Training Camp - 8/3 - 9:45am

[78thealltimegreat]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

But we don’t. So who should be out there instead?

 

who cares if he wants a contract extension…. Literally every athlete in the world wants the same thing.  What does that have to do with anything?

Especially if we traded Diggs for him….

No one that’s the point this should have been dealt with in the off season. 

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

And STILL put up almost 900 yards and 7 TD in an injury-shortened season

 

get real

 

Ooo so impressive when the other receiver is Steff Diggs he should have been even better 

[scuba guy]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Thad Brown NEVER disappoints!  Allen makes a bad throw among a host of great throws at practice and this hack hopes it isn't a sign of something worse? 

 

 

In Astros notes he said Allen just through it in there to test it.

 

 

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

No one that’s the point this should have been dealt with in the off season. 

Ooo so impressive when the other receiver is Steff Diggs he should have been even better 

They used their 1st rd pick on a pass catcher that will be one of the focal points of our offense for the next 10 years.  A pass catcher that won’t cost us 30m aav after he’s an all pro. We’ll be just fine as long as the OL hold up and Dorsey improves 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Thad Brown NEVER disappoints!  Allen makes a bad throw among a host of great throws at practice and this hack hopes it isn't a sign of something worse? 

 

 

He's destined for another errand Josh Allen pass to the jaw😎

[JaCrispy]

All I keep thinking about is Brown jumping through a table the night he was drafted…I’m no doctor, but I would surmise that probably wasn’t good for his back…

[Jauronimo]

6 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

who was the white guy from around Dareus rookie year i think it was lol him too also marcus easley

7/11 Chris Hogan

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Weird about Spector. He got a chance with the 1s and by all accounts played quite well. Now he is permanently relegated to the 3rd team. It seems like Dodson is the leader in the competition but I worry about him. When Edmunds missed the 2nd half of the Minnesota game, Dodson was his replacement and looked awful IMO. It was a big reason Minnesota was suddenly able to move the ball at will.

Nobody looked as bad as Bernard did last year. Even Epenesa, Basham, and Johnson looked better than Bernard did.

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Milano tends to miss some games each year with injuries, so having Williams backing him up there is a good thing.  As for MLB you know Klein can play that spot on running downs, and we'll see between Bernard and Dodson who gets the most snaps.  My guess is on passing downs McD is going to go with a lot of 6 DB/1 LB looks anyway, with Milano on the field. As for 2nd CB, I think we'll see Elam a lot depending on what McD calls.  If they want more one-on-one Elam has that skill set, whereas Jackson and Benford will play more in zone.  having three guys competing for one spot is a lot better than having none.

Milano tends to miss some games each year with injuries, so having Williams backing him up there is a good thing.  As for MLB you know Klein can play that spot on running downs, and we'll see between Bernard and Dodson who gets the most snaps.  My guess is on passing downs McD is going to go with a lot of 6 DB/1 LB looks anyway, with Milano on the field. As for 2nd CB, I think we'll see Elam a lot depending on what McD calls.  If they want more one-on-one Elam has that skill set, whereas Jackson and Benford will play more in zone.  having three guys competing for one spot is a lot better than having none.

I agree with your 6 DB 1 LB idea. That puts the 7 best defenders on the field on the back end in obvious passing down and distances. You can still blitz a safety from this group if you want to send 5 guys. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, FLFan said:

Or it just may be that he understands more than you about how to build an NFL team, as shocking as that concept might be to you.  

Why do you think he does? Without Allen what has he really accomplished? If Browns or Jets take Allen he would be out of a job by now. 

He has as many misses as he does hits. Bills could do a lot worse but Beane is not infallible.

30 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They used their 1st rd pick on a pass catcher that will be one of the focal points of our offense for the next 10 years.  A pass catcher that won’t cost us 30m aav after he’s an all pro. We’ll be just fine as long as the OL hold up and Dorsey improves 

Agreed. Knox and Kincaid if used correctly can be devastating. 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Why do you think he does? Without Allen what has he really accomplished? If Browns or Jets take Allen he would be out of a job by now. 

He has as many misses as he does hits. Bills could do a lot worse but Beane is not infallible.

Besides doing the most important thing possible what has he done?!?!

[freddyjj]

18 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

All I keep thinking about is Brown jumping through a table the night he was drafted…I’m no doctor, but I would surmise that probably wasn’t good for his back…

I surmised that in the thread earlier. 😂 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

No one that’s the point this should have been dealt with in the off season. 

Ooo so impressive when the other receiver is Steff Diggs he should have been even better 

 

The point is, guy, if he'd had a full, uninjured season, he likely would have surpassed Waddle, or even Cin's second receiver.

 

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

They don't need to look at Klein.  McDermott knows what Klein's strengths and limitations are in great detail.

Yes but if he was in the competition he would get more reps. Since he’s gotten almost nothing I think he’s vet PS. No one is gonna pick him up so he’s an easy stash. 

[RyanC883]

11 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

He is a rookie from not a big time program.  They don’t want to overload him by having him learn 2 positions- and a rookie at MLB calling defense in the huddle is risky.  Too early to panic on a rookie late 3rd round pick.

 

Tulane is still D1.  And he had a good senior bowl.  Not playing him or trying him at MLB is crazy. 

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Sounds like he might have slipped a disc a little.  I had back surgery in November of 2021 and quick sudden movements can just throw it out easily.

 

I can train at the gym hard....completely good.  Then I can drop my wallet on the ground and when I go down to reach it....out.  Now I'm walking around like I have to poop all day.

 

Unfortunately I suspect that playing NFL OT is even more strenuous than picking up a wallet, and probably subjects the back to more unpredictable and undesireable forces than a carefully controlled gym workout

 

 

9 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

One training camp, 7 practices in and you've already determined Williams a waste.  

 

9 hours ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

One can be right now and then and still be a turd

 

Somehow I felt these two posts just complemented each other and went together.  Like bread and butter.  Ham and cheese.  Wings and blue cheese

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

All I keep thinking about is Brown jumping through a table the night he was drafted…I’m no doctor, but I would surmise that probably wasn’t good for his back…

Was thinking that last year when I heard he had back surgery. 
 

I really want to love this guy.    
 

But I hate this guy and have very little confidence that he’ll ever be anything but a detriment to Josh Allens health.  
 

sigh.  

[JaCrispy]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Was thinking that last year when I heard he had back surgery. 
 

I really want to love this guy.    
 

But I hate this guy and have very little confidence that he’ll ever be anything but a detriment to Josh Allens health.  
 

sigh.  

Same…part of me is keeping my fingers crossed…but part of me wonders how long it will take before the team realizes they need to upgrade…

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Why do you think he does? Without Allen what has he really accomplished? If Browns or Jets take Allen he would be out of a job by now. 

He has as many misses as he does hits. Bills could do a lot worse but Beane is not infallible.

Agreed. Knox and Kincaid if used correctly can be devastating. 

Beane would be out of a job?  I doubt it.  If we didn’t have Allen the bar wouldn’t be set so high.  Coming off 17 bum seasons, there’s a good chance Beane would’ve done good Enough to stick around.  He’s not inept.  He’s been really bad drafting rd 2-3 and that is what is keeping this team from being a champion.  There’s a lot of real estate between being a champion and being fired

 

You don’t know what would have happened if Allen was gone.  What if he would’ve drafted Lamar?  Maybe he would’ve found a way to draft one of many solid young qbs.  You’re acting as if he 💯 would’ve failed in the quest of a franchise QB.  But you have no clue who he would’ve taken.  

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Same…part of me is keeping my fingers crossed…but part of me wonders how long it will take before the team realizes they need to upgrade…

Seems like they’re blinded by the RAS and believes in the individual.  Could cost

us 3 seasons in a row.  
 

but we have Kincaid- just throw him the ball.   We’ll win

Edited August 4, 2023 by NewEra

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Unfortunately I suspect that playing NFL OT is even more strenuous than picking up a wallet, and probably subjects the back to more unpredictable and undesireable forces than a carefully controlled gym workout

 

 

 

 

Somehow I felt these two posts just complemented each other and went together.  Like bread and butter.  Ham and cheese.  Wings and blue cheese

 

My hobby puts my body through hell just like an NFL player.  It's a different type but still get broken down physically.  

The reason I had back surgery was because of this.  I have had several more injuries as well and probably need surgery on my left shoulder.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

59 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Beane would be out of a job?  I doubt it.  If we didn’t have Allen the bar wouldn’t be set so high.  Coming off 17 bum seasons, there’s a good chance Beane would’ve done good Enough to stick around.  He’s not inept.  He’s been really bad drafting rd 2-3 and that is what is keeping this team from being a champion.  There’s a lot of real estate between being a champion and being fired

 

You don’t know what would have happened if Allen was gone.  What if he would’ve drafted Lamar?  Maybe he would’ve found a way to draft one of many solid young qbs.  You’re acting as if he 💯 would’ve failed in the quest of a franchise QB.  But you have no clue who he would’ve taken.  

Seems like they’re blinded by the RAS and believes in the individual.  Could cost

us 3 seasons in a row.  
 

but we have Kincaid- just throw him the ball.   We’ll win

Fair enough. But its more likely he would have taken Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold if Allen was gone.

 

GM that took Mayfield - fired

GM that took Rosen and Murray - fired

GM that took Darnold- fired

 

Miss on a first round QB is a career death blow.

 

Never ever have I said he was inept. I just push back on the he is a genius nonsense and that he is infallible in some way because he drafted Allen.

 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Fair enough. But its more likely he would have taken Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold if Allen was gone.

 

GM that took Mayfield - fired

GM that took Rosen and Murray - fired

GM that took Darnold- fired

 

Miss on a first round QB is a career death blow.

 

Never ever have I said he was inept. I just push back on the he is a genius nonsense and that he is infallible in some way because he drafted Allen.

 

We have no idea what would’ve happened.  No idea if we would’ve traded up or stayed at 12 and drafted Lamar.  But you can pretend to know

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

My hobby puts my body through hell just like an NFL player.  It's a different type but still get broken down physically.  

The reason I had back surgery was because of this.  I have had several more injuries as well and probably need surgery on my left shoulder.  

 

Watch out for that shoulder 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Buffalo716

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

The point is, guy, if he'd had a full, uninjured season, he likely would have surpassed Waddle, or even Cin's second receiver.

 

delusional take. quit looking at his whole season stats to evaluate his season.  dude was the invisible man for 8+games last year.

he padded his season stats and helped us beat Pitt by 3 scores instead of 2. WOW, what a game changer.

What about the 8+ games where he had 2-3receptions and under 30 freaking yards

 

circled in red are unacceptable.... 8 of his 15 games were atrocious.... but yes, give me Gabe over Waddle or Higgins eyerolllllllllllllllllllllll

dude is a drive killer, the thing we had no problems with in 2020 our best offensive year

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[NewEra]

57 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

delusional take. quit looking at his whole season stats to evaluate his season.  dude was the invisible man for 8+games last year.

he padded his season stats and helped us beat Pitt by 3 scores instead of 2. WOW, what a game changer.

What about the 8+ games where he had 2-3receptions and under 30 freaking yards

 

circled in red are unacceptable.... 8 of his 15 games were atrocious.... but yes, give me Gabe over Waddle or Higgins eyerolllllllllllllllllllllll

dude is a drive killer, the thing we had no problems with in 2020 our best offensive year

 

 

2022 Gabe Davis-  the not so fast, not so subtle, not so agile suffered a high ankle sprain.  Certain injuries will hamper different athletes in different ways. I feel that a high ankle sprain for Davis had a huge negative impact on his ability.  
 

problem is, he always has some sort of foot injury.  It’s contract time, maybe this will be the year he avoid the bug!  If not 👋🏻.  If he does, l think Beane is gonna pay him more than most of us want.  But if we win a SB in the meantime- sall good

[eball]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Beane hates using high picks on WRs… or he doesn’t trust his scouts at the position. Either way, two years in a row of a LB in round 3… along with the RB picks in the early rounds have me scratching my head with his rationale. Little decisions like those have played a part in holding this team back from getting to a SB IMO. 

 

Sometime you should really just sit back and listen to yourself.  “Beane hates…” “he doesn’t trust his scouts…” umm, what?

 

Just because Beane doesn’t do what couch potato ScottLaw would do doesn’t mean any of this nonsense.

 

And yeah, Beane has really “held this team back” from being one of the 5-6 teams that has a legitimate shot at the SB each year.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

2022 Gabe Davis-  the not so fast, not so subtle, not so agile suffered a high ankle sprain.  Certain injuries will hamper different athletes in different ways. I feel that a high ankle sprain for Davis had a huge negative impact on his ability.  
 

problem is, he always has some sort of foot injury.  It’s contract time, maybe this will be the year he avoid the bug!  If not 👋🏻.  If he does, l think Beane is gonna pay him more than most of us want.  But if we win a SB in the meantime- sall good

Dude pretty obviously never watches other teams. Think it's safe to disregard his rageposts 

[Thunderstruck]

15 hours ago, boyst said:

Easley was black

I wonder if he still is?

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Watch out for that shoulder 

 

Being stacked from triangles caused my slipped disc in my lower back.  

My left shoulder is just wear and tear.  

Herniated a disc in my deck from all the pulling.

A dozen rib injuries.

I have to warm up my hips with an elastic band and stretch every morning before I do anything.  My hips are so tight when I wake up that I can barely walk.

 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Dude pretty obviously never watches other teams. Think it's safe to disregard his rageposts 

Wrong. You're the one in denial if you think Gabe is even in the same ballpark as 2 guys you listed that are bordering #1 WRs.

 

Having more than half your games with 2 catches for under 35-40yds is a #3 WR at best. A #2 needs to find a way to contribute. Gabe does nothing with the field Diggs opens up for him, and went over 100yards once.

 

Gabe contribution was to let Stef get bracketed, consequence free. Not help move the chains, and generate incompletions (and 6 ints thrown his way on 48 catches because he cant separate). 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Wrong. You're the one in denial if you think Gabe is even in the same ballpark as 2 guys you listed that are bordering #1 WRs.

 

Having more than half your games with 2 catches for under 35-40yds is a #3 WR at best. A #2 needs to find a way to contribute. Gabe does nothing with the field Diggs opens up for him, and went over 100yards once.

 

Gabe contribution was to let Stef get bracketed, consequence free. Not help move the chains, and generate incompletions (and 6 ints thrown his way on 48 catches because he cant separate). 

 

I mean, if you say so

 

[BillsShredder83]

6 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

I mean, if you say so

 

so youll call it another successful year for Gabe and be cool handing him a fat contract if he has another year like that then right?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

so youll call it another successful year for Gabe and be cool handing him a fat contract if he has another year like that then right?

 

I think he's going to have a much better season, and my bold prediction is regardless of what numbers he puts up, you'll be complaining about it.

 

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea.. it’s a message board… obviously it is my opinion some of Beane’s move/lack there of have held the team back from getting to and winning a SB… they aren’t even close if Beane doesn’t draft Josh. I know you like to praise everything this team does, especially as the season gets closer and you get more excited, but he’s got his flaws and I’m not confident in his approach to certain positions will be enough to get them there.

This. Josh covers so many shortcomings on this roster due to Beanes crappy drafting especially in rounds 2 and especially 3. The constant misses in those key rounds are what ultimately are going to continue to keep us from winning it all. That and his failure to protect Josh and instead waste picks on guys like Bernard, Basham, and Williams. 

[Billschinatown]

42 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Wrong. You're the one in denial if you think Gabe is even in the same ballpark as 2 guys you listed that are bordering #1 WRs.

 

Having more than half your games with 2 catches for under 35-40yds is a #3 WR at best. A #2 needs to find a way to contribute. Gabe does nothing with the field Diggs opens up for him, and went over 100yards once.

 

Gabe contribution was to let Stef get bracketed, consequence free. Not help move the chains, and generate incompletions (and 6 ints thrown his way on 48 catches because he cant separate). 

 

Does stretching every morning make it any better over time?

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, NewEra said:

Beane would be out of a job?  I doubt it.  If we didn’t have Allen the bar wouldn’t be set so high.  Coming off 17 bum seasons, there’s a good chance Beane would’ve done good Enough to stick around.  He’s not inept.  He’s been really bad drafting rd 2-3 and that is what is keeping this team from being a champion.  There’s a lot of real estate between being a champion and being fired

 

What were you expecting from a GM who is "average" or "good" drafting Rd 2 and 3 if you think Beane is "bad"?  And what GMs exemplify this?

 

Remember that overall, the odds of getting a football player (not a star, just a guy who can play solidly in the NFL) are something like 50% at best in the 2nd and 3rd round - and many of these may be the team's "lunch pail guys", guys they expect solid play from during their rookie contract but may not necessarily re-sign.  Or guys who don't contribute for a year, or who get traded off their original team then play for their 2nd shot.  Austin Corbett and Ronald Jones II would be examples of that from 2018.

 

2018 Round 3  Harrison Phillips.  Injuries. NFL player, Bills use heavy rotation at his position, 55% of snaps his final season, played out his contract here Push.

2019 Round 2 Cody Ford.  Injuries, then struggled period.  Now playing for Bengals.  Hope he's still a bust.

Round 3 Devin Singletary.  Solid back and pass protector here.  Played out his contract here.

Round 3 Dawson Knox  Good player.  Solid all-around TE.  Has been resigned.  Didn't contribute as much last season, but was that him or Dorsey?

2020 Round 2 AJ Epenesa.  Asked to remodel himself.  Has contributed but not as much as we need, looking like he took a step this off season.  Jury still out.

Round 3. Zach Moss. Injuries.  Did not work out here at all.

2021 Round 2 Boogie Basham.  Not looking good IMO.

Round 3 Spencer Brown  mixed bag.  Has looked good at times, awful at others.  Injury concerns.

2022 Round 2 James Cook.  Contributed last season, looking good so far.  Could be a great add.

Round 3 Terrel Bernard.  STer so far.  Looked lost in space in the game he started for Milano last season.  Competing at MLB this season.

 

So for the first 3 years, we have "contributing NFL players": Phillips, Singletary, AJE.  "sub-par": Ford, Moss.  60%.

I don't think we can tell what we've gotten the last 2 years yet, and especially not last season, yet.

 

It's an interesting contention that not drafting better in the 2nd and 3rd round has cost us a championship.  Can you say more about this?

 

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

What were you expecting from a GM who is "average" or "good" drafting Rd 2 and 3 if you think Beane is "bad"?  And what GMs exemplify this?

 

Remember that overall, the odds of getting a football player (not a star, just a guy who can play solidly in the NFL) are something like 50% at best in the 2nd and 3rd round - and many of these may be the team's "lunch pail guys", guys they expect solid play from during their rookie contract but may not necessarily re-sign.  Or guys who don't contribute for a year, or who get traded off their original team then play for their 2nd shot.  Austin Corbett and Ronald Jones II would be examples of that from 2018.

 

2018 Round 3  Harrison Phillips.  Injuries. NFL player, Bills use heavy rotation at his position, 55% of snaps his final season, played out his contract here Push.

we got next to nothing from him over 4 years.  Had one decent year of productivity.  

2019 Round 2 Cody Ford.  Injuries, then struggled period.  Now playing for Bengals.  Hope he's still a bust.

complete bust

Round 3 Devin Singletary.  Solid back and pass protector here.  Played out his contract here.

decent player.  I was a fan of the kid but we could’ve gotten the same production from a street FA

Round 3 Dawson Knox  Good player.  Solid all-around TE.  Has been resigned.  Didn't contribute as much last season, but was that him or Dorsey?

good pick

2020 Round 2 AJ Epenesa.  Asked to remodel himself.  Has contributed but not as much as we need, looking like he took a step this off season.  Jury still out.

2 years of bust.  1 decent season.  Detriment vs the run. I doubt he’s resigned.  I can’t call this a good pick as of now. 

Round 3. Zach Moss. Injuries.  Did not work out here at all.

bust

2021 Round 2 Boogie Basham.  Not looking good IMO.

bust

Round 3 Spencer Brown  mixed bag.  Has looked good at times, awful at others.  Injury concerns.

On the fast track to bustville

2022 Round 2 James Cook.  Contributed last season, looking good so far.  Could be a great add.
love the player and expect a lot out of him.  That said- he’s the 3rd rb taken in the first 3 rounds over 4 years which says a lot about the previous RB picks.  Another premium pick in the LEAST premium position.

Round 3 Terrel Bernard.  STer so far.  Looked lost in space in the game he started for Milano last season.  Competing at MLB this season.

too early to tell- has bust written all over him.  I got my money on him being a ST player and the. Not resigned. Get in the gym little man

 

So for the first 3 years, we have "contributing NFL players": Phillips, Singletary, AJE.  "sub-par": Ford, Moss.  60%.

I don't think we can tell what we've gotten the last 2 years yet, and especially not last season, yet.

 

It's an interesting contention that not drafting better in the 2nd and 3rd round has cost us a championship.  Can you say more about this?

 

 

 

Yes, I think he drafted poorly in rd 2-3 in the last few years and it may have cost us a a championship.  
 

Brief summary on each pick within your quotation is enough to show how it may have cost us a championship.  
 

I don’t care to get into the %’s of 2nd and 3rd rd picks that succeed.  I didn’t like several of the picks at the time and those picks have done next to nothing to help our team.  In most cases they hurt our team.  Considering that we were a second away from possibly winning a SB 2 seasons ago, I can say that drafting other players instead of the busts COULD have cost us a championship.  Or more.

Edited August 4, 2023 by NewEra

[BillsShredder83]

NO CAMP TODAY?

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

NO CAMP TODAY?

4pm

[wppete]

Is there a scrimmage today? How do we watch the scrimmage today? Anyone know?

[NickelCity]

Waiting til 4 is a real pain in the ass for us junkies. 

[balln]

54 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, I think he drafted poorly in rd 2-3 in the last few years and it may have cost us a a championship.  
 

Brief summary on each pick within your quotation is enough to show how it may have cost us a championship.  
 

I don’t care to get into the %’s of 2nd and 3rd rd picks that succeed.  I didn’t like several of the picks at the time and those picks have done next to nothing to help our team.  In most cases they hurt our team.  Considering that we were a second away from possibly winning a SB 2 seasons ago, I can say that drafting other players instead of the busts COULD have cost us a championship.  Or more.

I’ll help. The chiefs drafted Chris jones in the 2nd. The chiefs drafted Travis kelce in the 3rd. Need to get more IMPACT freaking players / hit on some

picks BEANE! 
 

I think Kincaid will be beanes first outside of Josh Allen. I simply thinks all his other draft picks are JAgS w a few good starters (taron , Milano) 

 

also just think. He’s drafted with a 2 and 2 3s - DS, moss and cook. RBs that haven’t moved the needle or made big impact in a big game (still too early on cook tho) 

Edited August 4, 2023 by balln