Bobby Wagner - the solution to the Edmunds problem

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

5 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup, I thought we should have traded Edmunds last year and signed Wagner- but of course, that would have taken foresight from our FO…😉

Actually, it would have taken inept shortsightedness by the FO.  Even though Wagner had a good season, he has just about run out the string.  Why is he being released from a bad roster?  The answer to that may tell us all we need to know.  At this stage of his career, he isn't the guy that takes away the intermediate pass routes in the center of the field.  This is an important function in the scheme run by the Bills' defense.  Edmunds is the guy that lets the Bills do many of the things that they do in pass coverage.  The Edmunds haters would do well to watch a bunch of all 22 video of the Bills defense before making some of these pronouncements.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

We probably have enough cap space to afford one splash player after all available restructures are executed. Do we really want to use that one splash signing on a LB? That logic applies to Wagner and Edmunds. It's time to make a splash signing on offense.

You are missing the point.  By signing Wagner you rid yourself of Edmunds.  Edmunds you tag and trade.  You get Wagner who is an upgrade at LB, you avoid a long term deal with Edmunds, and you probably net a first and a 3rd round pick for Edmunds.  It's win, win, win! And win the SuperBowl!

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Actually, it would have taken inept shortsightedness by the FO.  Even though Wagner had a good season, he has just about run out the string.  Why is he being released from a bad roster?  The answer to that may tell us all we need to know.  At this stage of his career, he isn't the guy that takes away the intermediate pass routes in the center of the field.  This is an important function in the scheme run by the Bills' defense.  Edmunds is the guy that lets the Bills do many of the things that they do in pass coverage.  The Edmunds haters would do well to watch a bunch of all 22 video of the Bills defense before making some of these pronouncements.

Are there any decent QBs who worry about Edmunds presence in the middle of the field? If Edmunds is key to the defense, what does it say that the unit consistently comes up short when it matters? 

[Norcalbillsfan]

Depends on what edmunds wants and what Wagner is willing to take for a SB run. There's a real chance that edmunds thinks he can get around 20 mil and there's probably teams like the giants that would pay it. Bills should not tie up that kind of money.

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

8-time all-pro. 6-time first team all-pro. Highest rated PFF linebacker last year.

 

Just. Sayin.

I don’t care what he’s done I wanna know what he’s gonna do for us now, and in the future

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I think the Rams are done and Stafford is old, expensive and had two concussions last year.  If he hung it up it wouldnt shock me at all then the rams will really flounder.

They are doing a mild rebuild cuz $ already spent

2 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Actually, it would have taken inept shortsightedness by the FO.  Even though Wagner had a good season, he has just about run out the string.  Why is he being released from a bad roster?  The answer to that may tell us all we need to know.  At this stage of his career, he isn't the guy that takes away the intermediate pass routes in the center of the field.  This is an important function in the scheme run by the Bills' defense.  Edmunds is the guy that lets the Bills do many of the things that they do in pass coverage.  The Edmunds haters would do well to watch a bunch of all 22 video of the Bills defense before making some of these pronouncements.

Good insight to Bills game.

 But I suggest that Bills need to change the defense up to some degree regardless. Since it has been figured out : (

21 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Depends on what edmunds wants and what Wagner is willing to take for a SB run. There's a real chance that edmunds thinks he can get around 20 mil and there's probably teams like the giants that would pay it. Bills should not tie up that kind of money.

17

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t care what he’s done I wanna know what he’s gonna do for us now, and in the future

something different than Edmunds ?

[Einstein's Dog]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

We probably have enough cap space to afford one splash player after all available restructures are executed. Do we really want to use that one splash signing on a LB? That logic applies to Wagner and Edmunds. It's time to make a splash signing on offense.

I think the FO can do several moves, not many splash though.  But I am with you and would like to see more resources put towards the offensive side..  I'd like to see the FO get a FA OLman, and draft one.  Then also get a veteran skill position offensive player - an OBJ/Hopkins/Evans/Thomas or D Henry.

 

To do multiple moves it would mean unloading defensive salary - Edmunds gone, Poyer gone, I wouldn't mind seeing Oliver traded.    

[RichRiderBills]

I prefer TJ Edwards 

[Simon Says]

You know he has been released? Got a big payday and had an excellent year. I would still rather have the much younger Edmunds

[BuffaloRebound]

It looks like there will be a lot of veteran LB’s available.  There’s talk of the Jets cutting Mosley too.  None of these guys are as big and fast as Edmunds, but any drop off might be overcome by sacks, run stops, and turnovers generated by a replacement that Edmunds doesn’t currently produce.  

[Orlando Tim]

I do not think that Edmunds is the only backer who can run our defense but Wagner is not one of the solutions. The solution is primarily fast, secondly long, and thirdly large enough to disrupt. Wagner is not fast enough or long enough, but dude has the third part in spades, much more than Edmunds. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

lol, Who?

Almost anyone, Oliver will not be missed

[BillsFanForever19]

15 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

We should be able to re-sign Edmunds with a hit of about $9M this year. Would need to get Wagner under that when he was set to have a $12M cap hit this year.

 

If we can get him on a 3/$30M with a $7M cap hit this year, then maybe.

 

I don't see it. Edmunds is 24 years old, with 5 years of experience, a relatively clean bill of health, elite measurables and athleticism for a man his size, and 2 Pro Bowls while QB'ing one of the top ranked Defenses in the NFL.

 

Regardless of how people feel about him around here, those are a lot of qualities that go into what makes one HIGHLY overpaid on the open market. He's already said he's going to test that field and that market is going to be well beyond our price range.

 

He's gone and people on this board are going to be shocked by the contract he signs for with another team.

Edited February 25, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[BobbyC81]

12 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I think the Rams are done and Stafford is old, expensive and had two concussions last year.  If he hung it up it wouldnt shock me at all then the rams will really flounder.

 
When Stafford led the Rams to a title, he was a savior.  Now he’s trash?
 

Remember, he had a shoulder injury to start the year, lost his best O-lineman to retirement and then lost his best receiver early in the year.  
 

I recently read an article about all the NFL teams’ QB situations, and they also said they needed a new QB.  I could be wrong but I don’t think he’s done.

[nosejob]

21 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

8-time all-pro. 6-time first team all-pro. Highest rated PFF linebacker last year.

 

Just. Sayin.

Last year 124 tackles  6 sacks  5 pdef. 2 ints. Would we ever see this from Edmunds?

[nosejob]

9 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I don't see it. Edmunds is 24 years old, with 5 years of experience, a relatively clean bill of health, elite measurables and athleticism for a man his size, and 2 Pro Bowls while QB'ing one of the top ranked Defenses in the NFL.

 

Regardless of how people feel about him around here, those are a lot of qualities that go into what makes one HIGHLY overpaid on the open market. He's already said he's going to test that field and that market is going to be well beyond our price range.

 

He's gone and people on this board are going to be shocked by the contract he signs for with another team.

I won't be shocked....probably laughing. I would have targeted the Bears or Lions last year for high picks rds. 2-4 in some way. I had my eye on Christian Harris LB from Alabama. Looks like the LB class is better this year.

[JohnNord]

19 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Incredible longevity.   How young was he in 2002?

2022

[MrEpsYtown]

14 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

I prefer TJ Edwards 

Close to Zero chance they pursue him. They have shown zero interest in that type of linebacker in the past. I think they pursue Germaine Pratt, Cole Holcomb, Bobby Okereke, Cody Barton, maybe a Zach Cunningham, Anthony Walker Jr. or Leighton Vander Esch if Edmunds goes. Those guys are the types of athletes they typically pursue. A lot of people have mentioned Shaq Thompson if cut, I could see that as well. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I like Edwards, I just don’t think he is their type. 

[DrDawkinstein]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I don't see it. Edmunds is 24 years old, with 5 years of experience, a relatively clean bill of health, elite measurables and athleticism for a man his size, and 2 Pro Bowls while QB'ing one of the top ranked Defenses in the NFL.

 

Regardless of how people feel about him around here, those are a lot of qualities that go into what makes one HIGHLY overpaid on the open market. He's already said he's going to test that field and that market is going to be well beyond our price range.

 

He's gone and people on this board are going to be shocked by the contract he signs for with another team.

 

The 5/$100M deal Roquan Smith just signed has his cap hits as $9M and $13M the first 2 years because of the long term deal.

 

Edmunds will likely sign a 5 or 6 year deal as well. So even if it is for $120M, his cap hit in 2023 should be under $10M.

 

I urge everyone to take a good look at the structure of the Smith deal as an example of how we could bring Edmunds back cheaper than what he cost us this past year.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/

[Chicken Boo]

22 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Yeah, just what we need...another 33-year-old FA on a huge contract to further tie our hands for years to come.

 

He wouldn't be getting a long-term deal and even at 33, he's a significant upgrade over Edmunds.  

[Billz4ever]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

He wouldn't be getting a long-term deal and even at 33, he's a significant upgrade over Edmunds.  

Maybe he's looking for a multi year deal.  

 

I'd be fine with a one year deal.  Multi year makes it much more difficult.

[RyanC883]

23 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

You think Wagner would go for that?  

 

If he wants big money guaranteed up front, forget about it.

 

Not sure what to make of Edmunds.  Him saying he's going to test FA makes me think he doesn't believe the Bills will give him what he wants (or already knows that).

 

depends, if he really wants to be released to play for a contender he might.  We should def try, if he says no, then I'd draft Overshow from Texas or the guy from Ark whose name I cannot recall.  

 

I agree Edmunds is likely gone, and that's fine, we get crushed on D with him there and without him there, so I'd rather spend big money on offense.  (again, would only want Wagner at a good deal, but he is better than Edmunds, so ok spending money there, then instead of drafting Overshow this year, keep drafting offense.)  

[Rigotz]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:10 PM, John from Riverside said:

I don’t care what he’s done I wanna know what he’s gonna do for us now, and in the future

 

So ... he was rated the best linebacker in the league last year, but he's getting older.

 

He'll give the Bills 1-2 more years of elite production, because that's what he's done his entire career including last year.

 

If he was the best linebacker in the league and was 24 years old, we wouldn't be able to afford him and his team probably wouldn't let him go.

 

Not sure what kind of answer you're looking for outside of this.

[Kiva]

Let him go. He is overrated and a liability. We will be better without him. 

[DCofNC]

On 2/24/2023 at 11:56 AM, Jerome007 said:

Are the Rams really done? They won the SB just one year ago! They had so many injuries you can't even gauge their "power rankings".

 

If Edmunds can get 12M, yes, it'd probably be better to get Wagner instead.

The Rams went all in and now have few picks and a salary cap mess, plus a bunch of older guys.  Donald has talked about retirement multiple times, Stafford should retire, they have no weapons on O outside of Kupp at this point.. it ain’t great.  If I we’re running the show there, I’d go all out this year.  Dump Stafford, sign Baker for a short deal, try to get Donald to retire or get traded, Wags is already gone.  Maybe MAYBE even move Kupp for picks.  They need to re-stock the cupboards. 

[Thrivefourfive]

Anyone else get the feeling that we think this defense is hinging on this position? I mean, I know it’s an important position, but should such a great defense (statistically) be held hostage by Edmunds.. which is crazy because he’s not even a game changer. Should a defense with this much invested in it be more complete on the field and not so dependent on the talents of one position? 

[GreggTX]

Apart from money considerations, he's still got gas in the tank. I just don't want to put too much money on the LB position when our OL is such a disaster.

 

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:43 AM, Billz4ever said:

Not if he's going to want $12M still. That's more than Milano is making.

 

Cant compare todays deals with the larger cap to deals other players signed already in the past, they are not equally comparable. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Cant compare todays deals with the larger cap to deals other players signed already in the past, they are not equally comparable. 

 

Agree. 2 year inflation does that regardless, but also Milano signed in the cap down year I think didn't he? If my timing is right. So deals that year were all affected and a lot of teams got a relative bargain.

[Billz4ever]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Cant compare todays deals with the larger cap to deals other players signed already in the past, they are not equally comparable. 

Point being I don't think Edmunds is worth more than Milano as a player on this team.  I'm sure some team will pay him Roquan Smith-type money, but hopefully it's not the Bills unless it's a very light up-front contract that's more backloaded and gives the Bills an out in a couple years.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Billz4ever

[RoyBatty is alive]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:52 AM, BobbyC81 said:

 
When Stafford led the Rams to a title, he was a savior.  Now he’s trash?
 

Remember, he had a shoulder injury to start the year, lost his best O-lineman to retirement and then lost his best receiver early in the year.  
 

I recently read an article about all the NFL teams’ QB situations, and they also said they needed a new QB.  I could be wrong but I don’t think he’s done.

I didnt write or infer he is "now trash" but now he has had two serious documented concussions, the Rams have a lot of holes and  Stafford now has a Ring....those are all a lot of excellent reasons to retire.

[Warriorspikes51]

15 hours ago, Kiva said:

Let him go. He is overrated and a liability. We will be better without him. 

what?? He was ALL PRO this year

[harmonkillebrew]

On 2/24/2023 at 12:22 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

We should be able to re-sign Edmunds with a hit of about $9M this year. Would need to get Wagner under that when he was set to have a $12M cap hit this year.

 

If we can get him on a 3/$30M with a $7M cap hit this year, then maybe.

This is the best logic.

While I think Wagner could actually be a short-term improvement, given Edmunds age, you can spread out his guaranteed $$ over say a 7 year contract, with outs later on, so his cap next year is lower than anyone else you could sign. That gives us more room to bring in a FA WR and G.

 

However, really we should look to add a playmaking LB from the draft. You can get fine production from rookie LBs 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, harmonkillebrew said:

This is the best logic.

While I think Wagner could actually be a short-term improvement, given Edmunds age, you can spread out his guaranteed $$ over say a 7 year contract, with outs later on, so his cap next year is lower than anyone else you could sign. That gives us more room to bring in a FA WR and G.

 

However, really we should look to add a playmaking LB from the draft. You can get fine production from rookie LBs 

 

Thanks.

 

WRT bold, hate to say it but this is where we miss Whaley. He had a knack for later LBs. Bradham, Johnson, Milano...

 

For Beane and Co. trying to replace Edmunds through the draft means an early pick, and I'd say a 50/50 shot on hitting.

 

I already wanted our first 3 picks to be IOL/IOL/WR, in whatever order necessary. I guess if we use the money to sign Ben Powers we could get away with only drafting 1 IOL early. Maybe have a draft of LB/IOL/WR, in that order.

 

I dunno. I dont think it's that easy to pluck a playmaking LB from the draft as needed.

[harmonkillebrew]

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Thanks.

 

WRT bold, hate to say it but this is where we miss Whaley. He had a knack for later LBs. Bradham, Johnson, Milano...

 

For Beane and Co. trying to replace Edmunds through the draft means an early pick, and I'd say a 50/50 shot on hitting.

 

I already wanted our first 3 picks to be IOL/IOL/WR, in whatever order necessary. I guess if we use the money to sign Ben Powers we could get away with only drafting 1 IOL early. Maybe have a draft of LB/IOL/WR, in that order.

 

I dunno. I dont think it's that easy to pluck a playmaking LB from the draft as needed.

I'm thinking WR/ILB/OL in first three rounds

G and WR in FA

hopefully re-sign Poyer

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

I'm thinking WR/ILB/OL in first three rounds

G and WR in FA

hopefully re-sign Poyer

 

 

I'm not one to just assign positions to rounds.........but the way the board looks to me that really might be the way the value falls for them.    

 

And yes on the FA.

 

I will be surprised if they go into the draft with MLB as a need though..........I think they sign one of the many off-ball LB in UFA to be the starter in the event the draft doesn't produce one.

[Rigotz]

Can’t say I didn’t warn you!

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Oh please let this happen. 

He was cur so he does not even count in the comp formula calculator for Edmunds. 

He would be perfect for this team.  Perfext leader to pait with Hyde and Poyer 

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Can’t say I didn’t warn you!

 

 

 

Fake account 

[King Allen of New York]

2 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Can’t say I didn’t warn you!

 

 

 

That dude has 300 followers and is very likely a very fake account.