Preseason is Meaningless, History Shows

[theRalph]

The panic that's ensued after the game Saturday night is amusing. On August 14, 2008, the Bills 'hosted' the Steelers at the Rogers Dome in Toronto.

 

The Bills jumped out to a 21-0 lead on the Steelers—running their starters off the field. The Bills eventually won 24-21. After starting hot, the Dick Jauron coached Bills went 7-9. The Steelers finished second in the AFC behind the Titans and went on to beat Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII.

 

Its.Preseason.Just.Stop.

[MikePJ76]

The old saying that they play these games to find out who is going to get hurt rings true every august

[HOUSE]

Now I can sleep tonight 

[Prospector]

4 minutes ago, theRalph said:

The panic that's ensued after the game Saturday night is amusing. On August 14, 2008, the Bills 'hosted' the Steelers at the Rogers Dome in Toronto.

 

The Bills jumped out to a 21-0 lead on the Steelers—running their starters off the field. The Bills eventually won 24-21. After starting hot, the Dick Jauron coached Bills went 7-9. The Steelers finished second in the AFC behind the Titans and went on to beat Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII.

 

Its.Preseason.Just.Stop.

I agree with this... I was more disappointed in what seemed like a bunch of guys just going through the motions, with little energy. Hopefully we come out with our hair on fire when the regular season starts.

[Doc Brown]

The main reason people are freaking out is all the concerns we had going into the season proved true on Saturday.  MLB and RT are a huge liability.  Dawkins play may be slipping and our defense looked old and slow on that long run play.

[The Frankish Reich]

I go with the old wisdom that you can't win any regular season games in the preseason, but you can lose some.

Exhibit: Nathaniel Hackett, Broncos 2022. Camp was a walk in the park, no important starters played at all in the preseason, the players (including a new QB) were utterly unprepared, and the regular season was a crap show.

But that's the preseason (camp/practice/"games") as a whole. I've not seen any evidence that the games themselves make any difference.

[Brand J]

Wins and losses in the preseason don’t matter, nor does the final score. But how the team arrives at that final score does carry some weight. Like Dion Dawkins type of weight. It was sobering seeing him get beat multiple times by a 4th round rookie. He just didn’t look good. Also sobering seeing our first round pick from last year - who was a healthy scratch at times - showing no real improvement and unable to unseat a couple of late round picks. MLB also looks like a dumpster fire.
 

Preseason doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things, but on an individual level you would like to see your starters play well before coming out, rather than reinforce the concerns many had coming into the game. 

[nucci]

the fact that the games don't count should tip you off.....not history

[Gregg]

Best example of how meaningless preseason is the 1996 New York Jets coached by Rich Kotite. They went undefeated in preseason and ended up 1-15 that season.

[Logic]

 

4 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Wins and losses in the preseason don’t matter, nor does the final score. But how the team arrives at that final score does carry some weight. Like Dion Dawkins type of weight. It was sobering seeing him get beat multiple times by a 4th round rookie. He just didn’t look good. Also sobering seeing our first round pick from last year - who was a healthy scratch at times - showing no real improvement and unable to unseat a couple of late round picks. MLB also looks like a dumpster fire.
 

Preseason doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things, but on an individual level you would like to see your starters play well before coming out, rather than reinforce the concerns many had coming into the game. 

This. 

The FINAL SCORE does not matter. This is true. 

However, you do want to see crisp execution, attention to detail, organization, cohesion on offense and defense, players winning individual matchups, and a general display of competence. 

The Bills during the drought often looked poor in all of the above areas in the preseason and -- wouldn't you know it -- they'd continue to look poor come the regular season. Conversely, the Sean McDermott Bills have tended to check all of the above boxes in the preseason in recent years, and that competence and effectiveness carried over into the regular season.

So...what are we to make of two straight weeks of sloppiness and lackluster play? Are the Bills going to magically flip a switch, stop committing 10 penalties a game, and start looking as talented and competent as they should? Maybe, maybe not, but it's a reasonable question to ask.

The outcome doesn't matter. The way the team performs en route to the meaningless outcome does matter.

 

[Franco_92]

13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The main reason people are freaking out is all the concerns we had going into the season proved true on Saturday.  MLB and RT are a huge liability.  Dawkins play may be slipping and our defense looked old and slow on that long run play.

But the RT point isn't even true, as film uncovered that Spencer Brown was largely fine despite being on TJ Watt's preferred side

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Best example of how meaningless preseason is the 1996 New York Jets coached by Rich Kotite. They went undefeated in preseason and ended up 1-15 that season.

I'll one-up you there. Detroit's 0-16 2008 season also had an undefeated preseason

[first_and_ten]

32 minutes ago, theRalph said:

The panic that's ensued after the game Saturday night is amusing. On August 14, 2008, the Bills 'hosted' the Steelers at the Rogers Dome in Toronto.

 

The Bills jumped out to a 21-0 lead on the Steelers—running their starters off the field. The Bills eventually won 24-21. After starting hot, the Dick Jauron coached Bills went 7-9. The Steelers finished second in the AFC behind the Titans and went on to beat Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII.

 

Its.Preseason.Just.Stop.

 

I had to tell myself over and over again, just that. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

Agreed some fans get wigged out about bad play in the preseason, and its understandable to a point. But as it was stated by another poster Pittsburgh game planned for this game and I think in part because of the whooping we put on them last year.  The OL wasn't as bad as some made it out to be and the only 2 concerns I had was Josh not seeing a wide open Diggs again and the penalties.  I believe this will be shored up and much better by the opener. 

[jkeerie]

Just watched Greg Cosell on One Bills Live.  He offered some good perspective.  First off, he agreed with Steve that the Bills were not mentally in the game, which obviously hurt.  He is concerned about Brown on the right side but not panicking.  He loves Van Demark.  Says he didn't have a bad play.  He played LT for 4 years in college.  Question is if he can play on the right side.  He also loves Gouraige and was surprised he went undrafted.  Also said he didn't have a bad play in the game.  

 

Defensively, he thinks that Klein will get the nod at MLB because of his experience.  He eventually thinks that Dorian Williams will end up on the field because of his athleticism.  He loved him coming out of Tulane and has been impressed with him in the preseason.  

 

He also commented on Shorter.  Thinks he's going to be good.  

[RobbRiddick]

Well all I know is Stevw Spurriers Redskins teams were an unstoppable machine in the preseason and they always ended up carrying over their form into the regular season

[Simon Says]

49 minutes ago, theRalph said:

The panic that's ensued after the game Saturday night is amusing. On August 14, 2008, the Bills 'hosted' the Steelers at the Rogers Dome in Toronto.

 

The Bills jumped out to a 21-0 lead on the Steelers—running their starters off the field. The Bills eventually won 24-21. After starting hot, the Dick Jauron coached Bills went 7-9. The Steelers finished second in the AFC behind the Titans and went on to beat Arizona in Super Bowl XLIII.

 

Its.Preseason.Just.Stop.

Funny how Greg Cosell just told this story on OneBills Live

[SoonerBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Just watched Greg Cosell on One Bills Live.  He offered some good perspective.  First off, he agreed with Steve that the Bills were not mentally in the game, which obviously hurt.  He is concerned about Brown on the right side but not panicking.  He loves Van Demark.  Says he didn't have a bad play.  He played LT for 4 years in college.  Question is if he can play on the right side.  He also loves Gouraige and was surprised he went undrafted.  Also said he didn't have a bad play in the game.  

 

Defensively, he thinks that Klein will get the nod at MLB because of his experience.  He eventually thinks that Dorian Williams will end up on the field because of his athleticism.  He loved him coming out of Tulane and has been impressed with him in the preseason.  

 

He also commented on Shorter.  Thinks he's going to be good.  

I really like Greg Cosell, and respect his opinion.

[Royale with Cheese]

 

[LABILLBACKER]

33 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The main reason people are freaking out is all the concerns we had going into the season proved true on Saturday.  MLB and RT are a huge liability.  Dawkins play may be slipping and our defense looked old and slow on that long run play.

I'm not going to panic but I'm also not going to ignore the penalties, the OT concerns or who the hell will play LB next to Milano. The incessant Diggs drama, mostly manufactured by the media, will just have to play out.  

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Well all I know is Stevw Spurriers Redskins teams were an unstoppable machine in the preseason and they always ended up carrying over their form into the regular season

You play how you practice. If you can’t take practice seriously, it will eventually bleed over into game day. 

[Unforgiven]

24 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Agreed some fans get wigged out about bad play in the preseason, and its understandable to a point. But as it was stated by another poster Pittsburgh game planned for this game and I think in part because of the whooping we put on them last year.  The OL wasn't as bad as some made it out to be and the only 2 concerns I had was Josh not seeing a wide open Diggs again and the penalties.  I believe this will be shored up and much better by the opener. 

I'm wigged out over barely beating miami and get punched out by the bengals.

[GunnerBill]

Of course I agree, pre-season doesn't really matter. But worth reflecting during the period we have been contenders under this regime we had won 11 of our last 12 pre-season games. 

 

So a blow out like that is cause for people to just take pause on where we are at. Because penalty laden, sloppy perfomances have not been the pre-season norm here.

[theRalph]

16 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

Funny how Greg Cosell just told this story on OneBills Live

That was me...not Cosell. I was on right after.

[ngbills]

You look at the pieces of preseason games not the results. Who cares if your team wins, but you want your starters to look good in the few drives they have. You want the rookie to impress you. The battle for a position watch. You dont want dumb mistakes. A rookie to look lost. The new player not looking like an upgrade. A player returning from an injury looking slow. 

Dalton Kincaid has looked the part. So has Torrence.

The false starts and penalties are concerning. The lack of preparation as well.

Gabe Davis looks healthy. 

Cook does not look ready to carry the load. At least we have a decent RB room.

Our new WR additions have not stood out. Harty and Sherfield have a few plays here and there but expected more. 

OL troubles have become more alarming than eased. 

We have a lot of capable guys on DL. 

MLB is a huge concern. Especially when our DB's look slow. 

The special teams game has not be stellar. 

And so forth. Scores dont matter, but that stuff does. 

[FilthyBeast]

I think most people understand that you can't get too high or low of a preseason game, but the valid concerns I would have are as follows:

 

1) It still seems like this team has an attitude/arrogance that they can simply put it altogether when they need to even though that's been proven false, in a big way last year in the playoffs. If you have accomplished what the Chiefs have it's one thing to not take preseason seriously are put out a performance like that.

2) This team was fundamentally bad across the board on Saturday, both offense and defense, starters and backups. This is a reflection of coaching no matter what way you spin it and it's apparent this team is obviously running soft mickey mouse practices if anything to avoid injuries.

3) All the holes on the roster that critics have identified were on full display in the worst possibly way (MLB, RT, backup QB, etc). This if anything is the big takeaway everyone should be honing in on because it does matter what we are seeing in preseason against other legit NFL players.

 

With that said, everyone should not be ready to jump off the ledge yet until this team starts playing games that actually count and still plenty of time to right the ship (and hopefully find adequate veteran help at certain positions).

[SoonerBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

I'm wigged out over barely beating miami and get punched out by the bengals.

That was regular season after this team went through possibly the toughtest season mentally that a team has ever faced. The playoff result wasn't unexpected to me.

[ngbills]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Of course I agree, pre-season doesn't really matter. But worth reflecting during the period we have been contenders under this regime we had won 11 of our last 12 pre-season games. 

 

So a blow out like that is cause for people to just take pause on where we are at. Because penalty laden, sloppy perfomances have not been the pre-season norm here.

Worse preseason performance in quite a number of years. And game 2 is when starters play the most so you expect some solid play. Last year it was the 42-15 win vs DEN when Josh led a 70 yd TD drive and was done. Bills led 28-6 at half with TD's on all 4 drives. 

[Airseven]

The game was meaningful. Not to draw conclusions in isolation, but in the sense it added to the greater story. It was yet another example justifying ongoing concerns about, for example, OL, MLB, and Elam. That’s where the frustration comes from.

[dorquemada]

It's the malaise that's frustrating.  We have to trust that they'll be sharp on opening night but it's a coin flip with this crew, which is 100% coaching. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I just noticed the Bills had 10 players on offense to start the preseason game vs Pittsburgh. That should tell you everything about the Bills preparedness for the game.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

It's the malaise that's frustrating.  We have to trust that they'll be sharp on opening night but it's a coin flip with this crew, which is 100% coaching. 

 

McDermott really needs to "coach" these vets about false starts, Offside and grabbing jerseys are against the rules.

It's really puzzling that none of the peewee, high school and college coaches went over that with them.

 

Maybe the coaches should implement daily "suicide sprints" for anyone flagged from the previous week.  Worked for me in freshman basketball.

LOL.

[BillsfaninSB]

[ddaryl]

I think the preseason with starters just showed that we need a lot of work before the season.

Without preseason do they even realize they need a wakeup call ?

 

Preseason don't count but how can the team actually realize what is working and what is not without some action against someone else besides the same ol same ol every practice.

Preseason serves a very important purpose IMO

 

[dorquemada]

13 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

McDermott really needs to "coach" these vets about false starts, Offside and grabbing jerseys are against the rules.

It's really puzzling that none of the peewee, high school and college coaches went over that with them.

 

Maybe the coaches should implement daily "suicide sprints" for anyone flagged from the previous week.  Worked for me in freshman basketball.

LOL.

 

You're so close to getting the point

 

Obviously certain players aren't worried about getting penalized over and over again.  Maybe some of those same players would benefit from a few days of suicide sprints.

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

39 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

McDermott really needs to "coach" these vets about false starts, Offside and grabbing jerseys are against the rules.

It's really puzzling that none of the peewee, high school and college coaches went over that with them.

 

Maybe the coaches should implement daily "suicide sprints" for anyone flagged from the previous week.  Worked for me in freshman basketball.

LOL.

I have to believe the Vets would just laugh at Sean and say nope. Then call the NFLPA and report him. THEN we get to see what a national media crap storm against the Organization looks like.

[jwhit34]

The 1990 Bills went 0-4 in the preseason. We all know what happened that year...

 

Maybe we should check to see how Norwood kicked in the preseason.

 

 

[That's No Moon]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

The main reason people are freaking out is all the concerns we had going into the season proved true on Saturday.  MLB and RT are a huge liability.  Dawkins play may be slipping and our defense looked old and slow on that long run play.

But I'm told the fans don't know anything and the front office always knows best.

[Eastport bills]

This is a characteristic of this message board that is contradictory to the incredibly loyal fan base we have. There is a smoldering undercurrent of negativity waiting to swoop down on the smallest crack in what has been a great run albeit lacking a ring. I noticed a disorganized and undisciplined performance by our O -line and missed tackles by our defense, but isn’t that to be expected early in the preseason? I don’t believe there’s a carryover from the Bengals game. It’s a new season. You have to believe these coaches will get these guys ready for the Jets. They’ve been money in the regular season for the last several years.