Should another relocation cause the Bills to consider building a domed stadium? A Q&A with Bills COO

[inthebuff]

 

TL;DR - Bills COO says no to the Dome and discusses many of the issues related to moving the Bills home game to Detroit because of the big snow event.

 

Paging Mods...if this should be merged into the Stadium thread, please do so.

 

From The Athletic (paywall)

 

Tim Graham

Nov 22, 2022

 

DETROIT — For the second time in eight years, the Buffalo Bills needed to escape a harsh Western New York snowstorm for cozier confines in, of all locales, Ford Field.

This isn’t the type of winter destination that insists visitors pack sunblock and flip-flops, but Ford Field offers shelter not found in Western New York or other Rust Belt markets.

As such, the Motor City is a beacon for desperate NFL wayfarers.

 

Edit: SDS

[Ethan in Cleveland]

They should build a dome regardless of last week's moved game or any future game that needs to be moved.

[billsbackto81]

Could probably have a dome built by the time we read all that.

[WhoTom]

Unless they plan to put a dome over the whole 716, another relocation is irrelevant to the debate.

[SDS]

2 hours ago, inthebuff said:

 

TL;DR - Bills COO says no to the Dome and discusses many of the issues related to moving the Bills home game to Detroit because of the big snow event.

 

Paging Mods...if this should be merged into the Stadium thread, please do so.

 

From The Athletic (paywall)

 

Tim Graham

Nov 22, 2022

 

DETROIT — For the second time in eight years, the Buffalo Bills needed to escape a harsh Western New York snowstorm for cozier confines in, of all locales, Ford Field.

This isn’t the type of winter destination that insists visitors pack sunblock and flip-flops, but Ford Field offers shelter not found in Western New York or other Rust Belt markets.

As such, the Motor City is a beacon for desperate NFL wayfarers.

 

Edit: SDS

do you ever see full articles posted here?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Setting aside the obvious reason of a dome giving our team a major advantage, I just don’t understand the ROI of an open-air stadium.

 

they could build a stadium similar to Lucas Oil for not much more than they are spending now, and could be in the running for all sorts of other major sporting events (even the Super Bowl), and use it for a host of other events. 

[blacklabel]

10 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Setting aside the obvious reason of a dome giving our team a major advantage, I just don’t understand the ROI of an open-air stadium.

 

they could build a stadium similar to Lucas Oil for not much more than they are spending now, and could be in the running for all sorts of other major sporting events (even the Super Bowl), and use it for a host of other events. 

 

I'm with you on the dome. Unfortunately Buffalo isn't likely to host a Super Bowl anytime soon. The city does not meet the requirements for hotels and other accomodations. But besides that, yeah, a dome would mean concerts and other shows year round if they'd want. And they can still play outside, just make it a retractable one. 

 

It's a bummer they don't go with the dome over this odd sense of tradition with weather games. In reality, they get one big snow game once every few seasons. Then there are the super windy games which don't really give an advantage to any team. And then the freezing ones which just make all the contact and the hits hurt even more. Just seems silly to me. Could keep it open in September and October and close it for November thru January. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by blacklabel

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

They should build a dome regardless of last week's moved game or any future game that needs to be moved.

 

As long as it covers the entire WNY area since people would still need to be able to drive to stadium.

 

Neither game would have been held if there was a dome.  There was a driving ban good part of time up to game,

 

No surprise article is from Tim Graham Cracker.

[145B4IDIE]

🙄another dome thread

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, inthebuff said:

 

TL;DR - Bills COO says no to the Dome and discusses many of the issues related to moving the Bills home game to Detroit because of the big snow event.

 

Paging Mods...if this should be merged into the Stadium thread, please do so.

 

From The Athletic (paywall)

 

Tim Graham

Nov 22, 2022

 

DETROIT — For the second time in eight years, the Buffalo Bills needed to escape a harsh Western New York snowstorm for cozier confines in, of all locales, Ford Field.

This isn’t the type of winter destination that insists visitors pack sunblock and flip-flops, but Ford Field offers shelter not found in Western New York or other Rust Belt markets.

As such, the Motor City is a beacon for desperate NFL wayfarers.

 

Edit: SDS

Once again, a having a dome makes no difference if we have a crippling snow storm where no fans, staff, law enforcement, etc… can even get there. 

[muppy]

21 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Setting aside the obvious reason of a dome giving our team a major advantage, I just don’t understand the ROI of an open-air stadium.

 

they could build a stadium similar to Lucas Oil for not much more than they are spending now, and could be in the running for all sorts of other major sporting events (even the Super Bowl), and use it for a host of other events. 

FULL STOP

 

I have never read this before.  Are you telling me a dome is in the similar ballpark of cost as an open air one? No Brainer i think a domed stadium in WNY would be awesome! I just always heard a dome would be waayyy more expensive Hence Plan B as what we see rendered today

 

Whoa.

Edited November 24, 2022 by muppy

[Punching Bag]

11 minutes ago, 145B4IDIE said:

🙄another dome thread

 

Recently hard to tell difference between domers and doomers.

[Mr. WEO]

You gotta give it to the dome-heads: no amount of reality will take away their irrational dream 

[BigAl2526]

Frankly, I would love it if the Bills had a dome.  I think a dome fits the kind of high octane passing offense the Bills like to run with Josh Allen pulling the trigger.  On the other hand it's not a decision that can be made only taking into account fans and football.  There are a whole bunch of people in NY State, particularly down state, who think Buffalo should not have gotten a penny of state money to build a new stadium.  The political climate would not have stood for Buffalo getting a dome.  I think that is the reality of the situation.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Think the Bills COO sits outside in the cold come December home games? 

[BullBuchanan]

No. It's over.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

53 minutes ago, muppy said:

FULL STOP

 

I have never read this before.  Are you telling me a dome is in the similar ballpark of cost as an open air one? No Brainer i think a domed stadium in WNY would be awesome! I just always heard a dome would be waayyy more expensive Hence Plan B as what we see rendered today

 

Whoa.

Lucas oil cost $720M in 2008. In today’s dollars, that comes out to about $996M.

 

The open air stadium the bills are building is like $1.4B!! 

[DJB]

1 hour ago, 145B4IDIE said:

🙄another dome thread

I blame Tremaine Edmunds over this

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, DJB said:

I blame Tremaine Edmunds over this

See?

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Think the Bills COO sits outside in the cold come December home games? 

They're too smart to admit that they may be wrong on this matter. A dome and moving further away from the lake is much too smart

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

They're too smart to admit that they may be wrong on this matter. A dome and moving further away from the lake is much too smart

 

Zombies are not known for their brain matter.

[DJB]

9 minutes ago, Draconator said:

See?

No no the Mexico games are done now

[Draconator]

8 hours ago, DJB said:

No no the Mexico games are done now

wee

[Mickey]

Things I believe in:

 

1. All elections where my candidate loses are "rigged".

2. The moon landing was faked.

3. Fluoride in our drinking water is a commie plot.

4. Trix are not just for kids.

5. I can have my cake and eat it too. 

6. A domed stadium in Buffalo is no more costly to build than an open air stadium.

[Matt_In_NH]

It snowed one day….let’s throw away all the money spent so far blow up the deal with the state and start over.   Panic!!!

[The Wiz]

11 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Unless they plan to put a dome over the whole 716, another relocation is irrelevant to the debate.

 

[North Buffalo]

Find a place in North Buffalo/Tonowanda area near UB... usually a lot less snow... maybe a dome would be nice.???

[inthebuff]

11 hours ago, SDS said:

do you ever see full articles posted here?

 

I haven't noticed.  

[TH3]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

They should build a dome regardless of last week's moved game or any future game that needs to be moved.

If there was a dome in OP last weekend….game still would have been relocated

[WotAGuy]

I don’t give a damn about a dome. I wanna know what I’m supposed to do with all this land I bought near Letchworth Park.  

[Chaos]

I have always been in the no dome camp.  But I have recently reconsidered this.  As the season expands to 18 games, it is more of a war of attrition than ever before.  It seems to be a built in disadvantage to have to spend decemeber and january playing 60% of your games in potentially brutal conditions while, your competitors are playing in comfortable conditions.  Based on the recent history of the Patriots and Dolphins, its is certainly arguable that this does not matter at all.  But I suspect having brutal condition games down the stretch does not really help. 

[HOUSE]

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/bills-rookies-hold-a-snow-brush-for-the-first-time

[bmur66]

How would a dome handle 77” of snow? Serious question. That’s is a lot of weight. 
Also this team doesn’t use the WNY weather to it advantage anyways. I don’t think they like it anymore than the visiting team. They may as well be a dome team.

Whether it is financial or other reasons it has been decided and apparently written in stone so it is what it is. Too bad 😞

[ArtVandalay]

11 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Lucas oil cost $720M in 2008. In today’s dollars, that comes out to about $996M.

 

The open air stadium the bills are building is like $1.4B!! 

By "today's dollars" you are just talking basic time value of money, right? That's not applicable to stadium construction. The Producers Price Index (building materials/supplies) has increased from 120 in 2008 to over 200 since April 2021.

 

I highly doubt Lucas would be under 1 billion given today's costs. 

[Buddo]

Bottom line, is that both games would have had to be moved, regardless if there was a dome or not. Simply too much snow to deal with, alongside all of the associated travel restrictions and other health and safety considerations.

 

I'd also say that the extra money for a dome that can cope with the amount of extra snowfall lake effects bring, isn't really good value for money, if you still aren't going to be able to play, because it causes so much disruption everywhere else.

[ArtVandalay]

15 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

How would a dome handle 77” of snow? Serious question. That’s is a lot of weight. 
Also this team doesn’t use the WNY weather to it advantage anyways. I don’t think they like it anymore than the visiting team. They may as well be a dome team.

Whether it is financial or other reasons it has been decided and apparently written in stone so it is what it is. Too bad 😞

Just fine with the roof constructions they have today, Minnesota is a great comparison, they used a material called ETFE, translucent and super slick. Check it out,  I read about it last week during the storm when this topic came up, pretty cool. 

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a19066/minnesota-viking-football-stadium-roof/

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

By "today's dollars" you are just talking basic time value of money, right? That's not applicable to stadium construction. The Producers Price Index (building materials/supplies) has increased from 120 in 2008 to over 200 since April 2021.

 

I highly doubt Lucas would be under 1 billion given today's costs. 

yeah, I am talking about just time value of money. That said, cost wise, I have to think even with increased construction costs, Lucas would have to be in the ballpark of the price tag the Bills are paying for their open air stadium.  (Also, the PPI seems to reflect the recent radical inflation— would have to think those numbers decrease as the unnatural spike in inflation settles down).

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

There is absolutely no “home field advantage” for the Bills outdoors in inclement winter weather. In fact, there’s more likely a visiting team advantage for those with stronger ground games.  Believing that we have some advantage harkens back to 70s era football. 

[WotAGuy]

11 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Just fine with the roof constructions they have today, Minnesota is a great comparison, they used a material called ETFE, translucent and super slick. Check it out,  I read about it last week during the storm when this topic came up, pretty cool. 

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a19066/minnesota-viking-football-stadium-roof/

 

 

That stadium is remarkably well done. Did not feel like a dome because there was so much light and it had large open concourses. 
 

I just can’t see a dome for multi-purposes in OP; too far away from hotels, restaurants and bars that you would need to draw people to big events.  And the cost to rebuild the infrastructure downtown to make it feasible there would not justify the cost. 
 

You might get a higher level NCAA tournament round there every few years, and maybe a big concert every few years, but there are no regular events big enough to justify the cost of putting a dome downtown, in my opinion. The Sabres would have to play there to make it worth keeping open all winter. 
 

There, I think I have settled the matter for all of us and we can all move on now.  No more dome talk. 
 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by WotAGuy

[ArtVandalay]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

yeah, I am talking about just time value of money. That said, cost wise, I have to think even with increased construction costs, Lucas would have to be in the ballpark of the price tag the Bills are paying for their open air stadium.  (Also, the PPI seems to reflect the recent radical inflation— would have to think those numbers decrease as the unnatural spike in inflation settles down).

Oh I agree I don't think cost was an issue deciding between the two, especially when you consider all the additional accommodations that winter weather and snow removal cause for the outdoor construction and i would totally believe the done could be cheaper at the end of the day as a result, but at least similar in price. 

 

The PPI will drop but it's been over 200 since April 2021, and we are building now and in immediate future. Inflation is here to stay for the next 12-18 months at minimum. Expect the FOMC to push to the Fed Rate to 6.00 next year,  we'll see how high they need to go to make it happen.