Bengals @ Bills - Post Game Thread - January 22, 2023 - NFL Divisional Round Playoffs

[zow2]

In these blowout games,  no team is as good as they look and no team is as bad.  This was a terrible plan by Bills coaches, terrible execution by the players... and a terrific plan by the Bengals.  Plus Burrow executed at a high level.  He's really good.   As the saying goes, Burrow may be a slightly better QB, but Allen is the better all around football player and that's not debatable.

 

I think the Chiefs are going to expose the Cincinnati Oline unlike the Bills.

[CincyBillsFan]

43 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Don't lie to yourself. The Bengals have a lot more player talent than the Bills. 

 

They are light years ahead of Buffalo in the WR category. 

 

Obviously, both their lines are by far superior than the Bills. 

 

At this point Burrow is better than Allen. Hate to say it but he looks almost flawless when he plays. The guy knows how to carve an offense, escape pressure, and lead his team to big wins. He's a winner!  He's not as physically gifted but I believe he's a better all around QB. He looks Tom Brady like while Allen looks like Brett Favre. High risk and high reward. 

 

The Bills are better on special teams. That's about it. 

The Bengals WR's are way better then the Bills.  The Bengals TE is a little better then the Bills.  The Bengals RBs are way better then the Bills.  When healthy the Bengal's O line is better then the Bills.

 

But IMO there is little objective evidence that Burrow is as good as Allen at QB.  Now the difference isn't great but the fact that Allen can get the production out of his offenses talent that he does convinces me he's a better QB. And I like Burrow, followed his amazing season at LSU and live in Cincinnati where I watch him play a lot.   The fact is that Allen would take far fewer sacks and have more big time off script plays then Burrow.  Sure Allen wouldn't be quite as lethal in the short game but he would more then make up for it in the intermediate & long game.  And while Burrow is an effective running QB Allen is one of the top 3.

 

 

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The Bengals WR's are way better then the Bills.  The Bengals TE is a little better then the Bills.  The Bengals RBs are way better then the Bills.  When healthy the Bengal's O line is better then the Bills.

 

But IMO there is little objective evidence that Burrow is as good as Allen at QB.  Now the difference isn't great but the fact that Allen can get the production out of his offenses talent that he does convinces me he's a better QB. And I like Burrow, followed his amazing season at LSU and live in Cincinnati where I watch him play a lot.   The fact is that Allen would take far fewer sacks and have more big time off script plays then Burrow.  Sure Allen wouldn't be quite as lethal in the short game but he would more then make up for it in the intermediate & long game.  And while Burrow is an effective running QB Allen is one of the top 3.

 

 

That's more than fair. As for myself, I would take Allen over Burrow without hesitation. His physical traits are one of a kind. 

 

However, Burrow has a certain it factor that's very difficult to put into words and measure. I think this is where he has the slight edge on Allen. A winner in college and led a team to the Super Bowl with an awful oline. Now likely to appear in another Super Bowl. Watching him last Sunday reminded me of watching Tom Brady. Wouldn't you agree. How he read the defense and with precision picked apart the Bills secondary. I told me son wow he reminds me of Brady in real time. Meanwhile, Allen was missing passes to a wide open Diggs for a TD. Sure he was under pressure but he still has to make that pass! 

 

With better team help on the oline and more weapons I can totally see Allen outshining Burrow. Problem is can and will this happen. Until them Allen's talent and accomplishments will be stunted. 

[Meatloaf63]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Don't lie to yourself. The Bengals have a lot more player talent than the Bills. 

 

They are light years ahead of Buffalo in the WR category. 

 

Obviously, both their lines are by far superior than the Bills. 

 

At this point Burrow is better than Allen. Hate to say it but he looks almost flawless when he plays. The guy knows how to carve an offense, escape pressure, and lead his team to big wins. He's a winner!  He's not as physically gifted but I believe he's a better all around QB. He looks Tom Brady like while Allen looks like Brett Favre. High risk and high reward. 

 

The Bills are better on special teams. That's about it. 

You can’t compare results of receivers when the OC was way over his head and the oline not as good. Let’s not forget Cincinnati should have lost to Baltimore the week before if they don’t fumble. Your act as if Cinci is an unstoppable machine, simply isn’t true and should be proven in the next to games. I’ll be shocked if they win the Super Bowl. You certainly were not saying Burrows was a better Qb after the first 4 games. Are you calling Purdy better than Allen because of getting to the championship game? It’s all in context of who they play with and the system they are operating in. There certainly is personnel issues with the team, coaching problems and philosophies are an even bigger problem.

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Don't lie to yourself. The Bengals have a lot more player talent than the Bills. 

 

They are light years ahead of Buffalo in the WR category. 

 

Obviously, both their lines are by far superior than the Bills. 

 

At this point Burrow is better than Allen. Hate to say it but he looks almost flawless when he plays. The guy knows how to carve an offense, escape pressure, and lead his team to big wins. He's a winner!  He's not as physically gifted but I believe he's a better all around QB. He looks Tom Brady like while Allen looks like Brett Favre. High risk and high reward. 

 

The Bills are better on special teams. That's about it. 

He didn’t look flawless against Baltimore and should have lost, hell  if not for terrible officiating he loses to the Patriots. 

[WyoAZBillfan]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Don't lie to yourself. The Bengals have a lot more player talent than the Bills. 

 

They are light years ahead of Buffalo in the WR category. 

 

Obviously, both their lines are by far superior than the Bills. 

 

At this point Burrow is better than Allen. Hate to say it but he looks almost flawless when he plays. The guy knows how to carve an offense, escape pressure, and lead his team to big wins. He's a winner!  He's not as physically gifted but I believe he's a better all around QB. He looks Tom Brady like while Allen looks like Brett Favre. High risk and high reward. 

 

The Bills are better on special teams. That's about it. 

Curious, how would Allen do with those WRs and even Mixon? Their patchwork O line seemed effective, ours has been very hot and cold on best days. To say Burrow is better might be a stretch, but hard to argue results unless same on both sides I reckon. 

[GETTOTHE50]

Burrow doesn’t have nearly the amount as talent Josh has. Put Josh on that bengals team with roster and coaching staff and they are winning the superbowl for the next 5-7 years 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Burrow doesn’t have nearly the amount as talent Josh has. Put Josh on that bengals team with roster and coaching staff and they are winning the superbowl for the next 5-7 years 

Well … no. 
I’ll still take Josh over Burrow, but raw talent isn’t the deciding factor here. Steve McNair had a lot more “raw talent” than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. So did a lot of other guys who won’t be in the Hall of Fame or anywhere near it. Reading defenses, using good judgement, getting rid of the ball quickly — those skills are real, and even if you want to limit the idea of raw talent to physical attributes, the all-time greats usually have more of the intangibles than they do of physical attributes. 

[GETTOTHE50]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well … no. 
I’ll still take Josh over Burrow, but raw talent isn’t the deciding factor here. Steve McNair had a lot more “raw talent” than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. So did a lot of other guys who won’t be in the Hall of Fame or anywhere near it. Reading defenses, using good judgement, getting rid of the ball quickly — those skills are real, and even if you want to limit the idea of raw talent to physical attributes, the all-time greats usually have more of the intangibles than they do of physical attributes. 

Josh can do all those Manning and Brady, even Burrow can do.

 

You don't think Josh can throw to a wide open Jamar Chase down the middle of the field? 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Don't lie to yourself. The Bengals have a lot more player talent than the Bills. 

 

They are light years ahead of Buffalo in the WR category. 

 

Obviously, both their lines are by far superior than the Bills. 

 

At this point Burrow is better than Allen. Hate to say it but he looks almost flawless when he plays. The guy knows how to carve an offense, escape pressure, and lead his team to big wins. He's a winner!  He's not as physically gifted but I believe he's a better all around QB. He looks Tom Brady like while Allen looks like Brett Favre. High risk and high reward. 

 

The Bills are better on special teams. That's about it. 

How would we know we never got any pressure on burrow

 

He looked plenty human in the game against the ravens

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How would we know we never got any pressure on burrow

 

He looked plenty human in the game against the ravens

He looked like Tom Brady vs the Bills. Wouldn't you agree?

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How would we know we never got any pressure on burrow

 

He looked plenty human in the game against the ravens

The Bills generated some pressure. He escaped the pressure and ran or throw a dart to his pass catchers

[newcam2012]

Look at the Chiefs and how they have remained elite. They concentrated on forming an outstanding oline. Got rid of the best WR in the league for am abundance of picks. Surrounded their franchise QB with mediocre Wrs and Rbs. 

 

Now look at the Bills. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Look at the Chiefs and how they have remained elite. They concentrated on forming an outstanding oline. Got rid of the best WR in the league for am abundance of picks. Surrounded their franchise QB with mediocre Wrs and Rbs. 

 

Now look at the Bills. 

 

With amazing play calling for Chiefs helps tons 

[Franco_92]

24 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Look at the Chiefs and how they have remained elite. They concentrated on forming an outstanding oline. Got rid of the best WR in the league for am abundance of picks. Surrounded their franchise QB with mediocre Wrs and Rbs. 

 

Now look at the Bills. 

It took them 1 summer to fortify that line. 

 

Your move McBeane.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

That's more than fair. As for myself, I would take Allen over Burrow without hesitation. His physical traits are one of a kind. 

 

However, Burrow has a certain it factor that's very difficult to put into words and measure. I think this is where he has the slight edge on Allen. A winner in college and led a team to the Super Bowl with an awful oline. Now likely to appear in another Super Bowl. Watching him last Sunday reminded me of watching Tom Brady. Wouldn't you agree. How he read the defense and with precision picked apart the Bills secondary. I told me son wow he reminds me of Brady in real time. Meanwhile, Allen was missing passes to a wide open Diggs for a TD. Sure he was under pressure but he still has to make that pass! 

 

With better team help on the oline and more weapons I can totally see Allen outshining Burrow. Problem is can and will this happen. Until them Allen's talent and accomplishments will be stunted. 

 

Burrow is certainly up there with Allen and Mahomes.  Personally, I dont like the "this QB is better than that QB" talk.  They are the top QBs imo and thats all that needs to be said.  They are all different in what they do that makes them the best.

 

I would say though... if Burrow kept Chase but replaced his other receivers with McKenzie and 50% catch Davis, what does he look like?  Is Burrow and Cinci just as succesful?

30 minutes ago, arcane said:

It took them 1 summer to fortify that line. 

 

Your move McBeane.

 

McBeane doesnt really have the resources to do so. They concentrated on the wrong side of the ball too much.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Burrow is certainly up there with Allen and Mahomes.  Personally, I dont like the "this QB is better than that QB" talk.  They are the top QBs imo and thats all that needs to be said.  They are all different in what they do that makes them the best.

 

I would say though... if Burrow kept Chase but replaced his other receivers with McKenzie and 50% catch Davis, what does he look like?  Is Burrow and Cinci just as succesful?

 

McBeane doesnt really have the resources to do so. They concentrated on the wrong side of the ball too much.

Burrow has the best set of skill positions in the league. It’s almost not even fair. 

[Boatdrinks]

20 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Frazier's defense held Baltimore to 3 points and were responsible for 7 points due to the Taron Johnson pick 6 at the end of of the 3rd quarter.  The offense scored 10.    the final score was 17-3.  The Ravens were 2nd in scoring that year.  Yet somehow the win was "largely due to Josh Allen"?

The vast majority of the wins, not that particular win. 

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, arcane said:

It took them 1 summer to fortify that line. 

 

Your move McBeane.

They say the replication is the greatest form of flattery
 

We should be replicating with the Chiefs did to build a wall in front of Josh Allen

 

That three-man rush of the Bengals getting to Josh Allen is going to be forever ingrained in my head

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They say the replication is the greatest form of flattery
 

We should be replicating with the Chiefs did to build a wall in front of Josh Allen

 

That three-man rush of the Bengals getting to Josh Allen is going to be forever ingrained in my head

Our OL has been ass since 2017. Our HC could care less about offense other than telling Josh to do it all. This will always be McDermott's legacy. 

[CincyBillsFan]

On 1/26/2023 at 3:44 AM, reddogblitz said:

 

Frazier's defense held Baltimore to 3 points and were responsible for 7 points due to the Taron Johnson pick 6 at the end of of the 3rd quarter.  The offense scored 10.    the final score was 17-3.  The Ravens were 2nd in scoring that year.  Yet somehow the win was "largely due to Josh Allen"?

There is no doubt then when it comes to defending Jackson & the Ravens Frazier does a great job. Unfortunately for the Bills the Ravens are not particularly relevant in the AFC with the Chiefs & Bengals being the obstacle to the Bills advancing to a SB. 

 

So Frazier gets an A for defensing a weird, unique offensive scheme by a marginal playoff level team while being utterly unable to slow down the more conventional high powered offenses of the elite AFC contenders.  And with the Chargers & Jags likley joining the ranks of KC & Cincy Frazier's D is going to become an even bigger liability

 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Our OL has been ass since 2017. Our HC could care less about offense other than telling Josh to do it all. This will always be McDermott's legacy. 

 

We want to turn Josh into Andrew Luck? This is how we turn Josh into Andrew Luck. 

[Sestak4ever]

It will be interesting to see how KC’s defensive line does against the patch work offensive line of the Bengals. That will help with our assessment of how we did.

[Scott7975]

43 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

It will be interesting to see how KC’s defensive line does against the patch work offensive line of the Bengals. That will help with our assessment of how we did.

I thought I heard Cinci was getting their starters back this week. Either way Chris Jones is gonna make some plays 

[Sestak4ever]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I thought I heard Cinci was getting their starters back this week. Either way Chris Jones is gonna make some plays 

Capps and Williams both ruled out

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

They say the replication is the greatest form of flattery
 

We should be replicating with the Chiefs did to build a wall in front of Josh Allen

 

That three-man rush of the Bengals getting to Josh Allen is going to be forever ingrained in my head

 

OL

 

DL

 

Or we just end up with more Ls

[Nextmanup]

20 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Burrow is certainly up there with Allen and Mahomes.  Personally, I dont like the "this QB is better than that QB" talk.  They are the top QBs imo and thats all that needs to be said.  They are all different in what they do that makes them the best.

I agree! And further more, who cares if your QB is #1, or #3?

 

As long as he is in that top tier elite group, that's good enough.

 

Any of those guys can win against anyone, and they can all win multiple Super Bowls.

 

That's good enough!  What is there to argue about?

 

 

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

5 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

We want to turn Josh into Andrew Luck? This is how we turn Josh into Andrew Luck. 

Exactly. They want to talk josh into running less then why don't they protect him more. Mitch Morse and tua should be sharing injury notes. Brown is Swiss cheese and Dawkins is as inconsistent as....well our offensive game plans. Everyone else is as easy to replace as is was to not even mention them. Idk I get in a bad mood thinking about all this. Maybe it's because of the loss. Maybe it's because we'll all saw it coming to this. 
 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Goin Breakdown

[buffblue]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

There is no doubt then when it comes to defending Jackson & the Ravens Frazier does a great job. Unfortunately for the Bills the Ravens are not particularly relevant in the AFC with the Chiefs & Bengals being the obstacle to the Bills advancing to a SB. 

 

So Frazier gets an A for defensing a weird, unique offensive scheme by a marginal playoff level team while being utterly unable to slow down the more conventional high powered offenses of the elite AFC contenders.  And with the Chargers & Jags likley joining the ranks of KC & Cincy Frazier's D is going to become an even bigger liability

 

 

Exactly right about the Ravens. Defending a quarterback who can't throw and never has any decent receivers anyway isn't exactly a major accomplishment

[reddogblitz]

11 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

There is no doubt then when it comes to defending Jackson & the Ravens Frazier does a great job. Unfortunately for the Bills the Ravens are not particularly relevant in the AFC with the Chiefs & Bengals being the obstacle to the Bills advancing to a SB. 

 

So Frazier gets an A for defensing a weird, unique offensive scheme by a marginal playoff level team while being utterly unable to slow down the more conventional high powered offenses of the elite AFC contenders.  And with the Chargers & Jags likley joining the ranks of KC & Cincy Frazier's D is going to become an even bigger liability

 

 

 

Are you sure about this?  They dang near beat the mighty Bengals on the road with a backup QB who is not very good.  Had he not dumbly tried to put the football over the goal line and instead put his head down and let the fat guys push him in like he was supposed they very well might have won that game.  Tye mighty Bengals squirreled out with a gift 97 yard TD.

[Mark Vader]

Hey Mods!

 

Does this thread still need to be pinned?

[Bermuda Triangle]

18 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Are you sure about this?  They dang near beat the mighty Bengals on the road with a backup QB who is not very good.  Had he not dumbly tried to put the football over the goal line and instead put his head down and let the fat guys push him in like he was supposed they very well might have won that game.  Tye mighty Bengals squirreled out with a gift 97 yard TD.

The mighty Bengals offense put up 17 points and <250 yards against BAL in the entire game, basically what they did in the 1st half against Frazier's fraud defense last week.

[reddogblitz]

10 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

The mighty Bengals offense put up 17 points and <250 yards against BAL in the entire game, basically what they did in the 1st half against Frazier's fraud defense last week.

 

So maybe the Ravens are not that far behind the mighty Bengals which was my point.

[Solomon Grundy]

16 hours ago, Sestak4ever said:

It will be interesting to see how KC’s defensive line does against the patch work offensive line of the Bengals. That will help with our assessment of how we did.

IMO, this will be the tale of the tape!! Also how aggressive will KC DBs play against Cincy WRs. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

5 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

IMO, this will be the tale of the tape!! Also how aggressive will KC DBs play against Cincy WRs. 

 

I watched Cincy's game winning drive vs KC from the regular season.

 

So long as KC doesn't let them convert a 3rd and 21, and Cincy doesn't get 6 cracks at the end zone from inside the 5, they should be ok. 

[John from Riverside]

Eli Apple is a prick
But we need a grow a thicker skin next year beat that ass for what he’s talking about today

[UKBillFan]

Regarding the QB argument, Josh is good enough to win the Superbowl. However, whilst he doesn't get a lot of help from elsewhere, I also think he's overly careless with the ball at times, more so than other elite QBs. But do I think the likes of Mahomes, Burrow or Hurts would do any better with this offense? No.

[Turk71]

On 1/26/2023 at 4:01 PM, arcane said:

It took them 1 summer to fortify that line. 

 

Your move McBeane.

 

On 1/26/2023 at 4:29 PM, Scott7975 said:

McBeane doesnt really have the resources to do so. They concentrated on the wrong side of the ball too much.

The Chiefs oline rebuild was complete when they drafted Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round of the draft 2 years ago, he has been the best center in the league since entering imo. They got him the very pick after the Bills took Basham.

 So not only did the Bills pass on an elite talent at a position of great need, they handed him to their main rival who really needed him to complete their line. An incredible rebuild in one offseason with Beane handing them the crown jewel.  I turned the draft off after that, I was so disgusted and so convinced that Humphrey was going to be really good. I couldnt believe he fell to the Bills and then i couldnt believe they passed on him for another DE.

Two years later and the Bills line is still terrible.

Cmon. Get Better Beane

[Bermuda Triangle]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:18 PM, reddogblitz said:

 

So maybe the Ravens are not that far behind the mighty Bengals which was my point.

Our defense & OL make the Bengals look better than they are.

[jahnyc]

I think we need to be realistic here.  Cinci's d-line are as a group superior to our d-line with Reader, Hubbard and Hendrickson, their WRs have more top end talent and are deeper in quality than our group, and their reconstituted o-line provided better protection to Burrows than did our o-line for Josh during the regular season and playoffs.  At each of these position groups, Cinci has more than what we have, and it showed last weekend, even with their injuries on the o-line.  Combine this with creative play calling on offense with a QB who gets the ball out quickly and a defense lead by a coordinator with the ability to come up with effective game plans, and you have a recipe for success against the Bills.

 

Granted, I recall that the Bills were very interested in and pursued Reader, but he chose the Bengals and we were missing Von, which I don't think would have changed the overall results.

 

As has been noted, there is a lot of work to do to "catch-up" to the Bengals.  I could not imagine at the start of the season that this is what I would be writing now, but this is where we are.  Beane has much work ahead of him, and not much in the way of resources or ability to change the coaching staff to get it done.  This will be interesting because the status quo will not be acceptable if the Bills want to make progress and not regress.

[Sisyphean Bills]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:43 AM, LABILLBACKER said:

Our OL has been ass since 2017. Our HC could care less about offense other than telling Josh to do it all. This will always be McDermott's legacy. 

This reminds me a bit of the Seahawks the last few years. They let Russell Wilson run for his life and platoons of RBs get carted off the field behind an abysmal OL for several years. Then they trade away Wilson and his contract and immediately invest in ... the OL. 🙃

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sisyphean Bills

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 hours ago, Turk71 said:

 

The Chiefs oline rebuild was complete when they drafted Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round of the draft 2 years ago, he has been the best center in the league since entering imo. They got him the very pick after the Bills took Basham.

 So not only did the Bills pass on an elite talent at a position of great need, they handed him to their main rival who really needed him to complete their line. An incredible rebuild in one offseason with Beane handing them the crown jewel.  I turned the draft off after that, I was so disgusted and so convinced that Humphrey was going to be really good. I couldnt believe he fell to the Bills and then i couldnt believe they passed on him for another DE.

Two years later and the Bills line is still terrible.

Cmon. Get Better Beane

Asking beane to be competent with the OL is a bit much, don't you think? There's a average DT out there needing a job