McDermott & Beane Extended Through 2027

[Success]

It's one of those "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" things.

 

A team could spend its entire existence looking for an elite coach.  But there just aren't a lot of those.  McDermott is a really good coach, and has proven that.  This team wins a lot. He always gameplans well, and makes good adjustments. 

 

It would be an enormous gamble switching coaches now, or in the next few years.  McDermott has what it takes to win it all.

 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Success said:

It's one of those "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" things.

 

A team could spend its entire existence looking for an elite coach.  But there just aren't a lot of those.  McDermott is a really good coach, and has proven that.  This team wins a lot. He always gameplans well, and makes good adjustments. 

 

It would be an enormous gamble switching coaches now, or in the next few years.  McDermott has what it takes to win it all.

 

This is an easy concept that the resident “genius” can’t seem to grasp.

[pennstate10]

8 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Exactly the point he's making. None of those QBs can even compare to Allen. 

 

I think it's fair to say Allen makes a coaches job easier. Allen definelty equates to plenty of regular season wins. 

 

I'm on the record saying any decent coach could probably have taken the Bills to the playoffs the last few years. It says more about Allen than it does about McD. 

 

The risk factor is not great at all. I don't think this is a unrealistic statement. Allen is simply that good where the previous Bills QBs were not. 

 

Do the Bills with Allen win because of McD or despite McD come regular season and playoff time? How much do the Bills win or lose because of Allen or McD? No easy answers there. 

 

What's pretty indefensible is Allen equates to the Bills winning. Can you say the same for McD? Can another coach do more or less? 

 

 

If you look at this from a purely logical point of view, you cannot say that Allen without McD is a winner in the NFL. There is no evidence for that because it has never happened. Allen hasn’t played a down in the NFL without McD. So any opinion as to whether Allen equates to Bills winning is simply a guess, an opinion not based upon fact. 
 

On the other hand, if you ask whether McD can produce a playoff team without Allen, the answer is yes. It happened with a pretty marginal QB who only started a few games after leaving the Bills, and never led a team to the playoffs without McD as a coach. 
 

Lookit, I think Allen is a top 3 QB in the NFL, and I’m glad he’s on our team. But I also think McD is far and away the best Bills coach in this century, and a top 3 Bills coach of all time. McD and Beane turned the Bills from a perennial loser to a consistent top 5 team in the NFL. 
 

Winning a SuperBowl requires a bit of luck. Ask Jim Kelly. If his kicker truck the ball a couple millimeter s to the left, he’d be a Super Bowl champ. If Levi Wallace had played smarter coverage in the 13 sec, not allowing inside release, Bills might have been Super Bowl winners. If Bills D hadn’t been down 2 of top 3 DL and both safeties then Bills may have won. 
 

it’s maddening to listen to folks pretend McD is some average coach. He’s very good. 

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Probably that order, greatest to worst.

 

Wow, so just to clarify you would put the greatest odds on us not winning the division then?  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

McNabb was good but I think you’re overrating him a bit. He averaged 18 TD’s per season. That’s pretty low.

It took him 8 seasons to have as many passing TD’s as Allen has in 5 (not even including rushing TD’s).

 

That Super Bowl year you mentioned seemed to break him. He only had 2 seasons with more than 20 TD’s the remainder of his 7 year career.

 

 

 

 

What matters is how they related to their peers.

 

McNabb was considered a top 5 QB and the second most athletic QB(to Mike Vick) of that 5 year period from 2000-2004 while usually playing with a bottom 5 receiving corps that tamped his passing and efficiency stats down.    In 2000 he was the runner-up for NFL MVP and in 2004 he was even better.    He wasn't some pedestrian QB.

 

I'd like to say Allen is BETTER relative to his peers.........but either way the distance between McNabb being top 5 and however we view the similarly "overall-game-over-passing-efficiency" style of Josh Allen isn't THAT much different.    

 

From 2005-2007 McNabb started getting hurt regularly and missed 15 games over that period but he was still one of the best QB's in the league........and with poor receiving talent around him.    He got kind of a raw deal in Philly.   

 

[BuffaloFan68]

Come-on Beane - time to sign D-Hop!

Lets Go Buffalo 🦬 

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Success said:

It's one of those "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" things.

 

A team could spend its entire existence looking for an elite coach.  But there just aren't a lot of those.  McDermott is a really good coach, and has proven that.  This team wins a lot. He always gameplans well, and makes good adjustments. 

 

It would be an enormous gamble switching coaches now, or in the next few years.  McDermott has what it takes to win it all.

 

 

People overrate the extent to which McD is responsible for our success, and underrated the extent to which he is responsible for not winning it all.  

 

Give any coach that we've had over the past 20 years this team with Allen, and they don't do worse.  

 

As to 2017, he was a game better than Ryan's team two seasons earlier with a similar roster, had the same record as Marrone in 2014 did with Orton at QB, and made the playoffs on pure luck with two other notably more qualified 9-7 teams missing out.  And nothing says success like giving up a 16-0 lead to a mediocre Houston team in the playoffs while allowing 264 yards in about 20 minutes to lose in the WC Round there.  I mean what, absolutely phenominal defensive coaching there, superlative.  LOL  

 

Other than that, the only success that McD has had was after Allen exploded to become one of the best QBs in the history of the game.  It's beyond comprehension as to why he'd have ever achieved more than 7-10 wins, ever, without Allen taking that leap.  It's mindboggling to assume anything else.  The only reasons are excuses.  

 

 

[without a drought]

48 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I’m not arguing with anyone about anything. 
 

I just think, and always have thought, it’s a dumb moniker. 

At least we can all relax knowing that BeDerrmott is signed thru 2027.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

“ holding them accountable”

 

Those words make it sound like they’re not doing everything he can to improve the team. This is probably the most loaded roster that this team has ever had this year.

 

General managers, acquire talent

Coaches coach

Players play

 

The general manager and the coaches are doing their jobs. The team is top 5 to 7 on both offense and defense. One team wins the Super Bowl every year.

 

They have either been in the playoffs or in the conference finals for the last what four years

 

Some of winning a Super Bowl is just good or bad luck

 

Maybe don't play fast and loose with context. Directly after the "holding them accountable" that you quote is "and expecting playoff wins beyond the Wild Card round." That is not the same as requiring a Super Bowl victory to justify the Process and it is rather dishonest to portray my statements as implying that. I've written quite a bit about the formidable and unprecedented factors that hurt the team last year. One should take mitigating circumstances and sheer luck into consideration. All that said, the playoff performances remain uneven and a question mark. They will figure it out or they won't. I hope they accomplish great things. They changed the culture and have built a quality team. It still has to be better and I am pretty sure McDermott and Beane would agree with that.

[without a drought]

Everyone here would love a Super Bowl victory?

 

How many could handle another Super Bowl loss?

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, without a drought said:

At least we can all relax knowing that BeDerrmott is signed thru 2027.

 

Well, it will definitely be interesting to see how relaxed everyone is following this season now that we have the Carolina coaching staff from McD's days @ Carolina.  

 

Why am I not inspired.  

 

 

[without a drought]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, it will definitely be interesting to see how relaxed everyone is following this season now that we have the Carolina coaching staff from McD's days @ Carolina.  

 

Why am I not inspired.  

 

 

It was more of a way for using BeDermott in a sentence than conveying a message on the signing.

[Einstein]

30 minutes ago, Success said:

It's one of those "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" things.

 

This is the rallying cry of every loser. The victors show off their rings.

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

 

Why am I not inspired.  

 

 

Because you were spoiled as a child?

Because you have an inability to grasp reality?

Because you’ve watched too many movies and expect a perfect ending to everything always?

Because you’re trolling?

 

There are probably other options out there but a combination of the above has a 99.782% chance of being the cause.

[Einstein]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

and expect a perfect ending to everything always?

 

Forget about “always”. How about ever? 

 

Other teams figure out how to get that perfect ending 2, 3, 4, even 6 times.

[4merper4mer]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

Forget about “always”. How about ever? 

 

Other teams figure out how to get that perfect ending 2, 3, 4, even 6 times.

Nick Sirianni next on the chopping block?  Shanahan?  

[Success]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

This is the rallying cry of every loser. The victors show off their rings.

 

That's a lazy comment.  NFL history has plenty of examples of patience w/ a coach paying off.

 

[PBF81]

19 minutes ago, without a drought said:

Everyone here would love a Super Bowl victory?

 

How many could handle another Super Bowl loss?

 

I would have trouble with losing in the WC or D Round again, which should be considered entirely unacceptable by every loyal and true Bills fan given that we have Allen.  

 

People constantly compare McD (with Allen) to Reid (with McNabb), which besides being absurd for that reason, is even more absurd when we consider that in his first 6 seasons Reid lost in the D-Round once, went to the NFC CG four times, and advanced to the Super Bowl once.  

 

McD in his first 7 seasons has lost in the WC-Round twice, lost in the D-Round twice, and lost in the CG once, with each and every playoff loss being humiliating, arguably more humiliating then the one before. 

 

In 2017 we posted our worst offensive performance of the season and lost to Marrone's Jags with Bortles at QB.  

In 2019 we allowed nearly 200 yards in the last 20 minutes of our Wild Card loss to Houston, giving up 19 points and not even being able to score a FG in OT.  

In 2020 we were blown out by the Chiefs who posted one of the best offensive games of the season against us.  

In 2021 we had the AFC Championship won, but McD decided that we didn't want to win and handed it to Reid and the Chiefs in what is the biggest playoffs coaching blunder in modern history if not in league history altogether.  It would have been the equivalent of punting on the infamous "Wide Right" play so as to improve our field-position as the clock hit 0:00.  

Last season, 2022, LOL, worst overall playoffs to date, barely eking by Skylar Thompson, who likely won't ever start another NFL game, before getting utterly blown out by Cincy.  

 

So yeah, what's not to get excited about come playoff time, and now with increased competition and better opposing coaching.  Like someone said, McD's the third best coach in our division.  Saleh had his team playing far more inspired football with fire and passion than McD did, and that was with historically bad crap at QB.  McDaniel whowed more imagination last season than McD has in 6 seasons here.  

 

 

12 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Because you were spoiled as a child?

Because you have an inability to grasp reality?

Because you’ve watched too many movies and expect a perfect ending to everything always?

Because you’re trolling?

 

There are probably other options out there but a combination of the above has a 99.782% chance of being the cause.

 

See above.  

 

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by PBF81

[BeastMaster]

45 minutes ago, Success said:

It's one of those "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" things.

 

A team could spend its entire existence looking for an elite coach.  But there just aren't a lot of those.  McDermott is a really good coach, and has proven that.  This team wins a lot. He always gameplans well, and makes good adjustments. 

 

It would be an enormous gamble switching coaches now, or in the next few years.  McDermott has what it takes to win it all.

 

This is simply you saying something as if it's true with zero evidence to back your claim

 

He's actually shown to be more likely to fail in the biggest moments than to succeed, so if we were to put his chances at winning it all, it would have to be less than 50%

[ddaryl]

24 minutes ago, without a drought said:

How many could handle another Super Bowl loss?

 

Thats my biggest fear

 

my 2nd biggest fear is world annihilation before I die.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

52 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Wow, so just to clarify you would put the greatest odds on us not winning the division then?  

 

 

I think of the things listed that is the most likely to happen. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Awwufelloff said:

Mahomes is Mahomes because of Reid. Do you see the play calling? It’s incredible. I would watch last yr and witnessed Allen playing hero ball nearly every snap. I want an offensive minded coach, McDermott ain’t him. I’ll wait for full justification until after this season. If this year is similar I want him gone. 

Absolutely! Evidenced by all the superbowls Reid has before Mahomes…oh wait. 

[The Wiz]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think something will give soon. Either McDermott misses the playoffs, loses a wild card game, or makes a Super Bowl. One of these will happen soon. 

He's already done the first two, he's going for the full card bingo.

[NeverOutNick]

Absolutely LOVE the Beane extension and HATE the McDermott extension. Not sure why they had to be a package deal on this. 

 

McD was definitely in my mind on a prove it deal this year. Offensive minded coaches would’ve been drooling to get to be the HC of a Josh Allen led franchise
 

I am thoroughly hoping my gut is wrong but McD seems to have petered out on his ceiling with this team. I want him to be successful because he’s a great human being and an amazing leader but when it comes to in game decisions he leaves me lacking. A great offensive minded HC that could keep developing Allen into the someday best QB ever would be ideal because that’s the talent we have with Josh and I don’t want it to be capped off with mediocrity around him. Here’s hoping my gut is wrong and McD and Dorsey have a next level of creativity to make this the perennial Super Bowl team we know it can be

[par73]

47 minutes ago, without a drought said:

Everyone here would love a Super Bowl victory?

 

How many could handle another Super Bowl loss?

Well, you have to get in to win. My concern is this duo may have taken the team as far as they can.

[Airseven]

31 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Nick Sirianni next on the chopping block?  Shanahan?  

Not yet. The concern with this Bills regime is trajectory. Under McDermott/Beane, they improved, became a playoff contender, and advanced from wildcard round to the Chiefs matchups. Last year was a step back and one wonders if Allen-to-Davis at :13 in the ‘22 divisional round was this regime’s peak.
 

Now that they’re back in cap jail, settling for recycled one-year vets to fill out the roster, continuing to prioritize DL over OL, not seeing development from draftees, and seemingly everyone else in the AFC is improving…it’s a fair question.

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think of the things listed that is the most likely to happen. 

 

Interesting.  I guess if I had to order them, here's how I'd place it in greatest odds order:  

 

1.   Losing in the WC Round  (Good)  

2.  Losing in the Divisional Round  (Good)  

3.  Not winning the division (aka being a Wild-Card)  (Good)  

4.  Winning the AFC  (Poor)  

5.  Missing the playoffs  (Slim)  

6.  Winning the Super Bowl (Slim to nil) 

 

Where I'm probably underestimating is that this will be the toughest AFC East division since Levy's days, possibly even longer since only Miami/Shula/Marino were consistently good back then.  It should also be the toughest conference that we've seen in many many years, predating McD's arrival.  We've had it pretty easy 'til now, except for Brady's Pats against whom we were 0-6 against with average PF/PA of 10.7 / 24.8.  

 

But for now I'm finding it difficult to think that we'd miss the playoffs unless Allen misses a significant amount of time.  If that happens I'd put the odds of us even making that playoffs at Slim-to-nil.  

 

 

15 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

He's already done the first two, he's going for the full card bingo.

 

Agreed, it's shaping up that even more so than last season Beane's gone all-in this season.  

 

Toughest division in decades though.  This the first time in decades where there's been more than one two good QBs in the division, and NE with Jones/Belichick, unfortunately, cannot be ruled out either.  

 

 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, pennstate10 said:

If you look at this from a purely logical point of view, you cannot say that Allen without McD is a winner in the NFL. There is no evidence for that because it has never happened. Allen hasn’t played a down in the NFL without McD. So any opinion as to whether Allen equates to Bills winning is simply a guess, an opinion not based upon fact. 
 

On the other hand, if you ask whether McD can produce a playoff team without Allen, the answer is yes. It happened with a pretty marginal QB who only started a few games after leaving the Bills, and never led a team to the playoffs without McD as a coach. 
 

Lookit, I think Allen is a top 3 QB in the NFL, and I’m glad he’s on our team. But I also think McD is far and away the best Bills coach in this century, and a top 3 Bills coach of all time. McD and Beane turned the Bills from a perennial loser to a consistent top 5 team in the NFL. 
 

Winning a SuperBowl requires a bit of luck. Ask Jim Kelly. If his kicker truck the ball a couple millimeter s to the left, he’d be a Super Bowl champ. If Levi Wallace had played smarter coverage in the 13 sec, not allowing inside release, Bills might have been Super Bowl winners. If Bills D hadn’t been down 2 of top 3 DL and both safeties then Bills may have won. 
 

it’s maddening to listen to folks pretend McD is some average coach. He’s very good. 

I never said McD isn't a very good coach. In fact, I'm on the record saying he's good and very good is realistic. It's also realistic to think he's not the guy that can lead the team to a SB. Sure it's all based on one's perception. 

 

It's pretty logical to say Allen elevates McD. You yourself say Allen is a top three QB in the league. It's pretty foolish to think a top three QB with any resemblance of a decent coach wouldn't be successful. 

 

The real question isn't if McD is a good or very good coach. It's whether he can further advance the team in the playoffs. Win a AFC Conference Championship game and go to the SB. Win a SB. Thus far, he's track record is very mediocre. 4- 5 to be exact. McD had squandered several opportunities. No need to reinterate them. 

 

It's all opinion based on whether McD will be more or less successful in the playoffs. Both sides have their valid opinions. No one really knows. 

 

As for me, I've seen enough and I'd gladly like to see a coaching change. Of course, many others dissent and advocate for McD to steady the course. 

 

Go Bills!

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Maybe don't play fast and loose with context. Directly after the "holding them accountable" that you quote is "and expecting playoff wins beyond the Wild Card round." That is not the same as requiring a Super Bowl victory to justify the Process and it is rather dishonest to portray my statements as implying that. I've written quite a bit about the formidable and unprecedented factors that hurt the team last year. One should take mitigating circumstances and sheer luck into consideration. All that said, the playoff performances remain uneven and a question mark. They will figure it out or they won't. I hope they accomplish great things. They changed the culture and have built a quality team. It still has to be better and I am pretty sure McDermott and Beane would agree with that.

So I hate to break this to you, but the bills have been beyond the wildcard round and recently

[Punching Bag]

15 hours ago, Dopey said:

Sounds like you think he should have been canned already. KC held onto Reid for 7 years until he won a SB. McDermott is entering his 7th year. I’m sure some KC fans were acting like you. Good thing management and ownership don’t listen to fans who think they can run the franchise better. 

 

I am sure there are some other owners he could help.  He should try other fanbases.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, section122 said:

To your last paragraph:

 

The point of my question is to show that they haven't underachieved as you said in the original post I responded to. 

 

Winning the super bowl requires a tremendous amount of luck.  The Bills have run up against and lost to better teams.  That isnt underachieving.

 

Lost in all the 13 seconds game that people havent been able to move on from is that the Chiefs lost at home the next week to the Bengals.  Clearly the chiefs and bills were very evenly matched.  Why is it a guarantee that not only the Bills would have beat the Bengals but then also the Rams.

 

You complain about 4-5 in the playoffs.  You are missing so much context here.  4 wins in the last 6 years by a team is the 8th most.  Since Allen came into his own in 2020 they are tied for the 5th most wins in the playoffs.  The only teams above them are super bowl winners and cincy.

 

The reality is burrow and mahomes are every bit as good as Allen.  The afc is probably in the middle of the best qb era ever.  Those 3 and herbert, rodgers, tua, lamar, and trevor lawrence.  Add in deshaun watson and russel wilson.  That's 10 good to great qbs in the conference.

 

If you'd like to play a game, name any coach in the nfl and I can knock them in the exact way you are knocking McDermott.  The fact is the Bills have been one of the best teams in the nfl over his tenure. 

 

Winning the super bowl is the final bar to clear but there is no real reason to think he can't do it other than he hasn't done it which is silly.  

I think your mindset is here is pretty passive. Not saying that's a bad thing but I prefer to think more assertively or aggressively. 

 

With that said, I think its pretty safe to say lots of Bills fans have been fairly disappointed with the Bills playoff performance over the years. Why? Because there were great chances to advance further that were lost. One contributing factor to that was coaching. To be honest poor coaching especially the last two years. 

 

To say the Bills lost to superior teams is a cop out and an excuse. In fact, I'm not sure that's true at all especially two years ago. Secondly, the best team doesn't always win. I'd say with confidence that the Rams weren't the best team in the NFL. Yet they won it all with great coaching and a dynamic young offensive coach. 

 

I understand the support for McD. Surely, it's more difficult to make the case against him then for him. It's tough to let a very good coach go. Its tough to let a go character guy go. It's tough to not rally behind a guy who was directly involved in turning around the franchise. I am not lost in that rationale. 

 

I don't hate the fact that the Bills extended McD. I think there is a path for him to further progress the team. Certainly, we have seen much worse. The status quo isn't terrible. 

 

However, I would rather see a coaching change. I've seen enough of the playoff McD. Those losses aren't as much about losing but more about how they lost. Poor coaching, poor schemes, poor preparation, and poor game time adjustments were quite evident. So to say the Bills lost to better teams fails short in my eyes. It doesn't tell a complete and accurate picture. 

 

There comes a time when a team has to cut ties with good coaches. It's done all the time in basketball. Jason Kidd, Monty Williams, Nick Nurse, Mike Budenholzer, Doc Rivers, etc...

 

Change isn't always a bad thing. I'd argue the logical progression forward has not been there with the Bills playoff failures. I think it's a thinking error to excuse that lack of progression by saying they lost to better teams. It's realistic to say the Bills had the best team two years ago. It's reasonable to think they would have represented the AFC and win the SB.

 

We will never no because the opportunity was lost in disastrous fashion. An epic coaching failure if you will. Follow that up with last year's playoff performances. Go back further and analyse the coaching staff of the Bills playoff performances under McD. That just doesn't illicit confidence...

Edited June 24, 2023 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

4 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's all good now, McD has things right where he wants them, and it's not as if he's a control freak or anything.

 

The entirety of our coaching staff, top 5 guys including McD, are the ones that led the Panthers to greatness under Riverra while McD was there. 

 

Collectively they're obviously the best coaching staff in the league because they all know each other so well.  And honestly, can you even argue that with their trophy case!  

 

We're in good hands with the coaching staff that the Panthers had under Riverra, a world-class coach in his own eyes, here in Buffalo.  

 

I mean just look the collective season unit rankings and stories playoff histories.

 

And just think about the greatness here!  If we had McD here in the "Wide Right" game, it never would have happened, we'd have punted for better field position when the game had ended.  

 

Everything's going to be great don'cha know. 

 

 

 

Sarcasm is a beautiful thing at times. 

 

If you will I'm about to walk on water with McD leading the way.

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

I thought you didn’t like beating the dead horse?

Maybe that falls into the 15% of my logical solid posts?

4 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Certainly, again not personal.  I like the man, and he is a good coach.

 

Bills defense in last 3 playoff losses:

 

CIN:  27 pts, 412 yards, 30 1st downs, 60% allowed on 3rd/4th down

 

KC:  42 pts, 552 yards, 30 1st downs, 64% allowed 3rd/4th down

 

KC:  38 pts, 439 yards, 29 1st downs, 64% on 3rd/4th downs

 

0 Turnovers forced and 4 total sacks

 

That's pretty eye opening especially when you consider McD is a defensive guru.

 

McD is on full display now. 

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I think your mindset is here is pretty passive. Not saying that's a bad thing but I prefer to think more assertively or aggressively. 

 

With that said, I think its pretty safe to say lots of Bills fans have been fairly disappointed with the Bills playoff performance over the years. Why? Because there were great chances to advance further that were lost. One contributing factor to that was coaching. To be honest poor coaching especially the last two years. 

 

To say the Bills lost to superior teams is a cop out and an excuse. In fact, I'm not sure that's true at all especially two years ago. Secondly, the best team doesn't always win. I'd say with confidence that the Rams weren't the best team in the NFL. Yet they won it all with great coaching and a dynamic young offensive coach. 

 

I understand the support for McD. Surely, it's more difficult to make the case against him then for him. It's tough to let a very good coach go. Its tough to let a go character guy go. It's tough to not rally behind a guy who was directly involved in turning around the franchise. I am not lost in that rationale. 

 

I don't hate the fact that the Bills extended McD. I think there is a path for him to further progress the team. Certainly, we have seen much worse. The status quo isn't terrible. 

 

However, I would rather see a coaching change. I've seen enough of the playoff McD. Those losses aren't as much about losing but more about how they lost. Poor coaching, poor schemes, poor preparation, and poor game time adjustments were quite evident. So to say the Bills lost to better teams fails short in my eyes. It doesn't tell a complete and accurate picture. 

 

There comes a time when a team has to cut ties with good coaches. It's done all the time in basketball. Jason Kidd, Monty Williams, Nick Nurse, Mike Budenholzer, Doc Rivers, etc...

 

Change isn't always a bad thing. I'd argue the logical progression forward has not been there with the Bills playoff failures. I think it's a thinking error to excuse that lack of progression by saying they lost to better teams. It's realistic to say the Bills had the best team two years ago. It's reasonable to think they would have represented the AFC and win the SB.

 

We will never no because the opportunity was lost in disastrous fashion. An epic coaching failure if you will. Follow that up with last year's playoff performances. Go back further and analyse the coaching staff of the Bills playoff performances under McD. That just doesn't illicit confidence...

The losses in the playoffs under McBean are too small of a sample size at this point (as our the wins).  He's 4-3 since Allen became elite in 2020. 

 

In basketball it's more of a fair argument that a great regular season coach can't get it done in the playoffs because it's a seven game series.  If a bad break bounces your way or you have an off day you still have six games to win four.  If your the better team and lose four out of seven coaching changes should be made even if that coach had a great regular season. 

 

Single elimination in the NFL makes for great playoff games but they often will let the worse team advance.  Which is why the best shot for a Super Bowl is simply getting a playoff spot year after year hoping you can cash in on one of those lottery tickets.  I know this same argument has been hashed out on this thread ad nauseum but the basketball comparison doesn't hold water imo.  

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Certainly, again not personal.  I like the man, and he is a good coach.

 

Bills defense in last 3 playoff losses:

 

CIN:  27 pts, 412 yards, 30 1st downs, 60% allowed on 3rd/4th down

 

KC:  42 pts, 552 yards, 30 1st downs, 64% allowed 3rd/4th down

 

KC:  38 pts, 439 yards, 29 1st downs, 64% on 3rd/4th downs

 

0 Turnovers forced and 4 total sacks

 

 

By a regular season #1 or #2 Defense on top of it.  

 

Then factor in our playoff loss in 2019 whereby our Defensive geniosity collapsed entirely in allowing the Texans to log nearly 200 yards of offense in scoring 19 points in about 20 minutes at the end of the game, to ***** defeat from the jaws of victory and a 16-0 lead.  The rest of our playoff victories were hardly impressive and the only one that both sides of the ball showed up in was the Patriots WC round game in the 2021 season.  We had that middle KC game won too, but our genius head coach seemed to think that handing the game away on a silver platter was a good idea at the time.  

 

Our playoff history is anything but impressive, if anything it's the opposite.  We now have as our top-five most senior coaches, coaches that were with McD in Carolina.  Not coincidentally, Carolina's playoffs track record seems to mimic what ours here is.  

It's definitely going to be an interesting season.  

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

I wonder if Pegs is checking out a bit to take care of his wife.   

The guy has all the $$ any 500 people could want, the franchise is a money machine, and solid if not spectacular guys are running it. 

The one thing money can't buy has perhaps been taken from him, could be stepping aside for a few years.   Can't blame him. 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

So I hate to break this to you, but the bills have been beyond the wildcard round and recently

Alright, done talking to you. They've been a disappointment in the playoffs in general. You think differently, that's your business. 

[Coach Tuesday]

14 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

The losses in the playoffs under McBean are too small of a sample size at this point (as our the wins).  He's 4-3 since Allen became elite in 2020. 

 

In basketball it's more of a fair argument that a great regular season coach can't get it done in the playoffs because it's a seven game series.  If a bad break bounces your way or you have an off day you still have six games to win four.  If your the better team and lose four out of seven coaching changes should be made even if that coach had a great regular season. 

 

Single elimination in the NFL makes for great playoff games but they often will let the worse team advance.  Which is why the best shot for a Super Bowl is simply getting a playoff spot year after year hoping you can cash in on one of those lottery tickets.  I know this same argument has been hashed out on this thread ad nauseum but the basketball comparison doesn't hold water imo.  

Agree with that.  The flip side is, with one game you’d better be ready to give it your best shot - and out-strategize the other team.  My feel is that McD deferred to Leslie wrt game planning on defense and Leslie’s view was basically, “I’m not changing what got us here.”  As a result they’ve been out-schemed on defense in the playoffs during McD’s entire tenure.  

[PBF81]

43 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

However, I would rather see a coaching change. I've seen enough of the playoff McD. Those losses aren't as much about losing but more about how they lost. Poor coaching, poor schemes, poor preparation, and poor game time adjustments were quite evident. So to say the Bills lost to better teams fails short in my eyes. It doesn't tell a complete and accurate picture. 

 

There comes a time when a team has to cut ties with good coaches. 

 

Change isn't always a bad thing. I'd argue the logical progression forward has not been there with the Bills playoff failures. I think it's a thinking error to excuse that lack of progression by saying they lost to better teams. It's realistic to say the Bills had the best team two years ago. It's reasonable to think they would have represented the AFC and win the SB.

 

We will never know because the opportunity was lost in disastrous fashion. An epic coaching failure if you will. Follow that up with last year's playoff performances. Go back further and analyse the coaching staff of the Bills playoff performances under McD. That just doesn't illicit confidence...

 

You actually said a mouthful here.  You hit the nail right on the head, and I think that the big disconnect between the two sides of this is the overlooked-by-many fact that in the playoffs McD is routinely outcoached, not even by noted top coaches or by teams with as much talent as we have.  

 

The other thing that is seemingly overlooked that you touched on, is the 2021 season playoff loss.  We actually had that game won, and the entire reason why we lost it is precisely because McD prevented us from finishing/closing.  In the meantime he hasn't done even a shred of anything to overcome any notion that he's capable of improving.  

 

The strongest argument that I can see by those arguing that he's not holding us back is that some day if he's here long enough the stars will essentially align, whether it be an easy schedule, back luck by our top opponents (like QB injuries), us peaking, or a combination of things, etc., then he too can win a Super Bowl.  

 

But at the present time, McD's been a liability come playoff time.  We haven't outplayed most of our playoff opponents, including the games we've won.  The only playoff game where both the O and D showed up was vs. the Patriots in that blowout and Allen was a man possessed in that game on our offensive side, while on the defensive side the best WRs that the rookie Mac Jones had that season were Jakobi Meyers and Kendrick Bourne who are like our depth WRs here.  Imagine the outcry here if those were our starters.  

 

 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

We talked about it a lot during the drought…the 1st coach to break the drought would be so revered that they would be getting a blank check on their time in buffalo.

 

It’s Buffalo, baby!

 

you knew it was coming.  It cAme.  Now we roll with it.

[Doc Brown]

38 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Agree with that.  The flip side is, with one game you’d better be ready to give it your best shot - and out-strategize the other team.  My feel is that McD deferred to Leslie wrt game planning on defense and Leslie’s view was basically, “I’m not changing what got us here.”  As a result they’ve been out-schemed on defense in the playoffs during McD’s entire tenure.  

I do too which is why Frazier "took a year off."  The game plan that worked great against the Chiefs in the regular season couldn't be replicated in the playoffs because two key big pieces that were in that game were missing (Miller and D. Jones).  Frazier should've realized this and adjusted accordingly.  McDermott maybe should've stepped in after the first half and started calling plays like he did against the Chargers in 2018.  However, maybe McDermott is thinking we went 13-3 with a great defense so I'll trust Frazier to figure it out like he did all season.  That didn't happen so when they did the autopsy Frazier got the boot.