4 cut candidates on Bills’ roster ahead of NFL training camp

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree. Believe me instead!

Maybe a 7th rounder. He has so much equity. 

yea, and that isn't even in the slightest arrogant? lol

[TFBillsfan]

49 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Agree...Basham and AJ aren't long for this team. You keep Hines as your KR and RB depth. This will probably be Morse's final season. Not sure what's happening with Murray or Marlowe but I think they'll be casualties too.

Disappointing if they move on from Boogie and AJE as that would be two major drafts misses in the 2nd round. Never understood the decision to draft Boogie in the 2nd after drafting Groot in the 1st. OL would have been a better area to target. Hopeful Torrence locks down an OG spot for many years and Spencer Brown improves in year 3.
 

I’m not sure Hamlin is a lock to make the roster. So grateful things turned out positive for him but his play on the field will need to significantly improve.

[BuffaloMatt]

I have none. 

[Big Blitz]

Morse isn’t going anywhere.  

[LABILLBACKER]

16 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Disappointing if they move on from Boogie and AJE as that would be two major drafts misses in the 2nd round. Never understood the decision to draft Boogie in the 2nd after drafting Groot in the 1st. OL would have been a better area to target. Hopeful Torrence locks down an OG spot for many years and Spencer Brown improves in year 3.
 

I’m not sure Hamlin is a lock to make the roster. So grateful things turned out positive for him but his play on the field will need to significantly improve.

Spencer improving this season is absolutely mandatory to our success.  Josh cannot get hammered from the right side like he did last year. I'm rooting for Damar to at least make the 53.  Even if he's the last safety off the bench.

[The Avenger]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

No offense but why do people insist on weighing in on what’s best for players and their profession?

 

I’m sure that Mitch is a big boy that can make grown up decisions not to mention team doctors that say it’s OK for him to play.

Never made a judgment about what he should do - I know he's cleared to play and has made his own decision. That said, given his history it would not be shocking at all to see him call it quits if he got another concussion - I just can't see that Mitch is going to elect to play through multiple further concussions. Team needs to be ready if/when he gets to that point.

[RoyBatty is alive]

24 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Disappointing if they move on from Boogie and AJE as that would be two major drafts misses in the 2nd round. Never understood the decision to draft Boogie in the 2nd after drafting Groot in the 1st. OL would have been a better area to target. Hopeful Torrence locks down an OG spot for many years and Spencer Brown improves in year 3.
 

I’m not sure Hamlin is a lock to make the roster. So grateful things turned out positive for him but his play on the field will need to significantly improve.

Agree on Boogie and and Groot in the 1wst 2 rounds, equally as frustrating was watching the Bills late draft two scatback wrs in the 2018 NFL draft, Ray Ray  Mcclouds and Ausitn Proehl.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

yea, and that isn't even in the slightest arrogant? lol

You reap what you sow. Not intended for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by newcam2012

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, Taro Nimbus said:

They will trim down the defensive line before anything.  Basham and Epinesa are probably on the way out. 

I think AJ is safe because he fills a role. Boogie is definitely on the fence and according to my lady friend, needs to focus more on the field/ playbook. 

16 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Agree on Boogie and and Groot in the 1wst 2 rounds, equally as frustrating was watching the Bills late draft two scatback wrs in the 2018 NFL draft, Ray Ray  Mcclouds and Ausitn Proehl.

We drafted Proehl because McDermott was friends with the family and Ray Ray was like the 5th best Clemson wr on his team. It’s amazing he’s in the nfl still. 

[billybrew1]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/4-cut-candidates-on-bills-roster-ahead-of-nfl-training-camp/ar-AA1dE08J?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=711a4dba575746aa98de8c5f655de11a&ei=13

 

Mitch Morse

Center Mitch Morse has struggled with injuries and has a high salary cap hit. According to reports, the Bills could save $6-7 million in cap space by cutting Morse. He is a reliable center for the Bills, but his $11.3 million salary is a lot to pay for a player who has not been playing at an elite level. According to PFF’s metrics, Morse was the 24th-ranked center in the league and gave up three sacks during the 2022 season  (What the article does not explain is the trash guards Morse has had around him that does severly effect "pff metrics"

 

 

Latavius Murray

Running back Latavius Murray is likewise a cut candidate despite being signed in the offseason. He currently sits third on the pecking order behind James Cook and Damien Harris. Murray has a high salary cap hit of $3.5 million, and the Bills have a crowded backfield. Take note that the Bills typically have four running backs on their roster, but one of those spots went to Taiwan Jones, who primarily played special teams. Latavius Murray has not played much special teams later in his career, so he may not fit that role.

(I can see this happening but they need bodies for camp. And i find that funny considering the next player on the list.)

 

 

Nyheim Hines

If Murray stays, then we think another running back might get cut, and that’s Nyheim Hines. While he is a talented player, Hines is behind Murray on the depth chart as of today. Again, the Bills have a crowded backfield and may need to make some tough decisions about which players to keep. His role on the Buffalo Bills is being questioned, as the team could save $4.8 million by cutting him since he has no guaranteed money in 2023. (I guess they forgot about his contribution's on the special teams... They say we are crowded yet Mims is likely PS candidate that leaves us with 4 RB's  /Last year we had 2 RB's that played special teams, Jones and Hines. )

 

 

Dean Marlowe

Safety Dean Marlowe recently signed a one-year deal to return to the Bills. However, he faces an uphill battle at safety. Recall that the Bills already have Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer, Taylor Rapp, and Damar Hamlin. Marlowe was acquired by the Bills amid Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer’s injury, and he became a starter after Damar Hamlin’s injury in the playoffs. While Marlowe made an impact in the playoffs, he faces tough competition for a roster spot in the crowded secondary. This is the only one that makes sense.

 

You would think these guys would be talking with people with a little more insight to what is going on then first appearances and pff.  

 

thoughts? 

I don’t know but there has to be a surprise cut this year… My guess is Bates is traded…. But I really don’t feel real strong about that either…. Murray is probably a PS guy but I hope we find a spot for him somehow….

[947]

4 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Depth behind Morse is where i just don't see it.  Maybe Bates can be close to as good, but if he were to miss any time its a huge drop off to the next guys.  I also think having familiarity with the QB is huge.  Offensive line hasn't been a strength under Beane so I don't think its wise to move someone who's been one of our better starters here. 

I think Bates is little to no drop off from Morse, and probably a better run-blocker. The problem we had with Bates playing Center was that forced us to have 2 awful OGs on the field instead of just 1 in Saffold.

 

Now that we've added 3 OGs who are all upgrades, we'll be in a solid position if Bates plays Center. And let's face it, Morse is more likely to miss some time this season than play all 17 games.

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I thought Himes restructured to lower his salary but got guaranteed money to do so?

 

Article seems poorly written with no understanding of what has happened this off-season.

Exactly… also the Bills are NOT getting rid of Morse.  

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, TFBillsfan said:

Disappointing if they move on from Boogie and AJE as that would be two major drafts misses in the 2nd round. Never understood the decision to draft Boogie in the 2nd after drafting Groot in the 1st. OL would have been a better area to target. Hopeful Torrence locks down an OG spot for many years and Spencer Brown improves in year 3.
 

I’m not sure Hamlin is a lock to make the roster. So grateful things turned out positive for him but his play on the field will need to significantly improve.

I 100% get the logic with the back-to-back DE’s in 2021.  At the time, the Bills had two age DE’s on the final years of their contract.  Epinesa had kind of a “meh” rookie season.  
 

The idea was bring the DE’s along slowly which would groom them for a starting role in 2022.   I think the hope was that atleast 2/3 DE’s would develope enough to give them a good.  pass rush - but it was clear that wasn’t going to be the case.  

 

I think that Rosseau has proved to be a solid competent starting DE - though he hasn’t shown dominant pass rush skills consistently.   Big year for him.  
 

Epinesa appears to be a decent rotational DE who can play special teams.  Not really what you want from a 2nd round pick.  
 

Boogie can’t even get on the field, so I don’t have high expectations for him.  
 

The approach of drafting DE’s wasn’t a bad one - but 2/3 selections were

[Don Otreply]

Morse isn’t going anywhere, 

who else is playing center at his level?

 

Hines isn’t going anywhere, 

his STs contributions as a return specialist alone make him pretty much a lock.

 

Hamlin, Murray and several others are more likely to be traded/released. 53 & the PS guys, lots of guys won’t be here come game day. 

 

 

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm not sure how the team views Damar's status right now, or if he will be on the team in training camp as though nothing happened....but I can't see him playing on the team again.  I'm sure the team will be handling this in a sensitive way.

 

 

Imo, this is closer to the truth than some may want to hear, Can’t see the risk management people at OBD saying that it would be a good idea to keep him on the team / play the guy, maybe it’s just me, 

[T master]

7 hours ago, Taro Nimbus said:

They will trim down the defensive line before anything.  Basham and Epinesa are probably on the way out. 

 

Not to mention that they are younger players that have shown some improvement & production so they might be better to get something back from another team when it comes to draft capital .

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

The Bills have a surplus of interior lineman so could see Morse getting cut as does save money.  Less likely here, but could happen.

 

Perhaps they will cut Morse so they can get Hopkins that so many seem to want.

Bills will then offer to put Morse on PS so he can continue to get insurance and PT as needed if he does not find a position.

 

Not my plan since I think Hopkins is more interested in paycheck (which is why he went to Arizona) and will not keep healthy enough to play to end of whatever contract he signs.  Availability is very important.

2 hours ago, 947 said:

I think Bates is little to no drop off from Morse, and probably a better run-blocker. The problem we had with Bates playing Center was that forced us to have 2 awful OGs on the field instead of just 1 in Saffold.

 

Now that we've added 3 OGs who are all upgrades, we'll be in a solid position if Bates plays Center. And let's face it, Morse is more likely to miss some time this season than play all 17 games.

 

I agree about Bates if he has time in training camp and preseason to concentrate on center.

[Mr. WEO]

7 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That rule favors Hines. Why does everyone think that every returner is going to town it within say the 10? Hines is talented enough to take risks when asked to. HE will keep special teams on their toes. You think they wont let a guy like Hines go for it often enough?

I would argue right now that a healthy Morse is better than Bates and its not close for me. Again, having 2 good guards around a Center changes everything. 

 

What was Morse's PFF score in 2021?  Who were the star G's around him?

[27yanks]

Guess we'll know by week one who our center will be. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Perhaps they will cut Morse so they can get Hopkins that so many seem to want.

Bills will then offer to put Morse on PS so he can continue to get insurance and PT as needed if he does not find a position.

 

Can't see the timing work on this as whomever they cut very likely won't be cut till late August.  I think it would be a real waste to spend money on Hopkins when he had no time prior to work with the offense.

 

I'd think teams with good chance of going deep in playoffs like Bills, KC etc would give Hopkins a deadline of maybe August 1st at the latest.  If you don't sign with us by then, we're out.   

[BillsFan130]

9 hours ago, Rico said:

I don’t know about being an early cut, but I do think this is Morse’s last year in Buffalo, maybe Tre White’s as well.

Morse I agree.

 

Tre, I’m pretty sure they are stuck with him for at least a couple more seasons as they did a re structure with him not too long ago

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I 100% get the logic with the back-to-back DE’s in 2021.  At the time, the Bills had two age DE’s on the final years of their contract.  Epinesa had kind of a “meh” rookie season.  
 

The idea was bring the DE’s along slowly which would groom them for a starting role in 2022.   I think the hope was that atleast 2/3 DE’s would develope enough to give them a good.  pass rush - but it was clear that wasn’t going to be the case.  

 

I think that Rosseau has proved to be a solid competent starting DE - though he hasn’t shown dominant pass rush skills consistently.   Big year for him.  
 

Epinesa appears to be a decent rotational DE who can play special teams.  Not really what you want from a 2nd round pick.  
 

Boogie can’t even get on the field, so I don’t have high expectations for him.  
 

The approach of drafting DE’s wasn’t a bad one - but 2/3 selections were

Yes, Boogie will be the first one shown the door. They'll likely keep AJE one more season cause he's a cheap rotational guy who can get ya 5-6 sacks. Groot absolutely must take that next step because Miller/Floyd won't be around long term. 

[benderbender]

Beane didn't get to where he is by cutting people he could trade. Hines is worth more now that when we have up Moss and a 6th for him. There were only 6 KR TDs last year and Hines had 2 of them. He's not getting cut. 

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

What was Morse's PFF score in 2021?  Who were the star G's around him?

Sir i do not have pff any more. i believe his base was in low to mid 60's but you know who his guards were by him and how bad they were....

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Sir i do not have pff any more. i believe his base was in low to mid 60's but you know who his guards were by him and how bad they were....

 

they were much better in 2021?

[PrimeTime101]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

they were much better in 2021?

Do you have a point man? I mean... to answer your question, I would say the quality was the same depending on who played. Saffold was a mess and got beat often when he started. It just depended who was on the field but I am sure your point is that if the quality was the same and Morse got worse why would we blame the guards. And to the answer to that was poor quality starters depending on the week of the season. 

 

The degression of the line had much to do with when Saffold was starting and if you cant agree with me on that, then these numbers do not lie. BASE PFF for Saffold last year? 43.7 overall, 10 penalties (6th in the league)

 

You have a guy like that starting next to your Center, it most certainly does effect the Centers ability to do his job. 

.Not taking the double teams properly against 1 tech

.Not sliding to one side or another to support as he should.

the list could go on. 

 

And for people that think Bates was good or even average on the other side? His base pff was 61.8. Obviously better then Saffold but nothing great right?  And speaking of OLINE Men on the decline? Bates was 67.5 in 2020 and went down to 61.8 and if that is not enough for you? Dawkins went from a 78.1 in 2020 to a 73.5 in 22. Guys around you matter when it comes to the Lines. 

 

I do not know how else to answer your vague questions then this.  

[Doc Brown]

12 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Latavius Murray

Running back Latavius Murray is likewise a cut candidate despite being signed in the offseason. He currently sits third on the pecking order behind James Cook and Damien Harris. Murray has a high salary cap hit of $3.5 million, and the Bills have a crowded backfield. Take note that the Bills typically have four running backs on their roster, but one of those spots went to Taiwan Jones, who primarily played special teams. Latavius Murray has not played much special teams later in his career, so he may not fit that role.

(I can see this happening but they need bodies for camp. And i find that funny considering the next player on the list.)

Am I missing something as spotrac has Murray as counting only $1.09 million against the cap with $152k signing bonus?  We only save about $210k by cutting him.

[Utah John]

The Bills do have a safety who's played for them in the past few years but who always seemed to be a little too slow and often out of position.  His name is Damar Hamlin.  But could the Bills really cut Saint Damar?

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Am I missing something as spotrac has Murray as counting only $1.09 million against the cap with $152k signing bonus?  We only save about $210k by cutting him.

no you are not... and again... This is another example of why we should not listen to media.. cause this will now be considered a source for another media outlet and thats how bs spreads. 

[Yantha]

I think that the article in the OP is really off.......  I'll just touch on the RB point and then add my own speculation: 

Damien Harris has a very hard time with injuries, and I think that Murray needs to stay on as insurance.  Hines is one to watch despite the relatively recent signing.  Might come down to emerging talent at KR/PR, but I still like him on the 53...

 

Personally I think AJ Epenesa is someone who might be battling to keep a spot.  I think he's done in Buffalo with Leonard Floyd here, and Von coming back at some point in the season.  We're good at DE without Epenesa, and I'd like to give his spot to a player with upside (watch DT DJ Dale in preseason).  Epenesa's ceiling is well known....

Edited July 11, 2023 by Yantha

[Doc Brown]

50 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The Bills do have a safety who's played for them in the past few years but who always seemed to be a little too slow and often out of position.  His name is Damar Hamlin.  But could the Bills really cut Saint Damar?

Weird swipe at Damar but they're not going to cut a quality backup who will now have three years in their system at a cost controlled rookie deal.

[JoPoy88]

15 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

Damar got injured in the playoffs?

drives me crazy too. These guys can’t get basic facts right.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Morse I agree.

 

Tre, I’m pretty sure they are stuck with him for at least a couple more seasons as they did a re structure with him not too long ago

 

Only $10m dead for Tre after this year. Designated as post June and split in two that is very affordable. If he doesn't look good this year he is done after the season. 

4 hours ago, Yantha said:

I think that the article in the OP is really off.......  I'll just touch on the RB point and then add my own speculation: 

Damien Harris has a very hard time with injuries, and I think that Murray needs to stay on as insurance.  Hines is one to watch despite the relatively recent signing.  Might come down to emerging talent at KR/PR, but I still like him on the 53...

 

Personally I think AJ Epenesa is someone who might be battling to keep a spot.  I think he's done in Buffalo with Leonard Floyd here, and Von coming back at some point in the season.  We're good at DE without Epenesa, and I'd like to give his spot to a player with upside (watch DT DJ Dale in preseason).  Epenesa's ceiling is well known....

 

No way they are cutting AJE. He had his best season last year, actually post Von was our most effective rusher and is still cheap as chips on the final year of his rookie deal. Groot, Von, Floyd and AJE are nailed on as our top 4 edge guys IMO. 

[CSBill]

18 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Boogie for sure. AJ I think they'll keep. 

 

I think it's the opposite. They are equal in their edge play, but Boogie can play inside, and AJ is Aaron Maybin repackaged.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Do you have a point man? I mean... to answer your question, I would say the quality was the same depending on who played. Saffold was a mess and got beat often when he started. It just depended who was on the field but I am sure your point is that if the quality was the same and Morse got worse why would we blame the guards. And to the answer to that was poor quality starters depending on the week of the season. 

 

The degression of the line had much to do with when Saffold was starting and if you cant agree with me on that, then these numbers do not lie. BASE PFF for Saffold last year? 43.7 overall, 10 penalties (6th in the league)

 

You have a guy like that starting next to your Center, it most certainly does effect the Centers ability to do his job. 

.Not taking the double teams properly against 1 tech

.Not sliding to one side or another to support as he should.

the list could go on. 

 

And for people that think Bates was good or even average on the other side? His base pff was 61.8. Obviously better then Saffold but nothing great right?  And speaking of OLINE Men on the decline? Bates was 67.5 in 2020 and went down to 61.8 and if that is not enough for you? Dawkins went from a 78.1 in 2020 to a 73.5 in 22. Guys around you matter when it comes to the Lines. 

 

I do not know how else to answer your vague questions then this.  

 

 

I was asking if Morse's PFF/performance dropped off last year solely because of the guards, as you claimed.  Showing me the delta form the year before re: Morse's PFF  and that of his previous guards would have been a strong way to demonstrate your point.  

 

 

 

[DJB]

For the past two seasons I keep seeing articles and posters saying “cut Morse”

 

Hes our best oline man and the key to success up front and everyone wants to cut him

 

Makes no sense 

[PrimeTime101]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I was asking if Morse's PFF/performance dropped off last year solely because of the guards, as you claimed.  Showing me the delta form the year before re: Morse's PFF  and that of his previous guards would have been a strong way to demonstrate your point.  

 

 

 

accept if you read what I said, i did that already. 

[The Frankish Reich]

21 hours ago, The Avenger said:

I like Mitch and don't think he'd be cut for performance reasons - not an all-pro but decent enough to start here. I just worry about his health - he could be one concussion away from retirement and I'd hate for that to happen. Part if me was a little surprised he's playing this year - really thought he might hang it up after last season.

I think ideally the Bills would've won the Super Bowl and Mitch would've walked away. 

He seems like a great person with a lot of commitments outside the game. It would be awful to see another concussion dictating the decision for him.

[JoPoy88]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Am I missing something as spotrac has Murray as counting only $1.09 million against the cap with $152k signing bonus?  We only save about $210k by cutting him.

 

8 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

no you are not... and again... This is another example of why we should not listen to media.. cause this will now be considered a source for another media outlet and thats how bs spreads. 

Yep - pay attention to the source. For example the author of this story is one “Enzo Flojo.” Enzo here is based in the Philippines and appears to be mostly concerned with FIBA basketball, according to his twitter account. He’s probably some kid in a blog farm in Manila cranking these things out for MSN at $0.25 a pop. 
 

I wish people would do a little bit of research on the author before posting these things here, but I know that’s too much to ask. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by JoPoy88

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, DJB said:

For the past two seasons I keep seeing articles and posters saying “cut Morse”

 

Hes our best oline man and the key to success up front and everyone wants to cut him

 

Makes no sense 

 

Dawkins is our best lineman. But Morse is a solid center. Good in pass pro, less so in run blocking. I would not support cutting him.