Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

[JohnNord]

I re-watched the Bills/Bears game the other day and noticed a few nice reps from Kingsley Jonathan against a bad OL.  It was impressive to see a guy off the PS flash a bit in his limited opportunities.  He was activated because Boogie Basham was injured and there was basically no drop off between an undrafted DE who bounced between PS’s and a 2nd round draft pick.

 

In my opinion, the selection of Boogie Basham pick is looking very underwhelming. I’m pretty sure the idea that like Rosseau, the idea was to give him a “redshirt” season to learn from vets like Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison to get him ready to contribute in year 2.  The idea was good but the execution was poor.  
 

But after 1 season, Basham was not ready to contribute or to start and the team ended up sinking major assets for another DE in Von Miller.  

I’m kind of wondering why they selected Basham from the start.  Pre-draft one of the things that made him appealing was his ability to be a hybrid DE/DT.  He was supposed to be “pro-ready” and not a project like Rosseau. Yet the Bills had him drop a bunch of weight to be a faster edge rusher which never was his forte.  Essentially making him a project DE.  
 

The returns of the 2nd draft pick is a rotational player who gives you the same production as a replacement level player.  

I guess there’s a chance he can improve a little bit like AJ Epinesa, but when you have street free agents like Shaq Lawson or undrafted practice squad players like Jonathan outplaying you, it’s hard to feel optimistic that a jump is coming in year 3.

Edited December 30, 2022 by JohnNord

[SoCal Deek]

Is this even debatable? As of now…a totally wasted draft pick. 

[balln]

I find it very alarming that they draft

 

AJE - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

bills continue to sign and draft DL

 

Basham  - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

Bills continue to draft DB , sign DL

 

Elam - he’s health scratch despite rookie benford injured and tre white needing more time to come back 

 

Bernard - ooof what a bad pick. 

 

NO wr (aside from shakir who they don’t target) 

 

and we still have to sign or lure out of retirement players like x rhodes CB (who started over Elam who didn’t even dress). Klein Lb. Beasley and John brown. And then this fringe player DE Kingsley who looked more impactful in his FIRST GAME then ppl above

 

ALARMING. It’s part bad draft

selections / falling in love w process guys. Bad coaching decisions / they def play favorites. 

[NewEra]

It was disappointing the second we made the pick.  Always looked like a JAG to me.  I believe he’ll be wearing a different uniform after the 24 season 

[Draconator]

I'd like to say, still in development. But the development time clock is coming to an end.

[Mango]

Let me start by saying I am a big fan of McBeane at scale. 

But...

The redrafting and comitting of resources to the same position groups feels like it is catching up to us. Basham, AJE, Rousseau, and Miller as the 4th highest paid pass rusher. We have done similar with with RB. Now we are going into an offseason with minimal cap space (or kick the can down the road), 20+ UFA's, and big needs at OL and WR. 

 

Ultimately I think Moss, Hines, AJE, and Basham took away the opportunity to help get people in the building for ignored position groups. Getting cute with Hodgins doesn't help either.

 

We also don't seem to get a ton out of a lot of rookie contracts lately until they push the end of the deal and need to be renewed.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Mango

[Aussie Joe]

I was angry when they picked him in the draft thread here… 

 

I also remember a couple of people here that wanted to pick him in the first round…👎

[TheBeaneBandit]

It all goes back to passing on Creed. Right now he could be killing it at RG while Bates was at LG (we coulda skipped Saffold) patiently waiting to slide in for Mitch......😤

[balln]

Ed Oliver pick was bad. Go look at that draft and see what they passed up DL/D wise 

[uticaclub]

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

[Process]

Lol what? 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, balln said:

I find it very alarming that they draft

 

AJE - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

bills continue to sign and draft DL

 

Basham  - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

Bills continue to draft DB , sign DL

 

Elam - he’s health scratch despite rookie benford injured and tre white needing more time to come back 

 

Bernard - ooof what a bad pick. 

 

NO wr (aside from shakir who they don’t target) 

 

and we still have to sign or lure out of retirement players like x rhodes CB (who started over Elam who didn’t even dress). Klein Lb. Beasley and John brown. And then this fringe player DE Kingsley who looked more impactful in his FIRST GAME then ppl above

 

ALARMING. It’s part bad draft

selections / falling in love w process guys. Bad coaching decisions / they def play favorites. 

 

 

I agree with this. Unsure if alarming is the word I would choose but I think I agree with the sentiment. 

Signing Beasley and Brown is needed but is also seems dumb. They might not be on the 53, but they take spots on game day. Neither are as good Hodgins. The Bills have made a few bad roster choices that they have and will have to make up for in cap dollars, re-signings, and drafting. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I was angry when they picked him in the draft thread here… 

 

I also remember a couple of people here that wanted to pick him in the first round…👎

 

I am not a draft guru, but my immediate thoughts were "if we are lucky he will be as good as Chris Kelsay. He still isn't as good....

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, balln said:

Ed Oliver pick was bad. Go look at that draft and see what they passed up DL/D wise 

If we can live in hindsight we would have HOF level players at every position.  You make the decision with the information you have at the time.

[T master]

9 minutes ago, balln said:

I find it very alarming that they draft

 

AJE - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

bills continue to sign and draft DL

 

Basham  - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

Bills continue to draft DB , sign DL

 

Elam - he’s health scratch despite rookie benford injured and tre white needing more time to come back 

 

Bernard - ooof what a bad pick. 

 

NO wr (aside from shakir who they don’t target) 

 

and we still have to sign or lure out of retirement players like x rhodes CB (who started over Elam who didn’t even dress). Klein Lb. Beasley and John brown. And then this fringe player DE Kingsley who looked more impactful in his FIRST GAME then ppl above

 

ALARMING. It’s part bad draft

selections / falling in love w process guys. Bad coaching decisions / they def play favorites. 

 

Fire them all starting with Beane then McD they don't have a clue  how to draft players !! Oh wait our record is what ?

 

Oh Yah 12 & 3 & we have won the AFC east division 3 yrs in a row & have been in the play offs ever since McD & Beane have been here . 🤔

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

 

Have to agree…

 

Beane has been good, but his drafting has resulted in more “average” to “about average”  players than “great” to “elite” players.

[JohnNord]

12 minutes ago, balln said:

I find it very alarming that they draft

 

AJE - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

bills continue to sign and draft DL

 

Basham  - he’s healthy scratch much of his rookie year and beyond 

Bills continue to draft DB , sign DL

 

Elam - he’s health scratch despite rookie benford injured and tre white needing more time to come back 

 

Bernard - ooof what a bad pick. 

 

NO wr (aside from shakir who they don’t target) 

 

and we still have to sign or lure out of retirement players like x rhodes CB (who started over Elam who didn’t even dress). Klein Lb. Beasley and John brown. And then this fringe player DE Kingsley who looked more impactful in his FIRST GAME then ppl above

 

ALARMING. It’s part bad draft

selections / falling in love w process guys. Bad coaching decisions / they def play favorites. 

 

I’ve always thought that it was a really bad sign when you make your high round draft picks a healthy scratch - especially at positions of need

[Einstein]

 

I also wish Beane would pull the trigger on trades more. Wish we got Von in the trade that LA pulled off last year. I think we have a trophy if he did that.

[WideNine]

I was hoping for Creed, and was so happy when he fell to where we could nab him that any other pick was jaded for me.

 

Boogie seemed like a reach to me, but then again so did Oliver where they picked him.

 

I can't fault this team just for the misses though, when the same evaluators are the ones that targeted Groot when other teams whiffed on him.

 

They do tend to find more than their share of projects that need long runways to get up to NFL speed.

 

Oliver again seems to finally be coming into his own after being pretty underwhelming his first few seasons.

 

That really bites into the cap advantage of riding out the rookie deals with guys that can contribute early.

 

 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

If we can live in hindsight we would have HOF level players at every position.  You make the decision with the information you have at the time.

Yea he’s 6 feet tall. Undersized from a mid major. With ok but not elite production 

 

I’ll take the 6’4 monsters from Clemson and bama picked after him that have been much better pros 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

 

I can half get behind this. There have been some mistakes. But you can't throw out Allen, Milano, Edmunds (who is coming to life), Rousseau. 

We are just at a moment where some roster and draft choices are compounding issues. Part of it is we dedicate a lot of vet special team players rather than using special teams as a proving ground to get better. Milano is a good example of that, but we don't have many other examples since 2017. 

 

With all of our continued offensive line and run game woes we have actually had one of the highest paid OL, DL, and LB corp on a number of seasons. Cap allocation is part of the total picture. We continue to devote resources without return. 

[TheBeaneBandit]

8 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

Agreed. Or at the very least one of them would be gone.

[Albany,n.y.]

The biggest problem with the Basham pick is they thought enough of him that they turned down a trade down offer.  

[No_Matter_What]

OP starts a thread about specific player and in no time this is about all other draft picks and Beane drafting in general. SMH.

 

As for Basham, he seems like a fine rotational piece to me. If he was drafted in 3rd/4th he would be a nice pick, so yes, he is a little bit disappointing. But at the time when he was picked he was often mocked higher so this is fine with me. And he still has a chance to be a liitle bit better.

 

My only problem is that I've always felt we should be drafting OL more/sooner, and this looked like a good moment to draft Creed Humphrey (not a hindsight, I don't follow college, so I only knew him by name, but he was OL who seemed like a fit and was talked about when we picked) and now we know he should've been the pick.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

But you can't throw out Allen, Milano, Edmunds (who is coming to life), Rousseau. 

 

Tre but every team has a few good players 

 

Even during the drought we had Kyle Williams, Stevie Johnson, Jason Peters, Eric Wood, Fred Jackson, Aaron Schobel, Nate Clements, etc.

 

The difference is Allen.

[hemma]

How players are evaluated is a mystery to me.

i was trying to find ytd snap counts and stumbled on this site:  https://www.lineups.com/nfl/snap-counts/buffalo-bills-snap-counts

 

Ratings

Basham 74

Epenesa 72

Lawson 71

Kingsley Jonathan 67

 

I guess, trust the Coaches, but none of these guys look like world beaters.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

Yes, of course it was. Lots of better options on the board who could’ve been starters since his role was always going to be DL depth. That’s an awfully high pick for a depth piece. 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Tre but every team has a few good players 

 

Even during the drought we had Kyle Williams, Stevie Johnson, Jason Peters, Eric Wood, Fred Jackson, Aaron Schobel, Nate Clements, etc.

 

The difference is Allen.

 

I try not to include Tre. Not as a knock on McBeane, but you get into a weird grey area of who is responsible for which mistake/win. I feel like it muddies the water. 

[Buddo]

I see Hodgkins name coming up a lot in these types of threads.

 

While I'm glad he's finally making a go of it with the Giants, he spent the vast majority of his time here on IR.

 

I'm not sure anybody here thought he'd make it through most of a season, probably ever.

 

Basham is probably a miss.

 

More so imho, from being a 'tweener' than anything else, because I think that McFrazier has changed their outlook on the body types they want for their D Line generally, requiring guys with more size and length.

 

I'd also say that Basham, as a tweener, is being somewhat hung out to dry, depending on what McFrazier want from week to week, depending on injuries.

 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I try not to include Tre. Not as a knock on McBeane, but you get into a weird grey area of who is responsible for which mistake/win. I feel like it muddies the water. 

 

That was supposed to be “true”, not “tre”. Slip of the finger!

[ndirish1978]

Basham was a waste of a pick, he was supposed to be pro-ready with a relatively low ceiling / high floor. He has been a jag since being drafted. 

[JohnNord]

25 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Fire them all starting with Beane then McD they don't have a clue  how to draft players !! Oh wait our record is what ?

 

Oh Yah 12 & 3 & we have won the AFC east division 3 yrs in a row & have been in the play offs ever since McD & Beane have been here . 🤔

I never said they had no clue how to draft.  Just that Boogie Basham was a bad pick.  Not sure why you feel the need to change the subject.  

Do you disagree that Boogie has been a disappointment as a second round pick?

Edited December 30, 2022 by JohnNord

[Seoulofstone]

Can somebody please tell me what my expectations should be for a DE picked 61? Are we expecting Max Crosby? Or is this just a boo-hoo we didn’t get Creed thread?

 

 

[RiotAct]

26 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

If we can live in hindsight we would have HOF level players at every position.  You make the decision with the information you have at the time.

and that’s assuming their career would have taken the same trajectory with the Bills as it did with the team that actually selected them.

 

Spoiler alert: in many cases, it wouldn’t.

[JohnNord]

21 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The biggest problem with the Basham pick is they thought enough of him that they turned down a trade down offer.  

When was this?  A trade for Basham?  Or an opportunity to trade down?

[JerseyBills]

Ya as of now he wasn't worth it at all but I too noticed 59 flash on the screen.  Had to look up who he was because I was impressed.  Wonder if he sticks on the 53

[T master]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

I never said they had no clue how to draft.  Just that Boogie Basham was a bad pick.  Not sure why you feel the need to change the subject.  

Do you disagree that Boogie has been a disappointment as a second round pick?

 

I went there because that's what most every one in Bills mafia says about players that aren't killing it despite where the Bills came from to where they are .

 

The Bills like every other team will have players that they miss on but i don't believe Boogie is one of them .

 

Sure he's not Von Miller but he's no Arron Maybin either if nothing else he could be a very dependable depth player so although he may not be living up to his draft status & what they thought he could be (which may be to soon to determine) but the jury is still out IMHO .

 

He is productive & isn't getting blown up every play and has some good plays he helps on so i'm good . 

[Einstein's Dog]

43 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

In my opinion, the selection of Boogie Basham pick is looking very underwhelming. I’m pretty sure the idea that like Rosseau, the idea was to give him a “redshirt” season to learn from vets like Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison to get him ready to contribute in year 2.  The idea was good but the execution was poor.  
 

But after 1 season, Basham was not ready to contribute or to start and the team ended up sinking major assets for another DE in Von Miller.  

I’m kind of wondering why they selected Basham from the start.
 

The returns of the 2nd draft pick is a rotational player who gives you the same production as a replacement level player.  

 

They picked Boogie because they wanted a stellar defensive line at a cost they could afford.  Neither Groot nor Boogie was a lock (nor is anyone at the 20+ range in the draft).    But they were going to be groomed and hope to have a chance.

 

These picks replaced the Murphy/Addison/Butlers of $8M-$12M range.  These figures are more than it costs for a starting Olinemen.

[JohnNord]

7 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

Can somebody please tell me what my expectations should be for a DE picked 61? Are we expecting Max Crosby? Or is this just a boo-hoo we didn’t get Creed thread?

 

 

I didn’t mention Creed Humphrey at all.  I just said that when there’s not much drop off between a UFA and a 2nd round DE which leads me to believe it was a bad draft pick.  
 

So let me restate the original question - do you think Boogie Basham was a disappointing draft pick?

[John from Riverside]

As of this time yes he’s not living up to a second round draft pick
 

I mean for chrissake Kingsley, who I didn’t even know who it was came in and made an immediate impact

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

42 minutes ago, balln said:

Ed Oliver pick was bad. Go look at that draft and see what they passed up DL/D wise 

Someone else gets it here.

 

He's made some plays this season (about time) but WAY over-drafted.