Really excited about the impact Conor McGovern signing that's barely talked about will have on the O

[Simon]

7 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

I'd like to see more of 66 but I gotta say, I rewatched the Colts game, focused on the line play and rewatched most plays a time or two to digest what was going on, and the guy I had least notice of, good or bad, was 66. For the two series he was in, he just did his job. He didn't fail to do his job, nor go over the top accomplishing his task. He just got it done, in retrospect. Of the 5 positions on the line, he made me worry the least, from the film. How much does that count for, vs Turnstile Saffold?

 

Probably 4 pts/game ?

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, boyst said:

He would have beat mail-it-in back-9 Saffold, though. 

 

why do people engage with this Air dude?

 

Leaving out David Edwards started every game for the Rams in 2021 (superbowl year).  He had concussion issues last season, but he seems to be OK now. First year started 10 games at RG, since then 35 starts at LG.

 

Leaving out Bates, who has played LG but is competing at RG ATM

Leaving out Boettger, who started 7 games on what I thought was a better OL in 2020 and 10 on what turned out OK as an OL in 2021 - but has looked like a shell of the former Stallion so far - but the Bills didn't know that going into preseason

 

But other than those guys and a couple PS holdovers like Alec Anderson, McGovern has had no competition.

 

Naturally, every other team brings in a couple of all-pros as backups to compete at every position on the line. 😆

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Probably 4 pts/game ?

 

I think maybe more.  Strip sacks and stuff.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[Ralonzo]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

But other than those guys and a couple PS holdovers like Alec Anderson, McGovern has had no competition.

 

 

Maybe OT (off-topic, not offensive tackle) here but Anderson is an interesting cat. Looks like Kromer is grooming him from T to a Bates-type C/G swing guy. He was listed by a lot of folks as T but played exclusively G, then C. He appears beastly strong at times, maybe not Teller-level but definitely animalistic. I was certainly surprised to see how many snaps 70 got over the ball Saturday. It's tough to see how he makes the roster as opposed to say, a Van Demark who really just needs to be better than Quessenberry (like most opposing ends are). If there was a guy in camp right now who I'd worry about becoming the next Teller after going elsewhere, Anderson would be my current pick.

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Maybe OT (off-topic, not offensive tackle) here but Anderson is an interesting cat. Looks like Kromer is grooming him from T to a Bates-type C/G swing guy. He was listed by a lot of folks as T but played exclusively G, then C. He appears beastly strong at times, maybe not Teller-level but definitely animalistic. I was certainly surprised to see how many snaps 70 got over the ball Saturday. It's tough to see how he makes the roster as opposed to say, a Van Demark who really just needs to be better than Quessenberry (like most opposing ends are). If there was a guy in camp right now who I'd worry about becoming the next Teller after going elsewhere, Anderson would be my current pick.

 

I think it's absolutely on-topic. 

 

Beane has not made a secret of valuing positional versatility at backup OL positions.

 

I don't think Van Demark is competing with Anderson.  I think they usually keep 9 OL: RT, LT, 2 swing tackles (one who can play as a 6 OL).  Then starting IOL and 2 backups, one of whom can play C. 

 

Heck, the Bills have Anderson listed as a T.  So if Anderson is getting a lot of work at C and some at G, he may very well be one of the 2 backup G.  If he could play T in a pinch as Bates can, so much the better.  The guy he's competing against is Greg Mancz, who under- impressed me last season.  What have you seen from him?

 

I'm right in thinking that Van Demark is strictly a T, right?  I get him mixed up with Van Roten who was our 3rd string C last season and not invited back.

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

why do people engage with this Air dude?

 

Leaving out David Edwards started every game for the Rams in 2021 (superbowl year).  He had concussion issues last season, but he seems to be OK now. First year started 10 games at RG, since then 35 starts at LG.

 

Leaving out Bates, who has played LG but is competing at RG ATM

Leaving out Boettger, who started 7 games on what I thought was a better OL in 2020 and 10 on what turned out OK as an OL in 2021 - but has looked like a shell of the former Stallion so far - but the Bills didn't know that going into preseason

 

But other than those guys and a couple PS holdovers like Alec Anderson, McGovern has had no competition.

 

Naturally, every other team brings in a couple of all-pros as backups to compete at every position on the line. 😆

 

I think maybe more.  Strip sacks and stuff.

My bad. I'll try to remember not to. I don't pay attention much anymore to who anyone is... 😑

[beerme1]

On 8/16/2023 at 5:22 PM, AuntieEm said:

We could have drafted our center for the Josh Allen era of Bills football.  Morse is not bad as 2nd prize but he's also got more we esr and tear and shelf life is ticking for his career.  Much like Eric Wood had to retire for health concerns.

 

I will always love and miss EWood. He got robbed of his his football career because of the diagnosis, but life is more important and I believe he has a wonderful life. So kudos to the Dr. that discovered the problem.

[AuntieEm]

4 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

I will always love and miss EWood. He got robbed of his his football career because of the diagnosis, but life is more important and I believe he has a wonderful life. So kudos to the Dr. that discovered the problem.

 

Yes and he gets to do some commentary for preseason and I believe at his alm a mater for college coverage.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

So your entire post was great and I’d like to dive into it a bit more just because I like talking football, but I found this part to be funny (and this is tongue in cheek)…

 

You’re saying most big plays that aren’t made by QBs are made by either WRs, Tackles, Pass Rushers, or Corners…except for when they’re made by TEs.  Paging  @Captain Obvious.

 

It is obvious to me........but QB/WR1/LT/PassRush1/CB1............that's really just 5 to 8 players that change most games.........if you are even good/lucky enough to have that many.  

 

But good luck maintaining that many of those difference makers if you aren't using your early picks to do so.

 

Also to be very clear about something you've seemingly misunderstood,  RT is absolutely NOT a premium position.

 

Like the centers and guards,  RT can be covered up with a TE in the normal course of business.........because the right side is typically the strong side of the formation in the run game.    I'm for drafting them if you find a talent there........but not in the first 2 rounds.   You don't want to have to pay those guys.     

 

 

 

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think it's absolutely on-topic. 

 

Beane has not made a secret of valuing positional versatility at backup OL positions.

 

I don't think Van Demark is competing with Anderson.  I think they usually keep 9 OL: RT, LT, 2 swing tackles (one who can play as a 6 OL).  Then starting IOL and 2 backups, one of whom can play C. 

 

Heck, the Bills have Anderson listed as a T.  So if Anderson is getting a lot of work at C and some at G, he may very well be one of the 2 backup G.  If he could play T in a pinch as Bates can, so much the better.  The guy he's competing against is Greg Mancz, who under- impressed me last season.  What have you seen from him?

 

I'm right in thinking that Van Demark is strictly a T, right?  I get him mixed up with Van Roten who was our 3rd string C last season and not invited back.

 

Yeah, Beane saw something was Van Rotten so got Ven Denmark (reusing that pun)

 

You're bang on saying Anderson is not competing with Van Demark. What I can say for sure is 70 played exclusively at G-C on Saturday. 74 played LT and then RT. To me that says, the former (70 - Anderson) is being measured in the 2021 role of Bates as interior back-up-all, and the latter (74 - Van Demark) in the 2022 role of Quessenberry as swing tackle.

 

Edit: Oh right, Mancz. He's C-only as far as I've ever seen him. And he's been a JAG doing it. I don't except to see him make the 53.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Ralonzo

[Dopey]

On 8/16/2023 at 5:08 PM, Airseven said:

McGovern stepped in day 1 because he had literally no one to compete with for the spot.

I call BS on “literally“ He literally had players competing with him for that spot. Literally. He’s just better and that why Beane signed him. 

God forbid someone writes a positive post. It’ is LITERALLY ok to be positive about players here. 

[BurpleBull]

Did anyone else have to read the thread title at least twice to get closer to understanding the idea being expressed?

 

Took me on a journey.

[Bill from NYC]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

And if you think I am picking on Humphrey.........one of the more compelling arguments in favor of what I am saying was the 2009 Bills drafting an pro bowl center in round 1(Eric Wood) and a "highest paid guard in the league"(Andy Levitre) and All Pro safety(Jairus Byrd) in round 2.    When it came time for second contracts........the Bills weren't in any cap bind.........but they couldn't justify paying a guard or safety top money.    I predicted it when they drafted them and I was dead on.   It is what it is with those positions.

 

My only question about the above would be: How steadfast is this rule?

 

For instance, the Eagles drafted Landon Dickerson early in round 2 in 2021. I had no doubt that he would be a top center. They moved him to guard and he looks even better there, probably because he is huge and exceptionally strong. I am not saying that he was the most vital piece of their superbowl team, but he certainly made life easier for their entire offense, especially Hurts. Btw, 3 rbs were picked before him which was ridiculous imo. Was he a bad pick based on position alone?

 

I definitely agree with your post. The game has changed so much that drafting a center or even a guard early on has become a rarity and with good reason. The game has changed just so much. What I am wondering is that if there was a guard today as good as Larry Allen, would he be worth an early second round pick? I ask because tbh, although I cannot see drafting too many of them early today, if a kid was coming up who I thought would be as good as Larry Allen, I would take him in round 1. Would I be wrong?

[HOUSE]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:45 PM, JerseyBills said:

His name is Conor McGovern 

Stepped in day 1 and took over as starting LG, never heard much of anything about him which is great for an OL. Not a peep of competition or anything,  he locked down LG1 since day 1, excited about him since day 1, very high potential 

 

Considering we literally had the worse G in the game there, he should provide the whole OL and O with a significant boost. Loved a few runs to the left I saw in practice and games. 

I gave you a little red trophy because it's Friday and everyone is in a very good mood.

[Bobby Hooks]

I love that everyone talks about Teller like Beane’s the only one that missed it. There were coaches, etc that missed it too. You’d think the o-line coach would have something to say if dude was ballin’ out. 
 

I don’t recall anyone on the boards saying how big a deal it was when we moved on. Now it’s all anyone can talk about. They whiffed okay, let it go! I love how omniscient everyone becomes with the gift of hindsight. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Bobby Hooks

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

I love that everyone talks about Teller like Beane’s the only one that missed it. There were coaches, etc that missed it too. You’d think the o-line coach would have something to say if dude was ballin’ out. 
 

I don’t recall anyone on the boards saying how big a deal it was when we moved on. Now it’s all anyone can talk about. They whiffed okay, let it go! I love how omniscient everyone becomes with the gift of hindsight. 

 

Teller's pass protection was never really his strong suit fwiw.  

[Jerome007]

Not to be a " I told you so" guy ha ha, but I was super happy when they signed him, and thought  it would be super impactful. Brown should be better with experience alone and hopefully a better healthier back, McGovern and probably Torrence have improved the G positions a lot, so unless Dawkins and Morse have regressed, that OLine really improved, and it will make the whole offense look even scarier. Add more short quick passes to Cook and Kincaid to take pressure off the OLine and discourage DLinemen, and what a nightmare it'll be for opposing defenses. If Dorsey plays in his full deck well, the Bills O will be top tier, likely even #1 this year.

[BritishBill]

Injured? Knee problem?

[FireChans]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:58 AM, Bill from NYC said:

My only question about the above would be: How steadfast is this rule?

 

For instance, the Eagles drafted Landon Dickerson early in round 2 in 2021. I had no doubt that he would be a top center. They moved him to guard and he looks even better there, probably because he is huge and exceptionally strong. I am not saying that he was the most vital piece of their superbowl team, but he certainly made life easier for their entire offense, especially Hurts. Btw, 3 rbs were picked before him which was ridiculous imo. Was he a bad pick based on position alone?

 

I definitely agree with your post. The game has changed so much that drafting a center or even a guard early on has become a rarity and with good reason. The game has changed just so much. What I am wondering is that if there was a guard today as good as Larry Allen, would he be worth an early second round pick? I ask because tbh, although I cannot see drafting too many of them early today, if a kid was coming up who I thought would be as good as Larry Allen, I would take him in round 1. Would I be wrong?

My exception to @BADOLBILZ's rules, which I generally agree with, is All-Pro caliber player's. 

 

I think an OG or C or S that is All-Pro worthy is a guy you would keep on your team. Mostly because as a theoretical exercise, you would only be paying the top-end positions, but in reality, most teams do not have a top QB/WR/EDGE/CB/LT all making top 5 at their position money.

 

If Cody Ford was an All-Pro, the Bills would have been in the SB by now. If Spencer Brown was an All-Pro, the Bills would have been in the SB by now.

 

Now, by the same token, would you rather have a cheap, cost controlled DE as an All-Pro for four years vs an OG?  It's obviously DE.  But that's not the choice teams are generally making.

[Realist]

1 hour ago, BritishBill said:

Injured? Knee problem?

Heard he seemed to be walking fine and in good spirits, joking around after practice. Don't think it's anything significant.

[NickelCity]

I'm gonna go ahead and give this a big ol' bump, because McGovern deserves it. 

 

Our interior line play has been strong, and I am thrilled with McGovern. Plug and play from day 1.

[H2o]

Just now, NickelCity said:

I'm gonna go ahead and give this a big ol' bump, because McGovern deserves it. 

 

Our interior line play has been strong, and I am thrilled with McGovern. Plug and play from day 1.

Couple McGovern with Torrence and this OL is actually solid. 

[NewEra]

👍🏻 worthy bump.  Our pass protection has been the key to us being more consistent on O.  
 

I focus on him from time to time and haven’t seen a bad rep yet.

[BillnutinHouston]

55 minutes ago, H2o said:

Couple McGovern with Torrence and this OL is actually solid. 

 

Feels weird right?

[RyanC883]

Great in run and pass —awesome

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

Great in run and pass —awesome

Wait? We can have both? 

[Aurelius]

Two biggest improvements overall in this team have been McDermott’s takeover of the defense and McGovern and Torrence taking over the guard spots.  There are other bright spots but these clearly stand out.  Transformed the line totally, and one guy is only a freshman and will likely be a pro bowler by year 2. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Aurelius

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

Couple McGovern with Torrence and this OL is actually solid. 

 

The two of them have allowed Mitch Morse not need to compensate for guards on either side.

[Aurelius]

Just now, Limeaid said:

 

The two of them have allowed Mitch Morse not need to compensate for guards on either side.

Took pressure off the tackles too to cover the inside rush. 

[poo]

Best interior offensive line since the wood and incognito days?

[Sierra Foothills]

On 8/18/2023 at 8:58 AM, Bill from NYC said:

The game has changed so much that drafting a center or even a guard early on has become a rarity and with good reason. The game has changed just so much. What I am wondering is that if there was a guard today as good as Larry Allen, would he be worth an early second round pick? I ask because tbh, although I cannot see drafting too many of them early today, if a kid was coming up who I thought would be as good as Larry Allen, I would take him in round 1. Would I be wrong?

 

IMO there are always players who transcend the value of their position.

 

I'm hoping O'Cyrus Torrence will be one of the great draftees in recent Bills history and thinking he's well on that path.

 

Con(n)or has been a very solid addition.

 

I'm liking Van Demark and Anderson too. I like going with younger guys with upside as opposed to retreads.

 

This appears to be the Bills best O-line in many years.

 

[Ralonzo]

The two major chinks is the armor of the Bills OL are: transition rushes against Brown (speed-to-power or power-to-speed) and bull rushes that isolate Morse. His anchor isn't what it used to be but mostly he will get help from the left or right. Honestly, the Bills have at least 3 G's this year that are better than last years starters (Saffold/Bates) in McGovern, Torrence and Edwards. If preseason tape counts Anderson is possibly a 4th. He turned down offers from other teams to elevate him from the Bills' practice roster. I'm speculating there's a plan to have him take over for Morse as soon as next year. An interior line with an ascending Torrence, prime McGovern and adding another hoss-strong guy at C that can turn nose tackles out of the hole 1-on-1... I am absolutely looking forward to that. Shore up RT through organic growth by Brown or Van Demark or an outside addition, and it's championship caliber.

[Aurelius]

2 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

The two major chinks is the armor of the Bills OL are: transition rushes against Brown (speed-to-power or power-to-speed) and bull rushes that isolate Morse. His anchor isn't what it used to be but mostly he will get help from the left or right. Honestly, the Bills have at least 3 G's this year that are better than last years starters (Saffold/Bates) in McGovern, Torrence and Edwards. If preseason tape counts Anderson is possibly a 4th. He turned down offers from other teams to elevate him from the Bills' practice roster. I'm speculating there's a plan to have him take over for Morse as soon as next year. An interior line with an ascending Torrence, prime McGovern and adding another hoss-strong guy at C that can turn nose tackles out of the hole 1-on-1... I am absolutely looking forward to that. Shore up RT through organic growth by Brown or Van Demark or an outside addition, and it's championship caliber.

Yes but the truth is that Morse is near retirement. Our right tackle whom I really like being Spencer Brown, is a late round draft guy who has struggled with injuries and has been hit or miss between injuries and consistency. Those are the two next pieces that need to be addressed in either free agency or the draft and they will be fine for now but are definite needs moving forward.

[Ralonzo]

Another possibility with Brown if he just doesn't become a satisfactory NFL RT and need to upgrade the position, you can probably turn him into Lee Smith.

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

👍🏻 worthy bump.  Our pass protection has been the key to us being more consistent on O.  
 

I focus on him from time to time and haven’t seen a bad rep yet.

Top 10 OL with 2 brand new starters, and essentially a brand new right side with Brown. How freaking huge. Not only do we have a power run game, but PFF (I KNOW I KNOW) has us the #1 rated pass blocking team. While I take that with huge grain of salt, josh doesn't require a #1 pass block so we're already in the gravy.

 

13games left to gel before the real test!

6 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Another possibility with Brown if he just doesn't become a satisfactory NFL RT and need to upgrade the position, you can probably turn him into Lee Smith.

Or backwards Jason peters! Lol how are his hands 🤣🤣

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Another possibility with Brown if he just doesn't become a satisfactory NFL RT and need to upgrade the position, you can probably turn him into Lee Smith.

 

 

The extreme Spencer Brown hate from people like @Simon reminds me a lot of former Bills whipping boy OG/OT Glenn Parker.

 

Very good athlete.......had some injury setbacks......took longer to develop than ideal but went on to become a very good starter for a long time and the Giants were extremely disappointed that he decided to call it quits at age 35.  

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

Another possibility with Brown if he just doesn't become a satisfactory NFL RT and need to upgrade the position, you can probably turn him into Lee Smith.

 

Brown does not have the movement or recognition skills of Lee Smith.

Josh Allen said he learned a lot from Lee Smith and it makes a lot of sense he is teaching.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Connor has been outstanding! I was a skeptic of the signing. I didn’t think he was an upgrade over Ryan Bates. I was wrong. Honestly I thought Bates should’ve been a starting OG but I was wrong. McGovern and Torrence are the real deal. 

[Don Otreply]

The trenches my friends, the trenches. 
It is the fulcrum for the lever…

 

Looks like we have it going on on both sides of the ball, how great is that…,

[BBFL]

14 hours ago, poo said:

Best interior offensive line since the wood and incognito days?

Great pairing!

 

Actually thought the trio of Levitre/Wood/Urbik  was pretty good

[billsfan89]

15 hours ago, H2o said:

Couple McGovern with Torrence and this OL is actually solid. 

Top 5 offensive line in the league, certainly a top 10 unit right now? Not only are McGovern and Torrence playing well at guard but Dawkins is playing really well and Brown while still not good is at least less of a liability.