Jim Brown dead at 87

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

He would compete today and be a good starter, but I don't think he would be as dominant as he was in the 60's.

 

He would be Derrick Henry.

 

 

Nah.

 

Jim Brown was Jim Brown with training methods from the '50s. Today he would be a ton better than he was back then.

 

He might not have been quite as dominant, but still extremely.

[Returntoglory]

Rest in Peace ❤️ 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Statically Ruth was even more dominant 

 

in 1921 Ruth hit more home runs by himself than like 60% of MLB teams 

 

by himself 

 

that would be like Brown out rushing 6 teams by himself 

 

i never checked but if brown did that… incredible 

 

 

I saw your post and thought it sounded difficult but not impossible. Thought I'd check it out

 

His statistical dominance was truly insane. Look at 1963. Brown had 1863 yards, his best year. The second-best RB that year was Jim Taylor with the Pack. 1,018 yards. Number two in the league in a year when Brown had 1,863. Taylor had fewer carries, 248 to Brown's 291, but he was insane.

 

That year Brown averaged 133.1 Yards per Game on the ground. In the same year, the league average for production on the ground was 126.4.

 

That's the average for teams, not players. Brown totalled more yards on the ground than the league average for teams that year.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/rushing.htm

 

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I saw your post and thought it sounded difficult but not impossible. Thought I'd check it out

 

His statistical dominance was truly insane. Look at 1963. Brown had 1863 yards, his best year. The second-best RB that year was Jim Taylor with the Pack. 1,018 yards. Number two in the league in a year when Brown had 1,863. Taylor had fewer carries, 248 to Brown's 291, but he was insane.

 

That year Brown averaged 133.1 Yards per Game on the ground. In the same year, the league average for production on the ground was 126.4.

 

That's the average for teams, not players. Brown totalled more yards on the ground than the league average for teams that year.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/rushing.htm

 

 

Insane

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I saw your post and thought it sounded difficult but not impossible. Thought I'd check it out

 

His statistical dominance was truly insane. Look at 1963. Brown had 1863 yards, his best year. The second-best RB that year was Jim Taylor with the Pack. 1,018 yards. Number two in the league in a year when Brown had 1,863. Taylor had fewer carries, 248 to Brown's 291, but he was insane.

 

That year Brown averaged 133.1 Yards per Game on the ground. In the same year, the league average for production on the ground was 126.4.

 

That's the average for teams, not players. Brown totalled more yards on the ground than the league average for teams that year.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/rushing.htm

 

 

Well since you started the hard work I finished it … Browns 1863 yards that year were better than 9-12 teams or 75% of football 

 

certainly Spectacular 

[purple haze]

🙏🏾 Rest easy, Mr. Brown.

[Utah John]

I remember reading how when Jim Brown started his career, the Browns O line was not good.  Brown would just put his head down and try to grind out whatever he could get.  Then someone actually opened a hole for him, and he fell down forward because he wasn't expecting the lack of resistance.  After that the line got better and so did he.  

 

Simpson came into the league just a couple of years after Brown retired, while running backs were still the key players on the team, and we used to argue about whether Simpson was as good as Brown, but I don't think he was.  Simpson did break some of Brown's records, but as great as he was Simpson was still not as dangerous.  Simpson was maybe a little faster and a lot more elusive.  He was the same height as Brown (6' 2") but was about 15 pounds lighter.  Brown ran with much more power -- the difference was a lot more pronounced than you'd think 15 extra pounds would do., 

 

The difference in public perception came from Brown's publicly not taking any crap from anyone, while Simpson was the pretty boy happy good feeling non-threatening black man that white people could feel safe about.  Simpson was a little bit better as a actor -- OK, let's face it, he really was a little less bad -- but the biggest post-football difference is that Brown worked hard to improve the lot of black people through energetic community activism.  Simpson, like most other former athletes, just walked away to enjoy life.  

 

All that said, I still think OJ is the best running back ever not named Jim Brown.

[BuffaloBill]

RIP

[CoudyBills]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah.

 

Jim Brown was Jim Brown with training methods from the '50s. Today he would be a ton better than he was back then.

 

He might not have been quite as dominant, but still extremely.

Why do people fail to realize this?  They always want to argue that the guys he played against were not full time modern era players...duh, neither was he.

[The Jokeman]

My high school history teacher blocked for him at Syracuse.

[BillsPride12]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

 

 

The difference in public perception came from Brown's publicly not taking any crap from anyone, while Simpson was the pretty boy happy good feeling non-threatening black man that white people could feel safe about.  Simpson was a little bit better as a actor -- OK, let's face it, he really was a little less bad -- but the biggest post-football difference is that Brown worked hard to improve the lot of black people through energetic community activism.  Simpson, like most other former athletes, just walked away to enjoy life.  

 

 

Oh the irony! 

[T master]

RIP - JB Thanks for the memory's & for setting a bar of achievement & respectability high for all others that came after you in all you did  !! 

[StHustle]

17 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Mr. Brown’s private life was tumultuous. In his 1989 memoir, “Out of Bounds,” he revealed that he often attended sex parties and had extramarital affairs. He was arrested at least seven times for assault, usually against women, including a 1968 incident in which he was accused of throwing a girlfriend off a second-story balcony.

 

His first marriage, to Sue James, ended in divorce in 1972. In 2002, he spent nearly four months in jail for using a shovel to shatter the windows of a car belonging to his second wife, Monique Gunthorp Brown, who was almost 40 years younger than Mr. Brown. They remained married after his release.

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

[Tiberius]

Just now, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

It's true, so it's ok. 

 

It's a message board and it's not like it hurts his family or anything, why does it upset you? 

[BearNorth]

Jim Brown held the Long Island HS scoring record in basketball, averaging 38 ppg, later broken by a Carl Yastrzemski.

 

[tomur67]

Way back in the day, football fans from western New York were usually Giant's fans or Brown's fans.  I don't remember what year it was , but Cleveland hosted a twilight doubleheader.   The first game was the Giants vs. the Lions and the second game was the Browns vs. the Packers.   It was quite an attraction, naturally the stadium was packed.  After, the first game finished and getting ready for the second game, the Packer's team was announced and they all came out together as a group.  And then the Brown's team was announced and they all came out together, all except for Jim Brown.  All the lights in the stadium were then turned off.  The stadium was pitch black.  A single spotlight was turned on and Jim ran out on the field, with a thunderous roar from the crowd.   It was a moment and a feeling all who were there will never forget.

[TAinLack.]

19 hours ago, Chris from Rochester said:

I never saw him play but my dad would tell me stories of him carrying defenders into the endzone. RIP

A human tank/bulldozer!  RIP Sir!

[Let's Go Buffalo]

RIP Mr. Jim Brown! He was a Legend of the game and life in general. Mr. Brown was definitely a leader on and off the field. Thoughts and Prayers go out to his family!

[Success]

3 hours ago, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

 

I was wondering if anyone on this thread would bring up some of Brown's alleged off-field behavior.  

 

I don't think it's scummy to talk about it. It's part of his life & legacy.  I'll get downvoted, but from some of what I have seen and read about him, some of what he did could certainly be classified as scummy.

 

I think it's always complicated w/ sports & entertainment figures who have brilliant work, but also questionable activities in their private lives.  But I don't see why that should go unmentioned.

 

[Einstein]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

He might not have been quite as dominant, but still extremely.

 

You just described Henry. 

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

Alit from your high horse. The guy had anger issues.  Very well documented.

[Dr.Sack]

He’d tear it up in todays NFL

[benderbender]

As someone who enjoyed both the movie Mars Attacks, and old NFL highlight films this was a double whammy. RIP

[Shaw66]

14 hours ago, Utah John said:

I remember reading how when Jim Brown started his career, the Browns O line was not good.  Brown would just put his head down and try to grind out whatever he could get.  Then someone actually opened a hole for him, and he fell down forward because he wasn't expecting the lack of resistance.  After that the line got better and so did he.  

 

 

The story is that when Brown joined the Browns, it was very much an old-boys club.  White old-boys.  A lot of the players were friendly with the veteran, Ed Modzelewski, the starter at fullback the previous two seasons.   They didn't like the idea that some rookie wanted to take Ed's job, a Black rookie at that.  In training camp, the offensive line blocked better for Mo than for Brown.  After a while, several defenders said, "hey, even if you don't block for Brown, we can't tackle him."  The vets decided to put friendship aside, and Brown became the starter.  

[PrimeTime101]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The story is that when Brown joined the Browns, it was very much an old-boys club.  White old-boys.  A lot of the players were friendly with the veteran, Ed Modzelewski, the starter at fullback the previous two seasons.   They didn't like the idea that some rookie wanted to take Ed's job, a Black rookie at that.  In training camp, the offensive line blocked better for Mo than for Brown.  After a while, several defenders said, "hey, even if you don't block for Brown, we can't tackle him."  The vets decided to put friendship aside, and Brown became the starter.  

Spot on

Video on this exact same thing

https://www.nfl.com/videos/a-football-life-how-jim-brown-dealt-with-racial-discrimination-63446

[Bob in STL]

RIP Jim Brown. Running back GOAT. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

 

[Gene Frenkle]

RIP

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

Why? If its the truth its the truth. 

After OJ dies, are we not supposed to talk about the murder of two people anymore?

No person is perfect. Our heros are not perfect people. They can still be revered for all they accomplish but death doesn't erase all aspects good and bad of their lives.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He's still in my top 5 NFL players of all time though 3-5 bounce around in my head sometimes. 

 

1. Jerry Rice

2. Tom Brady

3. Lawrence Taylor

4. Joe Montana

5. Jim Brown

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Why? If its the truth its the truth. 

After OJ dies, are we not supposed to talk about the murder of two people anymore?

No person is perfect. Our heros are not perfect people. They can still be revered for all they accomplish but death doesn't erase all aspects good and bad of their lives.

Bro if you don’t get why it would be in bad taste that if YOUR death was reported on this forum, and someone who knew you came in and posted about all your failures and mistakes you made in life, then I don’t know what to tell you. I would defend you in the same way. He is a human who has passed.

 

He also has done tons of great things while on this earth. He is one of the most overall accomplished pro athletes in history. Yet someone feels the need to come and highlight the negative aspects in his 87 years of life. Just not the time to do something like that. It’s in very poor taste.

[PrimeTime101]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

You know how many times HE along with others on that team talked about how things were within that era of football? You think he or those team mates would want us to forget?  That is the last think they would want.  I do not want to get to deep into the topic cause as much as I feel it is always time to raise awareness? This is not the place.

 

I truly get what your saying, I really do. BUT. History should never be forgotten about. they would want us to learn from mistakes from others. 

 

it is what it is. 

[Manther]

RIP

[Mr. WEO]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

 

The guy is being lionized everywhere right now, and not just for his play.  In real life, he beat women, was accused of raping them, perhaps tried to kill one, treated his wife badly, even did a night in jail for choking out his golf partner.  In his dealings with individual people he was close to, he was an a-hole.  This is all well documented and consistent through his life ----absolutely can be appropriately  mentioned in an RIP thread.

 

On 5/19/2023 at 11:02 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah.

 

Jim Brown was Jim Brown with training methods from the '50s. Today he would be a ton better than he was back then.

 

He might not have been quite as dominant, but still extremely.

 

He may have been the greatest ever, but he was a man playing amongst boys. Who knows how he would fare vs current front 7's and modern schemes devised to stop him.

[eball]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, StHustle said:

Trying to understand the point of posting stuff like this after the announcement of someone’s death. Very scummy thing to do.

 

I don’t think it’s “scummy” to provide a well-rounded view of someone.  There are many, many people in history considered to be “great” who also struggled with their own demons.  It’s human nature.

 

We should all understand that humans are complex, multi-faceted beings.  It’s ok to recognize all of Jim Brown’s legendary greatness while also acknowledging his struggles.

 

Back on point — my dad always said Brown was the best player he’d ever seen.  I greatly respect that he used his fame in an effort to better the lives of others.

 

 

 

[StHustle]

33 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I don’t think it’s “scummy” to provide a well-rounded view of someone.  There are many, many people in history considered to be “great” who also struggled with their own demons.  It’s human nature.

 

We should all understand that humans are complex, multi-faceted beings.  It’s ok to recognize all of Jim Brown’s legendary greatness while also acknowledging his struggles.

 

Back on point — my dad always said Brown was the best player he’d ever seen.  I greatly respect that he used his fame in an effort to better the lives of others.

 

 

 

 

I responded to a person that made a post strictly highlighting Jim Browns shortcomings. They said nothing positive. They entered an RIP thread and made a point to highlight the negative things he's been involved in during his life. 

These players are human. Let's say you passed away eball...and a thread was made to tell everyone. Then someone who knows your history comes in and makes a post saying how "eball was arrested for DWI when he was 23. He got caught cheating on his girl when he was 25. He got into a fight at a bar two different times. He was fired from one of his jobs for being late too many times"

 

You don't see what I mean??? What is the point of attacking a guys character when they're dead? You're intentionally trying to throw dirt on their memory and for what good reason? Jim Brown was very beloved and highly respected. He has done way more good than bad. Like not even close. Attacking someone like thats character after death comes across as scummy and haterish to me. It's not in good taste and is pointless. That my opinion.

[eball]

6 minutes ago, StHustle said:

eball was arrested for DWI when he was 23. He got caught cheating on his girl when he was 25. He got into a fight at a bar two different times. He was fired from one of his jobs for being late too many times

 

Have you been talking to my shrink?

 

[Chandler#81]

42 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

I responded to a person that made a post strictly highlighting Jim Browns shortcomings. They said nothing positive. They entered an RIP thread and made a point to highlight the negative things he's been involved in during his life. 

These players are human. Let's say you passed away eball...and a thread was made to tell everyone. Then someone who knows your history comes in and makes a post saying how "eball was arrested for DWI when he was 23. He got caught cheating on his girl when he was 25. He got into a fight at a bar two different times. He was fired from one of his jobs for being late too many times"

 

You don't see what I mean??? What is the point of attacking a guys character when they're dead? You're intentionally trying to throw dirt on their memory and for what good reason? Jim Brown was very beloved and highly respected. He has done way more good than bad. Like not even close. Attacking someone like thats character after death comes across as scummy and haterish to me. It's not in good taste and is pointless. That my opinion.

Chill, man!

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

 

I responded to a person that made a post strictly highlighting Jim Browns shortcomings. They said nothing positive. They entered an RIP thread and made a point to highlight the negative things he's been involved in during his life. 

These players are human. Let's say you passed away eball...and a thread was made to tell everyone. Then someone who knows your history comes in and makes a post saying how "eball was arrested for DWI when he was 23. He got caught cheating on his girl when he was 25. He got into a fight at a bar two different times. He was fired from one of his jobs for being late too many times"

 

You don't see what I mean??? What is the point of attacking a guys character when they're dead? You're intentionally trying to throw dirt on their memory and for what good reason? Jim Brown was very beloved and highly respected. He has done way more good than bad. Like not even close. Attacking someone like thats character after death comes across as scummy and haterish to me. It's not in good taste and is pointless. That my opinion.

 

 

No one is attacking his character, nor throwing dirt on it---Jim Brown did that all by himself for much of his adult life.  In public,  the persona you mention is the one he was keen to cultivate.  In private, He treated people close to him badly (to put it very mildly).  If you insist on memorializing him, this is part of that memorial.  No one did thsi to Brown.  This is the life he led.  Simply mentioning it isn't an "attack".

Edited May 22, 2023 by Mr. WEO