Week 18: Pats at Bills, Sunday 1/8 1pm

[Dan]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Speaking just for myself, I'll say this:

I don't really care about this Sunday's game. I'm finding it really difficult to resume caring about football at this moment.

I know that's not everyone's experience, and I know that in times of hardship, it's helpful for many to turn to sports and entertainment as a sort of escape. That's obviously fine and normal. I also know that we all invest a lot of time and energy and emotion into following the Bills, and it's hard for many to just "flip the switch".

I don't begrudge anyone whatsoever for wanting to get on with the season and get back to cheering on our favorite team. Hell, I want to do that myself. Or at least I should say, I want to WANT to do that. But in reality, I just can't get there mentally right now. I can't put on my "fan hat" just yet and root for Tremaine Edmunds or Jordan Poyer to go out and lay a crushing hit on a Patriots player. I can't, in all good conscience, get excited about the idea of these 20-something kids swallowing their trauma, strapping on a helmet, and going back into the arena to play gladiator, 6 days after watching their brother's heart stop on the field.

Maybe my feelings will change if and when news comes out that Damar Hamlin is going to be okay. But right now, in this moment, it's hard to get back to wanting to watch this. That's just how I feel. I'm not judging anyone else for feeling differently. This is just where I'm at.

It sucks, and it hurts, and it's disappointing, but this is where I'm at.

We all get through life’s hardships in our own way and on our own time.   I hope we can all love the game like we have, but i agree and understand that its going to take time.  I, FWIW, appreciate your thoughts. 
 

Along this line, if they do play this weekend, and Tremaine misses a tackle or Dane gives up a touchdown...   or doesn’t even play.  I really hope people understand and don’t let emotion get in the way say things they shouldn’t. 

[Captain Caveman]

52 minutes ago, Process said:

 

And I absolutely would rest starters and let the pats win because getting them in round 1 of the playoffs is a dream matchup.

If we lose we are likely the 3 seed (unless Cinci also loses) in which case we will likely face Baltimore I think.  If we win we most likely end up as 2 seed and the would play whoever is 7 (Miami or Pittsburgh I'd guess?)

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, Airseven said:

They’re professionals. Their job is to play football. The game on Monday was suspended appropriately. Now move forward while a teammate receives high class medical care.

 

The people facing real trauma is Hamlin’s family. Not fans. Not media. The well-being of his teammates continues to be addressed in reasonable fashion.

I'm not really sure what makes you the arbiter of who is and isn't facing trauma right now.

I noticed you mentioned that the ones suffering "real" trauma are Hamlin's family, but not his teammates. I'm not sure if you saw the faces of Stefon Diggs, of Tre'Davious White, of Josh Allen on Monday night. But trauma was written all over them.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Logic

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

41 minutes ago, wolfpack78 said:

I ran the ESPN playoff simulator for this scenario and the Bengals hold the tie breaker over us and would be the #2.  Not sure what the tie breaker is that puts it in their favor because we would have same overall/conference/divisions records in this scenario.  Maybe winning % against common opponents?

 

 Record against common opponents would be the same as well. Both going 8-3. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[ngbills]

This dont play another game this season talk is crazy. Monday was awful. It was traumatizing. Yes, it was different than what we have seen before. But that does not make it worse than seeing your teammate paralyzed for life, the death of a family member, and other tragic events. It is too early to tell, but things are looking positive for Damar and while everyone is different there are enough stories out there of people in similar situations that have made full recoveries. Throwing in the towel on the season would only make a tragic event worse for everyone. 

[KHAN]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I'm not really sure what makes you the arbiter of who is and isn't facing trauma right now.

I noticed you mentioned that the ones suffering "real" trauma are Hamlin's family, but not his teammates. I'm not sure if you saw the faces of Stefon Diggs, of Tre'Davious White, of Josh Allen on Monday night. But trauma was written all over them.

Now that we're in to day three of this, I've noticed more unsympathetic, self serving posts.

 

I suppose it's inevitable. After the initial shock passes, some people think only how it effects them.

[MasterStrategist]

I'm not trying to assume anything or predict, but will support whatever the coaches/staff/players need to do in order to care for their well-being, and have time to focus on themselves and Damar.

 

That said, everyone processes traumatic situations differently.  Personally, talking thru emotions and thoughts with teammates/staff would help me.  Then getting my mind "busy" (back to work) and refocused, as more updates come out on Damar is important so I wouldn't let negativity creep in.  Again, that's just me and returning to norm as quick as possible (after having a chance to share feelings/process everything) is my coping mechanism.  All things change if the unspoken occurs, just positive thoughts/prayers that encouraging updates on Damar come out in the next day or so.

 

I also have complete trust/faith in Beane and Coach, to help guide and lead the team thru this difficult week(s).  Family first, and I'm sure they will give every resource to helping the staff/players right now.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

I'm not trying to assume anything or predict, but will support whatever the coaches/staff/players need to do in order to care for their well-being, and have time to focus on themselves and Damar.

 

That said, everyone processes traumatic situations differently.  Personally, talking thru emotions and thoughts with teammates/staff would help me.  Then getting my mind "busy" (back to work) and refocused, as more updates come out on Damar is important so I wouldn't let negativity creep in.  Again, that's just me and returning to norm as quick as possible (after having a chance to share feelings/process everything) is my coping mechanism.  All things change if the unspoken occurs, just positive thoughts/prayers that encouraging updates on Damar come out in the next day or so.

 

I also have complete trust/faith in Beane and Coach, to help guide and lead the team thru this difficult week(s).  Family first, and I'm sure they will give every resource to helping the staff/players right now.

 

Would have to think the entire team will be in meetings with open dialogue from anyone who wishes to speak.

As Hamlin continues to heal (we pray), the team having gone through this together will create a bond unlikely any other in the league.

If I was a fan of another team, I would not want to face the Bills in the playoffs 

 

[BillsFanSD]

3 minutes ago, KHAN said:

Now that we're in to day three of this, I've noticed more unsympathetic, self serving posts.

 

I suppose it's inevitable. After the initial shock passes, some people think only how it effects them.

On the contrary, lots of us have had an opportunity to reflect on our own experiences and how we processed them, and we remembered that the healthiest way to move forward from a tragic event is to get on with it.  That's not unsympathetic.  It's just a different flavor of advice.  More dad, less mom.

[colin]

I can see a scenario where the team rallies around this tragedy and uses that to fuel a great playoff run, but all the other injury issues on D might make that a lot harder than it looked like it would be early in the year.  If that happens, I think it is mostly manifested by the players, especially on D as that is where Hamlin played and D is a more emotional side.

 

This Sunday I think comes down to coaching.  there still is a possibility that the bills get the 1 seed, so the team does have something to play for.  if the team comes out and plays focused football (which means they beat up the pats as we are a much better team) then you have to give mcd dorsey and frazer and co a real vote of confidence, because that would be a huge accomplishment.

[Airseven]

7 minutes ago, KHAN said:

Now that we're in to day three of this, I've noticed more unsympathetic, self serving posts.

 

I suppose it's inevitable. After the initial shock passes, some people think only how it effects them.

Exactly. It’s shock in the moment and concern thereafter. It’s traumatic for those who must remain directly involved and have something to lose, particularly a loved one.

 

Concern for the player shouldn’t waver. 

[Logic]

11 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

On the contrary, lots of us have had an opportunity to reflect on our own experiences and how we processed them, and we remembered that the healthiest way to move forward from a tragic event is to get on with it.  That's not unsympathetic.  It's just a different flavor of advice.  More dad, less mom.

The best (not necessarily healthiest) way FOR YOU to move forward from a tragic event is to "get on with it". The fact that you think that there's only one correct and healthy way to move forward from trauma belies a certain arrogance and small mindedness.

As to the "more dad, less mom" comment...not sure where to even begin with that one. Essentially, you're saying that the "masculine" thing to do is to just move on. Processing of trauma be damned, life goes on, and the manly thing to do is just move forward. Likewise, to work through grief at its own pace or in any other kind of way is a "girly" way to deal with things.

In response I would simply say:

1.) There is no universal, one-size-fits-all way to deal with trauma and grief

2.) YOUR way is not better or more healthy than anyone else's way

3.) There is nothing inherently masculine, "manly", or universally correct about choosing to just put one's head down and push forward rather than processing trauma in other ways. The notion of stoicism being the only way to deal with grief is antiquated and, frankly, toxic.

 

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Trauma or just immediate shock and sadness? 
 

No idea how they’ll respond or how each individual on the team processes everything but it’s all way too early and an emotional reaction to suggest they are all “traumatized” from what happened Monday. 

Trauma: A deeply distressing or disturbing experience.

Traumatized: Subject to lasting shock as a result of an emotionally disturbing experience or physical injury.

I would suggest that this event certainly qualifies as the former, and in the cases of some players, as the latter as well.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Logic

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Just now, Logic said:

The best (not necessarily healthiest) way FOR YOU to move forward from a tragic event is to "get on with it". The fact that you think that there's only one correct and healthy way to move forward from trauma belies a certain arrogance and small mindedness.

As to the "more dad, less mom" comment...not sure where to even begin with that one. Essentially, you're saying that the "masculine" thing to do is to just move on. Processing of trauma be damned, life goes on, and the manly thing to do is just move forward. Likewise, to work through grief at its own pace or in any other kind of way is a "girly" way to deal with things.

In response I would simply say:

1.) There is no universal, one-size-fits-all way to deal with trauma and grief

2.) YOUR way is not better or more healthy than anyone else's way

3.) There is nothing inherently masculine, "manly", or universally correct about choosing to just put one's head down and push forward rather than processing trauma in other ways. The notion of stoicism being the only way to deal with grief is antiquated and, frankly, toxic.

Reacted, but want to also type out “thank you” especially on point 3 because you nailed it. Keeping things bottled up, pretending everything is fine, and moving forward without processing (while maybe it works for some), imho usually manifests in bigger issues down the road whether they be emotional, mental, physical, or a combination. 

[TheWei44]

22 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I'm not trying to assume anything or predict, but will support whatever the coaches/staff/players need to do in order to care for their well-being, and have time to focus on themselves and Damar.

 

That said, everyone processes traumatic situations differently.  Personally, talking thru emotions and thoughts with teammates/staff would help me.  Then getting my mind "busy" (back to work) and refocused, as more updates come out on Damar is important so I wouldn't let negativity creep in.  Again, that's just me and returning to norm as quick as possible (after having a chance to share feelings/process everything) is my coping mechanism.  All things change if the unspoken occurs, just positive thoughts/prayers that encouraging updates on Damar come out in the next day or so.

 

I also have complete trust/faith in Beane and Coach, to help guide and lead the team thru this difficult week(s).  Family first, and I'm sure they will give every resource to helping the staff/players right now.

Extremely well articulated - Completely agree!

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

37 minutes ago, KHAN said:

Was Kevin Everett in a medically induced coma on Wed. following the game?

 

SMH

I think the stressor with Everett was more "Is our brother going to be paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of his life" by two days after the game. (thank God he was not). 

Different situations of course but both very distressing. 

[BillsFanSD]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

The best (not necessarily healthiest) way FOR YOU to move forward from a tragic event is to "get on with it". The fact that you think that there's only one correct and healthy way to move forward from trauma belies a certain arrogance and small mindedness.

No, up until about five minutes ago, this was universally viewed as the healthiest course of action.  We can draw on example after example from the sports world -- Kevin Everett, Sean Taylor, Brett Favre's dad, Christian Ericksen, etc.  But more immediately, I'm sure I'm not the only person old enough to have dealt with stuff like this myself and to have seen my friends and coworkers deal with issues much worse than this one.  Nobody ever counsels a friend to shut down -- we do the opposite, literally always.  That doesn't mean you have to be totally stoic and stone-faced about it.  But it does mean that you don't lock yourself in a room and mope around either.  Friends tell friends not to do that.    

[JerseyBills]

Who starts at FS?

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BillsFanSD said:

No, up until about five minutes ago, this was universally viewed as the healthiest course of action.  We can draw on example after example from the sports world -- Kevin Everett, Sean Taylor, Brett Favre's dad, Christian Ericksen, etc.  But more immediately, I'm sure I'm not the only person old enough to have dealt with stuff like this myself and to have seen my friends and coworkers deal with issues much worse than this one.  Nobody ever counsels a friend to shut down -- we do the opposite, literally always.  That doesn't mean you have to be totally stoic and stone-faced about it.  But it does mean that you don't lock yourself in a room and mope around either.  Friends tell friends not to do that.    

I am somewhat sympathetic to your views and generally like your posts. However, just as a matter of lifelong observation, when Mom and Dad disagree, the fella almost always loses.

[Mango]

1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said:

Maybe, but this has happened before.  It's not unprecedented.  It's not even unprecedented with the Buffalo Bills (Kevin Everett).  It really is time to get on with it.  

 

It is certainly unprecedented in the NFL. 

Damar Hamlin died on the field, and laid there dead for 9 minutes. That is an important distinction to make. 
 

I don't mean to diminish KE's journey or injury. It certainly was and is a major situation. I am not arguing which is worse, rather this is just something totally different. 

This is a better conversation for another thread, but I thought that was important. I will bow out of derailing the talk about the Pats game. 

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

4 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Who starts at FS?

I hope it's Marlowe. Might be J. Johnson. 

[Mark Vader]

1 minute ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I hope it's Marlowe. Might be J. Johnson. 

Dean Marlowe appears to be the ideal choice.

[balln]

Emotionally - don’t really care about the game 

 

heart - id want them to either try and win if it means they still have 1 seed. I think what will happen is they will use win %. If chiefs lose are we not the 1 seed? If 1 seed isn’t in play then I just say play back ups and rest up for a run 

 

brain - reality is - I don’t think they’re winning Super Bowl or even making it to championship game if not 1 seed. Even thought the same after Von out for year . They’re not playing their best football. Specifically Allen as a passer. It looks too hard on offense. I think our D is worse than last year. We can’t immediately win consistently on DL for pass rush. Our championship window level play in our back 4 has passed 

 

And I don’t trust our coaches in game. Sorry 13 seconds. What was that timeout on offense with 2 seconds left on playclock. In 10 mins in the first q? Atrocious 

 

overall I think the season has been a nightmare. Injury to your qb / elbow , wr3, Von Miller and Hyde out for year , Hamlin and just the way season is going 

 

rest up / come back next year 

[BearNorth]

1 minute ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I hope it's Marlowe. Might be J. Johnson. 

Just looked at the available Free Agent safeties, and Jason McCourty is the only name I even remotely recognize.  Cupboard is pretty bare.

[NickelCity]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

Dean Marlowe appears to be the ideal choice.

 

I agree, but given the run of inactive designations, I'm skeptical they'll make it. 

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

No, up until about five minutes ago, this was universally viewed as the healthiest course of action.  We can draw on example after example from the sports world -- Kevin Everett, Sean Taylor, Brett Favre's dad, Christian Ericksen, etc.  But more immediately, I'm sure I'm not the only person old enough to have dealt with stuff like this myself and to have seen my friends and coworkers deal with issues much worse than this one.  Nobody ever counsels a friend to shut down -- we do the opposite, literally always.  That doesn't mean you have to be totally stoic and stone-faced about it.  But it does mean that you don't lock yourself in a room and mope around either.  Friends tell friends not to do that.    

Thanks for the response.

I'll just say that "counseling a friend to shut down" or "lock[ing] yourself in a room and mop[ing] around" are not the same as "encouraging people to take the proper time and measures to process their grief".

Take me, for instance. I mentioned that I'm having trouble getting "up" for the game. That doesn't mean that if I choose not to watch the game, I'm going to sit in the darkness and mope. I'll likely take a walk around the neighborhood, read a book, have lunch with my wife, play some guitar.

"Taking some time or changing my routine in order process difficult feelings" is not the same as "shutting down" or "moping". 

 

 

[PaattMaann]

3 minutes ago, balln said:

Emotionally - don’t really care about the game 

 

heart - id want them to either try and win if it means they still have 1 seed. I think what will happen is they will use win %. If chiefs lose are we not the 1 seed? If 1 seed isn’t in play then I just say play back ups and rest up for a run 

 

brain - reality is - I don’t think they’re winning Super Bowl or even making it to championship game if not 1 seed. Even thought the same after Von out for year . They’re not playing their best football. Specifically Allen as a passer. It looks too hard on offense. I think our D is worse than last year. We can’t immediately win consistently on DL for pass rush. Our championship window level play in our back 4 has passed 

 

And I don’t trust our coaches in game. Sorry 13 seconds. What was that timeout on offense with 2 seconds left on playclock. In 10 mins in the first q? Atrocious 

 

overall I think the season has been a nightmare. Injury to your qb / elbow , wr3, Von Miller and Hyde out for year , Hamlin and just the way season is going 

 

rest up / come back next year 

 

literally all the advanced stats disagree with you lol 

 

The season has been a nightmare and we are STILL the #1 seed (or at worst, division champs at 13-3/12-4 and hosting a playoff game). I'd say our chances at a super bowl are better than most. 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

literally all the advanced stats disagree with you lol 

 

The season has been a nightmare and we are STILL the #1 seed (or at worst, division champs at 13-3/12-4 and hosting a playoff game). I'd say our chances at a super bowl are better than most. 

From the limited time game play. Cincy was going to blow our doors off .

 

and now - we’ll have a 3rd string fs. Who knows about our cb3/LB3 starter 

Edited January 4, 2023 by balln

[teef]

Just now, balln said:

From the limited time game play. Cincy was going to blow our doors off .

they didn't even complete 3 series.  how anyone can say this reasonably is shocking to me.

[balln]

Just now, teef said:

they didn't even complete 3 series.  how anyone can say this reasonably is shocking to me.

How can anyone obviously say it wouldn’t happen is just as shocking 

[teef]

10 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

literally all the advanced stats disagree with you lol 

 

The season has been a nightmare and we are STILL the #1 seed (or at worst, division champs at 13-3/12-4 and hosting a playoff game). I'd say our chances at a super bowl are better than most. 

yeah...it's hard to have won 12 games so far and call this season a "nightmare", (at least until monday).  the season has been imperfect, but some are acting like this team didn't make the playoffs.

Edited January 4, 2023 by teef

[PaattMaann]

Just now, balln said:

From the limited time game play. Cincy was going to blow our doors off .

 

Kinda like the Bears were gonna the week before when they scored on their first drive and were beating us 10-6 at half? Get outta here. Our defense is notorious for giving up a TD and yards early and adjusting and clamping down. Could this have been different? MAYBE. Could this have been the same as we've seen all season? I'd bet on that. There is a reason they play 4 quarters of football. 

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, balln said:

From the limited time game play. Cincy was going to blow our doors off .

 

And as we all know, Cincinnati always plays in the second half of games just as well as they play in the first half, with no recent examples to the contrary.

[teef]

Just now, balln said:

How can anyone obviously say it wouldn’t happen is just as shocking 

because a lot happens in a game.  what if the bills held the cincy to 3, and the bills score on the next drive.  even if cincy scored, what if buffalo went on the next drive to score a td?  it's a 4 point game early on.  see how that works?

[balln]

Just now, teef said:

yeah...it's hard to have won 12 games so far and call this season a "nightmare", (at least until moments).  the season has been imperfect, but some are acting like this team didn't make the playoffs.

Prior to the season and after kc - I’m in the mindset Super Bowl or bust. 
 

giants are a playoff team but we alll know they have no chance 

1 minute ago, PaattMaann said:

 

Kinda like the Bears were gonna the week before when they scored on their first drive and were beating us 10-6 at half? Get outta here. Our defense is notorious for giving up a TD and yards early and adjusting and clamping down. Could this have been different? MAYBE. Could this have been the same as we've seen all season? I'd bet on that. There is a reason they play 4 quarters of football. 

No. I’d bet on joe burrow and their off keep going vs fields and bears off 

2 minutes ago, teef said:

because a lot happens in a game.  what if the bills held the cincy to 3, and the bills score on the next drive.  even if cincy scored, what if buffalo went on the next drive to score a td?  it's a 4 point game early on.  see how that works?

Sure of course. But I’d bet on the bengals smoking them once we piled up injuries. Taron and even Allen’s ankle 

[teef]

1 minute ago, balln said:

Prior to the season and after kc - I’m in the mindset Super Bowl or bust. 
 

giants are a playoff team but we alll know they have no chance 

so?  every year a team is picked to win the sb.  sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.  it takes a lot to win the big game, and as far as i know, the playoffs haven't even started yet.  did the giants have a chance the year they beat the undefeated pats?  nope, and yet here we are.  the playoffs are an entirely different season.  you just have to let it play out, but to call this season a "nightmare" is just as unreasonable as knowing the outcome of a game after 2.5 series.  

[PaattMaann]

1 minute ago, balln said:

Prior to the season and after kc - I’m in the mindset Super Bowl or bust. 
 

giants are a playoff team but we alll know they have no chance 

No. I’d bet on joe burrow and their off keep going vs fields and bears off 

 

Good for you. Your opinion, and mine, mean nothing. There was no result of the game so we have literally no idea what would have happened. That is my only point to your silly post. "cincy was going to blow our doors off". We got beat by more than one score exactly once in two seasons lol. Have a good day and Go Bills! 

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, KHAN said:

Was Kevin Everett in a medically induced coma on Wed. following the game?

 

SMH

No, and he did not die on the field.  As bad as it was, it was not as bad as this.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Seriously, what kind of a person would say "If something bad happens to me, I want everybody else to shut their lives down too?"  Nobody ever says that.  Spouses don't want their surviving spouse to live the rest of their life in a state of mourning after they pass.  Why on earth would this situation be any different?  

 

People are making this out to be harder than it is.  Damar Hamlin is fighting for his life in a hospital.  For the rest of us, our life is still in front of us, and it's still ending one day at a time just like it was before.  Let's get on with it.   

The quip “too soon” may apply here. It’s a laugh line when we talk about something that happened a long time ago, but it is a real thing. Everyone agrees that reconvening on Tuesday night to finish the game wasn’t reasonable. 
Yes, life will go on, and the Bills will go on. But we’re talking about whether it’s reasonable to require Hamlin’s teammates to return to business as usual: practice during the week, media availability, game 6 days later, etc, etc. And for the game itself: the kind of celebratory/party atmosphere: tailgates, drinking, all that … it just isn’t right yet. 
I don’t mean to say we shouldn’t play on Sunday, but I don’t really know how I (much less the team) feels about that. 

[Negan]

9 minutes ago, balln said:

From the limited time game play. Cincy was going to blow our doors off .

 

and now - we’ll have a 3rd string fs. Who knows about our cb3/LB3 starter 

He could have thrown a pick 6 the next play or a holding call anything.

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

And for the game itself: the kind of celebratory/party atmosphere: tailgates, drinking, all that … it just isn’t right yet. 

yeah… I’m likely not attending the Pats game but if I was, it would feel downright weird tailgating for it , IMO.