwing INTs for a several games, while also somehow pulling this team to the playoffs. That's the only hope of him seriously being in the conversation.

 

Dak would also have to fall apart. 30 TDs to 6 INTs looks too good, especially given Dallas' record. Purdy & Lamar are also way up there. The Bills at 7-6 and Josh already tying his moat INTs in a season isn't getting him there. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

56 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

 

Dak would also have to fall apart. 30 TDs to 6 INTs looks too good, especially given Dallas' record. Purdy & Lamar are also way up there. The Bills at 7-6 and Josh already tying his moat INTs in a season isn't getting him there. 

Lamar has an uphill battle because the numbers simply aren’t there. He hasn’t been efficient (QBR below 60) and I think he hasn’t even hit 20 total touchdowns on the season yet. We only have four games left. more than any other quarterback he would really need to finish the year on a real heater to get his numbers up.
 

 

[KDIGGZ]

This is going to be embarrassing when Purdy wins MVP when he's probably the 7th best player on his own team!

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

This is going to be embarrassing when Purdy wins MVP when he's probably the 7th best player on his own team!

 

That system makes any QB look good.

 

 

 

[mrags]

24 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That system makes any QB look good.

 

 

 

Who cares who gets to 10 first. Allen will outlast them all. He’s built different. Murray will be done well before Josh ever hangs up his cleats. Murray is just to small and fragile. Hurts is only because of the stupid tush push. That will be phased out eventually. Teams will find a way to stop it. The league will ban it. Something will happen. Still, Hurts ain’t built like Allen either. Probably the closest I can think. But I just don’t see it lasting. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Who cares who gets to 10 first. Allen will outlast them all. He’s built different. Murray will be done well before Josh ever hangs up his cleats. Murray is just to small and fragile. Hurts is only because of the stupid tush push. That will be phased out eventually. Teams will find a way to stop it. The league will ban it. Something will happen. Still, Hurts ain’t built like Allen either. Probably the closest I can think. But I just don’t see it lasting. 

 

Geez calm down.  It's just a tweet. I found it fun.  K?

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Geez calm down.  It's just a tweet. I found it fun.  K?

Who said I wasn’t calm? 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Who said I wasn’t calm? 

 

When I see a comment like this: "Who cares who gets to 10 first." and then a long wordy response over a simple tweet... seems like you mad 

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

When I see a comment like this: "Who cares who gets to 10 first." and then a long wordy response over a simple tweet... seems like you mad 

That sounds like a you problem. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

That sounds like a you problem. 

 

Ok so if you were in a normal conversation with someone face to face and you said something to them and they say back to you " who cares bro." What would you think about that?

 

Anyhow I am done with the conversation.  All I did was post a tweet.

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Ok so if you were in a normal conversation with someone face to face and you said something to them and they say back to you " who cares bro." What would you think about that?

 

Anyhow I am done with the conversation.  All I did was post a tweet.

Just saying I think you’re taking the response too personal. It’s not personal. It’s just a response to the tweet that you posted. It’s not like you were one that created the tweet. You are just sharing it. 
 

anyway. Have a great night. 

[C.Biscuit97]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:17 AM, The Wiz said:

The reality is that MVP doesn't mean "Most Valuable Player".  It means "the player with great stats and a bunch of wins"

 

How can someone account for 85% of the teams total TDs and not be the most valuable.  (and 9 of Hurts's TD's were 1 yard tush pushes).

 

 

TDs can also be misleading. Last year, the Eagles murder teams in the first half and just milked the clock in the 2nd half. The Ravens have had the lead for like most amount of time in their games at like the 3 best rate in history. One year, Rodgers had Aaron Jones have 18 rushing tds which could have been sneaks or one yard passes. 
 

I do agree the MVP is flawed and qb record is completely mislead. Any one know the qb in the modern era who won MVp with the most losses? 

[TheFunPolice]

I hate to say it, but Tyreek Hill is the MVP

 

With him, the Dolphins could score a TD on literally any down, and he's often wide open by 10+ yards. 

 

Without him, the Dolphins are just another offense. 

 

 

[NewEra]

On 12/13/2023 at 6:24 AM, section122 said:

 

This play wasnt even shown on any of the highlights I saw.  I think it had to do with the the questionable nature of murrays catch.

And that it led to a punt

On 12/13/2023 at 7:44 AM, BullBuchanan said:

He's only had one season(2020) so far where he was legitimately in the discussion, and unfortunately Rodgers was there with him and just edged him out. he was a distant 2nd/3rd in 2021/2022 and If he wins out with good performances he may be able to claim another 2nd place this year. His only shot at winning IMO is an AFC meltdown where the Bills get the 1st seed. Otherwise it goes to Purdy, McCaffery or Dak I think with Stroud being a dark horse if they win the division. It's hard to argue that any player is more valuable to their team than Stroud has been this year, but that's not the way the voting works.

I think the Purdy/cmc conundrum could open the door for first place if we run the table and he plays out of his mind.  I think Dak will win if they beat us and continue their current level of plays. 

[SCBills]

It's all setting up for the Josh Allen MVP run if we beat Dallas.

 

ESPN has been hyping him all morning.  Even Stephen A Smith, unprovoked, gave props to JA and essentially said it's time to recognize his greatness. 

[Airseven]

Just now, SCBills said:

It's all setting up for the Josh Allen MVP run if we beat Dallas.

 

ESPN has been hyping him all morning.  Even Stephen A Smith, unprovoked, gave props to JA and essentially said it's time to recognize his greatness. 

 

I thought we don't care what ESPN and the other talking heads have to say?

[Warcodered]

Just now, SCBills said:

It's all setting up for the Josh Allen MVP run if we beat Dallas.

 

ESPN has been hyping him all morning.  Even Stephen A Smith, unprovoked, gave props to JA and essentially said it's time to recognize his greatness. 

Steven A is just hoping he destroys Dallas as an early Christmas present for him.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

I thought we don't care what ESPN and the other talking heads have to say?

 

Who's "we".. this is the first time I've commented in this thread. 

 

I think the talking heads, especially on ESPN, are a joke.. but unfortunately they do drive narratives. 

[BBFL]

As it stands he’s in the top 4 with Purdy, Dak and Tyreek to me. Need him to go on a tear and we win out for him to claim that award. 

[mrags]

2 hours ago, BBFL said:

As it stands he’s in the top 4 with Purdy, Dak and Tyreek to me. Need him to go on a tear and we win out for him to claim that award. 

If we win out and he plays like he did the last few weeks he’ll get it 

[Rigotz]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

I hate to say it, but Tyreek Hill is the MVP

 

With him, the Dolphins could score a TD on literally any down, and he's often wide open by 10+ yards. 

 

Without him, the Dolphins are just another offense. 

 

 

 

As much as I hate to say it, I agree.

 

If Josh and Pat were playing like their usual selves all year, they'd have a chance.

 

This year, Tyreek has it all. The stats, the flash, the wins, and it's something new. That's what people vote for.

[pocoboy]

Josh needs to think as little as he possibly can about MVP. Just do the job. If he plays to his ability, the rest will fall into place with whatever accolades are available.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

As much as I hate to say it, I agree.

 

If Josh and Pat were playing like their usual selves all year, they'd have a chance.

 

This year, Tyreek has it all. The stats, the flash, the wins, and it's something new. That's what people vote for.

It all depends on how the Dolphins finish. And if Hill keeps having injury issues and his production falls off because of that, he is not going to win MVP.

 

I think it is a stretch anyway. A WR has never won it. The award almost always goes to the QB with the best stats on a team with a great record.

Edited December 14, 2023 by MJS

[mrags]

9 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

As much as I hate to say it, I agree.

 

If Josh and Pat were playing like their usual selves all year, they'd have a chance.

 

This year, Tyreek has it all. The stats, the flash, the wins, and it's something new. That's what people vote for.

How so? He’s on pace to throw for his 2nd highest yards in a single season. He’s in pace for 32 passing TDs (his 4th highest and only 5 away from his highest) and 13 rushing TDs. He will likely exceed the 2nd highest TDs scored this season by double digits. And he’s done all this while having quite a few down weeks in the middle of the season. Of things continue like they have the last few games he should exceed all of his career highs in every category. If you are looking at his high number of ints as to why he’s undeserving he’s not much more than other league leaders in passing. While sitting at 14 is high, Tua, Lawrence, Hurts have 10, Mahomes and Love have 11. While he’s clearly in the league lead in turnovers, he’s also clearly in the lead of total TDs. Even Hurts will all the praise he gets only has 31 total TDs where as Allen has 35. Point being, if Allen wins out these last 4 games and even looks close to how he has the last few weeks, he’ll be in the top consideration for it. 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

As much as I hate to say it, I agree.

 

If Josh and Pat were playing like their usual selves all year, they'd have a chance.

 

This year, Tyreek has it all. The stats, the flash, the wins, and it's something new. That's what people vote for.

Heard a stat today-  Josh allen is the only player in nfl history to account for 35 TDs through 13 games.  Saw another stats:  that he’s accounted for 84%+ of the Bills TDs this year.  By FAR %1 in the league.  And he hasn’t scored on 10 tush pushes.  
 

If I’m a voter, Purdy and mccaffery cancel each other out.  How can 2 players from the same team both guys be “most valuable” in the league when we don’t even know who is the most valuable to their own team?  And in reality, neither are the best player on the team.  They might not even be top 3
 

The race should be between Josh, Dak, Lamar and Tyreek imo.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by NewEra

[balln]

please take tyreke off the discussion. hes a loser

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12859617/Dolphins-wide-receiver-Tyreek-Hill-married-paternity-suits.html

[The Wiz]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

TDs can also be misleading. Last year, the Eagles murder teams in the first half and just milked the clock in the 2nd half. The Ravens have had the lead for like most amount of time in their games at like the 3 best rate in history. One year, Rodgers had Aaron Jones have 18 rushing tds which could have been sneaks or one yard passes. 
 

I do agree the MVP is flawed and qb record is completely mislead. Any one know the qb in the modern era who won MVp with the most losses? 

Rich Gannon in 2002 with an 11-5 record?

[JerseyBills]

I put a little something on Josh last week. If he balls out this month he'll be worthy

[billybob71]

i tried watching it, got thru about 30 seconds 

[Drew21PA]

Unfortunately not this season….even winning out I have a hard time with Josh winning it.

 

I disagree that he is a “turnover machine” narrative becuase it’s Josh.  BUT when it comes to the mvp maybe he does take too many chances resulting in picks vs winning 

 

hell of a run if he can win the next 5 and beat Miami to get the afc east championship again.  I mean wow!

 

playoffs winning out for sure

 

ill take Super Bowl mvp - but let’s get to the playoffs first 

[C.Biscuit97]

22 hours ago, SCBills said:

It's all setting up for the Josh Allen MVP run if we beat Dallas.

 

ESPN has been hyping him all morning.  Even Stephen A Smith, unprovoked, gave props to JA and essentially said it's time to recognize his greatness. 

But I thought ESPN hates him??? Though SAS might just hate Dallas more. 
 

but this is the perfect game to get rid of the Allen “hate.” No turnovers and playing well against Dallas would be huge for him. 

[WNYFAN1]

20 hours ago, mrags said:

How so? He’s on pace to throw for his 2nd highest yards in a single season. He’s in pace for 32 passing TDs (his 4th highest and only 5 away from his highest) and 13 rushing TDs. He will likely exceed the 2nd highest TDs scored this season by double digits. And he’s done all this while having quite a few down weeks in the middle of the season. Of things continue like they have the last few games he should exceed all of his career highs in every category. If you are looking at his high number of ints as to why he’s undeserving he’s not much more than other league leaders in passing. While sitting at 14 is high, Tua, Lawrence, Hurts have 10, Mahomes and Love have 11. While he’s clearly in the league lead in turnovers, he’s also clearly in the lead of total TDs. Even Hurts will all the praise he gets only has 31 total TDs where as Allen has 35. Point being, if Allen wins out these last 4 games and even looks close to how he has the last few weeks, he’ll be in the top consideration for it. 

"He’s on pace to throw for his 2nd highest yards in a single season." Who in the heck would care about this stat???

[FireChans]

53 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But I thought ESPN hates him??? Though SAS might just hate Dallas more. 
 

but this is the perfect game to get rid of the Allen “hate.” No turnovers and playing well against Dallas would be huge for him. 

No turnovers?

 

I think we win, but get real

[Since1981]

Unless third seed, MVP won’t happen. 1973 OJ MVP didn’t make playoffs—that can’t happen with ethos of MVP in 2023
 

I would argue the system is rigged in that Josh, Patty, Hill are 3 most important players “MIP” holding their teams together—-> as true team MVPs. But that’s not what NFL MVP is anymore.