Do the Bills need a " Quarterback Whisperer?"

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, BillsUberAlles said:

 

I thought he looked fine other than the dumb decisions. This was an elite D FYI. Very few teams have the personnel to do that to us.

it’s good perspective and also why I’ve echoed it was a handful of plays and we are still a contender…

 

that said, they have to figure out this piece with overcoming adversity against the best if they intend to win 3 playoff games and a Super Bowl ever

[BobbyC81]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Fitz?  Mr Aggressive Pick 6?  That's your choice to keep Josh in check?

 

I do think that Dorsey, a former college and NFL QB, was helpful to keeping Josh focused.  I think Kyle Allen is too much of a buddy and too junior to be able to rein Josh in or to be able to pick out what the defense is doing.

 

That's supposedly Joe Brady's job, but I felt the role Dorsey filled was absent this year.

I recall seeing former WR coach Chad Hall sitting with Josh over the previous couple of years and showing him things on a tablet.  He surprisingly made a lateral move to Jacksonville when his contract ended.

 

We also shouldn’t overlook any prior contributions from Davis Webb, who is now the QB coach for Denver.  In previous seasons, the QB room has included the likes of Webb, Barkley and Keenum and now has Josh’s mildly experienced Buddy in Kyle Allen and a young Buechele, who is new to the team.

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Diggs seems to be the only one with any energy…. Josh looked like a scared puppy all night.

but that doesn’t even have to mean hyped up energy. Like Josh needed to get balanced and swap out of dueling Rodgers into grinding out Wilson. 
 

14 points wins last night if there are no turnovers in their own end. That’s much different than trying to get to 30 against an elite team because Rodgers might blow up your defense. Josh was still chasing 30 with some manic energy after Rodgers went out. Someone needed to remind him it’s a game where you get the first and go out of bounds. You fall on the botched snap. So on and so forth. Someone needed to rewire his approach pretty early. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by NoSaint

[Dan in Owego]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He was skittish all game I thought….really didn’t look like the elite Josh we’ve seen at all.

He looked to me like he was on some kind of sugar high and he just couldn't settle down. I got no idea if this will be a trend or he can reel it back in and fly right going forward. no good to have the most impressive stallion in the pasture if it keeps busting through the fence time after time.

[Airseven]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Diggs seems to be the only one with any energy…. Josh looked like a scared puppy all night.

Those pudgy, rosy cheeks and vacant stare did not inspire confidence. Even Diggs was gentle when he finally came over and tried to encourage him in the fourth quarter. 

[Dukestreetking]

I hope The Whisperer can get this guy back.

 

 

[Dan in Owego]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s why I’d prefer an experienced offensive coach… Dorsey doesn’t really come off as a coach who can talk Josh off the ledge.

You may be right, but it's year 6 Josh shouldn't need this guidance. I like some of Ken's concepts on offense so not quite ready to throw him aside just yet, i think Sean needs to be the one to get in his ear. Maybe McDermott isn't the right head coach as well hard to imagine this happening over and over with someone like Sean Payton

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Can Allen read a defense? 

 

That's on the table for me. 

 

Because no way he is understanding what he's seeing. 

 

He's erratic. For every miracle flip to Murray to salvage 3rd-9, he then tries to run up the middle and takes a huge shot to the ribs. 

[BillsUberAlles]

54 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He was skittish all game I thought….really didn’t look like the elite Josh we’ve seen at all.

 

Not sure any QB will look great against that Jet D...they have elite talent at every level.

[DeltaDigital]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Because Daboll had the Giants so ready to perform on Sunday? 

Daboll doesnt have 1/10 the talent this roster has. It's not arguable that since daboll left, allen has regressed. 

[DeltaDigital]

4 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Everytime I hear the word "dabs" I throw up a bit in my throat. 

 

He might available after this year though if he sinks the ship with Daniel Jones at the helm.

they should run with a giant sack of money to re-hire him. 

[Bangarang]

What’s David Lee up to these days? 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

What’s David Lee up to these days? 

Is Matt Barkley QB coach material? The dynamics between Allen and him in the past should give an indication if Barkley can be more helpful than Joe Brady. We cannot change the OC just yet and Allen is the bigger issue. If we can somehow start small,  replace the QB coach,  Allen may turn the corner.  Won't be immediate but that's okay as long as we can squeak into the playoffs

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, DeltaDigital said:

Daboll doesnt have 1/10 the talent this roster has. It's not arguable that since daboll left, allen has regressed. 

 

OK, I think it is arguable and so do a number of other folks here.  Josh had good games in 2022, including early wins over the Rams, Titans, Ravens, Steelers, and a solid solid game vs. the Chiefs plus a 6 game win streak on an injured throwing elbow.

 

He had some miserable games in 2021, including Pitts home opener, loss to the Titans where we couldn't move the ball in the 2nd half, miserable loss to Jacksonville, first half of the eventual overtime loss to Tampa. 

 

It's nowhere near as clear cut as you make it seem.

 

Daboll arguably has a less talented roster than the Bills, but any team that won 9 games last season and made the playoffs, then improved in the off season has more than 10% of the talent the top teams have. 

 

The point is, they played the Cowboys tough and lost by a single score 2x last season, the core of that team is back, and yet they got their asses whipped on Sunday.  That's on coaching IMHO not entirely on roster talent.

 

Plus we have all kinds of people fretting and fuming that we lost Hodgins to the Giants and traded them Basham for a bag of peanuts.

 

8 minutes ago, DeltaDigital said:

they should run with a giant sack of money to re-hire him. 

 

Yeah, now you're just trolling.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Beck Water

[DeltaDigital]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, I think it is arguable and so do a number of other folks here.  Josh had good games in 2022, including early wins over the Rams, Titans, Ravens, Steelers, and a solid solid game vs. the Chiefs plus a 6 game win streak on an injured throwing elbow.

 

He had some miserable games in 2021, including Pitts home opener, loss to the Titans where we couldn't move the ball in the 2nd half, miserable loss to Jacksonville, first half of the eventual overtime loss to Tampa. 

 

It's nowhere near as clear cut as you make it seem.

 

Daboll arguably has a less talented roster than the Bills, but any team that won 9 games last season and made the playoffs, then improved in the off season has more than 10% of the talent the top teams have. 

 

The point is, they played the Cowboys tough and lost by a single score 2x last season, the core of that team is back, and yet they got their asses whipped on Sunday.  That's on coaching IMHO not entirely on roster talent.

 

Plus we have all kinds of people fretting and fuming that we lost Hodgins to the Giants and traded them Basham for a bag of peanuts.

Stats don't lie breh. Allen had ZERO redzone turnovers till daboll left, and he leads the league in turnovers since daboll left. 

None of the losses you mentioned with as egregeous as him, lastnight, HANDING ZACH WILSON ANOTHER W. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

By “QB whisperer” do you mean to say “good head coach”

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I didn't really like Daboll as a coordinator, but he definitely did a better job keeping Allen grounded.  Personally, I think two things...

 

1. They need to hire someone for the sidelines that can keep Allen grounded or find an OC than can and fire Dorsey. The QB coach and Dorsey are not getting this job done.

 

2. I think they are trying too hard to coach Allen out of Allen with regards to him running with the football.  I understand the injury risk but now I think he thinks too much about not running and that is not only going to get him hurt because of his fighting himself thinking about it and not committing to running and also he now is forcing the ball more often than he would have been because he would have took off and run for a first down instead.

 

wrt running, just have him slide.  tell him run all you want, but slide unless the game is on the line.  Also, he is likely to get hit a few times sliding and its 15 free yards. 

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

it’s good perspective and also why I’ve echoed it was a handful of plays and we are still a contender…

 

that said, they have to figure out this piece with overcoming adversity against the best if they intend to win 3 playoff games and a Super Bowl ever

 

bingo on the last part.  the “it’s a good D excuse” is bonkers.  Guess what teams you play in the postseason or SB will have. a good D. 

[Utah John]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I agree.

 

I fully recognize that it sounds ridiculous and there is little (or perhaps zero) precedence for it, but we should have let McDermott go and kept Daboll. 

I really don't think so.  Daboll's ability as a HC is still in question.  He's a great OC though, and the Bills certainly miss him.

[longtimebillsfan]

12 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

Who is with JA on the sidelines to keep his head in check? To talk him down or talk him up?

 

It's obvious to everyone that Josh has free reign to do what he pleases with apparently no restrictions.

 

Crazy high-risk throws and disregard for his body. McD does not seem to talk with him during the game.

 

I say bring someone in that states by his side and keeps his head in check.

 

Fitz would be a perfect candidate!

Actually, on one such Allen run you could see McDermott pointing to his head and mouthing "use your head".

 

Josh just ignores what the coaches tell him.

 

I believe this is the way Josh will be throughout the remainder of his career.

[Dr.Sack]

He needs to stop losing winnable games. Note when up 7 let the other Allen close out the game by handing off the ball. 

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

In my opinion, this is the most interesting discussion on the forum right now.

 

Josh has the physical and the mental. But does he have the psychological element needed? Can this be taught? Who is going to teach it?

[LyndonvilleBill]

11 hours ago, Pirate Angel said:

Offseason options:
             a) watch tape, work out, bust ass to get better
              b) F#$% Hailey Steinfeld

which one would you chose? 

At my age, b.😁

 

At his age and $250m, a.

[Boatdrinks]

Right now, yes they probably do. Daboll may not have been perfect, but he was perfect for Allen. Had his ear and reined in his hero tendencies just enough. 

[DrBob806]

Hue Jackson was a QB Whisperer 😝

[Eastport bills]

Obviously Josh lost his composure for the 3rd time against the Jets defense. He let the adrenaline overload of the stadium, 1st game and pressure of being the face of the gunslinger QBs destroy his discipline of how to win in the NFL. He forgot to get down and not take punishment, ball security and throwing into low % completion coverages. I believe he will be much better for the foreseeable future. If that is the case, the dumpster fire against the Jets is a positive. He was crushed by his performance and letting his teammates down. If you believe in this guy, you know he’ll be fine.

[Returntoglory]

8 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

In my opinion, this is the most interesting discussion on the forum right now.

 

Josh has the physical and the mental. But does he have the psychological element needed? Can this be taught? Who is going to teach it?

Thanks 😉

[Returntoglory]

Much has changed with Josh in two short years.First, the massive new contract. Then his Breakup with his high school sweetheart. Now dating a Hollywood star. Multiple national TV Commercials and then finally, the Madden 24 cover.

 

Me thinks he has too many distractions that are having him take his eye off of the proverbial ball.

 

Add that with my previous post of not having a " QB Whisperer" and you get my point.

 

Too much too soon?

 

Or much to do about nothing and just leave Josh alone, he'll be fine.

 

 

[Low Positive]

Just now, Returntoglory said:

Much has changed with Josh in two short years.First, the massive new contract. Then his Breakup with his high school sweetheart. Now dating a Hollywood star. Multiple national TV Commercials and then finally, the Madden 24 cover.

 

Me thinks he has too many distractions that are having him take his eye off of the proverbial ball.

 

Add that with my previous post of not having a " QB Whisperer" and you get my point.

 

Too much too soon?

 

Or much to do about nothing and just leave Josh alone, he'll be fine.

 

 

None of that affects in-game decision-making. Teams have figured out his tendencies and are baiting him into throwing into coverage that he doesn't see. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

There was a very similar thread a few weeks ago and I wrote he wasnt putting in the work and got lambasted.  I said I was tired of hearing about how drunk he was getting and how many golf courses he has gone to.  I also wrote if he has a bad game or two to start the season all the posters claiming "he is young, let him have his freedom" will turn on him.

 

Classic and predictable.

 

As one of the ESPN blowhards said this morning, someone needs to have the courage to tell Josh to grow up.

Edited September 14, 2023 by RoyBatty is alive

[Returntoglory]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

None of that affects in-game decision-making. Teams have figured out his tendencies and are baiting him into throwing into coverage that he doesn't see. 

Could all the off the field happenings be distracting him ?

[stinky finger]

4 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

Much has changed with Josh in two short years.First, the massive new contract. Then his Breakup with his high school sweetheart. Now dating a Hollywood star. Multiple national TV Commercials and then finally, the Madden 24 cover.

 

Me thinks he has too many distractions that are having him take his eye off of the proverbial ball.

 

Add that with my previous post of not having a " QB Whisperer" and you get my point.

 

Too much too soon?

 

Or much to do about nothing and just leave Josh alone, he'll be fine.

 

 

Leaving him alone is not the answer.

 
He needs someone in his ear.

Edited September 14, 2023 by stinky finger

[Nelius]

Let’s not forget that his “high school sweetheart” who is so innocently portrayed this year started a screaming match that I believe required cop intervention the night before the Bengals game…

 

We should probably stop leaning on this as an example. Could be an area where Josh has even less distraction.

[Returntoglory]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

There was a very similar thread a few weeks ago and I wrote he wasnt putting in the work and got lambasted.  I said I was tired of hearing about how drunk he was getting and how many golf courses he has gone to.  I also wrote if he has a bad game or two to start the season all the posters claiming "he is young, let him have his freedom" will turn in him.

 

Classic and predictable.

I remember your post and it got me thinking too.

[Success]

I'll take "much ado about nothing" for now.

 

Nutty week 1 game w/ weird energy from the kickoff on, against the defense that Allen has traditionally had some of his biggest challenges with.

 

If we see more of the same on Sunday, I'll start to furrow my brow.  Right now, I'm stoked about how this team will look when JA starts locking in.  I think our defense could be right up there w/ the best this year, and if the offense can get clicking, we can go on quite a run (imo).

 

[boyst]

i think Gunner nailed it. he needs a shrink more than anything.

[Returntoglory]

Just now, Nelius said:

Let’s not forget that his “high school sweetheart” who is so innocently portrayed this year started a screaming match that I believe required cop intervention the night before the Bengals game…

 

We should probably stop leaning on this as an example. Could be an area where Josh has even less distraction.

Yeah. Dating a Hollywood starlet WOULD BE less of a distraction. Oh wait! Josh has mentioned that he can't believe all the attention he's getting over his new GF.

[MJS]

Joe Marino addressed this on his podcast and he brings up a good point. How do you really quantify that? How is it affecting his decision to throw the ball into double coverage or not? Is throwing into double coverage somehow caused by all those offseason things?

 

I don't really see how there can be a connection. None of that stuff really matters when you are on the field trying to make plays. He isn't thinking about the Madden cover when the ball is snapped to him, or his new girlfriend, etc.

 

Now, maybe it all adds up to something, but I don't see how we could measure that or definitively say it has some kind of effect. Allen appears to still be a good teammate, still practicing hard, etc.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Awesome; another Josh Bashing - something is not right thread.  As if there are not 100 of them already.

[Nelius]

Just now, Returntoglory said:

Yeah. Dating a Hollywood starlet WOULD BE less of a distraction. Oh wait! Josh has mentioned that he can't believe all the attention he's getting over his new GF.

Just saying the previous clearly wasn’t distraction free either. People toss around “high school sweetheart” like she was no issue whatsoever…other than you know the cops before a playoff game, etc

[DeltaDigital]

100% . kid from nowhere who's used to rejection getting massive love everywhere... hes only 26 or 27 years old... imagine the toll on his mental state? 

Nowhere cali kid + hollywood = bad combination.