Beane to blame

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

I’ll remind you of that statement after the game. Other teams fans would kill a relative for our record the last 3 seasons since Josh got good. Be optimistic instead whining after a preseason game.

Where's my pair of rose colored glasses that everyone else seems to have gotten.  No fair....

[BillzFreak]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Where's my pair of rose colored glasses that everyone else seems to have gotten.  No fair....

Wait so being positively optimistic is wearing rose colored glasses now? Honestly if that's how you respond to someone being positive about there football team then I feel bad for you bud. Hopefully you get a big hug from someone you like being around and feel better. ✌️

[Milanos Milano]

42 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

why because he has a competent coach and FO?

 

It really is amazing these guys got Josh, while simultaneously getting so much else wrong.

 

I’ve been one of the hardest on Beane. I know yesterday was a preseason game and it doesn’t really mean much. But it was just flat out embarrassing. I sometimes ask myself why I’m a Bills fan. A talented team on all tiers shouldn’t roll over the way they do at times, especially the Cinci game. 

[QLBillsFan]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Point by point:

 

1.  I am a believer that you win up front.   The Bills have not been in a position to draft a top end tackle because of the success they've had - most of those guys go in the top of the first round.  Brown had a tough outing yesterday from what I'm reading (haven't watched the game yet).  But you can't blame a GM for not being Nostradamus when you go out and get a veteran who's started in the league as competition, and he decides to retire.  So it was not a joke.  I think we're either going to see another T brought in this week, or we may see the Dutch kid get the start.  

 

2.  I am wondering if Dawkins may be suffering from long Covid effects myself.  If so, the medical staff needed to alert Beane.  But I think Dawkins will be OK.  we should prioritize drafting a T next year though.

 

3.  If Poyer leaves in free agency who do you have to replace him?  No one knew if Hamlin could or would play again.  And we hadn't even sniffed at Rapp yet.  Poyer will also be fine.  He may have lost a step, but veterans make up for that with their understanding of where plays are going.  So I am not panicking over one run in a pre-season game.  

 

4.  Without Oliver you would have had 1 DT under contract next year.  One.  Oliver will also be fine, everyone was expecting the second coming of Donald.

 

5.  Elam needs to learn zone concepts more and quit grabbing as much.  It is the beginning of his second season in the league and he's still got things to learn.   We have 4 corners that can play in the NFL which is more than many teams can say.

1. SB we were told was hurt last year. Ok this year he still hasn’t been good. BB could have used FA $ or the 1st or 2nd pick to grab a RT. He did not. Bringing in a vet super late was not solving the problem. 
2. Apparently you have some medical knowledge the Bills don’t on DD. We can safety assume the medical staff and McBeane communicate??? Yikes. DD is once again out of shape. That’s on he and the Bills. 
4. DT depth for next year are not as critical as  the RT position this year!! Oliver got well over his value imho and those $ could have good to either a starting RT, or a very good veteran swing OT. Right now we have neither and it’s on BB. 

[Milanos Milano]

18 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Almost a day later and I still don't care how ugly last night's game was. There's way too much talent on the bills to be as bad as they were last night. I'm fully confident they get it figured out. 

“Talent” doesn’t get rolled the way we do sometimes. People give Beane credit for all this supposed talent, but I’m not seeing the desired results that we should expect. 

[par73]

They should have done more to address the loss of Edmunds (instead of thinking they had an answer with Bernard, or career backup, Dodson). Also, OT-- just based on play last year,i t was very clear that this was an issue. Unfortunately, they did not see the need to bring in someone who could truly compete with the starters.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

1. SB we were told was hurt last year. Ok this year he still hasn’t been good. BB could have used FA $ or the 1st or 2nd pick to grab a RT. He did not. Bringing in a vet super late was not solving the problem. 
2. Apparently you have some medical knowledge the Bills don’t on DD. We can safety assume the medical staff and McBeane communicate??? Yikes. DD is once again out of shape. That’s on he and the Bills. 
4. DT depth for next year are not as critical as  the RT position this year!! Oliver got well over his value imho and those $ could have good to either a starting RT, or a very good veteran swing OT. Right now we have neither and it’s on BB. 

I am watching the game on replay right now.  Brown got beat once thus far on the play where he held.  Other than that he’s been fine even against Watt.  So as I figured it is confirmation bias.

 

if you are just going off last night if there’s a tackle issue it’s Dawkins, not Brown.

Edited August 20, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Eastport bills]

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Where's my pair of rose colored glasses that everyone else seems to have gotten.  No fair....

Are you a Dodger fan? If so look at how they turned low expectations to overachievement. That’s the hope with the us.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, CNYfan said:

Elam was bad last night and that looks like it is going to be a disappointment.  

Dion is not in good shape and is in decline.

The Epinesa/Basham draft was not properly themed or executed (IMO).  

The Bernard 3rd Rounder also appears to be a failure.  

 

Kincaid and Torrence look good and C. McGovern performed well last night.  

 

 

McGovern performed "well".

 

Seumalo performed GREAT.

 

Still perplexed about how that UFA went down.    Seumalo was probably the best pass blocking guard in the NFL by the end of last season and gets just a few shillings more than the relatively unproven McGovern.

 

No doubt, the Steelers had a sneaky great offseason on the heels of a very impactful draft in 2022.   

[LabattBlue]

McD, BB & Dorsey expect Allen to cover up all the other problems with the team.  Big mistake.  They will end up shortening his career by years. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Look it was a bad game but it’s preseason how much of that was just not trying, just being vanilla, etc…who honestly knows.

Matt Milano who is as good in coverage as any LB in football was totally lost on the TD pass in the regular season I doubt that happens.

The concerning things to me are OT and MLB.

Every single pass play Brown or Dawkins had someone in Josh’s face. The Guard play was pretty good. 
The long TD run Dodson was the contain and he frankly hit the wrong hole badly. 
I will say though Elam is looking more and more like Beane missed badly on even though It looks like he hit on Bedford. 

[Dopey]

7 hours ago, balln said:

Is anyone else thinking this team was grossly mismanaged by beane ?

 

The double down on Spencer brown with no depth or drafting (shell signing and retiring is a joke)

 

just saying yea Dion dawkins is the starter - giving no competition to that fat slug. The wing eating contest at practice thing during playoffs or end of season was a wtf moment. Go back and watch cincy playoff game. Dawkins was worse than spencer

 

everyone and their mother would have let an aging / battle injured safety just go in FA. But instead we sign him back. Poyer starts getting beat w speed more and more. Every kc game , and Mia game it’s glaring 

 

everyone and their mother would not have extended Ed Oliver . My god he’s a liability on most plays. 

 

The elam first round pick! Enough said. can’t get on the field 

 

the investments both high draft picks and FA signings to the DL with poor return 

No. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, 78thealltimegreat said:

Look it was a bad game but it’s preseason how much of that was just not trying, just being vanilla, etc…who honestly knows.

Matt Milano who is as good in coverage as any LB in football was totally lost on the TD pass in the regular season I doubt that happens.

The concerning things to me are OT and MLB.

Every single pass play Brown or Dawkins had someone in Josh’s face. The Guard play was pretty good. 
The long TD run Dodson was the contain and he frankly hit the wrong hole badly. 
I will say though Elam is looking more and more like Beane missed badly on even though It looks like he hit on Bedford. 

Dawkins was bad.  I just watched the entire first half; Brown got beat one time and he held on the play.  It looks like Brown is going to replace Edmunds as the punching bag.

[The Frankish Reich]

7 hours ago, balln said:

The double down on Spencer brown with no depth or drafting

Brown is a puffed up TE. Put on 80 lbs (!) in college ahead of the shift to T.

Or to be more accurate, a puffed up 6'8" basketball/baseball/TE/DL player. A project, both when he was drafted and today. He may be adequate of even good someday. If I were the Texans HC I'd have given him the starting RT job right out of his rookie camp. 

We are not the Texans, hoping to compete by Brown's 3rd or 4th season. Wrong player for a win-now team.

[Thrivefourfive]

You know what Dawkins is suffering from? Genetics. He’s a huge man, and doesn’t seem to have the natural freak physical attributes that the better huge men offensive lineman have—Big and fat, but quick and never tired. He’s a guy that would easily weigh 450lbs if he didn’t have a physically active job. I’m sure covid doesn’t help a body type like Dawkins.

[Matt_In_NH]

Other GMs hit on all their picks 

[BufBills83]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

We don't have a RT, Dawkins regressed the last few years, Poyer wanted out of Buffalo but didn't get any other offers. Eric Washington didn't have anything good to say about Oliver but we extended him anyway We peaked with McDermott & Beane, tear it down & try again. It was a good run

Stop

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I am watching the game on replay right now.  Brown got beat once thus far on the play where he held.  Other than that he’s been fine even against Watt.  So as I figured it is confirmation bias.

 

if you are just going off last night if there’s a tackle issue it’s Dawkins, not Brown.

It’s 100% both

59 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McGovern performed "well".

 

Seumalo performed GREAT.

 

Still perplexed about how that UFA went down.    Seumalo was probably the best pass blocking guard in the NFL by the end of last season and gets just a few shillings more than the relatively unproven McGovern.

 

No doubt, the Steelers had a sneaky great offseason on the heels of a very impactful draft in 2022.   

Yep they invest in the lines. Broderick Jones and Seumalo. Added Benton on the D line who can step right in for Heyward probably when he’s gone. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

It’s 100% both

Again, I just watched every snap they played focusing on them.  Brown was not bad except for the one play he held in.  He did fine with Watt.  Try watching objectively.

3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Other GMs hit on all their picks 

Name one

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Name one

Has to be sarcasm.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Has to be sarcasm.

The day after a loss, even in preseason, it’s hard to know.  Let’s hope so.

[uticaclub]

8 minutes ago, BufBills83 said:

Stop

Those aren't major flaws?

[Boatdrinks]

It’s just a bit early to tell, no ? Check back in around say, Thanksgiving and we will have a much clearer picture than after the second game of preseason. 

[CountDorkula]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Point by point:

 

1.  I am a believer that you win up front.   The Bills have not been in a position to draft a top end tackle because of the success they've had - most of those guys go in the top of the first round.  Brown had a tough outing yesterday from what I'm reading (haven't watched the game yet).  But you can't blame a GM for not being Nostradamus when you go out and get a veteran who's started in the league as competition, and he decides to retire.  So it was not a joke.  I think we're either going to see another T brought in this week, or we may see the Dutch kid get the start.  

 

2.  I am wondering if Dawkins may be suffering from long Covid effects myself.  If so, the medical staff needed to alert Beane.  But I think Dawkins will be OK.  we should prioritize drafting a T next year though.

 

3.  If Poyer leaves in free agency who do you have to replace him?  No one knew if Hamlin could or would play again.  And we hadn't even sniffed at Rapp yet.  Poyer will also be fine.  He may have lost a step, but veterans make up for that with their understanding of where plays are going.  So I am not panicking over one run in a pre-season game.  

 

4.  Without Oliver you would have had 1 DT under contract next year.  One.  Oliver will also be fine, everyone was expecting the second coming of Donald.

 

5.  Elam needs to learn zone concepts more and quit grabbing as much.  It is the beginning of his second season in the league and he's still got things to learn.   We have 4 corners that can play in the NFL which is more than many teams can say.

I’m not trying to be mean when I say this, but this is the epitome of a rose colored glasses post. 
 

No veterans sometimes cannot make up for losing the physical ability. That’s why people retire as they get older because the body just can’t. 
 

Ed Oliver, I believe is the worst rated defensive tackle from that entire front half of that draft class. And only having one defense of tackle on the roster, that is an oversight and I feel they were forced into signing Oliver.

 

The offenses and defensive lines have been a problem since they’ve got here and they’ve spent countless resources to try and fix it, and it’s still a work in progress. 
 

This team should be one of the top teams in the NFL when it’s all said and done but we cannot pretend that there aren’t some massive massive questions about the personnel decisions that have been made that could play a key factor is determining 1st seed home field or 5th seed WC playoff game. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McGovern performed "well".

 

Seumalo performed GREAT.

 

Still perplexed about how that UFA went down.    Seumalo was probably the best pass blocking guard in the NFL by the end of last season and gets just a few shillings more than the relatively unproven McGovern.

 

No doubt, the Steelers had a sneaky great offseason on the heels of a very impactful draft in 2022.   

That guy Herbig was all over the field it seemed

 

very nice pick in the 4th if you can fit a tweener like that in your system

 

kids from Hawaii too

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

I’m not trying to be mean when I say this, but this is the epitome of a rose colored glasses post. 
 

No veterans sometimes cannot make up for losing the physical ability. That’s why people retire as they get older because the body just can’t. 
 

Ed Oliver, I believe is the worst rated defensive tackle from that entire front half of that draft class. And only having one defense of tackle on the roster, that is an oversight and I feel they were forced into signing Oliver.

 

The offenses and defensive lines have been a problem since they’ve got here and they’ve spent countless resources to try and fix it, and it’s still a work in progress. 
 

This team should be one of the top teams in the NFL when it’s all said and done but we cannot pretend that there aren’t some massive massive questions about the personnel decisions that have been made that could play a key factor is determining 1st seed home field or 5th seed WC playoff game. 

Dawkins wasn’t good last night.  But Brown except for the one play where he held was fine.  He did a good job overall with Watt.  And Oliver was disruptive from what I saw. 
 

People have preconceived opinions and refuse to watch things objectively.  The one takeaway I’d have from last night is they may want to give the Dutch kid a serious look at LT if Dawkins is going to play like he did last night.

[BananaB]

The team is gonna make one last push or start going downhill. Just have too many aging vets we have to rely on and continue to sign a few more every year because the guys they drafted are not contributing. 
 

Hard not to blame Beane. McD deserves a lot of blame himself

Edited August 20, 2023 by BananaB

[Aussie Joe]

Wing eating contest?
 

Must have missed that story

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

This is hell. 
 

 

 

Chiefs made protecting their franchise QB a priority.

 

- They signed Joe Thuney, a very good G, to an $80M deal in Free Agency.

- They signed Jawaan Taylor in free agency to an $80M deal. 

- They signed Donovan Smith in free agency to a $9M deal.

- They drafted Trey Smith. Bills took Rachad Wildgoose several picks before that, instead.

- They drafted Creed Humphrey, who is now the best C in the league. Bills took Carlos Basham two slots before that.

 

It's clear that one team has made an effort to put money and draft picks into their o-line. The other hasn't. 

 

Now the Chiefs have a line where Mahomes complains about not being able to get hit, and we have a line where Allen will likely have to run around to not get hit.

 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

 

Name one

Thanks for making my point. 

[QLBillsFan]

3 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I am watching the game on replay right now.  Brown got beat once thus far on the play where he held.  Other than that he’s been fine even against Watt.  So as I figured it is confirmation bias.

 

if you are just going off last night if there’s a tackle issue it’s Dawkins, not Brown.

I’m going off last year and this years pre season. You are comfortable with our RT and swing positions? Just want to be clear. 
BB chose not to address this position at the teams peril. DD is an average LT and it’s my opinion he’s not as fit as he could be. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

And Oliver was disruptive from what I saw. 

 

This didn't happen.

[MJS]

Don't overreact to preseason games.

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

This is hell. 
 

I watched him scramble in the first game and take a small hit as he slid. What a lie.

[LabattBlue]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Chiefs made protecting their franchise QB a priority.

 

- They signed Joe Thuney, a very good G, to an $80M deal in Free Agency.

- They signed Jawaan Taylor in free agency to an $80M deal. 

- They signed Donovan Smith in free agency to a $9M deal.

- They drafted Trey Smith. Bills took Rachad Wildgoose several picks before that, instead.

- They drafted Creed Humphrey, who is now the best C in the league. Bills took Carlos Basham two slots before that.

 

It's clear that one team has made an effort to put money and draft picks into their o-line. The other hasn't. 

 

Now the Chiefs have a line where Mahomes complains about not being able to get hit, and we have a line where Allen will likely have to run around to not get hit.

 

Can’t argue with any of this

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Can’t argue with any of this

No you can't

 

I think it's pretty obvious by now that taking half measures on the oline does not yield results

 

You either get lucky/good in the draft or you spend big in FA

[BillsFan692]

27 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Chiefs made protecting their franchise QB a priority.

 

- They signed Joe Thuney, a very good G, to an $80M deal in Free Agency.

- They signed Jawaan Taylor in free agency to an $80M deal. 

- They signed Donovan Smith in free agency to a $9M deal.

- They drafted Trey Smith. Bills took Rachad Wildgoose several picks before that, instead.

- They drafted Creed Humphrey, who is now the best C in the league. Bills took Carlos Basham two slots before that.

 

It's clear that one team has made an effort to put money and draft picks into their o-line. The other hasn't. 

 

Now the Chiefs have a line where Mahomes complains about not being able to get hit, and we have a line where Allen will likely have to run around to not get hit.

 

I mean yeah, this really says it all. 

I mean we got to let the season play out but we already know this re-tread oline is busted and that our team has sunk way too many assets into misses on defense.

Starting to feel bad for JA17

Edited August 20, 2023 by BillsFan692

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, uticaclub said:

We don't have a RT, Dawkins regressed the last few years, Poyer wanted out of Buffalo but didn't get any other offers. Eric Washington didn't have anything good to say about Oliver but we extended him anyway We peaked with McDermott & Beane, tear it down & try again. It was a good run

Holy *****, this is peak doomerism 

[oldmanfan]

31 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

I’m going off last year and this years pre season. You are comfortable with our RT and swing positions? Just want to be clear. 
BB chose not to address this position at the teams peril. DD is an average LT and it’s my opinion he’s not as fit as he could be. 

I think Brown will be OK.  I am more concerned with Dawkins if he has performances like last night.  The Dutch kid will be the swing, and in a pinch they can move Edwards or Bates outside if required.

 

People seem to think we can have stars at every position.  But you can’t.  I would have put more $$ into the O line because I think you win games up front.  But we did so to get Morse, we did so to get McGovern, we drafted Torrence.  The interior line looks a lot better.  And we signed Dawkins to a long term contract because at the time he was playing very well.  
 

I might have gone T instead of say Cook in that draft, but I’d have to go back and look at who was available.  And I was a Humphrey fan.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Point by point:

 

1.  I am a believer that you win up front.   The Bills have not been in a position to draft a top end tackle because of the success they've had - most of those guys go in the top of the first round.  Brown had a tough outing yesterday from what I'm reading (haven't watched the game yet).  But you can't blame a GM for not being Nostradamus when you go out and get a veteran who's started in the league as competition, and he decides to retire.  So it was not a joke.  I think we're either going to see another T brought in this week, or we may see the Dutch kid get the start.  

 

2.  I am wondering if Dawkins may be suffering from long Covid effects myself.  If so, the medical staff needed to alert Beane.  But I think Dawkins will be OK.  we should prioritize drafting a T next year though.

 

3.  If Poyer leaves in free agency who do you have to replace him?  No one knew if Hamlin could or would play again.  And we hadn't even sniffed at Rapp yet.  Poyer will also be fine.  He may have lost a step, but veterans make up for that with their understanding of where plays are going.  So I am not panicking over one run in a pre-season game.  

 

4.  Without Oliver you would have had 1 DT under contract next year.  One.  Oliver will also be fine, everyone was expecting the second coming of Donald.

 

5.  Elam needs to learn zone concepts more and quit grabbing as much.  It is the beginning of his second season in the league and he's still got things to learn.   We have 4 corners that can play in the NFL which is more than many teams can say.

1. Bills passed on Dewand Jones in the 3rd Round. He had an 88 grade on ESPN Draft. In 79 pass snaps, he’s allowed 1 pressure.

2. Our fans don’t miss things and pictures of how out of shape Dion was circulated right away on here. 1,000 wings.

3. A $7M contract for Poyer doesn’t upset me. He won us the Ravens game last season. He’s 32-33, not too old. He walks, and that’s yet another hole to try and fill on limited money. 

 

4. Oliver is a JAG. He’s too small. Agree with the OP, that contract looks bad and not many fans were clamoring to sign him for money. 

 

5. Doubt the light goes on for Elam. The coaching staff clearly had him behind Dane Jackson all last season. Happy to have another quality depth piece, but he’s obviously been a disappointment. Word is he works hard though.

[Tipster19]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Chiefs made protecting their franchise QB a priority.

 

- They signed Joe Thuney, a very good G, to an $80M deal in Free Agency.

- They signed Jawaan Taylor in free agency to an $80M deal. 

- They signed Donovan Smith in free agency to a $9M deal.

- They drafted Trey Smith. Bills took Rachad Wildgoose several picks before that, instead.

- They drafted Creed Humphrey, who is now the best C in the league. Bills took Carlos Basham two slots before that.

 

It's clear that one team has made an effort to put money and draft picks into their o-line. The other hasn't. 

 

Now the Chiefs have a line where Mahomes complains about not being able to get hit, and we have a line where Allen will likely have to run around to not get hit.

 

This is perfect, the Chiefs made the OL a priority and the Bills have made the DL their priority. Up until now it looked like most of our early draft picks for the DL looked average at best but it’s ironic to me that you have made these points about the Chiefs’ OL because I’ve felt that this year we finally have the DL to get to MaHomes and allow us to actually win consistently against them and not just in the regular season. It’s kind of reminds me when Coughlin’s Giants and their DL were always able to get to Brady and not only affect Brady but to consistently beat him in the big games. This is going to be interesting, I’m specifically going to watch our DL against the Chiefs’ OL when we play them later this year. 
 

Go Bills!