Boogie traded to Giants

[Roundybout]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… a Crowder injury was sooo surprising. 
 

come on man. Try harder. 

Im trying to figure out how taking flyers on former high picks - exactly what one is supposed to do in free agency - is somehow a bad thing 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't even have a 2nd on Boogie. He went a full round before I had him graded. He did get some first round buzz in some quarters... I just never saw how he won at the NFL level. He only won in college by being a full grown 24 year old man mauling teenage boys. Limited speed. No bend. Bad hand usage. Poor technique. No rush moves. 

Me 2 I gave him a late 3rd / 4th rd grade! Absolutely horrible pick especially since we used our previous 2 high pks on the same position at DE. Horrible resource allocation McBeane is one of the worst in the league at drafting they hit a bunch of singles not much homers ! 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

His 2019 off-season was good… everything in between not so much… I mean the list is long:

 

Star Loulazylaz, Quinton Jefferson, OJ Howard, Trent Murphy, Vontae “im retiring at halftime” Davis, Saffold, Crowder, Vernon Butler, Josh Norman… even the Settle contract is ridiculous given his production.

 

The misses are FAR greater than the hits in FA… and Sam Martin?… you know it’s true when your putting a punter on your list as a positive.😅

 

Geezus you are so attracted to negativity it's amazing.

 

Every team, and I mean every team has a lot of swings and misses in the draft and FA.  Even Super Bowl Champs...even the dynasty Pats.

But you focus on every negative you can and try to hold it up like a shiny object.  You don't focus on a 53 man team, you focus on any miss.

 

Fact is this roster of 53 that he built has has the second most wins in the NFL in the last 3-4 years, only behind the Chiefs.  

And no, it's not only Josh Allen.  If you don't have a good team, even with a great QB, you aren't winning.  You become the Saints when Brees was their QB who missed the playoffs like 5 times in a weak NFC?  Matthew Stafford in Detroit.  

 

You talk as if Beane is a bottom dwelling GM.  

[Chaos]

13 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

I don’t see why it would as long as we keep winning double digit games and contend for a SB.

Final 8 is a bit short of “contending for the Super Bowl”

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

It was a forgone conclusion we would keep Shaq as a body while Von is on PUP, then he’s either PS or gone.  We had one to trade.  It was either Boogie or Epenesa.

 

We weren’t going to keep both as we most likely keep 5 interior.

 

So Beane has been working the angles for what he can get back for either and which one is he is easier to trade.  I’m not surprised by the trade, but disappointed Beane couldn’t have gotten something higher or a player.  It didn’t happen.

 

Its not a great situation, but Basham did flash at times, had 4.5 sacks last year, and was ok for a 2nd.

 

I guess that is up to Poona Ford making the team or not.  He hasn't exactly torn it up this summer.

[Airseven]

7 minutes ago, Coldfronts said:

Nothing a late round swap. The bills got shafted

 

Shafted how? Basham is worthless. Much like a lot of the Bills "depth."

[BillsfaninChicago]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Final 8 is a bit short of “contending for the Super Bowl”

Back in the drought era anything above 7-9 was considered Super Bowl contention. At least we are moving in the right direction. 

[1997WS6]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

For a moment ponder what the Bills would look like and what the prevailing opinion of McDermott and Beane would be had the Browns or Jets selected Allen in that draft. 

For a moment ponder what the Bills would look like and what the prevailing opinion of McDermott and Beane would be had they selected Josh Rosen in that draft. Like nearly everyone wanted them to.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

When is Beane going to be held accountable?

When the Buffalo Bills don’t make the playoffs is when both Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane will be held accountable by the Bills fans. Now being held accountable by the Bills owner Terry Pegula is another story all together when it comes to things like this. So add a couple more years to that. That will be when both McDermott and Beane are held accountable by the Bills owner. So hypothetically 2023 plus two years for Howard Hughes like Terry Pegula so 2025 at the earliest by using hypothetically formula I came up with in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited August 29, 2023 by I am leaving for good

[Warriorspikes51]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I guess that is up to Poona Ford making the team or not.  He hasn't exactly torn it up this summer.

Poona Ford has actually proven himself.  I think we keep 5 DT's and 5 DE's to start. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Poona Ford has actually proven himself.  I think we keep 5 DT's and 5 DE's to start. 

 

I guess I just didn't hear much about him.  I'm just not a fan of 10 DL.  9 is more to my liking.

[folz]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Last year the Jets drafted two All Pros in Round 1 and the Bills drafted a 4th string corner.  Allen is saving Beane's job right now.

 

You guys are just getting ridiculous now.

 

The Jets had three 1st round picks that year. #4 Overall, #10 Overall, and #26 Overall.

The Bills had one first round pick. #23 Overall.

 

A lot easier (better odds) to pick All-Pros when you have more picks (and 2 in the top 10), rather than picking 23rd. Are you seriously trying to intimate that if the roles were reversed, the Jets would have picked a stud/All-Pro at 23 and Beane would have nabbed three busts at 4, 10, and 26? 

 

If you guys actually took your "realist" blinders off and looked around the league, you'd see that other teams make mistakes too and that overall Beane has done a great job. We have a very talented team...it isn't just Josh Allen on his own (the new battle cry). I have no problem with people criticizing particular moves or players (like drafting Boogie or whatever), but the exaggeration of the so called "realists" has now placed you guys further into fantasy land than any Bills Homer.

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Final 8 is a bit short of “contending for the Super Bowl”

There are 32 teams in the league
If you finish eighth, while winning your division you had a good year

Just now, John from Riverside said:

There are 32 teams in the league
If you finish eighth, while winning your division you had a good year

I mean they’re drafting well, but they’re also getting better at bats because they missed the playoffs every year

 

 

[SCBills]

Just now, 1997WS6 said:

For a moment ponder what the Bills would look like and what the prevailing opinion of McDermott and Beane would be had they selected Josh Rosen in that draft. Like nearly everyone wanted them to.

 

They didn't though..

 

So much of a GM/HC success is based off hitting on a QB.  

 

Hit on a QB, and then all of a sudden the owner is willing to spend... build a contender and all of a sudden talented vet FA's are willing to sign for a bit less to play on your team... and so on...

 

If Beane didn't hit on Josh Allen, I highly doubt he or McDermott are still here.   And that's not an indictment on them.. it's just how it works.  

 

It's why Douglas/Salah really need Rodgers to work out, because they already blew it with Zack Wilson, despite all the other strong picks/decisions. 

[finn]

Just to be clear, Beane passed on Creed Humphrey, who was ALL PRO last year, to take a guy he's giving away for a box of tape. In 2025. 

 

Wow. 

 

 

[RyanC883]

48 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

And if Cleveland or Jets take Allen then Beane would have been out of a job last year. 

He got partially lucky drafting Allen. 

Since then he has pissed away several picks moving up for guys. His success rate is no better than average. If Elam is a bust he really starts to look bad. 

Can't miss on this many high round guys and stay competitive.  Oliver isn't even that good. Better hope Rousseau is a double digit sack guy this year. 

That said Kincaid and Torrence look good so far this year and maybe he found a late round gem in Bedford.

Just really hurts to invest this much into awful DL players. AJE probably doesn't even make the roster of a quarter of the NFL teams. 

Elam and Basham were the same mistake: chasing position of need over best football player available for your team.  

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There are 32 teams in the league
If you finish eighth, while winning your division you had a good year

I mean they’re drafting well, but they’re also getting better at bats because they missed the playoffs every year

 

 

Ryan exactly what did I say that you didn’t agree with

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

If Beane didn't hit on Josh Allen, I highly doubt he or McDermott are still here.   And that's not an indictment on them.. it's just how it works.  

 

Depends by how much they didn't hit, right? If they ended up with Rosen they are gone. I think if they had drafted Baker Mayfield they'd have made a couple more playoff appearances in a down AFC East post Brady. Would that have been enough to keep them in the job until now.... that is the question. If they'd made it twice in the past four seasons 2019-2022, rather than four times, and been bounced in the first round both times, I suspect they'd be gone.... but only just. 

[Success]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

I like Beane... but I will say that the early round trash pile has been growing around this team, and they need to start getting some mileage out of some of these guys or they will lose ground

 

Same.  And he certainly nails a lot of other picks, with particular luck in the later rounds.  

 

But we're at a point now w/ Allen's contract kicking in that early round misses are less acceptable.  There will always be misses - that's the draft.  But if you want to stay around as a top contender, they have to b rare.

 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Please lay out the conspiracy theory that the Bills were somehow using Carolina's draft board and Beane, who was not close to being employed by the Bills yet, was feeding another team info. Because the Panthers would have already taken this up with the NFL and the Bills would have lost draft picks if even a WHIFF of this nonsense was true.

Lol are you for real?  Are you aware that a guy name Sean McDermott was already employed by the Bills?  Te GM drafts, not the HC, you say?  So Rex didn’t draft Reggie Ragland and Adolphus Washington?  That was Whaley too?  

Is your real name Philip Barbay?

 

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Ryan exactly what did I say that you didn’t agree with

 

that finishing 8th is a successful season. When you have a QB of Allen’s caliber, and a future HOF WR, expectations are much higher than 8th, IMO.  

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, finn said:

Just to be clear, Beane passed on Creed Humphrey, who was ALL PRO last year, to take a guy he's giving away for a box of tape. In 2025. 

 

Wow. 

 

 

 

This one stings because it's one of the picks that really makes fans start to think they are smarter than those running the team. 

 

90% of the fanbase HATED this pick.  And not irrationally.. it was based off his measurables, tape, projection, upside etc..

 

Here we are, two years later, and we basically gave him away to save 1M. 

 

Very frustrating.  

 

[balln]

52 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm a Beane apologist because Beane was instrumental in bringing this team out of decades of mediocrity.  

 

But I can't defend him on Boogie.  It seemed an odd pick at the time: we had just picked Groot and Boogie was a DE who wasn't much a pass rusher.  I was guessing two things at the time.  (1)  Beane was so desperate for a DE that he picked two to double our chances of finding one good one.  (2)  He saw something in Basham that wasn't reflected in the tape or stats.  It seems, unfortunately, that whatever he saw was a mirage.  So Beane took what he could get in a trade.

 

Still, I'll give Beane some credit:  We have enough depth at DE that Boogie is expendable.  When Von gets healthy, we'll have a good group of DEs, thanks to Beane.  

Yea well they fall in love too ***** much these lunch pail 4th and 5th year senior ,good  attitude , hard working, senior bowl

darlings -  but athletically inferior / tweeners. None of these guys they pick have a position ! Basham was neither a DT or DE in the nfl ? 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol are you for real?  Are you aware that a guy name Sean McDermott was already employed by the Bills?  Te GM drafts, not the HC, you say?  So Rex didn’t draft Reggie Ragland and Adolphus Washington?  That was Whaley too?  

Is your real name Philip Barbay?

 

 

This is your real take? That the HCs do the drafting with no input from the GM or scouts?

 

Or is the reality that both the HC and GM work together to get the best talent that will also fit schemes? Otherwise you end up with a 1st round pick of a CB who can only play Man in a Zone-heavy system.

 

The 2017 draft was Whaley and McD. Not McD and Beane from behind a curtain in the Panthers draft room where he was currently employed.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

This one stings because it's one of the picks that really makes fans start to think they are smarter than those running the team. 

 

90% of the fanbase HATED this pick.  And not irrationally.. it was based off his measurables, tape, projection, upside etc..

 

Here we are, two years later, and we basically gave him away to save 1M. 

 

Very frustrating.  

 

 

Yea there have been just two total WTF early round picks from Beane for me..... Basham and Bernard. There have been other picks I didn't love.... thought we took Singletary and Moss both a round before I'd have taken them, I wasn't the biggest fan of Elam (took him half a round too early too), thought Harrison Phillips was a JAG, didn't love another early running back with Cook... but the two that genuinely never made any sense to me were Boogie and Bernard. 

 

It is the kind of pick the old Bills would have made. 

[frostbitmic]

2 hours ago, Gregg said:

So we give them Basham and move down in the draft in 2025 ?

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

This is your real take? That the HCs do the drafting with no input from the GM or scouts?

 

Or is the reality that both the HC and GM work together to get the best talent that will also fit schemes? Otherwise you end up with a 1st round pick of a CB who can only play Man in a Zone-heavy system.

 

The 2017 draft was Whaley and McD. Not McD and Beane from behind a curtain in the Panthers draft room where he was currently employed.

 

It was Whaley's draft board and his staff had prepared the scouting reports. McDermott was in total charge of the selections. 

[Coach Tuesday]

14 minutes ago, folz said:

 

You guys are just getting ridiculous now.

 

The Jets had three 1st round picks that year. #4 Overall, #10 Overall, and #26 Overall.

The Bills had one first round pick. #23 Overall.

 

A lot easier (better odds) to pick All-Pros when you have more picks (and 2 in the top 10), rather than picking 23rd. Are you seriously trying to intimate that if the roles were reversed, the Jets would have picked a stud/All-Pro at 23 and Beane would have nabbed three busts at 4, 10, and 26? 

 

If you guys actually took your "realist" blinders off and looked around the league, you'd see that other teams make mistakes too and that overall Beane has done a great job. We have a very talented team...it isn't just Josh Allen on his own (the new battle cry). I have no problem with people criticizing particular moves or players (like drafting Boogie or whatever), but the exaggeration of the so called "realists" has now placed you guys further into fantasy land than any Bills Homer.

 

No.

 

The point was about timing.  I was responding to a post about other teams catching up while the Bills' drafts have floundered.  Beane absolutely crapped the bed with the 2022 draft, and the jury is still out on the 2021 draft.  In the meantime, AFC competitors like the Chiefs and Jets have been nailing their drafts.  And now the bill on Allen's deal is coming due.  Yes all GMs have whiffs.  But Beane has picked a bad time to screw up his drafts, to say nothing about his numerous pro personnel misses.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, frostbitmic said:

So we give them Basham and move down in the draft in 2025 ?

 

 

No I think we move up in the draft.... either our 7th for their 6th or our 6th for their 5th at a guess. 

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

that finishing 8th is a successful season. When you have a QB of Allen’s caliber, and a future HOF WR, expectations are much higher than 8th, IMO.  

I have to agree here. The Bills exit from the playoffs last year was a lifeless thud- in a year that started with huge expectations. An AFC Championship game loss would have stung, but would have to be considered contending for a Super Bowl. Even a divisional loss to CIN could be considered acceptable if it was a closely contested game with a dramatic finish. Context matters here, and the Bills entire organization simply didn’t compete in a home playoff game. It can only be considered an embarrassment. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

No.

 

The point was about timing.  I was responding to a post about other teams catching up while the Bills' drafts have floundered.  Beane absolutely crapped the bed with the 2022 draft, and the jury is still out on the 2021 draft.  In the meantime, AFC competitors like the Chiefs and Jets have been nailing their drafts.  And now the bill on Allen's deal is coming due.  Yes all GMs have whiffs.  But Beane has picked a bad time to screw up his drafts, to say nothing about his numerous pro personnel misses.

If only Beane had taken Clyde Edwards Helaire in the first round we'd be Super Bowl bound no doubt

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was Whaley's draft board and his staff had prepared the scouting reports. McDermott was in total charge of the selections. 

 

Yes. I totally buy that for 2017, and it's the exact point I'm trying to make.

 

McD in NO WAY was in secret contact with Beane who was employed at Carolina.

[LEBills]

48 minutes ago, MPT said:

This feels like a favor to Schoen. Stashing him on the practice squad would have been more valuable than a late round pick two years from now.

Yea, basically Boogie was going to be cut. He would have been claimed by some team. Doing the late round pick swap is basically just a way to route Boogie to the preferred destination.  

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

This is your real take? That the HCs do the drafting with no input from the GM or scouts?

 

Or is the reality that both the HC and GM work together to get the best talent that will also fit schemes? Otherwise you end up with a 1st round pick of a CB who can only play Man in a Zone-heavy system.

 

The 2017 draft was Whaley and McD. Not McD and Beane from behind a curtain in the Panthers draft room where he was currently employed.

When Tre White got his extension and on a few occasions since, he mentioned how humbled and proud he was that he was the first selection “McDermott made”.  He was humbled to be the first cornerstone of the rebuild entrusted to Sean.  If you want to look….which clearly you don’t…..you can find many examples demonstrating Whaley was a lame duck at the time.  It’s simply a fact.

 

I liked Doug Whaley.  I think he did a very good job in certain aspects of the GM role but not all of them.  Ask yourself if it seems logical in any way that the same guy who was supposedly enamored with obvious busts like Adolphus Washington and Reggie Ragland would transform so quickly into a guy identifying Dawkins and Milano.  Does that make sense to you?

[par73]

3 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Zay (busted here), Cody Ford, Boogie, Epenesa.  So . . . Yeah.  We may plop Elam on the discard list pretty soon, too. 

Tough to miss on so many, especially high picks on defense. Add in Oliver-- who got the big contract, which is tough to understand, and Rousseau-- who has done next to nothing when Miller is not in the lineup. Best players are Floyd and Miller-- aging vets from other teams.

Two recent CB's-- Elam and Benford-- does not matter who wins the job-- neither will become elite. Defense is scary (esp when Miller is out)-- and not in a good way.

Edited August 29, 2023 by par73

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

When Tre White got his extension and on a few occasions since, he mentioned how humbled and proud he was that he was the first selection “McDermott made”.  He was humbled to be the first cornerstone of the rebuild entrusted to Sean.  If you want to look….which clearly you don’t…..you can find many examples demonstrating Whaley was a lame duck at the time.  It’s simply a fact.

 

I liked Doug Whaley.  I think he did a very good job in certain aspects of the GM role but not all of them.  Ask yourself if it seems logical in any way that the same guy who was supposedly enamored with obvious busts like Adolphus Washington and Reggie Ragland would transform so quickly into a guy identifying Dawkins and Milano.  Does that make sense to you?

 

I think we're just disagreeing on some details here.

 

Yes, the picks were ultimately made by McD. But he was using the scouting reports and player info provided by Whaley and his team of scouts.

 

The point I was refuting is this idea floating around that McD had some back-office channel to Beane, and Beane was feeding him info on players Beane liked.

 

If you want to call 2017 players McWhaley players, I agree with that. But Beane had 0 part in that draft or bringing in Poyer and Hyde.

 

With regards to Ragland vs Milano, Whaley also found Alonso, Nigel Bradham, and a few other decent late round LBs. That was like the ONE thing he was good at. The Ragland pick was the HC pushing him into picking a Thumper for his scheme, and he got the best Thumper available.

Edited August 29, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[uticaclub]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

When Tre White got his extension and on a few occasions since, he mentioned how humbled and proud he was that he was the first selection “McDermott made”.  He was humbled to be the first cornerstone of the rebuild entrusted to Sean.  If you want to look….which clearly you don’t…..you can find many examples demonstrating Whaley was a lame duck at the time.  It’s simply a fact.

 

I liked Doug Whaley.  I think he did a very good job in certain aspects of the GM role but not all of them.  Ask yourself if it seems logical in any way that the same guy who was supposedly enamored with obvious busts like Adolphus Washington and Reggie Ragland would transform so quickly into a guy identifying Dawkins and Milano.  Does that make sense to you?

GMs serve their coaches. Washington & Ragland fit the defense Rex wanted to build. Ragland also got hurt his rookie year.

[LEBills]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s not all Josh Allen, but it’s mostly Josh Allen… don’t think there another QB in the league that elevates their team more than he does. 
 

Never said Beane was a bad GM… he’s also not great and bordering on above average IMO. 

I think he is very good at the cap side of it, I think he leans on other people for the talent evaluation side of it and the actual draft pick results are not amazing. 

[Freddie's Dead]

Unreal that we couldn't even get a draft pick straight up for him.  What a colossal miss by McBeane. 

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I think we're just disagreeing on some details here.

 

Yes, the picks were ultimately made by McD. But he was using the scouting reports and player info provided by Whaley and his team of scouts.

 

The point I was refuting is this idea floating around that McD had some back-office channel to Beane, and Beane was feeding him info on players Beane liked.

 

If you want to call 2017 players McWhaley players, I agree with that. But Beane had 0 part in that draft or bringing in Poyer and Hyde.

I never mentioned Beane.  You did.

 

The types of players you mentioned…..Dawkins and Milano…..I added Tre……are clearly McDermott types.  Can you mention any other per-McDermott player that fits their mold?