Bring Kirksey up

[John from Riverside]

Honestly, so far, Bernard has done nothing to lose that starting middle linebacker spot
 

But

 

Have to prepare for contingencies, and I really don’t wanna see Dodson on the field at any point get Kirksey up as fast as possible whenever teams go run heavy, he will be an asset

Edited September 19, 2023 by John from Riverside

[Wizard]

Kirksey would be good to bring in on short yardage running situations or when they need a little extra power to account for so the DE's can fly to the QB and have Kirksey plug himself up near the line of scrimmage.

[JoPoy88]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Honestly, so far, Bernard has done nothing to lose that starting middle linebacker spot
 

But

 

Have to prepare for contingencies, and I really don’t wanna see Dodson on the field at any point get Kirksey up as fast as possible whenever teams go run heavy, he will be an asset

Generally agree but I don’t think there’s too much of a hurry anymore with Bernard’s play.

[NeverOutNick]

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

Edited September 19, 2023 by NeverOutNick

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

I rewatched the game and focused mainly on him on D.  He made 2 very solid solo tackles against jacobs.  He took on blocks and held his ground.  He was barking at his teammates 24/7.  Seemed to be in decent position in coverage as well. 
 

I think if you watch the game with a focus on him, you’d find he played a solid game (albeit vs a bad team).  
 

And Kirksey was never really that good.  Basically and below average starting Mike imo.  I’m really happy with his addition, but I don’t think much better than what we’ve seen from Bernard at this point.  Jmo

Edited September 19, 2023 by NewEra

[Eastport bills]

19 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Honestly, so far, Bernard has done nothing to lose that starting middle linebacker spot
 

But

 

Have to prepare for contingencies, and I really don’t wanna see Dodson on the field at any point get Kirksey up as fast as possible whenever teams go run heavy, he will be an asset

 I  thought for sure they brought him in to get him on the field by now.I guess it’s taken time for him to learn the offense and the defensive signals. You’re right about Dodson being a last resort. I also want to see Williams, but playing the nickel most plays, Milano doesn’t leave the field.

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Honestly, so far, Bernard has done nothing to lose that starting middle linebacker spot
 

But

 

Have to prepare for contingencies, and I really don’t wanna see Dodson on the field at any point get Kirksey up as fast as possible whenever teams go run heavy, he will be an asset

 

So just who are you wanting to cut to make room for Kirksey?

 

By the way Dodson played something like 20% of the snaps on Sunday, and no one seemed to remark on it which is a Good Thing

(The starters went out with about 15% of the snaps left)

Edited September 19, 2023 by Beck Water

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

He’s smashed expectations so I think that’s part of it. 
 

To your point, right in front of me during the Jets game he got absolutely embarrassed by an OL. Like blocked so hard his body went boneless and he back flipped. It was actually hilarious.

 

That said he’s been pretty decent. When expectations are a JuCo player, it’s ok to be excited with “pretty decent”.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

I'll say this for Bernard...no way does Edmunds snag that pick off the deflection. That was nice. 

[BillsUberAlles]

20 minutes ago, NeverOutNick said:

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

 

I think you need to rewatch, you aren't seeing right.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

So just who are you wanting to cut to make room for Kirksey?

 

By the way Dodson played something like 20% of the snaps on Sunday, and no one seemed to remark on it which is a Good Thing

(The starters went out with about 15% of the snaps left)

15% was garbage time when we pulled the starters, although he did get a couple snaps in the 3rd qtr iirc.  I remember seeing #25 thinking wth is that, Da’Norris Searcy?  

[Dr.Sack]

Bernard has the youth movement advantage and is playing good. I think if you look at our roster construction nearly all the older players are dinged up (Miller, Hyde, Floyd). All players above 30 dealing with injuries. Better to keep the young guys in there and allow them to learn and develop. When the weather turns Kirksy would be a good option to help plug the middle. A great insurance option. 

[White Linen]

I haven't watched the games back but I've noticed Milano playing MLB some of the time. 

[Maybe Someday]

Is Kirksey still good? He did just get cut by Houston. I recall he had a few decent seasons a couple years ago but haven’t heard much from him since. I can’t imagine he plays special teams either.

 

If we did, who would we cut to make room for him? 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

So just who are you wanting to cut to make room for Kirksey?

 

By the way Dodson played something like 20% of the snaps on Sunday, and no one seemed to remark on it which is a Good Thing

(The starters went out with about 15% of the snaps left)

That’s easy for me Dodson
 

You can’t tell me, the Kirksey is not better than Dodson no way

 

For chrissake, he put up numbers that were better than Tremaine Edmunds best year last year

17 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

Is Kirksey still good? He did just get cut by Houston. I recall he had a few decent seasons a couple years ago but haven’t heard much from him since. I can’t imagine he plays special teams either.

 

If we did, who would we cut to make room for him? 

Why are we acting like Dodson is even a NFL average linebacker

[Beck Water]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

That’s easy for me Dodson
 

You can’t tell me, the Kirksey is not better than Dodson no way

 

For chrissake, he put up numbers that were better than Tremaine Edmunds best year last year

 

He may or may not be better than Dodson right now in our system.  Let’s assume for a second he is

 

Dodson is a regular and a leader on ST.  79% of ST snaps so far.

 

Kirksey last played significant ST snaps back in 2017 and regular in 2016.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I'll say this for Bernard...no way does Edmunds snag that pick off the deflection. That was nice. 

I had a similar thought. I could see him getting his hands on it, but then drop it. 
 

I still don’t know if I’m sold on Bernard. If that d line can play that way consistently, this small backer thing might work after all 

[HappyDays]

Bernard is proving that MLB is a devalued position. In pure talent the drop off from Edmunds to him is massive, and yet the defense as a whole is performing just as well if not better than last year.

[John from Riverside]

29 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

He may or may not be better than Dodson right now in our system.  Let’s assume for a second he is

 

Dodson is a regular and a leader on ST.  79% of ST snaps so far.

 

Kirksey last played significant ST snaps back in 2017 and regular in 2016.

That special teams has worked so well we literally lost a game on a punt return in week one
 

I actually never understood all of the emphasis on special teams. Yes, you need gunners, but the majority of your special teams should be filled out by youth players, and you save those spots for actual contributors on offense and defense.

 

There is no way that I am saving a spot for Dodson

[Brand J]

58 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Bernard is proving that MLB is a devalued position. In pure talent the drop off from Edmunds to him is massive, and yet the defense as a whole is performing just as well if not better than last year.

Edmunds has the better physical attributes, but Bernard has been showing a mental fortitude that Edmunds never played with, so I disagree that Edmunds is massively more talented. Bernard has been playing without hesitation; he's trusting his instincts and flying around like a DB. If his play continues on an upward trajectory, it won’t be long before we consider him a massive upgrade to Tremaine. 

[John from Riverside]

8 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Edmunds has the better physical attributes, but Bernard has been showing a mental fortitude that Edmunds never played with, so I disagree that Edmunds is massively more talented. Bernard has been playing without hesitation; he's trusting his instincts and flying around like a DB. If his play continues on an upward trajectory, it won’t be long before we consider him a massive upgrade to Tremaine. 

I am definitely not seem to bench Bernard at this point if he continues to improve this year of seasoning will make him that much better of a player and I will justify his draft pick that most people have been slamming on
 

But this is not about that. If something happens to Bernard, it’s Dotson there is no way I want Dotson on the field. He makes too many mental mistakes being has done a good job and having a decent starter and then a quality back up behind them at most positions. Why not this one?

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

15% was garbage time when we pulled the starters, although he did get a couple snaps in the 3rd qtr iirc.  I remember seeing #25 thinking wth is that, Da’Norris Searcy?  

 

Definitely did the same kind of thing as early as the 1st quarter IIRC; nudged the guy who often sits next to us to ask him who the #el! number 25 is. He looked it up and saw the new number assigned to Dodson. When did that number change happen?

[ProcessTruster]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Generally agree but I don’t think there’s too much of a hurry anymore with Bernard’s play.

Yep, McBeans killed it again with making that pick and staying patient with the kid.  Now's the payoff, just like Knox, Benford, Allen and a host of others

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Soon Dodson will be released for Kirksey.

[SoonerBillsFan]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Generally agree but I don’t think there’s too much of a hurry anymore with Bernard’s play.

And... we will be making a move soon roster wise for Von.

[Matt_In_NH]

I see no need to do anything at this juncture, that could change quickly though.  You have call ups as an option before deciding to put him on the roster.  I think Beane will try and get as far as he can without adding tot he cap though (Dodson's contract is fully guaranteed it looks like).   If another team was to try and sign him and that forced the Bills hand, sure, that is not very likely though.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

The Bills held Jacobs to -2 yards rushing. Bernard was the highest rated run defender on the defense. And while I'm not a huge believer in a PFF rating determining who plays good or not, it's a nice tool to see if it reaffirms what we are visually seeing. In this case the grade matches the eye test.

 

The place he is having some issues still is presnap getting the defense set. However, I believe this is something that will resolve itself once he gets more live action snaps in. 

 

While you are saying to bring Kirksey up now because the schedule is somewhat soft, I'd argue if we are facing a softer schedule this is the time to have Bernard learn. Save Kirksey's call ups for when he's needed more to injury or matchup. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG

[ToGoGo]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

That special teams has worked so well we literally lost a game on a punt return in week one
 

I actually never understood all of the emphasis on special teams. Yes, you need gunners, but the majority of your special teams should be filled out by youth players, and you save those spots for actual contributors on offense and defense.

 

There is no way that I am saving a spot for Dodson

Was Dodson a big reason for the punt return TD? 
 

I’m not sure, I’m just asking. 

[Spiderweb]

9 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

Not this past Sunday. He simply played well.

[Coach Tuesday]

Matchup specific call-up.  The Patriots (at least) will go heavy personnel against this defense to take advantage of Bernard and others - DO NOT WAIT for that to happen and then react post-game about “lesson learned.”

[skibum]

Since Bernard is playing well enough, I say why activate Kirksey? Keep him healthy and fresh on the shelf. 

[eee1776]

I agree, Ive been waiting for thr team to bring him up before some team poches him off our practice squad

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, eee1776 said:

I agree, Ive been waiting for thr team to bring him up before some team poches him off our practice squad

 

 

He's a vet - he has to sign and isn't on waivers or anything.  Only way he's doing that is if its for a different likely playoff bound team.  He came here to get up to speed with a new defense, and hopefully contribute.  I believe we were interested in him before he signed with Houston, so I think he came here knowing the spot isn't set in stone, and he likes coaches/gm, and there's a chance to get that ring.  

[The Jokeman]

8 minutes ago, eee1776 said:

I agree, Ive been waiting for thr team to bring him up before some team poches him off our practice squad

 

Nobody can pooch him unless he wants to go, am sure we're just waiting for him to be healthy and then we'll call him up and either cut or IR Dodson to make a roster spot. 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Matchup specific call-up.  The Patriots (at least) will go heavy personnel against this defense to take advantage of Bernard and others - DO NOT WAIT for that to happen and then react post-game about “lesson learned.”

Correct.  easily predictable from a divisional rival that wants to power run anyway. here’s hoping it’s easy for McD and the boys to predict and be proactive, rather than get outcoached and saved by Josh.

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

I’m usually a glass half full guy and I’m seeing a lot of love for Bernard but outside of the INT I don’t get what everyone sees. He seems to be out of position a lot and not a big help against the run. I hope he grows into the position more and I’m happy he made that INT but I’d definitely bring Kirksey up sooner rather than later while the schedule is still somewhat soft 

I was impressed on Sunday.   He makes his reads and explodes to the ball.   Much quick challenging at the point of attack than Edmunds was, which isn't surprising given the size differential - you can't expect instantaneous acceleration from a guy Edmunds' size.  He also has much better tackling technique than Edmunds - he gets low and drives his shoulder into the ball carrier and wraps him up - classic tackling technique.   I'm not saying he's as good or as useful as Edmunds was, but there are some things about his game that make him effective where Edmunds was almost a liability.  

 

I haven't seen out of position much, but that's probably because I haven't always watched him.  But out of position was a problem Edmunds had in his early years, too.  Probably Milano, too.  I think that's to be expected from almost any young guy playing the position.   What they're looking at is much more complicated than what they saw in college, and there's no way to learn it other than being out there and having it happen to you in real time.   That doesn't mean he will improve, but at least it explains why he may not be making the right decision every time yet.  

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

12 hours ago, NewEra said:

I rewatched the game and focused mainly on him on D.  He made 2 very solid solo tackles against jacobs.  He took on blocks and held his ground.  He was barking at his teammates 24/7.  Seemed to be in decent position in coverage as well. 
 

I think if you watch the game with a focus on him, you’d find he played a solid game (albeit vs a bad team).  
 

And Kirksey was never really that good.  Basically and below average starting Mike imo.  I’m really happy with his addition, but I don’t think much better than what we’ve seen from Bernard at this point.  Jmo

I rewatched both games and also focused on Bernard....Room for improvement early on in the Jets game but largely played solid.  No complaints from the Raiders game.  He actually played very well and dare I say, in most aspects, better than Edmunds.  He can be overly aggressive but I believe he has better instincts than Edmunds. 

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

I rewatched both games and also focused on Bernard....Room for improvement early on in the Jets game but largely played solid.  No complaints from the Raiders game.  He actually played very well and dare I say, in most aspects, better than Edmunds.  He can be overly aggressive but I believe he has better instincts than Edmunds. 

Agreed 💯 

 

It’s still early but I’m happy with the defense so far minus Von.  2 weeks should be interesting 

[somnus00]

I think Dodson came in for Taron on the Raiders 16 yard WR screen/TD. Some kind of heavy package that we hopefully don't see very often moving forward. 

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Definitely did the same kind of thing as early as the 1st quarter IIRC; nudged the guy who often sits next to us to ask him who the #el! number 25 is. He looked it up and saw the new number assigned to Dodson. When did that number change happen?

No idea.  Probably before game 1 but didn’t notice