Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[dave mcbride]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

lol come on.  

 

Ok, let's "run" with that.  That makes him faster than another "NEVER a deep threat", Jerry Rice, and as "slow" as Larry Fitzgerald--another guy who could NEVER go deep.

 

Compare them to such legendary 40 yard kings and, therefore, "deep threats" Rondel Menendez, John Ross, Marquis Goodwin, JJ Nelson and Tyquan Thornton.

 

Being a deep threat in the NFL isn't just a function of straight line speed...

 

Even so, D Hop has lost a step, per multiple guys who fill rosters and all passed on even discussing a trade for him.

My concern about Hopkins is that he might be a repeat of Julio Jones: flat-out dominant player who turned into a #3 receiver a couple of seasons ago after finally starting to get dinged up in Atlanta: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJu02.htm

AJ Green is another comp: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeA.00.htm. Remember when Bills fans were champing at the bit to get Green in 2020? Good thing they didn’t. He became a shadow of his pre-2019 self after his injury.

 

Eric Moulds is also a guy who turned into a possession receiver at the age of around 30 and after tearing his hamstring in OT vs Cincy early in the 2003 season. He was never the same afterward. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm
 

There are a lot of elite receivers who began getting leg injuries around age 30-31 and then settled into being non-threatening so-so possession receivers afterwards. Andre Reed is a case in point — tore his hamstring vs the Jets early in the 1995 season (when he was looking great) and was never really the same afterward. Andre Johnson was another. (A lot of these guys seem to find their way to the Titans and Ravens.) And Lee Evans. And Chad Ochocinco.

 

Point is, I suspect a lot of teams are wary of overpaying for past production. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

My concern about Hopkins is that he might be a repeat of Julio Jones: flat-out dominant player who turned into a #3 receiver a couple of seasons ago after finally starting to get dinged up in Atlanta: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJu02.htm

AJ Green is another comp: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeA.00.htm. Remember when Bills fans were champing at the bit to get Green in 2020? Good thing they didn’t. He became a shadow of his pre-2019 self after his injury.

 

Eric Moulds is also a guy who turned into a possession receiver at the age of around 30 and after tearing his hamstring in OT vs Cincy early in the 2003 season. He was never the same afterward. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm
 

There are a lot of elite receivers who began getting leg injuries around age 30-31 and then settled into being non-threatening so-so possession receivers afterwards. Andre Reed is a case in point — tore his hamstring vs the Jets early in the 1995 season (when he was looking great) and was never really the same afterward. Andre Johnson was another. (A lot of these guys seem to find their way to the Titans and Ravens.) And Lee Evans.

 

Point is, I suspect a lot of teams are wary of overpaying for past production. 

 

This was also brought up in the "dramatic" (lol) Breer piece i cited:

 

 "Remember, there’s a chance Hopkins is just where Julio Jones was two years ago, when Jones was traded from Atlanta to Tennessee. And if that’s the case, the team trading for Hopkins probably will have buyer’s remorse. There, of course, is also the chance that a change of scenery could bring the old Hopkins back."

 

I agree with the rest of your post.  Clearly, there was little interest in D Hop, for the reasons you mention and that are well laid out in Breer's article.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s funny…400 pages between the two threads and the same people are still arguing the same info on both sides.  Lol

 

Hopkins discussion has to hold the record for dead horse beatings at this point lol

 

This is a zombie thread, it just won’t die, (sadly) its just like the previous Hopkins thread, and like the previous thread it needs to be put to death by one of the mods, ( nudge nudge) there is nothing more that can be said that is useful or informative, this thread is an echo chamber of repetitive nonsense.  

[WMDman]

💯 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

This is a zombie thread, it just won’t die, (sadly) its just like the previous Hopkins thread, and like the previous thread it needs to be put to death by one of the mods, ( nudge nudge) there is nothing more that can be said that is useful or informative, this thread is an echo chamber of repetitive nonsense.  

still 2 1/2 months to preseason. 

 

offseason = those threads. if you don't want to tread through the muck, head to share some music, off the wall and dive in to some tunes. 🤘 😎

[78thealltimegreat]

This also might be a reason why they extended Eddie as they have cleared more cap space with restructuring of Trey and Dion still to come 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/04/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-deandre-hopkins/?taid=647c7a84db776900014a59ce&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter 

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

This also might be a reason why they extended Eddie as they have cleared more cap space with restructuring of Trey and Dion still to come 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/04/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-deandre-hopkins/?taid=647c7a84db776900014a59ce&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter 

I mean this is old news.  Nothing new in there at all, they knew he spoke directly yo Hopkins a while ago.  
 

I don’t think they extended Oliver for Hopkins.  They didn’t commit that much money to him just on the off chance Hopkins was to come here.  There were plenty of other options to do that didn’t cost as much as extending Oliver did to make the cap room.  
 

So IMHO, Oliver extension has zero to do with Hopkins

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Ok, let's "run" with that.  That makes him faster than another "NEVER a deep threat", Jerry Rice, and as "slow" as Larry Fitzgerald--another guy who could NEVER go deep.

Two more guys that were never considered "deep threats". Matter of fact, there were reports that teams took Rice out of the 1st round because of his 40 time. Rice and Fitzgerald were both considered great route runners with excellent hands. Although Rice had problems with the dropsies early in his career. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

16 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

This also might be a reason why they extended Eddie as they have cleared more cap space with restructuring of Trey and Dion still to come 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/04/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-deandre-hopkins/?taid=647c7a84db776900014a59ce&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter 

I think he's all about the money. you would have to think the direct conversation had to do with taking a deal that would have to work best for the bills and likely not the best for him. he will wait it out and take the highest bidder and obviously his discussion with beane didn't sway him.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[Simon]

1 hour ago, MikePJ76 said:

I d0 n0t.  C0uld be he was mad ab0ut s0mething else.

 

Dez Bryant used t0 get accused 0f this stuff and then nfl films w0uld sh0w the clip and he w0uld be talking ab0ut s0mething c0mpletely different.

 

it didn't change the percepti0n and I bet y0u th0ught bryant was a malc0ntent just like every0ne else did.

 

als0 my 0 is br0ke all 0f a sudden 0n my backb00k s0 yes th0se are zer0s.

 

Improvise, adapt and overcome 

 

People who were on the sidelines reported that Diggs was not yelling at Allen about getting him the ball more, he was yelling that he wanted Allen to ignore Dorsey and just call up whatever Josh wanted to run.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Two more guys that were never considered "deep threats". Matter of fact, there were reports that teams took Rice out of the 1st round because of his 40 time. Rice and Fitzgerald were both considered great route runners with excellent hands. Although Rice had problems with the dropsies early in his career. 

 

 

What more prove do you need that 40 times are useless in assessing WRs?  You've tanked your own argument.

 

 

Maybe you have redefined "deep threat" somewhere?  Rice was tearing up the league from day 1.  In his first 5 seasons he averaged 18.5 YPC!  Was that all YAC?  So he was too slow to burn the secondary deep.....but he was too fast for them to catch him after short passes?

 

Hopkins is 5th in deep TD receptions over the past 15 years, behind Desean Jackson, Calvin Johnson, Antonio Brown, AJ Green (4.62 40).  PFF has in their top 5 deep threats 2 guys who ran 4.45 and 4.5 in the combine---not burners buy any stretch for WR. 

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, Simon said:

(Diggs) was yelling that he wanted Allen to ignore Dorsey and just call up whatever Josh wanted to run.

ooooh. that's juicy. I didn't hear that report before.

[BuffaloBillyG]

18 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Not really.

 

The Bills used him less and less as the season went on.

 

The first 6 games of the season, Elam averaged 81% of the defensive snaps.

 

The last 6 games of the season, Elam averaged 35.1% of the defensive, and was a healthy inactive in one of those games.

 

While that may be what the numbers say (I haven't looked myself to verify if those percentages are even correct)...as usual numbers without context are meaningless.

 

Beginning of the season Elam saw increased snaps due to injury. There was no Tre White on the field who once back and at full speed was eating close to or at 100% of the snaps on one side.

 

And while he was a "healthy inactive" one time it's worth noting that he had just come off injury and while he did not have a designation the choice to sit him that week had a lot to do with opening snaps for Tre White and getting Rhodes on the field to get a look at him. 

 

In the playoffs he recorded the most snaps he had seen since week 6 at KC. Aside from a 3 week stretch (weeks 4, 5 and 6) that saw him play increased snaps due to CB injuries the 2 playoff games were his next highest snap total. After his inactive week he played zero snaps the following week and then saw his usage slowly ramp up heading to post season.

 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Beginning of the season Elam saw increased snaps due to injury. 

Oddly enough, Elam's play significantly reduced when Benford got injured and obviously Hamlin went down and Hyde was already out and Poyer was dinged up.

 

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

In the playoffs he recorded the most snaps he had seen since week 6 at KC. Aside from a 3 week stretch (weeks 4, 5 and 6) that saw him play increased snaps due to CB injuries the 2 playoff games were his next highest snap total. After his inactive week he played zero snaps the following week and then saw his usage slowly ramp up heading to post season.

 

 

To be honest I was pleasantly surprised with Elam's playoff performance. It was significantly better than many of his regular season games. So maybe less action was exactly what he needed.

 

.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Einstein

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Improvise, adapt and overcome 

 

People who were on the sidelines reported that Diggs was not yelling at Allen about getting him the ball more, he was yelling that he wanted Allen to ignore Dorsey and just call up whatever Josh wanted to run.

 

Exactly.  I heard it was reported that he said: "man, don't focus on me----you gotta give Isaiah, Cole and Gabe some more LOOKS BRO!"

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

Oddly enough, Elam's play significantly reduced when Benford got injured and obviously Hamlin went down and Hyde was already out and Poyer was dinged up.

 

 

To be honest I was pleasantly surprised with Elam's playoff performance. It was significantly better than many of his regular season games. So maybe less action was exactly what he needed.

 

.

Honestly I believe (and just my own theory here) that his foot/ankle injury still was bothering him even after the designation was taken off. That was right around the time White came back as well. I think he was working back from that for longer than noted and it had an affect on how often he was put out there. Again, no proof just a thought.

 

And I do think that injury and time with reduced snaps let him learn a bit. He seems like a very cerebral player so I will agree that maybe slowing him down a bit let him learn and study which is something he benefitted by. Kind of reminds me of Allen's rookie year and the way he looked before the injury that held him out a few weeks and the way he looked after. Game seemed to slow down for them both once they came back...which is encouraging.

[Buffalo Boy]

In on 100

REALLY proud of you guys and gals for getting us here!!!!

Excellent Work💪

[Virgil]

200 to go….

[KingBoots8]

11 minutes ago, Virgil said:

200 to go….

Gotta aim even higher than that

[Prospector]

Is he still available?

[Let's Go Buffalo]

3 minutes ago, Prospector said:

Is he still available?

I believe so.

[Solomon Grundy]

57 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Rice was tearing up the league from day 1.  In his first 5 seasons he averaged 18.5 YPC!  Was that all YAC?

I propose you go watch some Jerry Rice highlights. Most of his damage was in YAC

[Ga boy]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I propose you go watch some Jerry Rice highlights. Most of his damage was in YAC

Also, it took a man to take him down - a runaway freight train.  While his 40 wasn’t great, maybe his 20 was a blur. Just speculation.

[NI Bills Fan]

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-114551549.html

 

Apologies if already posted... Didn't see it in the last couple of pages.

 

Not much more info other than apparently Beane has had direct contact with Hopkins at some point. Not a huge surprise I'm guessing.

 

 

[BigBadBills]

7 minutes ago, NI Bills Fan said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-114551549.html

 

Apologies if already posted... Didn't see it in the last couple of pages.

 

Not much more info other than apparently Beane has had direct contact with Hopkins at some point. Not a huge surprise I'm guessing.

 

 

It’s literally on the last page 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

My concern about Hopkins is that he might be a repeat of Julio Jones: flat-out dominant player who turned into a #3 receiver a couple of seasons ago after finally starting to get dinged up in Atlanta: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneJu02.htm

AJ Green is another comp: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeA.00.htm. Remember when Bills fans were champing at the bit to get Green in 2020? Good thing they didn’t. He became a shadow of his pre-2019 self after his injury.

 

Eric Moulds is also a guy who turned into a possession receiver at the age of around 30 and after tearing his hamstring in OT vs Cincy early in the 2003 season. He was never the same afterward. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm
 

There are a lot of elite receivers who began getting leg injuries around age 30-31 and then settled into being non-threatening so-so possession receivers afterwards. Andre Reed is a case in point — tore his hamstring vs the Jets early in the 1995 season (when he was looking great) and was never really the same afterward. Andre Johnson was another. (A lot of these guys seem to find their way to the Titans and Ravens.) And Lee Evans. And Chad Ochocinco.

 

Point is, I suspect a lot of teams are wary of overpaying for past production. 

Nice post. 
 

I was never that big of a fan, but I’d bring him in for a year and then see what happens. That’s about it.

[Prospector]

57 minutes ago, Let's Go Buffalo said:

I believe so.

Hmmmm. Interesting 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, Ga boy said:

Also, it took a man to take him down - a runaway freight train.  While his 40 wasn’t great, maybe his 20 was a blur. Just speculation.

He ran GREAT routes and caught EVERYTHING 

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, NI Bills Fan said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-114551549.html

 

Apologies if already posted... Didn't see it in the last couple of pages.

 

Not much more info other than apparently Beane has had direct contact with Hopkins at some point. Not a huge surprise I'm guessing.

 

I don't see Beane signing him to a long term contract. I always saw it as a 1 year deal, 2 year tops. So if that's what he's looking for, I'd add it to the list of reasons it's unlikely we get this done.

[cale]

Best TikTok Ever. DHop.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRosbM5a/

[billsfan89]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

I don't see us having "rebuilt the cupboard of weapons" it's basically the same (caliber) weapons + the rookie TE.

I do agree that we have improved the OL but I may have a different opinion of that as well down the line since it's not 100% clear yet how the new group will perform and again putting too much expectation on a rookie is a bad idea

 

I generally agree with your assesstment. I do think that Harty and Sheffeld will represent a small upgrade over Kumerow and Mac but nothing major. Kincaid is a nice add and will help add a dimension to the offense. But Kincaid is still a rookie TE and rookie TE's historically don't have major impacts. Still like the add and still think that even if he gets 50+ receptions 600ish yards 4-5 TD's while not tanking Knox's production will be a significant positive to the overall offense. 

 

If the Bills are able to add Hopkins pairing the add of Kincaid/Hopkins with the massively improved interior o-line and O-line depth (although I would still like to the Bills add a true backup LT as there is no one behind Dawkins in my opinion) the offense overall should be massively improved. Even without Hopkins in the mix I still think the offensive line additions plus the moderate moves the made in adding Kincaid and Harty/Sheffeld should lead to a more consistent offense esp against better defenses or in shootout situations. 

 

Hopkins would be a nice "final piece" to add I think he would solidify the offense and its depth at WR, it would allow Shakir to come along at his own pace for one more season and take some pressure off of Gabe short term. 

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Ga boy said:

Also, it took a man to take him down - a runaway freight train.  While his 40 wasn’t great, maybe his 20 was a blur. Just speculation.

 

As Chris Berman famously said on ESPN Primetime...

 

"Jerry Rice isn't fast...just nobody can catch him from behind"

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I propose you go watch some Jerry Rice highlights. Most of his damage was in YAC

 

 

He was too slow to get separation after the catch...

 

But since you mention it, he had 1549 catches....which should I focus on?  Just the "highlights"?

[Ga boy]

53 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

As Chris Berman famously said on ESPN Primetime...

 

"Jerry Rice isn't fast...just nobody can catch him from behind"

Deion and Rice were a mutual fan club.

[MikePJ76]

21 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Improvise, adapt and overcome 

 

People who were on the sidelines reported that Diggs was not yelling at Allen about getting him the ball more, he was yelling that he wanted Allen to ignore Dorsey and just call up whatever Josh wanted to run.

That makes a lot of sense.  Again.  Time and Time it is exactly this that happens.  

 

Myself and everyone are guilty of rushing to an opinion and filling in the gaps.  

[SoCal Deek]

Ya gotta love it. While this thread was surpassing the 100 page milestone, Beane was at work in his office quietly signing Leonard Floyd. 

[Warriorspikes51]

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Ya gotta love it. While this thread was surpassing the 100 page milestone, Beane was at work in his office quietly signing Leonard Floyd. 

can he pull another rabbit out of his hat?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Much rather Hopkins than Floyd. No question. 

 

Something is going on there and probably the money.

 

The Bills and Chiefs were supposedly very high on him.  Neither one signed him and now he's going to "take some time" with OTA's as a soft deadline.

To me, money is the most important and he's holding out until a team gives it to him.

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Much rather Hopkins than Floyd. No question. 

 

29 sacks in the last 3 seasons. I hope they can get Hopkins as well, but the Floyd signing is a really good addition to the DL.

[Einstein]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Much rather Hopkins than Floyd. No question. 

 

Same.

12 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

29 sacks in the last 3 seasons. I hope they can get Hopkins as well, but the Floyd signing is a really good addition to the DL.

 

There is a reason why he only got a 1 year deal last season and was available in June of this off-season.

 

No problem having him on the team and i’m sure he can contribute, but let’s not pretend he is some prize.

 

This administration has a tendency of signing players after their prime when they have lost a lot of their juice that made them special. Guys like Emmanuel Sanders, Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, etc.