Gregory Rousseau is becoming elite

[billsfan89]

The young guns on the Dline have been playing better and Shaq is continuing to have a solid season. AJ got a sack and a pass batted Boogie didn’t light up the stat sheet this past week but I thought he played decently. Von’s impact has been felt off the field.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Above average starter means he’s - what - a top 20-30 NFL DE?
 

I think it’s fair to place him there until he sustains his production over a longer span of time. 

 

 

Eh.  I just go by what I see on the field.  He’s within the top 20 DE’s imo.  He’s does it all and affect the fame in ways others can’t.  I think he’s currently our 2nd best player on D behind Milano. 

[smuvtalker]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:20 PM, KzooMike said:

He's like a fly trap. If you get near him it triggers and you're done. I think he's the best pass rush finisher we have right now. Remember, he has been out for awhile. So as Von departs, Groot rejoins the party. It might even end up being a + situation. He's developing so quickly. 

Love the analogy.  IMO he's without a doubt the best DL on our team.  Yes, his physical tools are a specimen, but what I really love hearing from coaches and players alike is that he's such a student of the game, Frazier and Von specifically come to mind.   Another just really hard to believe tidbit of info....the kid is TWENTY-TWO FREAKIN YEARS OLD!!!  OMG is he even done growing yet?  So many crazy things to think about with this kid in terms of potential.  He played a whopping two games his true freshman year at Miami before suffering a season ending ankle injury.  So his first FULL season, 2019, he begins the year coming off the bench.  Not only does he finish the year as the starting DE, but he wins ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year and finishes the season number TWO in the nation with 15.5 sacks, just one sack shy of the sack leader, who notched 16.5.  In case you were wondering who was number one in the country?  Mr Chase Young.  Not too shabby for a redshirt freshman.  He sits out his entire sophomore year due to Covid.  So basically the kid had one whole year of college ball before declaring for the NFL draft.  If you ask me, he's the defensive equivalent to Josh Allen with regard to pure physical talent.  All the measurables are there.  Now I know this may be a stretch to ask/hope for, but if he makes the progress every year like Josh has, my God.  All jokes aside, when you look in the dictionary next to the phrase, "His potential is limitless.", there should be a big ol picture of him.

 

He has 7 sacks this year, and I don't see any reason why he can't eclipse double digits. 

[GreggTX]

What I like best is that he continues to trend upward. A lot of teams passed on him because he sat out his senior year after a phenominal junior season. It looks like that was no fluke. He may well turn out to be the best DE taken in his draft class. He's better than Oliver.

 

 

 

[Big Turk]

This appears to show Groot has been the 3rd best edge pass rusher in terms of performance over expectation based on his assignments. Only behind Parsons and Garrett.  That's pretty good company.

 

 

[Big Turk]

 

[BullBuchanan]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:21 PM, JerseyBills said:

He's the Edmunds of the DL.

 

 

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Lol I don't get you guys. Edmunds is an elite LB. Second person to say this , I don't understand.  If Groot turned into the equivalent of Edmunds at DE, that's a great player

[Buffalo716]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:56 AM, GreggTX said:

What I like best is that he continues to trend upward. A lot of teams passed on him because he sat out his senior year after a phenominal junior season. It looks like that was no fluke. He may well turn out to be the best DE taken in his draft class. He's better than Oliver.

 

 

 

He sat out his RS SO year 

 

he had a lot of eligibility left

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

It’s impressive how thick and strong he appears along with the height and long arms. In Interviews he comes across as humble and grounded for such a gifted athlete 

[Thurman#1]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:10 AM, KzooMike said:

7 sacks in 10 starts this season. His length is disruptive. You cant get into his radius and come out ok. He seems to have a really good head on his shoulders. Has said he keeps learning from Von. I wonder how many sacks Von has added by just training with our line? My guess would be at least 5.

 

Groot looks like he will become a force  

 

 

A force? Absolutely.

 

Elite? Certainly not yet.

 

Elite generally in football means top three or four at your position. Groot isn't getting there yet. Still early, though.

 

You may well be right about the sacks Von has added to the other guys here, IMO.

[Dopey]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:04 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's just an attempt at pumping up Edmunds.    Edmunds is a great athlete but he is not a play maker.   Rousseau is.    Very different.   They are almost the opposite in this regard.   Groot gets sacks.   He gets his hands on more passes than Edmunds.   He creates turnovers.   He lead the NFL in run stops by a DL last season.    The only thing MORE ridiculous would be to compare Edmunds to Allen or Diggs.  

Does the Edmunds crusade have come here too?!?! 
Holy 💩!!!

[Thurman#1]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:53 AM, NewEra said:

Eh.  I just go by what I see on the field.  He’s within the top 20 DE’s imo.  He’s does it all and affect the fame in ways others can’t.  I think he’s currently our 2nd best player on D behind Milano. 

 

 

Yeah, top twenty DE? I totally agree. Maybe even top fifteen as the season has progressed.

 

Politely disagree about him being our 2nd best behind Milano, though. Poyer, White and Edmunds are right up there, IMO. Hyde certainly too before the injury. Most of those guys are pretty close to maxed out, though, and Groot is improving. A lot.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, top twenty DE? I totally agree. Maybe even top fifteen as the season has progressed.

 

Politely disagree about him being our 2nd best behind Milano, though. Poyer, White and Edmunds are right up there, IMO. Hyde certainly too before the injury. Most of those guys are pretty close to maxed out, though, and Groot is improving. A lot.

Poyer, I can see.  That’s my dude.  But he’s a safety.  
 

edmunds- I wouldn’t argue about who’s better.  Both similar talents playing different positions.  Both stars now.  

 

white-  Rousseau is clearly the better player based on their play this year….and that’s what I’m talking about.  Play this year.  Rousseau has been a game changer.  White hasn’t.  
 

i say this because I’ve focused on solely him and rewatched every snap he’s taken since returning from injury.  He’s made massive strides since last year.  Unless you really focus on him, I don’t think you can see how dominant he’s been.

[Thurman#1]

31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Poyer, I can see.  That’s my dude.  But he’s a safety.  
 

edmunds- I wouldn’t argue about who’s better.  Both similar talents playing different positions.  Both stars now.  

 

white-  Rousseau is clearly the better player based on their play this year….and that’s what I’m talking about.  Play this year.  Rousseau has been a game changer.  White hasn’t.  
 

i say this because I’ve focused on solely him and rewatched every snap he’s taken since returning from injury.  He’s made massive strides since last year.  Unless you really focus on him, I don’t think you can see how dominant he’s been.

 

 

White hasn't this year ... yet. IMO he's trending in that direction and we'll see him get there soon. I could be wrong about that, certainly, but it looks that way to me.

 

And I might even throw DaQuan in there this year, with a bit more time to think. That guy has been playing great the whole year.

 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

White hasn't this year ... yet. IMO he's trending in that direction and we'll see him get there soon. I could be wrong about that, certainly, but it looks that way to me.

 

And I might even throw DaQuan in there this year, with a bit more time to think. That guy has been playing great the whole year.

 

Thumbs up to daquan.  He’s been dominant and exactly what this defense has needed for years.  
 

I hope you’re right about Tre, but I think Rousseau is different.  Agree to disagree 

Edited December 15, 2022 by NewEra

[BullBuchanan]

15 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Lol I don't get you guys. Edmunds is an elite LB. Second person to say this , I don't understand.  If Groot turned into the equivalent of Edmunds at DE, that's a great player

Edmunds is far, far from "elite".  After 5 years he's finally playing at an above average level but he's still not even a top 20 LB. If that's groot's future, we'll need a legitimate #1 EDGE.

Edited December 15, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Edmunds is far, far from "elite".  After 5 years he's finally playing at an above average level but he's still not even a top 20 LB. If that's groot's future, we'll need a legitimate #1 EDGE.

 

There are a lot of former NFL players and analysts who disagree with this. I think I'd trust their opinion over yours.

[BullBuchanan]

14 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

There are a lot of former NFL players and analysts who disagree with this. I think I'd trust their opinion over yours.

There are? Who? I've seen zero people who rank him in the top 20 across every list I've seen and his stats back it up. For all the ballwashing that goes on for Edmunds, he's not even close to the actual elite LB he's playing next to.

18 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

There are a lot of former NFL players and analysts who disagree with this. I think I'd trust their opinion over yours.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-season-s-top-10-off-ball-linebackers-roquan-smith-trade-gives-ravens-tw
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-and-tiers-monson-2022
https://www.scottfujita.com/best-linebackers-in-nfl/
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/ranking-best-linebackers-2022-nfl-season

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/nfl-s-top-10-linebackers-2022

 

[Alphadawg7]

On 12/11/2022 at 6:31 PM, thenorthremembers said:

He is becoming a good starting defensive end rather than just a guy in a rotation.   Elite is a pretty strong term.  Maybe he will be there but right now elite is a long way off.  

 

He is closer to elite than just a good starting DE.  He is on pace for 12 sacks in just his 2nd season after coming in raw as a rookie, and that is after missing 3 games.  He is also excellent against the run, which many of the top pass rushers are not.  

 

Having a guy who is very good at rushing the passer and very good at defending the run is not as common as people think.  Look at who is regarded as the best pass rusher in the NFL out of the front 7 players...Parsons in Dallas.  People drool over an elite pass rusher like Parsons, but he is utterly atrocious against the run and bad teams keep exploiting the Dallas defense to keep games close by running the football.  

 

I will put it this way...is Groot tradeable right now?  I would say he is as close to as untouchable as Diggs and Allen, and he is probably the only such player on the defense right now that the front office 100% would not trade.  And if they were to trade Groot, he would fetch a bounty with his unique build and his growth and production in just his second season.  

 

So while I agree, maybe saying he is "elite" right now is a bit premature, but I just think he is a lot closer to elite than you think he is.  

 

 

[Big Turk]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

There are? Who? I've seen zero people who rank him in the top 20 across every list I've seen and his stats back it up. For all the ballwashing that goes on for Edmunds, he's not even close to the actual elite LB he's playing next to.

 

Matt Bowen for one.

[DrPJax]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Poyer, I can see.  That’s my dude.  But he’s a safety.  
 

edmunds- I wouldn’t argue about who’s better.  Both similar talents playing different positions.  Both stars now.  

 

white-  Rousseau is clearly the better player based on their play this year….and that’s what I’m talking about.  Play this year.  Rousseau has been a game changer.  White hasn’t.  
 

i say this because I’ve focused on solely him and rewatched every snap he’s taken since returning from injury.  He’s made massive strides since last year.  Unless you really focus on him, I don’t think you can see how dominant he’s been.

      Milano is the star of this D. Hyde & poyer as a tandem are elite.  White can’t be compared here as he has played 1 full game and we need to evaluate him mid season next year after a full time period to fully recover. However , He has proven to be a very good #1 corner , played 100% of snaps in the past , so he was more impactful before than a rotational DE. Edmunds is now very good , the d still drops off moreso if Milano is out ( teams ran all over us when he was out in past  seasons and Milano has been very consistent whereas this is by far Edmunds best year ). It’s a Great trend for Edmunds who I think will continue to improve , and the two LBs together are evolving stars. ( parsons from the cowboys is an example of an elite superstar Lb) 
 

     Groot is really taking leaps and he has huge potential. John Fina , played left ot for 10 years for the Bills, so I trust his evaluation as he practiced against Bruce, thinks Groot is really progressing as he is still learning how to use his body as he grows into it. Fina suggests he still needs to continuing working on his speed moves , and thinks he would actually come off the ball faster with a single hand down . So Groot is progressing well and can become a dominant , perhaps elite player but it’s only his second year and he still has areas to grow and needs more counter moves than just his power.  Fina did say he would  like to see him get lower and get his pads lower at times as offensive lineman who do get under his pad level can neutralize him.  Just a way to say he is not elite yet and he shouldn’t be facing expectations of being another Bruce. Miller said he can become dominant and he is having a good year so hopefully his progress continues.
 

     Using a term like elite is HOf talent like Bruce and Reggie White , so he shows potential but sack total alone is not the sole thing  that qualifies an edge player  as elite.   He is perfect for this system and making progress and that’s what you hope for.  Bruce wasn’t elite in his second year , experience plays a huge role in the NFL and he’s getting that while increasing his knowledge. It’s only year two and imo it’s not fair or accurate to say he’s the best player on the D ( I think that was stated here somewhere , but I could be wrong )  as he is growing into the position. It’s great to support players on the team but you have to be aware of Bias and if pros who played see room for improvement I trust that over the TBD scouts. 

[Rocky Landing]

Interesting stat I read about Groot when he was drafted: Had he been drafted into the NBA, instead of the NFL, he would have the largest hands in the NBA-- and probably the strongest. If you watch his limited college highlight reel, a lot of his sacks were done from arm's length where he got a hold of the QB's jersey. We're talking some long, strong arms on Rousseau.

 

He also has exceptional ball skills. In his rookie season (game four, or five, I think?) he intercepted a Mahomes pass from about five yards away. Elite level play.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Rocky Landing

[NewEra]

22 hours ago, DrPJax said:

      Milano is the star of this D. Hyde & poyer as a tandem are elite.  White can’t be compared here as he has played 1 full game and we need to evaluate him mid season next year after a full time period to fully recover. However , He has proven to be a very good #1 corner , played 100% of snaps in the past , so he was more impactful before than a rotational DE. Edmunds is now very good , the d still drops off moreso if Milano is out ( teams ran all over us when he was out in past  seasons and Milano has been very consistent whereas this is by far Edmunds best year ). It’s a Great trend for Edmunds who I think will continue to improve , and the two LBs together are evolving stars. ( parsons from the cowboys is an example of an elite superstar Lb) 
 

     Groot is really taking leaps and he has huge potential. John Fina , played left ot for 10 years for the Bills, so I trust his evaluation as he practiced against Bruce, thinks Groot is really progressing as he is still learning how to use his body as he grows into it. Fina suggests he still needs to continuing working on his speed moves , and thinks he would actually come off the ball faster with a single hand down . So Groot is progressing well and can become a dominant , perhaps elite player but it’s only his second year and he still has areas to grow and needs more counter moves than just his power.  Fina did say he would  like to see him get lower and get his pads lower at times as offensive lineman who do get under his pad level can neutralize him.  Just a way to say he is not elite yet and he shouldn’t be facing expectations of being another Bruce. Miller said he can become dominant and he is having a good year so hopefully his progress continues.
 

     Using a term like elite is HOf talent like Bruce and Reggie White , so he shows potential but sack total alone is not the sole thing  that qualifies an edge player  as elite.   He is perfect for this system and making progress and that’s what you hope for.  Bruce wasn’t elite in his second year , experience plays a huge role in the NFL and he’s getting that while increasing his knowledge. It’s only year two and imo it’s not fair or accurate to say he’s the best player on the D ( I think that was stated here somewhere , but I could be wrong )  as he is growing into the position. It’s great to support players on the team but you have to be aware of Bias and if pros who played see room for improvement I trust that over the TBD scouts. 

My statement of Rousseau being the 2nd best player on the defense this year is based on their play in 2022-

 

i can see why others would say Poyer, Edmunds and Daquan have been better this season.  All 3 have been great this year.  All worthy of the pro bowl (which isn’t saying much, but still, all are having amazing seasons. 
 

I feel the only reason we don’t have the #2 D in the league has been 3rd and long + Dane Jackson not turning his head + Cam Lewis’ one game debacle.  
 

good points on Bruce-  I just disagree that Rousseau isn’t our best DL this year.  Daquan can be the only other DL in consideration imo.  Ed could be….but he just hasn’t had the impact of either Rousseau or Jones.  
 

agree to disagree.  It just shows how much talent we have along the DL.  Beats having Star, Zimmer and Butler out there and the difference is obvious 

 

 

[Mat68]

He is great against the run and developing a rush plan.  He is our best D end now.  To get to where we need to he has to maintain his play.

[BADOLBILZ]

20 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Interesting stat I read about Groot when he was drafted: Had he been drafted into the NBA, instead of the NFL, he would have the largest hands in the NBA-- and probably the strongest. If you watch his limited college highlight reel, a lot of his sacks were done from arm's length where he got a hold of the QB's jersey. We're talking some long, strong arms on Rousseau.

 

He also has exceptional ball skills. In his rookie season (game four, or five, I think?) he intercepted a Mahomes pass from about five yards away. Elite level play.

 

 

 

 

 

His 11 1/8" hands would be among the largest in the NBA for sure......basically the same hand size as Kawahi Leonard who is the player most associate with having the craziest disproportionately large hands in the NBA.............but Giannis has 12" hands so that stat was false.    

 

Rousseau makes a lot of plays that just seem routine to the casual fan but there is nothing routine about reaching out one-handed and snaring a 210# RB on the edge. 

 

As I said when they drafted him........he's not going to wow fans with his bend or burst like a Bruce Smith or Von Miller.........but he is going to make A TON of plays anyway.    

 

The huge first stride that gets OT's off balance followed by his seemingly innate ability to track and level off with QB's in the pocket THEN combined with his reach and giant hands are literally a unique combination.    There aren't any good comps.  

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

His 11 1/8" hands would be among the largest in the NBA for sure......basically the same hand size as Kawahi Leonard who is the player most associate with having the craziest disproportionately large hands in the NBA.............but Giannis has 12" hands so that stat was false.    

 

Rousseau makes a lot of plays that just seem routine to the casual fan but there is nothing routine about reaching out one-handed and snaring a 210# RB on the edge. 

 

As I said when they drafted him........he's not going to wow fans with his bend or burst like a Bruce Smith or Von Miller.........but he is going to make A TON of plays anyway.    

 

The huge first stride that gets OT's off balance followed by his seemingly innate ability to track and level off with QB's in the pocket THEN combined with his reach and giant hands are literally a unique combination.    There aren't any good comps.  

I would say Mario Williams would be closest

[Don Otreply]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:08 PM, Dopey said:

Does the Edmunds crusade have come here too?!?! 
Holy 💩!!!

Yes damn it! All threads are actually about Edmunds, I would have thought everyone knew that by now…, 

[BillsPride12]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:52 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He is closer to elite than just a good starting DE.  He is on pace for 12 sacks in just his 2nd season after coming in raw as a rookie, and that is after missing 3 games.  He is also excellent against the run, which many of the top pass rushers are not.  

 

Having a guy who is very good at rushing the passer and very good at defending the run is not as common as people think.  Look at who is regarded as the best pass rusher in the NFL out of the front 7 players...Parsons in Dallas.  People drool over an elite pass rusher like Parsons, but he is utterly atrocious against the run and bad teams keep exploiting the Dallas defense to keep games close by running the football.  

 

I will put it this way...is Groot tradeable right now?  I would say he is as close to as untouchable as Diggs and Allen, and he is probably the only such player on the defense right now that the front office 100% would not trade.  And if they were to trade Groot, he would fetch a bounty with his unique build and his growth and production in just his second season.  

 

So while I agree, maybe saying he is "elite" right now is a bit premature, but I just think he is a lot closer to elite than you think he is.  

 

 

I can promise you the front office would 100% not trade Matt Milano 

[machine gun kelly]

Milano is the MVP of this defense.  Even more than the closer, Von 

[BillsShredder83]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:12 PM, Big Turk said:

 

He didn't even play in college the year he was drafted...and was super raw the year before that even tho he dominated.

 

When they say the sky is the limit, that is definitely true for him.

Dudes physical frame very raw as well coming out. Hes filled out 10-15lbs i read. He should be able to match that again next offseason, with that frame, he can carry it well. Mario Williams is a great comp IMO

[BADOLBILZ]

37 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I would say Mario Williams would be closest

 

I was a huge Mario fan and I remember thinking that there were going to be two types of teams coming out of that 2006 draft..........the one that got Mario and the losers.    He was the singular great pro prospect from that draft.

 

But Mario was a freak, explosive athlete.   You could see Mario winning his reps, manhandling OL on his way to making plays.    It was impressive to watch.

 

There wasn't a lot of nuance or instinctiveness though and he wasn't a heady player........so his ceiling ended at his physical traits.   Physically he is a top 10 all-time DE talent but he's not even going to be a HOF'er.

 

Rousseau really isn't an explosive athlete.   He has some great natural advantages with his unusual build/length....and has room to grow......but his ceiling to make an impact is not limited to his physical traits in the same way.    

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I was a huge Mario fan and I remember thinking that there were going to be two types of teams coming out of that 2006 draft..........the one that got Mario and the losers.    He was the singular great pro prospect from that draft.

 

But Mario was a freak, explosive athlete.   You could see Mario winning his reps, manhandling OL on his way to making plays.    It was impressive to watch.

 

There wasn't a lot of nuance or instinctiveness though and he wasn't a heady player........so his ceiling ended at his physical traits.   Physically he is a top 10 all-time DE talent but he's not even going to be a HOF'er.

 

Rousseau really isn't an explosive athlete.   He has some great natural advantages with his unusual build/length....and has room to grow......but his ceiling to make an impact is not limited to his physical traits in the same way.    

 

Yea Mario is one of the greatest bull rushers I have ever seen play. But that was his only rush. He was so naturally, physically dominant that he never developed the nuances. He just bull rushed and got home.

 

And I say that as someone, like you, that was a huge Mario fan and appreciate his time as a Bill. 

[Big Turk]

According to PFR, Greg Rousseau has the 5th highest AV of any player in the draft class, at 10, right behind Jamar Chase at 13.  This could turn out to be one of the best Bills value picks of all time.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

It’s his time.

 

He’s going against a 6’7” practice squad player. 
 

 

[bouds]

This pick is really carrying the last couple of Beane drafts, 20/21 look rough for long term starters outside of Greg R.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

It’s his time.

 

He’s going against a 6’7” practice squad player. 
 

 

 

I thought their former starting guard from last season Hakeem Adeniji was starting at RT for Collins?    He was pretty bad at guard but he's been active all season,  not a PS player.   Did he get injured too?

[No_Matter_What]

52 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

According to PFR, Greg Rousseau has the 5th highest AV of any player in the draft class, at 10, right behind Jamar Chase at 13.  This could turn out to be one of the best Bills value picks of all time.

 

 

I don't know what AV is, but Mac Jones is 3rd in this ranking, so...

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, bouds said:

This pick is really carrying the last couple of Beane drafts, 20/21 look rough for long term starters outside of Greg R.

 

 

The mistake Beane has been making is drafting increasingly more for need because the roster has few holes, IMO.

 

That's a recipe for disappointment.

 

But I will say that......in general.........it's much easier to nail a draft when you have needs everywhere.

 

Joe Douglas had a great draft but it might look a lot different if he didn't need everything and therefore have no conflict between need and BPA.

 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I thought their former starting guard from last season Hakeem Adeniji was starting at RT for Collins?    He was pretty bad at guard but he's been active all season,  not a PS player.   Did he get injured too?

Isaiah Prince hinted by Burrow is starting.