McBeane's investment in the D Line last five seasons

[Process]

Trent Murphy

Star Lotulelei

Mario Addison

Quinton Jefferson

Vernon Butler

Von Miller

Tim Settle

Daquan Jones

Jordan Phillips

Shaq Lawson

 

1st round pick - Ed Oliver

1st round pick - Greg Rousseua

2nd round pick - AJ Epenesa

2nd round pick - Boogie Basham

3rd round pick - Harrison Phillips

 

We didn't even sniff Burrow today. Manhandled and pushed 5 yards down the field every run play. One of the worst performances by a defensive line I've ever seen. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Process

[Mango]

Not to say I’ve told you so. But I’ve been pounding this table for a year or two. Plus paying Von. We’ve had the most expensive defense for some time as well. 
 

But here we are with 23 UFA’s, no cap space, and a million holes. 
 

And it doesn’t stand alone. The RB position is similar.

 

But then walk into the season with Kumerow but cute with Hodgins.
 

Todays result was compounding roster decisions.  
 

 

[CircleTheWagons99]

Wasting years and picks. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by CircleTheWagons99

[Yobogoya!]

Yeah I said it in game thread but our ability to evaluate talent needs to be called into serious question. 
 

Beane bought a lot of goodwill by hitting on the Josh pick but his pro scouting and drafting have both been shaky at best all over the roster. For the number of high draft picks on defense to not turn up one single game changer is extremely concerning. Like, not every pick can be elite but that many swings to miss on every one? 

[BillMafia716ix]

They’ve completely missed on all the defensive lineman they added except Von. I’m still holding out hope for Greg Rousseau. 
As far as Ed Oliver..I’m done with him. Not the impact player the Bills hoped he would be 

[BarleyNY]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

Not to say I’ve told you so. But I’ve been pounding this table for a year or two. Plus paying Von. We’ve had the most expensive defense for some time as well. 
 

But here we are with 23 UFA’s, no cap space, and a million holes. 
 

And it doesn’t stand alone. The RB position is similar.

 

But then walk into the season with Kumerow but cute with Hodgins.
 

Todays result was compounding roster decisions.  
 

 

The massive cap and draft capital invested in the DL specifically and defense in general are yet to pay any discernible dividends in the post season. That’s any post season. It is ridiculous. 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The massive cap and draft capital invested in the DL specifically and defense in general are yet to pay any discernible dividends in the post season. That’s any post season. It is ridiculous. 

And it’s stunted growth just about everywhere else. 

[HurlyBurly51]

7 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

They’ve completely missed on all the defensive lineman they added except Von. I’m still holding out hope for Greg Rousseau. 
As far as Ed Oliver..I’m done with him. Not the impact player the Bills hoped he would be 

Vons gonna be 34 and recovering from ACL while eating up massive cap space.  Yeah, he was good, but the reward didn't pay off the risk.

[McBean]

It’s all a freakin Joke.

 

Defensive HC not building around your best player Josh Allen.

 

Time and another year wasted.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Not a single elite player drafted the last 4 years.  Nothing but role players and blown picks.

[buffblue]

29 minutes ago, Process said:

Trent Murphy

Star Lotulelei

Mario Addison

Quinton Jefferson

Vernon Butler

Von Miller

Tim Settle

Daquan Jones

Jordan Phillips

 

1st round pick - Ed Oliver

1st round pick - Greg Rousseua

2nd round pick - AJ Epenesa

2nd round pick - Boogie Basham

 

We didn't even sniff Burrow today. Manhandled and pushed 5 yards down the field every run play. One of the worst performances by a defensive line I've ever seen. 

Embarrassing, but even worse not really surprising

[Dan Darragh]

1 minute ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Not a single elite player drafted the last 4 years.  Nothing but role players and blown picks.

Well we did draft the punt god...

[Bangarang]

It's literally the same thing with the OL. Lots of resources invested to create a mediocre unit. 

[Yobogoya!]

11 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

They’ve completely missed on all the defensive lineman they added except Von. I’m still holding out hope for Greg Rousseau. 
As far as Ed Oliver..I’m done with him. Not the impact player the Bills hoped he would be 

Ed Oliver has to be the closest to elite I’ve ever seen from a JAG. 
 

But he’s never taken over and dominated a game and it’s pretty obvious that he’s never going to. 

[finn]

13 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

They’ve completely missed on all the defensive lineman they added except Von. I’m still holding out hope for Greg Rousseau. 
As far as Ed Oliver..I’m done with him. Not the impact player the Bills hoped he would be 

Not sure I'm done with him, but he's not elite and should not be paid that way. He's a nice player who disappears a lot. Elite players don't disappear like he di today. 

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The massive cap and draft capital invested in the DL specifically and defense in general are yet to pay any discernible dividends in the post season. That’s any post season. It is ridiculous. 

Rousseau was a good pick, and Jones was a good pickup. Miller was a brave gamble that was paying off until he got hurt. The rest play like backups. That's a lot of picks and money that could have gone into much better players. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

5 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

Ed Oliver has to be the closest to elite I’ve ever seen from a JAG. 
 

But he’s never taken over and dominated a game and it’s pretty obvious that he’s never going to. 

He’s been invisible this year and we’re gonna pay him 11 mil next year 

[SirAndrew]

Beane made too many luxury picks on DL. I’m not just referring to multiple picks at the same position, but also drafting guys who are projects that take time. Those are picks you make with a Lombardi Trophy, not while trying to take the next step. 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, finn said:

 

Rousseau was a good pick, and Jones was a good pickup. Miller was a brave gamble that was paying off until he got hurt. The rest play like backups. That's a lot of picks and money that could have gone into much better players. 

The thing with Rousseau is that he has no bend and limited lateral agility. He is great at stacking and shedding and his exceptional length gives him great range to get to ball carriers. But he needs a great bend-the-edge DE like Von Miller opposite him to flush QBs to his side. He’ll get the occasional bull rush sack or open lane sack, but he’s limited and is going to disappear without a player on the field doing what Von can.

 

Oliver is a very good player. He should get his fifth year option picked up.* Him sticking around long term will probably depend on his contract demands. Keeping him long term might be tough. 

*edit: Oliver already had his 5th year option picked up last off-season. He will play on it next season unless he signs an extension. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Billz4ever]

39 minutes ago, Process said:

We didn't even sniff Burrow today. Manhandled and pushed 5 yards down the field every run play. One of the worst performances by a defensive line I've ever seen. 

And to add insult to injury, it was against an O-line down 3 starters.

 

We had all our O-line starters and Josh was running for his life.  They were even getting pressure by rushing just 3.

[Brandon]

There were a lot of us who were of the same line of thinking over the last couple of seasons.  The level of priority the Bills have placed on defense just isn't in tune with the reality of how the game is played anymore.  

 

At this stage,  I feel like we're becoming the reincarnation of the 80s Broncos,  who wasted a decade of John Elway's career with defensive minded coach who didn't surround him with the talent or scheme that he needed. 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

The thing with Rousseau is that he has not bend and limited lateral agility. He is great at stacking and shedding and his exceptional length gives him great range to get to ball carriers. But he needs a great bend the edge DE like Von Miller opposite him to flush QBs to his side. He’ll get the occasional bull rush or open lane sack, but he’s limited without a player on the field doing what Von can.

 

Oliver is a very good player. He should get his fifth year option picked up. Him sticking around long term will probably depend on his contract demands. Keeping him long term might be tough. 

Groot was effective and complimentary when we had Von.  Once Von went down and his double-teams went away, the weaknesses in this line were exposed.

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

If I have to hear how we are the #1 Defense in the league one more time........🤢🤮

[Toyo321]

17 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Vons gonna be 34 and recovering from ACL while eating up massive cap space.  Yeah, he was good, but the reward didn't pay off the risk.

I said this weeks ago that Von was a huge signing mistake, way to much money for a 34 year old and way, way to much guaranteed money too.

I  could not believe all the disagree & vomit reactions I got to that post.

 

Well guess what,  to all those critics,  now I would like to say!!!!

 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

37 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

Yeah I said it in game thread but our ability to evaluate talent needs to be called into serious question. 
 

Beane bought a lot of goodwill by hitting on the Josh pick but his pro scouting and drafting have both been shaky at best all over the roster. For the number of high draft picks on defense to not turn up one single game changer is extremely concerning. Like, not every pick can be elite but that many swings to miss on every one? 

Beane & McDermott have defensively failed this team at the expense of protecting Josh with a better OL.  

[oldmanfan]

I have been wondering if it’s the guys or the scheme.  Today it was the guys.  They simply got beat physically.

 

Groot is a keeper.  Basham is a situational guy.  Same with AJ.  Oliver it’s hard to tell since he was hurt, but if he leaves I can’t say I’d be disappointed.

 

 

[Victory Formation]

4 minutes ago, Toyo321 said:

I said this weeks ago that Von was a huge signing mistake, way to much money for a 34 year old and way, way to much guaranteed money too.

I  could not believe all the disagree & vomit reactions I got to that post.

 

Well guess what,  to all those critics,  now I would like to say!!!!

 

 

 

Right there with you on that one. Some times the “M” in masses is silent.

[schoolhouserock]

It does seem like similar results could be had with fewer resources. The need to redirect investment into the O-line is DIRE.

[colin]

We get trucked by a physical team running down our throats every year w McDermott.  This year, it happened today.

 

Since we got diggs and Allen, it has been

2020

Ten and to some extend KC the next week, and then in the playoffs Indy trucked us a bit but we got lucky.

 

2021

Indy absolutely just destroyed us mind body and soul at home in the rain.  

 

2022

Cinci at home in a playoff game 

 

All of these games started off w the bills getting trucked and stayed that way.

 

The truth is our coaches are stubborn and arrogant.  They do so little actual game planning, and instead just run their magic system all the time.

 

We draft and sign players based on our moron schemes, so much so we had to sign brown and bease, and Phillips and Lawson this season!  This is bill parcels levels of stocking to your old guys, but parcels won Superbowls and we haven't sniffed one.

 

They say this team is designed, players and schemes, means we have no room to change jack nor cope when guys go down.

 

Cinci had young and banged up corners, and three fricken linemen missing, but they just knew to be physical w our princess of a team.  We had no answers at all.  On the other side, our OL was fully up and running, and they sucked out loud.

 

The idea that we HAVE to pay Edmunds a billion dollars because our scheme is so impossible that we cant run it without his unique talent of getting good regular season stats and getting blasted in the playoffs is a reflection of the good money after bad moves we make.

 

Baltimore is in a better position right now to win a chip than we are, for example.  While they have a gimmick O and don't have their rb/QB signed, and just canned their DC and OC in consecutive seasons, they played better w more heart than we ever did vs the bengals, and have real linemen and leadership in their building.

 

We are soft finesse front runners who rely on Allen to rescue our crap every game.

 

I'd sign Roman, or whoever, and whatever dc we can get (or have mcd run the d, I don't care, some kind of change) because our team is ready to be beat by any team that can be physical, and we have all these resources tied up in these goofy small scheme specific people (our safties, lbs, corners, and linemen cost a ton and we never see to get more than one for two of them to play at a high level).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GreggTX]

Beane has been OK on draft days, but his success with drafting OL and DL has been subpar. I like Rousseau and Jones as well as Phillips when he's healthy. Von might come back strong, but maybe we need to sign linemen and draft the skill positions.

 

[Lost]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have been wondering if it’s the guys or the scheme.  Today it was the guys.  They simply got beat physically.

 

Groot is a keeper.  Basham is a situational guy.  Same with AJ.  Oliver it’s hard to tell since he was hurt, but if he leaves I can’t say I’d be disappointed.

 

 

 

Groot has shown flashes but when we have speed edge guys like him and von vs. a QB like Burrow or Brady who simply step up in the pocket they just spend most the game just blowing right by QB, especially when the guys in the middle are getting no push.   

[BillsVet]

Scheme on offense and defense driving personnel acquisition needs a complete overhaul.  

 

Meaning...McD needs his authority checked by the GM.  Probably won't happen, but neither will Buffalo advance to play in the SB until it does.  

 

[Billz4ever]

14 minutes ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

If I have to hear how we are the #1 Defense in the league one more time........🤢🤮

If there was ever an example needed to demonstrate how stats can be deceiving and often do not tell the whole story, it's that one.

[HumbleAndHungry]

Is it more poor drafting (Beane) or poor player development (McDermott)? 

[Big Blitz]

The following rosters in the AFC top to bottom are superior to ours:

 

Cincinnati 

Miami 

Chargers 

Maybe:

 

Chiefs 

Ravens 

Browns 

 

Yet still the 2 seed.  Either because of Allen, coaching, or both.  

 

 

So.  Wtf are we supposed to do??

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The following rosters in the AFC top to bottom are superior to ours:

 

Cincinnati 

Miami 

Chargers 

Maybe:

 

Chiefs 

Ravens 

Browns 

 

Yet still the 2 seed.  Either because of Allen, coaching, or both.  

 

 

So.  Wtf are we supposed to do??

Allen

[Dr.Sack]

Bills spent these resources in an attempt to win playoff games. Unfortunately because of injury and bad luck they haven’t made the impact in the playoffs as we would have hoped.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

I took a quick look at the last 4 drafts.  The front office and the scouts have done a bad job at the draft.  Misses on both sides of the ball that need to be covered over by signing lower-tier free agents that are just good enough for the regular season but abysmal in the playoffs.  Not to mention playing second-guessing by looking at their draft picks and then looking at who was available. 

I really believe that without Josh Allen playing super hero this team is a 6 or 7 win roster at best.   In the division Jets and Dolphins have gotten better the past two drafts and the Bills are running in place recycling marginal free agents into the OL and DL. 

[Process]

7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

The following rosters in the AFC top to bottom are superior to ours:

 

Cincinnati 

Miami 

Chargers 

Maybe:

 

Chiefs 

Ravens 

Browns 

 

Yet still the 2 seed.  Either because of Allen, coaching, or both.  

 

 

So.  Wtf are we supposed to do??

Chiefs are not a maybe. Chris Jones is a better d lineman than all of ours combined. 

 

Kelce plus one of the best o lines in the entire league. 

[Billz4ever]

13 minutes ago, colin said:

L'd sign Roman, or whoever, and whatever dc we can get (or have mcd run the d, I don't care, some kind of change) because our team is ready to be beat by any team that can be physical, and we have all these resources tied up in these goofy small scheme specific people (our safties, lbs, corners, and linemen cost a ton and we never see to get more than one for two of them to play at a high level).

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the problems start with McD.  While McD being let go anytime soon is probably highly unlikely in my opinion, I just don't think he's a guy that will ever reach the promise land.  If he had a problem with how Frazier was running the D today, then he should've stepped in.  The fact he didn't tells me he was OK with the schemes that had our DB's playing 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 4.  

[Dan]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

I think the problems start with McD.  While McD being let go anytime soon is probably highly unlikely in my opinion, I just don't think he's a guy that will ever reach the promise land.  If he had a problem with how Frazier was running the D today, then he should've stepped in.  The fact he didn't tells me he was OK with the schemes that had our DB's playing 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 4.  

3rd and 4.. the entire D on the line.  Immediate pressure on Burrow!!   But tre was 10yards off the LOS ...easy toss and 5 yard gain to chase.  At that moment.. i knew we were losing.   They ..do not.. know how to play physical defense.