Devin Singletary not scoring a TD with 34 seconds left

[ExiledInIllinois]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'm surprised how much discussion this play has warranted. I can lay out exactly what happens if Singletary runs into the endzone there. The Dolphins get the ball back with 34 seconds left and 1 timeout. On 1st down we drop everyone way back into soft coverage and Tua deliver the ball to one of his speedy weapons who is tackled close to the 50. Dolphins take their last timeout with maybe 27 seconds remaining. They now have a few chances to let Waddle or Hill get past the secondary or take a quick slant to the house. Damar Hamlin is standing deep in the secondary itching to take the worst angle you've ever seen in a football game. I would not be comfortable AT ALL in that scenario.

 

It's that or trust your reliable FG team to kick one that's even closer than an XP as time expires.

 

No brainer decision against this Dolphins team.

Then they go for 2pts. and win! 😆 

 

I am so glad the stadium built on a Native American village site and burial grounds would have no part of this alternate reality scenario. 

 

Devin made the right choice. He didn't need the 1st down. Josh took a knee on next play and moved ball back another 4 yards!

 

Oh... Here it is again:

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

I watched the end 6 times and never had a bad opinion of it, yet here we are, page 16 🤣 

[Devilmann]

To many what ifs for me to continue reading this thread after a page , but here is the bottom line. We won and I don’t give a crap how it happened. We can sit here and play the would have should have could have game all day and nothing is going to change the fact we won. I for one am tired of the damn 13 second memes and 3 or 4 DB’s and safety’s in the backfield getting clowned by one guy on a last second Hail Mary. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

19 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Yeah, I was in the "he should have scored the TD" camp for the reasons you gave. Ideally, you want to leave no time on the clock, but this ain't Mahomes we're dealing with. I doubt Tua could engineer a miraculous TD drive in the snow with 30 seconds and no TOs.

 

 

You haven't paid attention to the dolphins and are overhyping the snow. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'm surprised how much discussion this play has warranted. I can lay out exactly what happens if Singletary runs into the endzone there. The Dolphins get the ball back with 34 seconds left and 1 timeout. On 1st down we drop everyone way back into soft coverage and Tua delivers the ball to one of his speedy weapons who is tackled close to the 50. Dolphins take their last timeout with maybe 27 seconds remaining. They now have a few chances to let Waddle or Hill get past the secondary or take a quick slant to the house. Damar Hamlin is standing deep in the secondary itching to take the worst angle you've ever seen in a football game. I would not be comfortable AT ALL in that scenario.

 

It's that or trust your reliable FG team to kick one that's even closer than an XP as time expires.

 

No brainer decision against this Dolphins team.

 

 

Isn't an even a discussion. The people who think otherwise are just objectively wrong.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You know... Lost in all this, even if Bass misses kick... They would have got another chance and closer. Miami was Offside on the winning kick, Bills declined the penalty of course!

 

It would have moved it to 2 yard line, a true PAT:

 

"4th & 4 at MIA 7

(0:00 - 4th) T.Bass 25 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-R.Ferguson, Holder-S.Martin. Penalty on MIA-K.Crossen, Defensive Offside, declined."

[NoSaint]

13 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I respect that for sure. But I'm also sure that I was not the only one nervous about bass slipping or a botched snap. 

but not about a blown coverage or a DB slipping if we give the ball back?

[Not at the table Karlos]

21 hours ago, chongli said:

 

I saw the players clear snow. But I was wondering why Bass didn't point them to the area where he started his run. That is also a very critical area.

 

 

Someone called me Mr. Plow at the game. I knew there was a song but I couldn't remember it. Thank you for posting this. 

[CSBill]

At the time, I was wanting them to get the TD. But this is why . . .

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by CSBill

[muppy]

20 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's brilliant, actually.

I agree. The result was also Brilliant. Being in total control of the clock so as to not give your opposition any chance to comeback as opposed to the other was in my mind brilliant. Our kicker is as dialed in and reliable as there is in the NFL. Giving he a chance for a chip shot field goal to end the game once and for all was brilliant.

 

This situation being preplanned for by the coaching staff is the kind of thinking you Want from your head coach. It was the kind of thinking that some people didn't think McDermott was capable of both in terms of time And game management. 

 

If it hadn't have worked well then you go to OT. I liked the call but I also Respected the call if that makes any sense. Kept the end game result in our control to the bitter end. If Motor had scored those last few seconds would have been an eternity . That game was way too close as it was.  WHEW. Im  sooo glad we WON

[Low Positive]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Isn't an even a discussion. The people who think otherwise are just objectively wrong.

Spread on this game was Bills -7. I think that might be driving this discussion more than anything.

[Goin Breakdown]

54 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

but not about a blown coverage or a DB slipping if we give the ball back?

I'm going to be honest. I'm nervous the whole game. Glad we won! Go Bills!!

[pocoboy]

McDermott is behind the times on strategy, and got blasted in the first Miami game for clock management issues.

 

So I think he drilled this particular strategic point into the heads of his players, and honestly, I'm not sure I want a jump ball between Hill/Waddle and this defensive backfield. But it's kind of like McDermott's "see, I know what I'm doing" trick.

 

But yes, taking a touchdown lead with ~ 0:30 to go would seem insurmountable. But then again, 2022 seems to be the Year Of The Bills Defensive Choke Job and finding new ways to screw up endgames.

Edited December 19, 2022 by pocoboy

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

McDermott is behind the times on strategy, and got blasted in the first Miami game for clock management issues.

 

So I think he drilled this particular strategic point into the heads of his players, and honestly, I'm not sure I want a jump ball between Hill/Waddle and this defensive backfield. But it's kind of like McDermott's "see, I know what I'm doing" trick.

 

But yes, taking a touchdown lead with ~ 0:30 to go would seem insurmountable. But then again, 2022 seems to be the Year Of The Bills Defensive Choke Job and finding new ways to screw up endgames.

11-3. ABJECT defensive failure.

 

[jletha]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

I'm surprised how much discussion this play has warranted. I can lay out exactly what happens if Singletary runs into the endzone there. The Dolphins get the ball back with 34 seconds left and 1 timeout. On 1st down we drop everyone way back into soft coverage and Tua delivers the ball to one of his speedy weapons who is tackled close to the 50. Dolphins take their last timeout with maybe 27 seconds remaining. They now have a few chances to let Waddle or Hill get past the secondary or take a quick slant to the house. Damar Hamlin is standing deep in the secondary itching to take the worst angle you've ever seen in a football game. I would not be comfortable AT ALL in that scenario.

 

It's that or trust your reliable FG team to kick one that's even closer than an XP as time expires.

 

No brainer decision against this Dolphins team.

 

Seriously. In both instances, whether he goes down or not, something flukey has to happen in order to lose. Either Bass misses the chipshot because of the conditions or Miami goes down the field and scores with 30s and a TO. Of those two options which one is more flukey? IMO, I want to be in control of the situation and not give the ball back at all. Miami cant score without the ball, plain and simple. So dont give them the ball and you have to trust your players to make the play. I, and obvi McD, trust Bass to make that kick every time.

[TH3]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

This right here ^^*
McDermott canceled Hill/waddles abilities by taking them both out of the equation, and won the game by doing so. What’s not to like??

Yes also …How about this..Miami WANTED THE BILLS TO SCORE SO THEY COULD GET THE BALL BACK….Mcd nixed this

[Lane Meyer K12]

Very smart play. Team over self, play. It gave the dolphins no shot (0%) chance of having a fluke play for the win. 

[Magox]

22 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Regardless of your thoughts whether he should have scored the TD, it was an absolutely bonehead play to go down short of the first. 

This doesn't make any sense.

 

The Bills were as far down as they needed to be to get a close FG, there were no timeouts left for Miami, the kick was going to happen with no time left either way.

[SoCal Deek]

Didn’t read through all of these pages but if you want to know if it was ‘smart’ just look at it this way….the Dolphins could’ve tried to let the Bills score. They didn’t. Odd. 

[ytownblofan]

Also, for those saying to take the points and score the TD... the PAT would have been a longer attempt and in those conditions, it would have been much less of a sure thing. With the FG attempt they were closer, and plays had been run in that area that had helped clear some of the snow. 

[Buckets]

23 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

I too thought he should have scored, I mean it was a TD and only 34 sec to go. I was also surprised by the following Josh kneeldown instead of another run attempt.

He also backed up to give Bass a better angle. It was a smart move overall.

[WhoTom]

23 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Yeah, I was in the "he should have scored the TD" camp for the reasons you gave. Ideally, you want to leave no time on the clock, but this ain't Mahomes we're dealing with. I doubt Tua could engineer a miraculous TD drive in the snow with 30 seconds and no TOs.

 

Sometimes you form an opinion and then change it in light of alternative viewpoints. Having read much of this thread has changed my mind. Running down the clock and taking the FG was the smart move.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

For those who would have preferred the TD.  I'm fairly certain they talked to bass at about 2 minutes and he said something along the lines of "left hash, and I'll nail it inside of 40".  They wouldn't set up a kick unless bass said he felt good about it. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[ArdmoreRyno]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:09 AM, chongli said:

[I am sure this has been mentioned elsewhere (the post game thread is way too long for me to read through), but it might be a topic that deserves its own thread. A lot of people are talking about it, but mods feel free to merge this.]

 

I saw the game but did not listen to the NFL Network call. Apparently, Mark Sanchez was critical of Motor's decision to kneel at the four yard line. I will admit I was miffed when I saw the play. My thinking was it is a tie game in very icy conditions. In such conditions, you take the given TD rather than relying on a last-second FG where anything can go wrong (just look at what happened to Justin Tucker yesterday). Yes, I know that would leave Miami 34 seconds and a time out left for the potential tying (or winning) TD, but it is going to be a very hard thing to do. Yes, the Bills did have KC do it to them twice: 13 seconds and a similar thing against them this season at the end of the first half, and Buffalo did it to Minnesota to end the second half this year too, but I still consider it a fluke thing.

 

Still, I can understand the reasoning the other way. Miami has Tyreek and Jaylen, and a defender could just as well slip against them and give up the tying (or winning) TD. And a close FG, even in these situations, is still a relative gimme.

 

It's a tough call, and I will have to side with McD's judgment. He said in the article he has coached his team for this situation, calling it "no mas". Devin, to this credit, knew what to do!

 

In the comments to the article below, almost all of the people were against Buffalo not coring the TD in a tie game in icy conditions, saying the field goal was not a given (although the comments voting was about even). The twitter comments were a little more positive. They said if you have the lead, then sure, but take the points in a tie game in such conditions. They also said if Bass-o-matic missed the FG and the Dolphins went on to win in OT, people would be angry at Motor for costing us the game and first place in the AFC.

 

 

 

I've played WAY too many Madden's game where I see Hill go for 80 yards on a BS deep pass. Motor made the right call. Bass wasn't missing that FG.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, jletha said:

Seriously. In both instances, whether he goes down or not, something flukey has to happen in order to lose. Either Bass misses the chipshot because of the conditions or Miami goes down the field and scores with 30s and a TO. Of those two options which one is more flukey? IMO, I want to be in control of the situation and not give the ball back at all. Miami cant score without the ball, plain and simple. So dont give them the ball and you have to trust your players to make the play. I, and obvi McD, trust Bass to make that kick every time.

hell if we are that scared of bass slipping on a chip shot - who is to say he doesn’t slip trying to boom a kickoff 

[jletha]

4 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

hell if we are that scared of bass slipping on a chip shot - who is to say he doesn’t slip trying to boom a kickoff 

Or the extra point for that matter.

[DonInBuffalo]

pointing out what seems obvious to me, but I haven't seen mentioned in 16 pages -

 

What do the Bills ST do on practice days when it snows?    They practice kicking outside in the snow.

 

The players and coaches all have a VERY good grasp on how much wind, snow in the air, and snow on the ground impact FG attempts, especially in their own stadium.

 

McDermott probably asked the ST coach something like "what are the chances of making a FG here?", and probably got a short answer such as "money".  

[ArdmoreRyno]

12 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

hell if we are that scared of bass slipping on a chip shot - who is to say he doesn’t slip trying to boom a kickoff 

 

And too add... speaking of kickoff. Tyreek Hill, he was at Oklahoma State (I'm an Oklahoma State alum/fan/season ticket holder) and I've seen him return MANY kickoffs and punts for touchdowns. We could have scored the TD only to let the most dynamic player in the NFL return it full speed. No thanks!

[x-BillzeBubba]

if he the decision was made give the Dolls the ball with 30 seconds left, i'd bet there would be the same posters saying that clearly McD doesnt trust Bass enough to let him win the game with his foot

[Greg S]

In normal conditions not scoring and running the clock down is the right move. But with the way the conditions were I thought it was risky to go for the FG. Bass could have easily slipped. In those conditions that kick wasn't an easy one. I realize Bills fans have nightmares about 13 seconds. If the Bills are up by 7 with 30 seconds left they should be able to close out the game. Miami would have to go all the way and score a TD. It doesn't matter as it worked out for the Bills. One more Bills win or Dolphins loss and the AFCE will be ours.

[appoo]

I don't understand how there's even a discussion on this. It was the blatantly correct thing to do, and if Devin HAD scored on this play, then that's a massive mental mistake and bad coaching for not drilling it into his head to NOT score in this situation. 

[Chuck Schick]

4 minutes ago, Greg S said:

In normal conditions not scoring and running the clock down is the right move. But with the way the conditions were I thought it was risky to go for the FG. Bass could have easily slipped. In those conditions that kick wasn't an easy one. I realize Bills fans have nightmares about 13 seconds. If the Bills are up by 7 with 30 seconds left they should be able to close out the game. Miami would have to go all the way and score a TD. It doesn't matter as it worked out for the Bills. One more Bills win or Dolphins loss and the AFCE will be ours.

I just don’t get this line of thinking…have we not seen multiple examples of teams doing exactly this?  Hell, with that amount of time it would be very easy to envision 2 Hail Marys from roughly mid field.  Who the hell wants that, vs a chip shot FG?

[Matt_In_NH]

any time you can have a 99% chance of winning and dont have to give Tyreek Hill the ball, that works for me

[BullBuchanan]

It was the wrong move in that situation. I understand he wanted to avoid giving the Dolphins a chance, but there was a superior option. If Devin goes down after the first down, they're in a position now where they can bleed the rest of the time off and try to score a TD on a handoff with a few seconds on the clock.

A field goal in that situation is extremely risky given the snap, hold and kick in slick conditions. Yes, it worked, but that doesn't mean it was a high probability play and I'd hate to see that become the new standard operating procedure in similar situations when a touchdown is available.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Rochesterfan]

37 minutes ago, Greg S said:

In normal conditions not scoring and running the clock down is the right move. But with the way the conditions were I thought it was risky to go for the FG. Bass could have easily slipped. In those conditions that kick wasn't an easy one. I realize Bills fans have nightmares about 13 seconds. If the Bills are up by 7 with 30 seconds left they should be able to close out the game. Miami would have to go all the way and score a TD. It doesn't matter as it worked out for the Bills. One more Bills win or Dolphins loss and the AFCE will be ours.

 

If Bass was going to slip on a short FG with little torque needed - an XP and a kick-off would both be significantly worse and more likely to slip and cause issues.

 

Imagine scoring and he slips on the kickoff and it goes OOB or as happened earlier in the year - the dolphins recover near midfield with 35 seconds and a timeout.

 

The chances of winning by him going down was higher than the chance of winning if he scored.

 

The chance of losing in regulation also goes up if he scores as Miami has the ball and controls whether to tie or go for the win if they score.

 

Kicking an easy FG in fine conditions was by far the correct choice and allowed the Bills to control the games outcome - exactly as they should want.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

27 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

It was the wrong move in that situation. I understand he wanted to avoid giving the Dolphins a chance, but there was a superior option. If Devin goes down after the first down, they're in a position now where they can bleed the rest of the time off and try to score a TD on a handoff with a few seconds on the clock.

A field goal in that situation is extremely risky given the snap, hold and kick in slick conditions. Yes, it worked, but that doesn't mean it was a high probability play and I'd hate to see that become the new standard operating procedure in similar situations when a touchdown is available.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Why would you risk any more handoffs or risk getting tackled and not having time for the time out and most importantly- there is almost no chance unless you are a psychopath that the TD would be the last play - meaning in those same slick conditions that you don’t want to attempt a short FG - now they have to kick-off and kick a longer kick as an XP.

 

 

 

The Bills did exactly what should be the standard and made the last play either we win or OT - no credible chance for Miami to control the ball and win.

 

It was the sound decision and the correct decision and not only should be, but is the SOP for end of game calls and it was highlighted by the Jets beating the Browns earlier this year in a similar situation.  Good teams learn and in this case the Bills have executed that exact situation to perfection twice this year.

 

 

[Greg S]

47 minutes ago, Chuck Schick said:

I just don’t get this line of thinking…have we not seen multiple examples of teams doing exactly this?  Hell, with that amount of time it would be very easy to envision 2 Hail Marys from roughly mid field.  Who the hell wants that, vs a chip shot FG?

 

In normal conditions then absolutely. In those conditions that wasn't a chip shot. If Bass slips and misses the kick and they lose, then this board would be going nuclear on McDermott and Singletary. It worked out so who cares now as the Bills won.

[Chuck Schick]

9 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

In normal conditions then absolutely. In those conditions that wasn't a chip shot. If Bass slips and misses the kick and they lose, then this board would be going nuclear on McDermott and Singletary. It worked out so who cares now as the Bills won.

Did anyone noticeably slip at any point during the game?  I think Tua stumbled once, but not really a slip. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, Chuck Schick said:

Did anyone noticeably slip at any point during the game?  I think Tua stumbled once, but not really a slip. 

I slipped, but I was majorly liquored up. I also probably stumbled but that was a long time ago in Beer/Shot Years. 

[Rochesterfan]

58 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

In normal conditions then absolutely. In those conditions that wasn't a chip shot. If Bass slips and misses the kick and they lose, then this board would be going nuclear on McDermott and Singletary. It worked out so who cares now as the Bills won.

 

So you were worried about a slip on a short FG, but would of been ok with the longer XP and a significantly more important kickoff.

 

I just don’t know what to say.