BillsFanForever19 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 hours ago, HappyDays said: Love how he spent the entire offseason talking about needing all these things, a stud QB paramount amongst them. And in his first visit, he goes to the team that has Ryan Tannehill or Will Levis throwing to him. That said, Tennessee definitely needs him. They spent a 1st on Treylon Burks last year who may develop into something, but didn't start the league on fire as a Rookie and.... like literally nothing else. Seriously, here's who they have: WR: 16 Treylon Burks 19 Jacob Copeland 14 Colton Dowell 82 Tre'Shaun Harrison 84 Gavin Holmes 10 Kearis Jackson 12 Mason Kinsey 13 Racey McMath 11 Chris Moore 18 Kyle Philips 80 Reggie Roberson 15 Nick Westbrook-Ikhine TE: 87 Alizé Mack 89 Thomas Odukoya 85 Chigoziem Okonkwo 86 Kevin Rader 83 Justin Rigg 88 Trevon Wesco 81 Josh Whyle WOOF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 hours ago, HappyDays said: Agent sabre rattling 6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said: And in his first visit, he goes to the team that has Ryan Tannehill or Will Levis throwing to him. NUFF SAID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 hours ago, HappyDays said: Yea, well Leslie Frazier has met with THREE teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: NUFF SAID If he's visiting that team in the state they're in now, they must be offering pretty good money. The hope is it isn't so much more than our offer that having Josh and the team we have makes up for the difference. But I'd imagine Tennessee knows they'd have to not only pay market value, but probably overpay to get him and the difference monetarily between the two offers will probably be too much for him to come back to ours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabstblueribbon Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Taxes Though. NY vs TN I can def see why the titans would be interested too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, Pabstblueribbon said: Taxes Though. NY vs TN I can def see why the titans would be interested too. He's made 114 million dollars in his career and only made it out of the wild card round of the playoffs twice in ten years. If taxes really play into a decision between playing with either Josh Allen or Ryan Tannehill, Id say his mind is in the wrong place. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 The continuing fascination with Hopkins is becoming laughable for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that he showing himself to be the opposite of the type of player who might put the Bills over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 12 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: He's made 114 million dollars in his career and only made it out of the wild card round of the playoffs twice in ten years. If taxes really play into a decision between playing with either Josh Allen or Ryan Tannehill, Id say his mind is in the wrong place. Yup. I got a back channel tidbit that I’m sure just about everyone has already figured out themselves, but I’ll put it here for validation purposes. To date Hopkins is not happy with the contract offers he has received. However several teams are interested if he accepts the reality of his market. Two of those teams are the Ravens and Browns as Lamar and Watson have both my made it known that they’d like Hopkins added. I would think the Bills, KC, Dallas and the Giants are others, but that’s speculation. No word on the spread of current offers either. Just that all are significantly below what he was expecting. The trip to Nashville makes sense in this context. If he gets a better offer there, then his agent can shop it to his preferred destinations just like OBJ did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 12 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Huh? He doesn’t care about winningZ. Only $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) Him coming here would have a ripple effect in the locker room and the player focus on winning. I believe it would really benefit Diggs, especially late in the season/playoffs Edited June 8, 2023 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: Him coming here would have a ripple effect in the locker room and the player focus on winning. I believe it would really benefit Diggs, especially late in the season/playoffs For me, yes it’s about improving WR2, but it’s also about having our season not necessarily be sunk by Diggs missing any extended time. You think there’s a lot of Gabe Davis discussions now? Let’s hope what I said above never happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 17 minutes ago, NewEra said: He doesn’t care about winningZ. Only $ Everyone cares about the bottom line at the end of the day. If the offer from TN or others is considerably larger than what he can get from a real contender, he may well choose to take it and I don’t blame him. If it’s a trivial difference and he chooses to take the same offer from TN vs Buffalo bc of taxes, then yeah, he’s not really in it to win (even though 11% of a contract in taxes is no joke). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 Hopkins is a fine football player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Everyone cares about the bottom line at the end of the day. If the offer from TN or others is considerably larger than what he can get from a real contender, he may well choose to take it and I don’t blame him. If it’s a trivial difference and he chooses to take the same offer from TN vs Buffalo bc of taxes, then yeah, he’s not really in it to win (even though 11% of a contract in taxes is no joke). I just jumped in and dont know if someone said this, but it's not 11% of the contract. I assume 11% is the NYS highest tax rate. He'd pay NYS tax only on the games he plays in NYS, so that's half his games. So, coming to Buff over Tenn would cost him 5.5%, not 11%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 29 minutes ago, Irv said: Hopkins is a fine football player. RIP Commander Tom Jolls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I just jumped in and dont know if someone said this, but it's not 11% of the contract. I assume 11% is the NYS highest tax rate. He'd pay NYS tax only on the games he plays in NYS, so that's half his games. So, coming to Buff over Tenn would cost him 5.5%, not 11%. That still adds up to a hefty chunk of change when you're talking about a contract the size of what some of these players make. Last year Tyreek Hill (of all people) gave a good example. When he was traded to Miami the Jets were right there as well for him. KC presented him with the choice and he took Miami in big part because NJ state taxes would have cost him $3.2M more for his share of games played there. And that's not even counting any lodging, large purchases (vehicles) that they may make being taxed at a higher rate. As fans it's really easy to say "well this dude made $100M in the past if he's squabbling about $3M he only cares about money". But it's still a substantial amount when your window to make as much as possible is limited. I think most guys would say the dream is to be handsomely paid by a team that has a shot to win a championship. Best of both worlds. However if given the option between money and glory I think a lot of guys take the money...just like most of us would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irv Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: RIP Commander Tom Jolls Just saw that. Clip, Irv, Rick, and now Commander Tom. RIP Commander! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Yea. Very strange assumption that because he’s going to visit the Titans and try and maximize his pay that he doesn’t care about winning. Meh.. I wanted Hopkins, but taking a visit to the Titans (either due to entertaining their offer OR using their offer to drive up his price elsewhere) tells me he's not exactly serious about winning and/or teams around the league view him as a potential "fall off the cliff" type of player. We'll see what he gets, and where he signs, but if I'm Beane and I can do Floyd for minimal cap gymnastics or Hopkins at say 15M per for multiple years... I'm taking Floyd (In the hypothetical contract comparison I just made up in my head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 29 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Yea. Very strange assumption that because he’s going to visit the Titans and try and maximize his pay that he doesn’t care about winning. We’ ll see where he ends up. I bet it’s not KC, Buffalo or Cinci, Philly or SF. Which means he doesn’t really care about winning imo. I could see Baltimore, not because he thinks he can win there….but because Decosta is the best in the business and usually finds a way to get the guys he wants and will find a way to pay him his minimum price tag. He talked all the stuff that he wants- an elite QB. A stable organization . A great defense. I think the only place he can get that and get paid is Baltimore (if you consider a Lamar elite). I think Baltimore and cleveland are the favorites due to the fact that they are on the outside of the elite teams, trying to become elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 hours ago, NewEra said: He doesn’t care about winningZ. Only $ That's all NFL athletes care about. Including everyone on our roster too 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I just jumped in and dont know if someone said this, but it's not 11% of the contract. I assume 11% is the NYS highest tax rate. He'd pay NYS tax only on the games he plays in NYS, so that's half his games. So, coming to Buff over Tenn would cost him 5.5%, not 11%. Actually, neither scenario is correct, the bonus money is deemed NYS, so in the very likely scenario that he takes a big signing bonus with a bunch of voided years, he’s getting slapped with the 11% on that and the 1.1M vet contract would be at the rates across where he’s playing. In opposition to signing w a team in a no income tax state, the bonus won’t be taxed and you will only pay where you play. Ideal scenario is honestly outside of the AFCE because barring Florida, you are getting slammed w high tax rates for divisional games. Taxes matter, like it or not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: That's all NFL athletes care about. Including everyone on our roster too Yeah nobody on the Bills roster is leaving the relatively massive amounts of what they can earn on the table to play in Buffalo for incredibly less. The OBJ deal proved that there can be a big variance in offers for veteran WR talent. As he said he was being offered only $4M at some of his preferred destinations.........and the Ravens came in with $15M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Yeah nobody on the Bills roster is leaving the relatively massive amounts of what they can earn on the table to play in Buffalo for incredibly less. The OBJ deal proved that there can be a big variance in offers for veteran WR talent. As he said he was being offered only $4M at some of his preferred destinations.........and the Ravens came in with $15M. It's not like our very own star wideout left an ascending Vikings squad to join a lesser team in hopes of a bigger payday oh wait 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: It's not like our very own star wideout left an ascending Vikings squad to join a lesser team in hopes of a bigger payday oh wait Then he got the extension and his attitude and behavior got so much better! Championship! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWeatherMan Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: It's not like our very own star wideout left an ascending Vikings squad to join a lesser team in hopes of a bigger payday oh wait #1 He was traded, he didn’t leave. I’m pretty sure Diggs didn’t have a no trade clause in his contract. #2 There is not a single receiver in this league that would rather catch passes from Kirk Cousins than Josh Allen. The Bills were an ascending team as well with a budding star at QB (unlike MN). I’d say Diggs made the correct decision even if it wasn’t his decision. Edited June 8, 2023 by TheWeatherMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said: #1 He was traded, he didn’t leave. I’m pretty sure Diggs didn’t have a no trade clause in his contract. #2 There is not a single receiver in this league that would rather catch passes from Kirk Cousins than Josh Allen. The Bills were an ascending team as well with a budding star at QB (unlike MN). I’d say Diggs made the correct decision even if it wasn’t his decision. Yes and Hopkins was cut, he didn't leave either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennstate10 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 34 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Actually, neither scenario is correct, the bonus money is deemed NYS, so in the very likely scenario that he takes a big signing bonus with a bunch of voided years, he’s getting slapped with the 11% on that and the 1.1M vet contract would be at the rates across where he’s playing. In opposition to signing w a team in a no income tax state, the bonus won’t be taxed and you will only pay where you play. Ideal scenario is honestly outside of the AFCE because barring Florida, you are getting slammed w high tax rates for divisional games. Taxes matter, like it or not. This is a really interesting point. When the Bills convert $20M or Josh Allen salary to a bonus, is he really losing money? Because 100% of his bonus is subject to the high 11%, but only 50% of his salary is subject to the 11%. The other 50% gets taxed at rates of the state where game is played, generally less than 11%. CA at 13% the only exception. Have any plates refused a conversion of salary to bonus for this reason ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Except the jury was still very much out on Josh prior to the Diggs trade. He was not even close to the star he is now. Yeah Josh Allen was the 24th rated passer in the NFL in 2019. Kirk Cousins was 4th. Diggs had excelled with Cousins and was their leading WR in target share and yards in 2019 and had almost 18 yards per reception. It was the equivalent of Tee Higgins leaving Joe Burrow to play with Justin Fields by 2023 standards. The idea that Buffalo was suddenly a destination for WR's is totally false. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, pennstate10 said: This is a really interesting point. When the Bills convert $20M or Josh Allen salary to a bonus, is he really losing money? Because 100% of his bonus is subject to the high 11%, but only 50% of his salary is subject to the 11%. The other 50% gets taxed at rates of the state where game is played, generally less than 11%. CA at 13% the only exception. Have any plates refused a conversion of salary to bonus for this reason ? I believe most contracts have language written into them that allows the team to rework it as needed, so long as the money stays the same. It would actually suck for the player a bit, but I do think this is why you saw Allen take a “small” signing bonus and larger first year base pay. I sure as hell would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 17 hours ago, FLFan said: The continuing fascination with Hopkins is becoming laughable for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that he showing himself to be the opposite of the type of player who might put the Bills over the top. If it helps to understand our position - the fascination is not with Hopkins specifically, it is with upgrading Gabe Davis as the WR2. Hopkins just happens to be the one available player that would do that. If for example we had Tee Higgins or Devonta Smith on the team this would be a dead topic. Many of us simply aren't comfortable relying on Davis to once again be the #2 target share in this passing offense which is what he currently projects to be. What about Hopkins' recent actions shows him to be the opposite of what we need? Von Miller required a $100 million contract to sign here. So I assume you think he is also not the kind of player we should have signed? 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 4 hours ago, GoBills808 said: That's all NFL athletes care about. Including everyone on our roster too No it’s not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: No it’s not. Ok I could have phrased that better Among the many things NFL players care about, earning the most money is always going to be at the top. Like always...and it should be that way. It how the pro football ecosystem operates. Next is probably their teammates and then coaches. Winning games isn't even in the top 5 if you ask me. You can find exceptions and outliers but it's true. And I think it's sour grapes to say 'well this guy only wants money and he doesn't care about winning' to disparage FAs who may not sign here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0017 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 hours ago, pennstate10 said: This is a really interesting point. When the Bills convert $20M or Josh Allen salary to a bonus, is he really losing money? Because 100% of his bonus is subject to the high 11%, but only 50% of his salary is subject to the 11%. The other 50% gets taxed at rates of the state where game is played, generally less than 11%. CA at 13% the only exception. Have any plates refused a conversion of salary to bonus for this reason ? It becomes guaranteed at that point, I think it’s a bird in the hand situation, even though at QB it’s a bit different because it’s highly unlikely an injury would cause his release. It is an interesting point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Except the jury was still very much out on Josh prior to the Diggs trade. He was not even close to the star he is now. Shady McCoy didn't think so!! From day one, he was endorsing Josh as a bonafide star in the making 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Ok I could have phrased that better Among the many things NFL players care about, earning the most money is always going to be at the top. Like always...and it should be that way. It how the pro football ecosystem operates. Next is probably their teammates and then coaches. Winning games isn't even in the top 5 if you ask me. You can find exceptions and outliers but it's true. And I think it's sour grapes to say 'well this guy only wants money and he doesn't care about winning' to disparage FAs who may not sign here. I think HoFers that will have made in excess of 100M over their careers have a different perspective. Hopkins, imo, is a HoFer, will have made over 100M after this season and has 2 playoff wins. If I’m DHop, putting myself in position to win a SB >>>>>> an extra 5M-7M. Many players have done that in their careers. I’d venture to say hundreds of them have taken less to win or, as you said, play with coaches and team mates they want to play with. I don’t think he’s thinking that though. I’m confidant Beane would anti up 8-10M on a a 1 year contract with 3 void years to land him. But that’s not gonna be enough $. Even though he said he wants to play with Josh allen, with a stable franchise and FO and a great defense. He has it all. But he wants more money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-deandre-hopkins-free-agency-sign-contract-rumors Josh Allen on Hopkins Multiple Bills players have been vocal about their desire to see Hopkins come to Buffalo, and star quarterback Josh Allen is the latest to join the list. After fulfilling a childhood dream by becoming the Madden 24 cover athlete, Allen made a recruiting pitch for the star receiver. "My pitch would be, it would increase our Madden offensive rating, probably quite a bit," Allen said in an interview with USA Today Sports. "I don't know what it is right now, what it's gonna be, but I think we'd jump up a couple points just by adding his name to our roster. "He's a heck of a talent and a heck of a player. We'd love to have him." 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 9 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Except the jury was still very much out on Josh prior to the Diggs trade. He was not even close to the star he is now. Allen made the playoffs without Diggs people forget that. Diggs was good in Minny but he wasn’t at this level. Allen made Diggs as much as Diggs made Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Allen made the playoffs without Diggs people forget that. Diggs was good in Minny but he wasn’t at this level. Allen made Diggs as much as Diggs made Allen. The Bills made the playoffs in 2019 but largely because of an incredibly easy schedule of tomato can QB's they got to face. It was incredibly fortuitous how many backup QB's they got to face and they were only a win better than the McDermott 2017 team that was the worst point differential team to make the playoffs in the AFC since the 1980's. Remember Duck Hodges? Allen was a curiosity to NFL observers because of his athleticism, arm strength and balls-out style of play..........but the idea that he was on a path to being a top passer was seen as absurd. The NFL had never seen a two year starter going from being a 50-something% passer to completing nearly 70% of his passes and becoming the runner up for MVP. Critics were absolutely losing their minds about how Allen had gone from scattergun to GREAT over night in 2020. I pointed it out earlier, to the protestation of a few, but he WAS what Justin Fields is now and his 2020 would be the equivalent of Fields emerging as a top 3 QB and runner-up to the MVP in 2023. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 45 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said: https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-deandre-hopkins-free-agency-sign-contract-rumors Josh Allen on Hopkins Multiple Bills players have been vocal about their desire to see Hopkins come to Buffalo, and star quarterback Josh Allen is the latest to join the list. After fulfilling a childhood dream by becoming the Madden 24 cover athlete, Allen made a recruiting pitch for the star receiver. "My pitch would be, it would increase our Madden offensive rating, probably quite a bit," Allen said in an interview with USA Today Sports. "I don't know what it is right now, what it's gonna be, but I think we'd jump up a couple points just by adding his name to our roster. "He's a heck of a talent and a heck of a player. We'd love to have him." That part of the interview came off as it'd be nice but he wasn't holding his breath what with the business side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: That part of the interview came off as it'd be nice but he wasn't holding his breath what with the business side of things. Yeah but his boy Gabriel Davis is in his walk year so I wouldn't expect Allen to be making a plea thru the media for Hopkins to join the team. Gotta' keep it measured. If Hopkins comes to the Bills......especially knowing their slot WR plans for Kincaid..........the potential for lost targets could be enormous. If they are cut in half as option 3A or 3B it could knock 8 figures off of his next contract. So Gabe might be miffed about his QB Allen going out of his way to push the Hopkins agenda. And what would that say about JA17's confidence in Gabe if he is saying the Bills need/badly want Hopkins? I really don't see where Allen would be wise to say anymore than he did regardless of the interest or likelihood of Hopkins joining the Bills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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