Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I don’t disagree at all. Read my post above… The Chiefs have Andy Reid and a hall of fame TE…. I think an addition like Hopkins makes Dorsey and Allen’s job a hell of a lot easier and the Bills a much more legitimate threat in the playoffs than a player like Floyd does. 
 

 

I would say that production wise, Diggs cancels out Kelce. So the difference is Andy vs Dorsey.

 

First off let me just say I think the "offensive guru" talk about Reid is VASTLY overblown. Now that's not to say he isn't good at his job...but he's not some all knowing all seeing Guru.  No one was saying he was an offensive savant when his QBs were McNabb and Alex Smith. 

 

That leaves the Ken Dorsey issue. Either he can run an offense or he can't. If he can run an offense he has enough pieces to scheme up some truly fantastic sets. If he can't run an offense getting him Hopkins won't make a difference because he won't know how to use him anyway. It would be like giving my 9 year old a Corvette. Sure it looks pretty in the garage but he can't drive it so it's basically a useless expenditure of money. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

No one was saying he was an offensive savant when his QBs were McNabb and Alex Smith. 

 

I mean, yes they were?

[billsfan89]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t disagree at all. Read my post above… The Chiefs have Andy Reid and a hall of fame TE…. I think an addition like Hopkins makes Dorsey and Allen’s job a hell of a lot easier and the Bills a much more legitimate threat in the playoffs than a player like Floyd does. 
 

 

 

My worry with Hopkins is as good as he is he hasn't finished the last two seasons. Don't get me wrong I think he still has something but what I think is the true gain from Hopkins is allowing Davis, Kincaid and Shakir to grow a bit more at their own pace to start the season. Even if Hopkins gets hurt 8-10 games into the season and misses a lot of time Hopkins still allows those younger players to step into their role more gradually to start the season. If Hopkins can stay healthy then it is only a bonus. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Offense is king… I’m not one of those that thinks defense doesn’t matter, because it obviously does, but I think this teams best bet on winning a SB is by stacking playmakers on offense for Allen and letting the defensive head coach coach up his defense with some good pieces in place… 

 

Yea I like Kincaid… but as I said, I’m skeptical a rookie TE(when their starting TE a year ago was no where to be found in some games) will be the difference… Davis is an inconsistent low end #2 and they’ve signed a couple of guys who’ve amounted to not much in the league in FA… 
 

Success of the offense is much more paramount to this teams overall success.

Offense is king yes. Defensive line is the best way to attack offense.

 

QB and pass rushers are the premium positions in the league followed by WR1.

 

Im all for loading up at WR but no one should be upset about loading up at DL.

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes had two players that were among the best at their position on his offense (Kelce and Humphrey), and a top 2 play caller. Allen had one player like that and a rookie play caller. Is it so much to ask for the help given to Allen to be at least equivalent to the help given to Mahomes?

He has the help. Yes, he has 2 top players to Josh's 1. Valid point. However after that...

 

Our RB room is deeper and better overall

 

WR room..same and by a country mile.

 

OL- they had a solid OL. Ours seems to be much sturdier this year. We will see on that.

 

Now, obviously Reid has a vast bit of knowledge and experience over Dorsey. Which is why I was against that hire in the first place. They handed the keys to a Corvette to someone that had a learners permit. That's the issue. Not getting more WR help. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

He has the help. Yes, he has 2 top players to Josh's 1. Valid point. However after that...

 

Our RB room is deeper and better overall

 

WR room..same and by a country mile.

 

OL- they had a solid OL. Ours seems to be much sturdier this year. We will see on that.

 

Now, obviously Reid has a vast bit of knowledge and experience over Dorsey. Which is why I was against that hire in the first place. They handed the keys to a Corvette to someone that had a learners permit. That's the issue. Not getting more WR help. 

 

 

We wanted Dorsey. 
 

How was the offense a corvette when everyone complains about WRs and OL last year?

[BananaB]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

He has the help. Yes, he has 2 top players to Josh's 1. Valid point. However after that...

 

Our RB room is deeper and better overall

 

WR room..same and by a country mile.

 

OL- they had a solid OL. Ours seems to be much sturdier this year. We will see on that.

 

Now, obviously Reid has a vast bit of knowledge and experience over Dorsey. Which is why I was against that hire in the first place. They handed the keys to a Corvette to someone that had a learners permit. That's the issue. Not getting more WR help. 

 

 

On paper…. No one has proved anything to say we’re better. Just more heads at this point

Edited June 5, 2023 by BananaB

[BillsFanForever19]

After signing Leonard Floyd, I see this as even more unlikely than I did before signing him.

 

While I'm sure the deal is heavily incentive laden, Jeremy Fowler reported that Floyd "had a lot of interest" and another team that missed out on him was "heavily involved". So while I think the deal will be cheaper than most top end DE contracts - I imagine it will cost all or close to whatever space was saved signing Oliver to an extension.

 

Ultimately, the only way I see this happening is if Hopkins has absolutely no market and takes whatever we're offering to play with Josh this season to try and improve his market next season. I'd be shocked if it comes to that for him. Some team will pay him.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Our RB room is deeper and better overall

 

That's your opinion, not mine. I put our RB rooms on the same level.

 

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

WR room..same and by a country mile.

 

Our WR group is deeper, no debate there.

 

12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

OL- they had a solid OL. Ours seems to be much sturdier this year. We will see on that.

 

"Solid?" It was the 2nd or 3rd best OL in the entire league.

 

And the difference between Reid and Dorsey was indeed VAST, even in the most optimistic view of Dorsey's job last year. This is arguably more important than any roster differences between the two offenses.

 

Anyways you're the one that tried to paint Allen in a bad light because "he needs help." I'm just pointing out that even the perceived best QB in the NFL needed a lot of help to win his Super Bowls too. An all time great TE, an all time great play caller, a top 3 OL. Why does Mahomes need so much help?

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by HappyDays

[DJB]

Beane has done a great job improving the OL and the DL this offseason.

 

But to take a giant leap we need to add to the WE group with an impact player like Nuke

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's your opinion, not mine. I put our RB rooms on the same level.

 

 

Our WR group is deeper, no debate there.

 

 

"Solid?" It was the 2nd or 3rd best OL in the entire league.

 

And the difference between Reid and Dorsey was indeed VAST, even in the most optimistic view of Dorsey's job last year. This is arguably more important than any roster differences between the two offenses.

 

Anyways you're the one that tried to paint Allen in a bad light because "he needs help." I'm just pointing out that even the perceived best QB in the NFL needed a lot of help to win his Super Bowls too. An all time great TE, an all time great play caller, a top 3 OL. Why does Mahomes need so much help?

 

You know, when you pick and choose what lines to quote and respond to one by one it leads to taking things completely out of context...which you have done. 

 

No one is "painting Allen in a bad light". But I do think it's fair to ask the question of if he as as great as WE like to believe he is...he needs to be able to elevate and utilize the playmakers around him. Which HE even acknowledged himself this very off season.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You know, when you pick and choose what lines to quote and respond to one by one it leads to taking things completely out of context...which you have done. 

 

No one is "painting Allen in a bad light". But I do think it's fair to ask the question of if he as as great as WE like to believe he is...he needs to be able to elevate and utilize the playmakers around him. Which HE even acknowledged himself this very off season.

You realize every single wideout that plays w Allen has a career year lol

[BillsSbSoon]

39 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

No one was saying he was an offensive savant when his QBs were McNabb and Alex Smith. 

What? Yes they were. 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

But I do think it's fair to ask the question of if he as as great as WE like to believe he is...he needs to be able to elevate and utilize the playmakers around him.

 

How does this differ from Mahomes?

[ndirish1978]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

That overly dramatic Tweet by Wawrow reminds me of his infamous antics on here announcing his departure.

I'll be rooting for Hopkins more than ever. Would love to see Beane put Johnny 🤡 in his place  

 

Yeah I've been going through the same thing at the Lamboghini dealership. I offered them 10k for the new Revuelto. They said they really like me and were interested but that the price was $400k, sounds like we're just waiting on them to come down on their offer enough to where we can meet in the middle somewhere around 12k. Wawrow is gonna freak.   

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

How does this differ from Mahomes?

What is this hard on you have about redirecting every question about Josh to Mahomes? It's a weird obsession.  

 

1 hour ago, BillsSbSoon said:

What? Yes they were. 

No. They weren't. 

 

As I said in the part you conveniently edited out...no one said he wasn't a good to great offensive mind. They were and he was even then.  But there was NO ONE comparing him to the almost Bill Belichick level genius that they have since he had Mahomes. 

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, wppete said:

Davis and Kincaid are better than Hopkins

Says who?? 

[wppete]

4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Says who?? 

 Says me. Facts. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. Disagree. 

I think the glaring and more difference making hole on this team is at WR2… It seems McBeane disagree… they have been wrong before you know…. But maybe I’m wrong and they still have room to bring in Hopkins. 

I am not saying that they are right or wrong, but there is a possibility that the bills think that they have the number to position worked out in Gabe davis

 

A lot of people don’t really like to talk about this and once again, I’m not saying whether anybody is right or wrong on it, but there is a possibility that Gabe Davis just isn’t a linear production wide receiver, and could have a huge bounce back year

 

There were many last year they were excited about the concept of having a homegrown second wide receiver option that we drafted being on a cost control contract. That is now an idea that year but the bills may still really like Gabe Davis

[BillsSbSoon]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

No. They weren't. 

 

As I said in the part you conveniently edited out...no one said he wasn't a good to great offensive mind. They were and he was even then.  But there was NO ONE comparing him to the almost Bill Belichick level genius that they have since he had Mahomes. 

I don’t agree with that. At all. Andy Reid was always known as a top tier playcaller. When he had mcnabb, Alex smith, etc. and he also got Mike Vick back to a pro bowl level after being in jail. Reid’s problem used to always be clock management particularly at the end of big games. Mahomes has helped him shed that. Reid has always been a genius playcaller

Edited June 6, 2023 by BillsSbSoon

[Warcodered]

 

[russ t. nail]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

No. They weren't. 

A bunch of people have already said this, but I’m hoping more people doing it helps you see you’re wrong about this. Aside from you apparently, everyone else was saying that Reid was an offensive guru. The knock was Reid couldn’t win the big game, and there were some game management questions. But those offenses with McNabb and Westbrook were so fun. And when he did what he did with Alex smith it only made his offensive genius tag more pronounced. I don’t know what you were watching or reading at the time but he was definitely considered an offensive genius. And rightfully so.

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

That overly dramatic Tweet by Wawrow reminds me of his infamous antics on here announcing his departure.

I'll be rooting for Hopkins more than ever. Would love to see Beane put Johnny 🤡 in his place  

You have this unreal level of denial of anything that suggests he might not sign here.

 

I would love to see Hopkins here, but it’s just not gonna happen unless he plays for peanuts compared to what he was making and reportedly wants.  Especially after signing Floyd and extending Ed.  

[DCofNC]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You have this unreal level of denial of anything that suggests he might not sign here.

 

I would love to see Hopkins here, but it’s just not gonna happen unless he plays for peanuts compared to what he was making and reportedly wants.  Especially after signing Floyd and extending Ed.  

So excited to keep and sign more rotational DL, can’t have enough money wasted there.  WRs are a dime a dozen as we all know, Bean just wizarding again.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There are a ton of ways to win in the NFL. Last year the Chiefs won a SB with their WR2 being who, exactly?

 

 

I think you are referring to Juju Smith Shuster as the #2 target behind Kelce?    Juju had 97 catches in 2020 and was only 26 years old in 2022 with a 1400 yard season also on his resume.    That is a lot different than having a never-was journeyman like Lil' Dummy and the perennially injured and washed up flyer veteran signing Jamison Crowder in the slot.   The Chiefs also had two talented young WR selected in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the previous 2 drafts in addition to their Gabe Davis production clone  Marquez Valdes Scantling.   It wasn't the best WR corps in the NFL but their receiving group, counting Kelce of course, was A LOT deeper and talented than that of the Bills. 

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think it’s clear they still really like Gabe Davis. I also think they are wrong, have developed a blind spot for the position, and Gabe Davis is not a sufficient #2 WR.

 

I agree with #1 for sure, #2 maybe a little, and #3 for sure based on 2022 on-field issues/inconsistencies.  

 

The difficulty in this debate, to paraphrase one of my favorite late-20th century US authors, is the subjectivity in: What We Talk About When We Talk About #2 WRs. Is it about an up-and-comer with all-around flashes of #1 potential? Is it about a positional (boundary) prototype of traits and skills? Or is it simply about a reliable receiving target (x, y, z, TE...whatever) who sees the 2nd most targets and produces?

 

What we're really talking about with the Bills, of course, is if Gabe Davis is an acceptable starting #2 BOUNDARY receiver. Can he effectively hurt a defense that rolls coverage to the other side, i.e., win 1-on-1s and catch the damned ball. The problem is: we've seen him succeed in spectacular ways, and we've seen him struggle in ugly ways. 

 

None of us really KNOWS how Davis will produce in 2023. 

 

But maybe someone else steps up and into the functional, statistical #2 receiving role from a different alignment/position. Was my original point. 

[DrDawkinstein]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

“And we’d rather give that money to a pass rusher” 

 

Sounds more like the pass rusher was the one willing to take our money.

[Nextmanup]

On 5/26/2023 at 1:07 PM, Dick_Cheney said:

Beane will absolutely find a way to make this happen.

Or maybe not.

 

 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is this hard on you have about redirecting every question about Josh to Mahomes? It's a weird obsession.  

 

 

It isn't about Mahomes specifically. Your question is absurd on the face of it. It has no value in the discussion. "Why does Josh need help?" Because every QB, ever, needs help. Super Bowls aren't won by one man shows. Allen clearly has elevated the players around him. When are his teammates going to elevate him?

 

Mahomes had a high ankle sprain and had to leave a playoff game for an entire quarter plus. He spent the rest of the playoffs hobbled and had an inexplicable no-contact fumble in a critical moment in the AFCCG. His teammates found a way to elevate him. I'm not trying to take away from his greatness, not at all, but the decision makers in KC have made it a point to build as much as possible around him first and foremost. 

 

Brady is the GOAT but had a ton of help every year that he was in New England. In 2019 the offensive talent around him fell off a cliff, his stats declined susbtantially, and they lost in the wildcard round. Everyone declared his career over. He went to the most talented roster in football in 2020, and hey what a coincidence just about every stat he had that year was better than his career average.

 

There's this widespread belief that great QBs make their receivers. The truth of course is that it goes both ways. The question isn't "why does Allen need help?" The question is why shouldn't he have as much help as he can get? What is the downside to trying to create an offense that rivals the greatest offenses in history? I can understand the argument that Hopkins is a poor fit for the Bills, past his prime, etc. but I really don't understand the argument that we should stop trying to add offensive talent just because Allen is the QB.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Wheeeeeeee

[John from Riverside]

8 hours ago, DCofNC said:

So excited to keep and sign more rotational DL, can’t have enough money wasted there.  WRs are a dime a dozen as we all know, Bean just wizarding again.

As usual, you just don’t get it

7 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Or maybe not.

 

 

I’m trying to figure out how he makes it happen
 

Even though we freed up money on the Oliver extension, it looks like it wasn’t near enough to entice DeAndre Hopkins

 

There are other teams in the league they can offer so much more

[Irv]

Did Hopkins get released?

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

It isn't about Mahomes specifically. Your question is absurd on the face of it. It has no value in the discussion. "Why does Josh need help?" Because every QB, ever, needs help. Super Bowls aren't won by one man shows. Allen clearly has elevated the players around him. When are his teammates going to elevate him?

 

Mahomes had a high ankle sprain and had to leave a playoff game for an entire quarter plus. He spent the rest of the playoffs hobbled and had an inexplicable no-contact fumble in a critical moment in the AFCCG. His teammates found a way to elevate him. I'm not trying to take away from his greatness, not at all, but the decision makers in KC have made it a point to build as much as possible around him first and foremost. 

 

Brady is the GOAT but had a ton of help every year that he was in New England. In 2019 the offensive talent around him fell off a cliff, his stats declined susbtantially, and they lost in the wildcard round. Everyone declared his career over. He went to the most talented roster in football in 2020, and hey what a coincidence just about every stat he had that year was better than his career average.

 

There's this widespread belief that great QBs make their receivers. The truth of course is that it goes both ways. The question isn't "why does Allen need help?" The question is why shouldn't he have as much help as he can get? What is the downside to trying to create an offense that rivals the greatest offenses in history? I can understand the argument that Hopkins is a poor fit for the Bills, past his prime, etc. but I really don't understand the argument that we should stop trying to add offensive talent just because Allen is the QB.

I see a lot of valid points here.  And I agree, the question isn't so much "Why does Allen need help". Let me reword that to "Why does the offense need more help?"

 

I think it would be safe to assume we would be able to agree that the IOL was a MAJOR reason that Josh had to go above and beyond last year. The quick pressure in his face led to plays breaking down quick on multiple occasions each game. I think it would also be safe to assume we could agree that the offense got way less than it hoped from the slot position. Those areas have (at least on paper, so far) been addressed. 

 

The issue that remains for me is the one I've stated both here and in other threads. You can improve the line, the weapons...but if you have a coaching issue you're throwing good money out the window. While the offense put up good stats last year the offensive philosophy wasn't much more than "Josh, do something good". I do think Dorsey has the possibility of improvement however I would like to see how he uses all the new toys Beane gave him before investing more cap in players that won't have an impact if not used well.

 

Even dating back to last season with Hines. We got him at the trade deadline and Dorsey couldn't figure out a way to use him...despite Beane talking up how he can play multiple spots and be a difference maker. They kept saying he was "still learning the playbook". They said the same thing this off-season about him. But Dorsey couldn't scheme up anything? Doesn't give me confidence that he can utilize a guy like DHop.

 

 

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The only significant “new toy” he brought in is Kincaid… Harty and Sherfield have proven very little in the league so I find it odd fans keep talking these guys up…. But they did the same thing last year with players like Crowder and OJ Howard.
 

And I disagree the Chiefs had less weapons than the Bills. I would’ve taken what they had last season all day over what the Bills trotted out there. 

The Chiefs comparison is exhausting.  
 

I would, every. single. day., take what the Chiefs had around Mahomes last year over what we put around Allen.  
 

Elite OL vs our bottom tier disaster class OL. 
 

THE best offensive weapon in the NFL in Travis Kelce.  
 

Did we have an edge at WR? Sure.. but after Diggs, we had bad ankle Gabe and a whole lot of nothing.  
 

The skill position talent was pretty close.. Now let’s see what Josh could’ve done with a good elbow and Mahomes OL. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

23 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The only significant “new toy” he brought in is Kincaid… Harty and Sherfield have proven very little in the league so I find it odd fans keep talking these guys up…. But they did the same thing last year with players like Crowder and OJ Howard.
 

And I disagree the Chiefs had less weapons than the Bills. I would’ve taken what they had last season all day over what the Bills trotted out there. 

Kincaid was the big new toy. I'd agree that nothing else brought it weapon wise is as big a get as that was. However, Harty and Sherfield have potential to be good role players IF Dorsey figures out a way to use them. The IOL being potentially upgraded will also help. 

 

That's the whole point though. Dorsey couldn't scheme up anything for Hines. He really didn't use McKenzie to his strength last year. Almost zero jet sweeps...just plugged him in and hoped he'd morph into Cole Beasley. Found limited ways to use Knox. 

 

So, adding DHop does...what exactly? It puts a high priced body into a position where the coaching staff doesn't adjust to player skill sets but rather tries to fit what they have into the offense they want to run. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I see a lot of valid points here.  And I agree, the question isn't so much "Why does Allen need help". Let me reword that to "Why does the offense need more help?"

 

I think it would be safe to assume we would be able to agree that the IOL was a MAJOR reason that Josh had to go above and beyond last year. The quick pressure in his face led to plays breaking down quick on multiple occasions each game. I think it would also be safe to assume we could agree that the offense got way less than it hoped from the slot position. Those areas have (at least on paper, so far) been addressed. 

 

The issue that remains for me is the one I've stated both here and in other threads. You can improve the line, the weapons...but if you have a coaching issue you're throwing good money out the window. While the offense put up good stats last year the offensive philosophy wasn't much more than "Josh, do something good". I do think Dorsey has the possibility of improvement however I would like to see how he uses all the new toys Beane gave him before investing more cap in players that won't have an impact if not used well.

 

Even dating back to last season with Hines. We got him at the trade deadline and Dorsey couldn't figure out a way to use him...despite Beane talking up how he can play multiple spots and be a difference maker. They kept saying he was "still learning the playbook". They said the same thing this off-season about him. But Dorsey couldn't scheme up anything? Doesn't give me confidence that he can utilize a guy like DHop.

 

 

 

I recommend getting the A22 from NFL+. I re-watch every week and I see plays like below over and over. Allen doesn't even look at Shakir to his right who is wide open. He could have hopscotched into the endzone. Instead he thread the needle for a tough throw to Davis. The result is a highlight reel TD. On TV we see that and think "Allen has to put the team on his back. There are only contested throws. Our WR can't get open. Dorsey sucks, why can't he scheme anything". 

 

https://imgur.com/a/PG2vZc7

 

Allen is a generational talent and his talent plus moxy allows him to get away with a lot more than other less talented players in the league. But low percentage plays are still low percentage even if you are better at them than your peers. It has a tendency to stall our offense.  We just force the ball down field far too often. Josh almost never lets the ball go at the top of his drop. Sometimes he doesn't see the entire field. Sometimes he wants the bigger play and ignores the easy money. None the less a quicker release and spreading the ball out a lot more will help the run game, OL, and Diggs.

This is certainly a nuanced discussion where Dorsey, the OL, and our WR group all need to be better. But it is worth mentioning that that part of the load that Josh carries is weight he unnecessarily puts on his own shoulders. 

 

I will be hyped if we somehow navigate signing Hopkins. But we don't "neeeeeeed" Hopkins. Part of the expectation (rightfully) placed on a $40M QB is to do a lot more with a lot less than other QB's in the league. 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Mango

[longtimebillsfan]

My wife and I attended game 2 of the Stanley Cup finals last night. What a game... anyway, Hopkins was in attendance cranking the air raid siren before the beginning of the 3rd period.

 

Does this mean the Raiders are in play to sign DeAndre?

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I recommend getting the A22 from NFL+. I re-watch every week and I see plays like below over and over. Allen doesn't even look at Shakir to his right who is wide open. He could have hopscotched into the endzone. Instead he thread the needle for a tough throw to Davis. The result is a highlight reel TD. On TV we see that and think "Allen has to put the team on his back. There are only contested throws. Our WR can't get open. Dorsey sucks, why can't he scheme anything". 

 

https://imgur.com/a/PG2vZc7

 

That play is a poor example of what you're referring to. That isn't a needle throw. Davis by NFL standards is wide open. As soon as Allen sees the CB in trail and the LB flat footed without enough depth it is a quick read and an easy decision. Because of where his hips are facing at the top of his drop it is in fact the easier throw then readjusting to throw to Shakir. The play works exactly as designed - Knox and Diggs create enough traffic so Davis's man loses him. If the play didn't work Allen would have turned to Shakir as his outlet but he didn't need to.

 

To your overall point - in the New England offense, which we run a variation of, the reads go long to short. I heard Chris Simms talking about this last week. He was contrasting it to the Shanahan offense where reads go short to long. Our offense is designed to read deep first. I don't necessarily disagree that we should have some more short and quick passing concepts built in but that is more of a scheme change than an Allen change.

[RochesterLifer]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I recommend getting the A22 from NFL+. I re-watch every week and I see plays like below over and over. Allen doesn't even look at Shakir to his right who is wide open. He could have hopscotched into the endzone. Instead he thread the needle for a tough throw to Davis. The result is a highlight reel TD. On TV we see that and think "Allen has to put the team on his back. There are only contested throws. Our WR can't get open. Dorsey sucks, why can't he scheme anything". 

 

https://imgur.com/a/PG2vZc7

 

Allen is a generational talent and his talent plus moxy allows him to get away with a lot more than other less talented players in the league. But low percentage plays are still low percentage even if you are better at them than your peers. It has a tendency to stall our offense.  We just force the ball down field far too often. Josh almost never lets the ball go at the top of his drop. Sometimes he doesn't see the entire field. Sometimes he wants the bigger play and ignores the easy money. None the less a quicker release and spreading the ball out a lot more will help the run game, OL, and Diggs.

This is certainly a nuanced discussion where Dorsey, the OL, and our WR group all need to be better. But it is worth mentioning that that part of the load that Josh carries is weight he unnecessarily puts on his own shoulders. 

 

I will be hyped if we somehow navigate signing Hopkins. But we don't "neeeeeeed" Hopkins. Part of the expectation (rightfully) placed on a $40M QB is to do a lot more with a lot less than other QB's in the league. 

🤔 I don't hate this view.

[ChevyVanMiller]

4 hours ago, Irv said:

Did Hopkins get released?

"It's 11:00 O'clock, do you know where your FA WRs are?"