Under Used Weapons in Bills Offense

[T master]

This week is probably to this point a game that is as close to must win than any other the Bills have had this season given what it holds in the out come column . More than likely as we know if the Bills win they will get the #1 over all pick for home field & the team to beat in the AFC & we could finally get teams at home .

 

Also to this point of the season there has been some weapons that josh has at his disposal that haven't been over utilized this year TE's being one of them both Knox & Q have been used but not a lot in the passing game which could take the Bengals by surprise if they go that direction then if they throw in Gilliam being a hybrid TE/FB those 3 could be a huge surprise this game .

 

Q has shown he has really good hands the guy has made some really good catches this season at times the team really needed him & in the beginning of the season Gilliam made a few nice catches too then of course there is Knox he is just one more weapon they will have to plan for on top of the ones that get utilized most of the time .

 

Then throw in some Beasely in the soft spots underneath & i think Josh has all he needs to defeat the Bengals Monday night I just hope Dorsey incorporates more of those not used much to this point as a surprise tactic of attack this game .

 

Then if he throws in a Schnowman or a O lineman TD would be just the icing on the AFC divisional cake !! GO BILLS !!! 

Edited January 1, 2023 by T master

[MPT]

It definitely has looked like they're keeping some things close to the vest until playoff time. The lack of usage of players who have delivered results in limited opportunities has been head scratching. They also haven't used many creative plays like the examples you're talking about.

 

This game is as close to playoff importance as a regular season game gets (other than a win-and-get-in scenario). It will be interesting to see if they start showing some new wrinkles. 

 

Either that or Dorsey is actually just vanilla or die.

[Solomon Grundy]

I wouldn't mind seeing Morris and Knox on field together. Morris has shown to have some of the better hands on the team. 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I think Gilliam has been underutilized as a receiver. I would like to see him used as a target in the flat on play action more often. He has even shown an ability to get open up the seam on occasion.

[CoudyBills]

I wouldn't mind seeing them throw to Diggs 10 times.

[NewEra]

Good post-  T Master-  

 

Are we keeping things close to the vest?  - are we saving things for the playoffs?   Are we saving Shakir and Morris for win or go home?  Have we been keeping Cook under wraps?  Why has the play calling been so vanilla?  So the league can’t figure out how to stop it?  

Those are the questions every Bills fan would like to know.  
 

I’ve been hoping that we’d have shakir more involved by now, but it’s looking like he’s just a short armed blocker atm,  

 

Morris can be a matchup problem.  His release on that TD vs Miami was awesome. Has anyone watched how he’s doing as a blocker?  I know that wasn’t his forte but I’m hoping he can improve as he gets stronger

 

Cook could be the game changing type back everyone has been looking for.  5.7 ypc…..and we were all hyped about his receiving skills.  If we can incorporate him more in the passing game with success….  That could be all she wrote for the rest of the league.  

[Mr. WEO]

Definitely need more O-lineman TDs.  
 

Definitely need to holster massive secret weapons like Gilliam, Morris, Shakir for the playoffs.  

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

Definitely need more O-lineman TDs.  
 

Definitely need to holster massive secret weapons like Gilliam, Morris, Shakir for the playoffs.  

Definitely .

[Charles Romes]

Gilliam has good hands and is a free 8 yards every play. 

[3rdand12]

Honestly I have become hopeful Dorsey is smarter than I originally thought.
 And keeping enough cards up his sleeve to make the run when it really matters.
 Gilliam and Morris have hardly been utilized as a threat and yet seem to get open often enough if Josh was looking.
 Cook is likely a matter of play design for his skill set, and I suggest Hines might have a role.
Shakir might be the sleeper.

 No one seem to think he is going to make a play. defenses and Bills fans alike lol.
 Expect Davis to be better utilized if Dorsey has any sense about his route trees

 I would like to see Frazier do some magic too when the time comes. Hopefully by now his young corners and Hamlin can better see the field and execute McFraziers disguised looks that get us turnovers

[chris heff]

Josh Allen

[Mango]

4 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think Gilliam has been underutilized as a receiver. I would like to see him used as a target in the flat on play action more often. He has even shown an ability to get open up the seam on occasion.

The Bills could line up in a heavy set and have a real chance of throwing the ball. Especially if Cook is the RB. 

[Putin]

6 hours ago, T master said:

This week is probably to this point a game that is as close to must win than any other the Bills have had this season given what it holds in the out come column . More than likely as we know if the Bills win they will get the #1 over all pick for home field & the team to beat in the AFC & we could finally get teams at home .

 

Also to this point of the season there has been some weapons that josh has at his disposal that haven't been over utilized this year TE's being one of them both Knox & Q have been used but not a lot in the passing game which could take the Bengals by surprise if they go that direction then if they throw in Gilliam being a hybrid TE/FB those 3 could be a huge surprise this game .

 

Q has shown he has really good hands the guy has made some really good catches this season at times the team really needed him & in the beginning of the season Gilliam made a few nice catches too then of course there is Knox he is just one more weapon they will have to plan for on top of the ones that get utilized most of the time .

 

Then throw in some Beasely in the soft spots underneath & i think Josh has all he needs to defeat the Bengals Monday night I just hope Dorsey incorporates more of those not used much to this point as a surprise tactic of attack this game .

 

Then if he throws in a Schnowman or a O lineman TD would be just the icing on the AFC divisional cake !! GO BILLS !!! 

Thats because you sent most of the weapons to Ukraine !!! 
Go Bills !!! 

[LABILLBACKER]

I don't care as much about Morris or Gilliam as offensive weapons.  But I'd sure like to see Hines and Shakir more involved. 

[Mango]

I’m largely frustrated with not getting more pass catchers the ball. We move guys around a lot. We send Knox out on routes as much as any TE in the league. But we just throw the same 4 guys the ball. 
 

Some of that is Dorsey. Some Allen. 

[HamSandwhich]

Does anyone think Cook could be the lead back in carries tomorrow?  He can stretch the field and the teeth of their D line is on the inside.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Would not mind seeing Hines involved more in a variety of ways. This game to me seems ripe for the HBs to have success on the ground and through the air. He has that versatility and has not been used a ton yet. 
 

Generally I think this offense can operate with 2 of its 3 HBs on the field most of the time employing basically a triple RPO threat. Allen’s dual-threat-freakness and Singletary/Cook/Hines should be able to keep opening things up for the WRs and Knox. 

[BullBuchanan]

Hines and Shakir need to be more involved going forward. Hones in particular is deadly with the ball in his hands, and we're not succeeding in enabling that thus far. Morris is also intriguing and would mind seeing more of him. Cook has already started ramping up, but I think a Bills Championship has him in a better than 50/50 role.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think Gilliam has been underutilized as a receiver. I would like to see him used as a target in the flat on play action more often. He has even shown an ability to get open up the seam on occasion.

Gilliam is def an unsung hero and a jack of all trades guy.

 

I still think Diggs is underused despite putting up close to his career numbers. I think Dorsey could be a lot more creative w/ him. 
 

Honorable mention: Hines

[MAJBobby]

I will feel SOOOOO Much better about the Bills in the Playoffs. IF 

 

I can see the early season Bills offense the next two weeks. 

[SectionC3]

Diggs.  Knox.  I'll go with tempo as #3.  I'd like to see them play with a little more pace sometimes.  Maybe diversity as #4.  Still waiting for a rope-a-dope game plan like we saw against KC in the regular season last year.  This would be the week to bust it out if we have it. 

[BigAl2526]

I think that with milder temperatures in Cincinnati, the Bills will open up their offense more, particularly with the offensive line being a bit healthier.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by BigAl2526

[ganesh]

21 hours ago, MPT said:

It definitely has looked like they're keeping some things close to the vest until playoff time. The lack of usage of players who have delivered results in limited opportunities has been head scratching. They also haven't used many creative plays like the examples you're talking about.

 

This game is as close to playoff importance as a regular season game gets (other than a win-and-get-in scenario). It will be interesting to see if they start showing some new wrinkles. 

 

Either that or Dorsey is actually just vanilla or die.

The Bills showed last week that they can run the ball effectively without Allen carrying the rock.  Will they continue to show case that?

[Don Otreply]

Under used weapons…, hmmm, 

Isiah Hodgins comes to mind…, no wait, 

 

I just couldn’t help myself, 😂

[Beck Water]

21 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Morris and Knox on field together. Morris has shown to have some of the better hands on the team. 

 

Morris can get a good release off the line, and run really good routes, too.  when OBL had Cosell on he commented "that's a very good route for a TE" on a couple of Morris clips.  It's because he's a converted WR of course.  His TE skills like blocking are still coming up to speed, though.

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The Bills showed last week that they can run the ball effectively without Allen carrying the rock.  Will they continue to show case that?

 

With all respect, when we watched the Bills in pre-season and opening day against the Rams, many of us thought our run game looked very promising.

 

But that didn't last.

 

I think the bottom line is that we can run well against weak DLs, but we're still struggling to run between the tackles against top DLs.  Unfortunately the Bengals fall into the "top DL" category, so I'm not anticipating 250 yds, but I'm hopeful that between the Vikings the Browns and the Lions, we've identified some run strategies that can work.  Against the Browns, we rushed for 171 yds - of which Allen had 7

20 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’ve been hoping that we’d have shakir more involved by now, but it’s looking like he’s just a short armed blocker atm

 

He's just a short armed blocker ATM because he's not getting open.  He's not getting releases when he plays on the line, he's not decoding the zone correctly when he's playing against zone, he's not beating his guy when he's playing against man.  This is from what I've seen, and I'll make the caveat that I haven't watched all-22 of every game nor does NFL+ make it easy to pull out individual plays.

 

20 hours ago, NewEra said:

Morris can be a matchup problem.  His release on that TD vs Miami was awesome.

 

Agreed, that was a sick move.

 

20 hours ago, NewEra said:

Has anyone watched how he’s doing as a blocker?

 

I think the correct term is "progressing"

20 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

I wouldn't mind seeing them throw to Diggs 10 times.

 

How many of those throws do you want him to haul in?

[Beck Water]

16 hours ago, Mango said:

The Bills could line up in a heavy set and have a real chance of throwing the ball. Especially if Cook is the RB. 

 

This has been, IMO, a slightly promising development of recent.  Bills have lined up in a heavy set with an extra OLman then throw.

[chongli]

There is a joke to be made by someone regarding the title of this thread.

[Beck Water]

16 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't care as much about Morris or Gilliam as offensive weapons.  But I'd sure like to see Hines and Shakir more involved. 

 

15 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Would not mind seeing Hines involved more in a variety of ways. This game to me seems ripe for the HBs to have success on the ground and through the air. He has that versatility and has not been used a ton yet.

 

15 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Hines and Shakir need to be more involved going forward. Hones in particular is deadly with the ball in his hands, and we're not succeeding in enabling that thus far. Morris is also intriguing and would mind seeing more of him. Cook has already started ramping up, but I think a Bills Championship has him in a better than 50/50 role.

 

I'm picking on you guys, but I'd really like to understand the thought process when people say things like this.

 

Shakir has a 50% catch rate.  9 catches on 18 targets.  18 targets on 260 snaps.  If, in 260 snaps, Allen has only seen an opening to target him 18 times of which he has caught 9, why do you want to see him more involved?

 

Hines has 6 carries for -3 yards.  That's arguably not his fault, but it arguably doesn't show he's "deadly with the ball in his hands" either. 

He has 5 receptions on 9 targets for 53 yds, a 55.6% catch rate.  This is on 63 snaps, so it's not like he's never been on the field.

 

Now I'll grant that in those 53 yds, 45 of them are YAC for 9 YAC/reception, so he is getting YAC.  But ~half of them come on one reception vs. NWE.

 

I want to love Hines and Shakir, I do - I'm just wondering what you guys see that leads you to the conclusion that the Bills wouldn't involve them more if they were in position to be more involved, especially Shakir.

[LABILLBACKER]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

I'm picking on you guys, but I'd really like to understand the thought process when people say things like this.

 

Shakir has a 50% catch rate.  9 catches on 18 targets.  18 targets on 260 snaps.  If, in 260 snaps, Allen has only seen an opening to target him 18 times of which he has caught 9, why do you want to see him more involved?

 

Hines has 6 carries for -3 yards.  That's arguably not his fault, but it arguably doesn't show he's "deadly with the ball in his hands" either. 

He has 5 receptions on 9 targets for 53 yds, a 55.6% catch rate.  This is on 63 snaps, so it's not like he's never been on the field.

 

Now I'll grant that in those 53 yds, 45 of them are YAC for 9 YAC/reception, so he is getting YAC.  But ~half of them come on one reception vs. NWE.

 

I want to love Hines and Shakir, I do - I'm just wondering what you guys see that leads you to the conclusion that the Bills wouldn't involve them more if they were in position to be more involved, especially Shakir.

I think alot of this discussion involves Josh getting too locked in "visually" to his 3 primary receivers of Diggs, Davis & Knox.  I don't necessarily feel it's an issue of Hines or Shakir not being open.  He's just gotta spread the love around a little more. 

[The Jokeman]

22 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Morris and Knox on field together. Morris has shown to have some of the better hands on the team. 

Gilliam also a bit under the radar, as he love to see us throw him short more as think defenses wouldn't be look to go to him. 

[frostbitmic]

Lately it seems like Diggs.

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Lately it seems like Diggs.

We're saving him for the playoffs. 

[frostbitmic]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

We're saving him for the playoffs. 

I've thought of that as well, same with Knox and maybe Beasley.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

I'm picking on you guys, but I'd really like to understand the thought process when people say things like this.

 

Shakir has a 50% catch rate.  9 catches on 18 targets.  18 targets on 260 snaps.  If, in 260 snaps, Allen has only seen an opening to target him 18 times of which he has caught 9, why do you want to see him more involved?

 

Hines has 6 carries for -3 yards.  That's arguably not his fault, but it arguably doesn't show he's "deadly with the ball in his hands" either. 

He has 5 receptions on 9 targets for 53 yds, a 55.6% catch rate.  This is on 63 snaps, so it's not like he's never been on the field.

 

Now I'll grant that in those 53 yds, 45 of them are YAC for 9 YAC/reception, so he is getting YAC.  But ~half of them come on one reception vs. NWE.

 

I want to love Hines and Shakir, I do - I'm just wondering what you guys see that leads you to the conclusion that the Bills wouldn't involve them more if they were in position to be more involved, especially Shakir.

I only said Hines, but think for both he and Shakir the general theme of “bringing them along slowly” applies and explains why they have not been used more yet. Shakir is a 5th round rookie and Hines was acquired at the deadline.

 

Hines to me represents 1 of 3 true dual threats on our offense. Allen and Cook being the other 2. That’s why involving him more is important. The more multi-threat players on offense, the more versatile Dorsey in theory can be, the more guessing/decision-making the defense has to do, and the more potential for defensive mistakes.

[Billsfan1972]

20 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

I only said Hines, but think for both he and Shakir the general theme of “bringing them along slowly” applies and explains why they have not been used more yet. Shakir is a 5th round rookie and Hines was acquired at the deadline.

 

Hines to me represents 1 of 3 true dual threats on our offense. Allen and Cook being the other 2. That’s why involving him more is important. The more multi-threat players on offense, the more versatile Dorsey in theory can be, the more guessing/decision-making the defense has to do, and the more potential for defensive mistakes.

Hines came from Indy averaging 3-4 catches/game & 80% completion %, yet here he's <1.  I think there's the answer.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Aurelius]

All WR’s not named Diggs.  Time for Gabe Davis to wake up!

[CoudyBills]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

How many of those throws do you want him to haul in?

76%...ish

[JohnBonhamRocks]

59 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Hines came from Indy averaging 3-4 catches/game & 80% completion %, yet here he's <1.  I think there's the answer.

Yep need to get him more plays designed for him specifically.

Who knows, maybe that’s something Dorsey has been saving for a big potentially-1st-seed-clinching game?

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Yep need to get him more plays designed for him specifically.

Who knows, maybe that’s something Dorsey has been saving for a big potentially-1st-seed-clinching game?

I'd say tonight is just as important if not more so. I'd be embarrassed if he was the reason we needed to beat New England.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Billsfan1972