Cap Dollars - Von Miller or FA OL improvement

[LabattBlue]

If you had the opportunity to go back in time, do you use the massive cap hit of  Von Miller on the OL instead?

 

I have always been of the belief that you need to do everything you can to protect your franchise QB, and if that means the defense takes a hit because of it, then so be it. 
 

I’ll take my chances hoping a better OL means Allen can outscore anyone versus trying to make the pass rush better. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by LabattBlue

[Einstein]

I made this point a year ago and was bashed for it. Oh how the turntables turn.

 

Another one that I have regretted since the signing: We gave Oliver, a decidedly mediocre player, $68M. For $3.8M more per year (over 5 years), we could have signed a very good Tackle in Mike McGlinchey. 

Sigh.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Oline all day!

 

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

Oline. Just out score everyone. Get a 1B wr to pair with Diggs. 
 

Above average Oline, 1B wr, and Kincaid means Super Bowl. It’s exactly why I wanted to sign Hopkins. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Araiza Curse

[Pokebball]

As it's turned out, definitely O line. However, we saw what a healthy Von Miller could mean to our defense. It's hard to be critical of the decision at the time.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Pokebball

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I made this point a year ago and was bashed for it. Oh how the turntables turn.

 

Another one that I have regretted since the signing: We gave Oliver, a decidedly mediocre player, $68M. For $3.8M more per year (over 5 years), we could have signed a very good Tackle in Mike McGlinchey. 

Sigh.

 

getting Miller and the tackle both would be ideal.   Keeping Oliver is a head scratcher. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’m signing Von over pretty much everyone. Not even thinking twice.

 

They could’ve upgrade the OGs last year and signed Von. Even if they drafted one like they did Torrence this year. Drafting an OT to compete with Brown would’ve been smart also.

 

 I do think the OL is upgraded though and it will show. We can’t really take anything from that Steelers game.

[Rc2catch]

I think Von was the right move still at that time.
The bigger issue imo would be why they can never seem to develop the talent they bring in (other than cornerbacks) starting O line should not be a free agent need nor should pass rush given the players drafted over the years, but they can’t develop the talent they’ve drafted and the free agents haven’t exactly crushed it. I’m not as doom and gloom as most though, as the team sits right now I’m still positive about the season and hoping to see some of these guys progress. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think Von was the right move still at that time.
The bigger issue imo would be why they can never seem to develop the talent they bring in (other than cornerbacks) starting O line should not be a free agent need nor should pass rush given the players drafted over the years, but they can’t develop the talent they’ve drafted and the free agents haven’t exactly crushed it. I’m not as doom and gloom as most though, as the team sits right now I’m still positive about the season and hoping to see some of these guys progress. 

Not a whole lot to develop. Dawkins developed well as a 2nd rounder. Cody ford was a bust. Brown is trying to fix inconsistencies, we’ll see. Torrence too early.
 

Thats about it for quality draft picks used on OL. 
 

Brown isn’t a complete disaster. At times he looks the part and other times he gets walked.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Process]

Von is not the problem. Elite talent is what this team needs more of. 

 

Going 5 deep at DT with all vets. Oliver. Knox. Poyer. Morse. Money going to aging /average players. Consistently throwing 2nd and 3rd round picks in the trash can. That's what is hurting us. 

[Brand J]

I think about the game against the Chiefs last year and how it would’ve went if we didn’t have Von. The Bills lose that game. He’s a HoF pass rusher still playing at a very high level (or at least was), so I voted Von. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

I made this point a year ago and was bashed for it. Oh how the turntables turn.

 

Another one that I have regretted since the signing: We gave Oliver, a decidedly mediocre player, $68M. For $3.8M more per year (over 5 years), we could have signed a very good Tackle in Mike McGlinchey. 

Sigh.

 

Oliver is a better player than McGlinchey. 

[Mr. WEO]

A guy like Miller can change the outcome of any game.  

 

One HOF lineman really can't.  

[NewEra]

I’ll take von.  He’s a true difference maker and wins games.  See KC last year. 
 

I’ll take an OT over Ed

 

the question is, which OT?  I wouldn’t want Orlando or Jawaan at their price tags.  Same for McGlinchy.  

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I think about the game against the Chiefs last year and how it would’ve went if we didn’t have Von. The Bills lose that game. He’s a HoF pass rusher still playing at a very high level (or at least was), so I voted Von. 

100%.  

[NewEra]

Lots of bad takes in here.  Per usual

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’ll take von.  He’s a true difference maker and wins games.  See KC last year. 
 

I’ll take an OT over Ed

 

the question is, which OT?  I wouldn’t want Orlando or Jawaan at their price tags.  Same for McGlinchy.  

Ed was still going to make big money this year playing his 5th year option, which above average OT could we have signed for little to no cap space this off-season? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I wasn’t a fan of the von overpay.
 

To me at this point the defense looks like this… 

 

1) old, slow and expensive. 27, 23, 21, 40, 56

2) Underachieving, the string of high picks we are still waiting to see live up to their expectations. 91, 24, 55, 57, 43, 42

 

and

 

3) we are left hoping some journeymen and late pick overachievers can hold everything together 58, 30, 7, 47, 53, 92, 97, 99
 

[Rigotz]

Ah, revisionist history after one bad preseason game, fun.

 

Ok, let’s go back in time.
 

At the beginning of last season, did you feel comfortable having AJ Epenesa as your starting Defensive End across from Groot with Boogie and Shaq as backups?

 

Sure you did…. and I’m sure everyone also thought signing an expensive Right Tackle and sending our 3rd round pick, who showed upside in his rookie year, right to the bench.

 

Who needs a half of fame DE when you can have Epenesa as your starter coming off 2.5 sacks his first two years?

 

Beane made the right move, it just didn’t work out because Brown didn’t take a step and Von got hurt. Don’t play this stupid revisionist history game.

[Norcalbillsfan]

Not a fan of hindsight stuff like this, when we were trying to sign von we were not a OT away from the SB, we were a game impacting pass rusher away from a SB. 

 

It's really easy to look back after vons injury and think O line would have been better move. But if von stayed healthy we probably aren't having this conversation.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I was anti-Miller when it wasn't cool

 

Signing an over 30 DE is just bad cap management

 

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Ed was still going to make big money this year playing his 5th year option, which above average OT could we have signed for little to no cap space this off-season? 

Thanks for answering my question with the same question.

[BigDingus]

If this was pre-Von Miller signing, I'd easily have said OL. 

Out of all my posts the last few years, I think I've b*tched about OL the most. I'm glad others came around to it last year, but at this point, we have Von signed so we may as well ride it out. 

 

I don't think he was ever going beyond the 3 years, so we'll have to address the OL in other ways.

[Buddy Hix]

I predicted Miller wouldn’t get 20 sacks in his Bills career and hated the cap hit for a guy his age. I stand by my thoughts from when Miller was signed.

[Einstein]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oliver is a better player than McGlinchey. 

 

I completely disagree.

Independent graders (such as PFF), also disagree with that assertion.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

I completely disagree.

Independent graders (such as PFF), also disagree with that assertion.

 

Yea they always used to love Roger Saffold too. I told everyone for a decade he was overrated. McGlinchy is the same. I think he will struggle for the Broncos. He doesn't suck. But he isn't as good as his rep.

[billybob71]

and we are not sure Miller gonna be at the same level when he comes back, lets hope so

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea they always used to love Roger Saffold too. I told everyone for a decade he was overrated. McGlinchy is the same. I think he will struggle for the Broncos. He doesn't suck. But he isn't as good as his rep.

 

My opinion on McGlinchy is that he is an excellent run blocker, which is something we desperately need. He is a bulldozer. This made him a great fit for the 49ers and their strong run game. He is huge (6’8) and is essentially a better Spencer Brown. He is not a great pass blocker but he is significantly better than Brown.

 

My opinion on Oliver is that he is an average DT that has flashes of greatness but can never sustain those flashes. When he isn’t battling injuries, and isn’t flashing greatness for short bursts, he is being pushed around by larger, stronger offensive linemen. He rarely makes key moment stops and never makes game changing plays. He is a slightly above average player that I have never been able to understand fans fascination with.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

24 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Ah, revisionist history after one bad preseason game, fun.

 

Ok, let’s go back in time.
 

At the beginning of last season, did you feel comfortable having AJ Epenesa as your starting Defensive End across from Groot with Boogie and Shaq as backups?

 

Sure you did…. and I’m sure everyone also thought signing an expensive Right Tackle and sending our 3rd round pick, who showed upside in his rookie year, right to the bench.

 

Who needs a half of fame DE when you can have Epenesa as your starter coming off 2.5 sacks his first two years?

 

Beane made the right move, it just didn’t work out because Brown didn’t take a step and Von got hurt. Don’t play this stupid revisionist history game.

it is not revisionist to say see signing a 34 DE to a 6yr $120m deal was a questionable idea given the state of the roster. 
 

There has been a pattern lately of overpaying over the hill. McDermott calling the plays for this squad might derail his once promising rise. The one non-hysterical take away from the game is MLB is a weak link, the secondary is slow and Elam looks to be failing down the depth chart. 

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea they always used to love Roger Saffold too. I told everyone for a decade he was overrated. McGlinchy is the same. I think he will struggle for the Broncos. He doesn't suck. But he isn't as good as his rep.

Rodger Saffold, Tier 4 “Solid starter” last year.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-offensive-guard-rankings-tiers

 

I have been concerned about Brown but it doesn’t sound like he wasn’t that bad last night.  What did you see?

[Billl]

51 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Ed was still going to make big money this year playing his 5th year option, which above average OT could we have signed for little to no cap space this off-season? 

Donovan Smith signed for one year, $3m.

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

getting Miller and the tackle both would be ideal.   Keeping Oliver is a head scratcher. 

Oliver’s contract puts him as a middle of the pack DT. That is one of the positions that teams are having to overpay for right now, so it is not a head scratcher to me. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

If you had the opportunity to go back in time, do you use the massive cap hit of  Von Miller on the OL instead?

 

I have always been of the belief that you need to do everything you can to protect your franchise QB, and if that means the defense takes a hit because of it, then so be it. 
 

I’ll take my chances hoping a better OL means Allen can outscore anyone versus trying to make the pass rush better. 

That should've been the plan from day 1 (2018).  Even this year with the guard upgrades we still have huge issues on the outside. And once the dust settles it's likely we'll have another 25th rated OL.  I love the idea of acquiring Von but if he's going to break down it will be a disaster as his cap could've gone to OL.  We'll see?

[Nephilim17]

Why does it have to be a binary choice — get the other teams QB or protect out QB? 

I think you need to do both when you expect to play Mahomes and Burrow in the regular season and playoffs.

 

The question should be, IMHO, where did we misspend dollars that could've gone towards the o-line? 

 

This might catch flak, but I wonder if paying an aging Diggs $28 million in the next three years is the right play.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Rodger Saffold, Tier 4 “Solid starter” last year.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-offensive-guard-rankings-tiers

 

I have been concerned about Brown but it doesn’t sound like he wasn’t that bad last night.  What did you see?

 

I didn't think he was "that bad". I thought he was kinda himself. A couple of big whiffs a couple of good plays, some in between. I think the issue is that feels like it is every week. I'd like some weeks where he elminates the bad plays.

[CincyBillsFan]

We won't really be able to intelligently answer this question until after this season.  How soon does Miller get back and what is his impact when he does.  At the same time our O line isn't going into look like it did last night.

 

So TODAY I would say the money should have gone to the O line.  But I reserve the right to change my mind as this season goes along.

 

 

 

 

 

[Einstein]

19 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Rodger Saffold, Tier 4 “Solid starter” last year.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-offensive-guard-rankings-tiers

 

I have been concerned about Brown but it doesn’t sound like he wasn’t that bad last night.  What did you see?

That was the rankings for 2 years ago. Last year, PFF had Saffold with one of the worst OL grades in the entire NFL.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

That was the rankings for 2 years ago. Last year, PFF had Saffold with one of the worst OL grades in the entire NFL.

Yes, I know that.  I didn’t word it right.

 

However, he was graded as a solid starter by PFF even though he was terrible in his last year with the Titans.  He’s been terrible for a few years.

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I was anti-Miller when it wasn't cool

 

Signing an over 30 DE is just bad cap management

 

It’s still not cool. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It's not the dollars its the players they've signed.  Bills have invested plenty of money in the OL. Spain, Saffold, Dawkins extension, matching Bates offer sheet, and overpaying for Morse. 

The real screw up was not drafting young OL instead of Basham and the smurfs.