Bills sign Dawson Knox to 4-year $53.6 mill extension ($31 mill gtd) through 2026

[Chicken Boo]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Last Friday, I had 3 straight meals at McDonald's.  Lunch, dinner and then Saturday morning breakfast.  I had two McDouble's last night.

 

Why not spring for the double cheese burger?  That extra cheese makes all the difference.

Just now, Warcodered said:

Don't we play on Sunday?

 

Wait, *Sunday Night.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Why not spring for the double cheese burger?  That extra cheese makes all the difference.

 

Wait, *Sunday Night.

 

The McDouble is 2 for $3 by me.

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

A lot of talk of "he is really good, but the play caller, play, QB, etc". But isn't that sort of the point of the people arguing against the Knox contract? Lets say Knox is a top 5 TE. We don' utilize him as a top 5 TE, so why allocated that kind of cash to a really good player in a role that we don't focus on? 

On the Bills of 10 years ago we would certainly bicker about how to get Knox involved. But right now the offense is humming at an elite level, so why change the offense just to get more value out of your contract? 

 

I like Knox. I am hoping he lives up to his valuation. Given the year he has had I am trying not to be too critical, but I also understand other frustrations. I think his valuation will end up being a lot more fair as others renew. Right now Knox (15/148 yards/1 TD) is slightly less productive than McKenzie (17/162 yards/ 3 TD) and slightly more productive than Shakir (6/112 yards/ 1 TD) in the passing game. Knox (273) as taken 101 more snaps than McKenzie (172) and 179 more than Shakir (94)

Pretty much where I’m at with this as well. I didn’t like the contract, not because I don’t think Knox has what it takes to be just outside the 5th best TE in football, but because Allen has never really thrown to his TEs. If Morris came on the field and the offense was unequivocally worse, folks wouldn’t argue the contact, his value would be apparent, but it doesn’t seem we miss much of a beat in the passing game with Morris on the field.
 

You’d like to see Knox jump off the screen with dominating performances, but it doesn’t seem to be the offense’s design, or Allen’s preferred weapon. To that end, I think it is fair to question giving Knox that much money, but if the cap goes up enough to extend other playmakers Allen does lean on, like G Davis, then by all means, enjoy the money, Dawson, and make those periodic big plays when we need them. 

[snamsnoops]

28 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Don't we play on Sunday?

Wish we play on Wednesday!

[teef]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Last Friday, I had 3 straight meals at McDonald's.  Lunch, dinner and then Saturday morning breakfast.  I had two McDouble's last night.

are your poops ever solid?

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

are your poops ever solid?

 

This has taken an interesting twist……unfortunately.  

[Back2Buff]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

Knox coming out party *Sunday night.  You heard it here first.  

 

GB is very good vs TEs

[Mango]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Pretty much where I’m at with this as well. I didn’t like the contract, not because I don’t think Knox has what it takes to be just outside the 5th best TE in football, but because Allen has never really thrown to his TEs. If Morris came on the field and the offense was unequivocally worse, folks wouldn’t argue the contact, his value would be apparent, but it doesn’t seem we miss much of a beat in the passing game with Morris on the field.
 

You’d like to see Knox jump off the screen with dominating performances, but it doesn’t seem to be the offense’s design, or Allen’s preferred weapon. To that end, I think it is fair to question giving Knox that much money, but if the cap goes up enough to extend other playmakers Allen does lean on, like G Davis, then by all means, enjoy the money, Dawson, and make those periodic big plays when we need them. 

The board would go nuts if we lost Davis but spent $15M on Knox. 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

That's 100% what happened, even the commentators discussed it afterwards analyzing the play discussing he thought Diggs was there and let it go. 

 

Here's the pick and Knox pulling back. 

 

 

 

 

 

That is not what the commentators in that clip suggested.  They said Josh Allen was inaccurate with his throw

 

In the endzone view you can see Heyward tip it.  He jumps up with his arms extended and the trajectory of the ball changes after it passes his hand

 

It would have been nice if Knox could have adjusted and made the catch but in no way is "Just last week he (Knox) pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball" an accurate description of that play.  SMH.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

A lot of talk of "he is really good, but the play caller, play, QB, etc". But isn't that sort of the point of the people arguing against the Knox contract? Lets say Knox is a top 5 TE. We don' utilize him as a top 5 TE, so why allocated that kind of cash to a really good player in a role that we don't focus on? 

On the Bills of 10 years ago we would certainly bicker about how to get Knox involved. But right now the offense is humming at an elite level, so why change the offense just to get more value out of your contract? 

 

I like Knox. I am hoping he lives up to his valuation. Given the year he has had I am trying not to be too critical, but I also understand other frustrations. I think his valuation will end up being a lot more fair as others renew. Right now Knox (15/148 yards/1 TD) is slightly less productive than McKenzie (17/162 yards/ 3 TD) and slightly more productive than Shakir (6/112 yards/ 1 TD) in the passing game. Knox (273) as taken 101 more snaps than McKenzie (172) and 179 more than Shakir (94)

 

But here's the thing.  By implication, you're equating Knox productivity with receptions/receiving yards/TDs.

 

Except that he is NOT a TE who primarily runs a route on every play.  He has become one of the best blocking TE in the league as well.  So any reasonable valuation has to take that into account.

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That is not what the commentators in that clip suggested.  They said Josh Allen was inaccurate with his throw

 

In the endzone view you can see Heyward tip it.  He jumps up with his arms extended and the trajectory of the ball changes after it passes his hand

 

It would have been nice if Knox could have adjusted and made the catch but in no way is "Just last week he (Knox) pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball" an accurate description of that play.  SMH.

 

 

 

 

 

But here's the thing.  By implication, you're equating Knox productivity with receptions/receiving yards/TDs.

 

Except that he is NOT a TE who primarily runs a route on every play.  He has become one of the best blocking TE in the league as well.  So any reasonable valuation has to take that into account.

Ok, I’ll credit Knox with the rampant success of our run game…

[HappyDays]

Knox has not had a lot of pure volume production, but he has been incredibly clutch several times this year as a pass catcher and as a blocker. The last play he made was a game winner against our conference rival. I would like us to use him more as a red zone weapon but I'm not going to complain about his usage when we have arguably the best passing offense in the NFL. When his number is called he's making big plays and we use him in every aspect of the offense. That makes him worthy of the contract.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by HappyDays

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

GB is very good vs TEs

 

TE will be the least of their worries on Sunday night and they'll pay dearly for it.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

That is not what the commentators in that clip suggested.  They said Josh Allen was inaccurate with his throw

 

In the endzone view you can see Heyward tip it.  He jumps up with his arms extended and the trajectory of the ball changes after it passes his hand

 

It would have been nice if Knox could have adjusted and made the catch but in no way is "Just last week he (Knox) pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball" an accurate description of that play.  SMH.

 

It looks like he pulls his arms away because he knows he won't get a handle on it (he might have seen it get tipped) and doesn't want to bat it in the air for an INT.  Which happened anyway.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

The board would go nuts if we lost Davis but spent $15M on Knox. 

 

I think it is much easier to find a good WR2 with deep threat capabilities than a TE1 that can be used as a pass catcher and as a blocker. Knox isn't the best at either skill but he is quite good at both. That's a rare skill set. The Texans are probably going to eat some of Brandin Cooks' salary just to trade him for a decent pick. You never see that kind of trade happen for a good TE because teams know how hard they are to find.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

GB is very good vs TEs

 

 Like most of the Packers great passing defensive stats, it's a mirage. They've played a bunch of bad QBs and TEs. They've only faced 1 QB in the Top 15 in passing yards and only 2 in the Top 22(Brady - 6th, Cousins- 16th).

 

 As for TEs they've only played 2 TEs in the Top 20 in TE receiving yards(T. Conklin - 13th, H. Henry - 20th). In Conklins case, all but 90 of his yards are from the 3 Games he played with Flacco at QB, he's averaging 22.5 ypg with Wilson at QB. Hunter Henry was catching balls from both backup QBs(Hoyer left the game with a concussion)against GB.

 

Looks alot like our stats against the pass last year. We played a bunch of teams with bad/young QBs and we were best in the league. But when we played good QBs our defense got toasted.

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

Ok, I’ll credit Knox with the rampant success of our run game…

 

Did I say "run blocking"?   No, you sarcastic little fruit of the Bangaladeshi National Tree, I did not say "run blocking".

[ArtVandalay]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:25 PM, Beck Water said:

 

That is not what the commentators in that clip suggested.  They said Josh Allen was inaccurate with his throw

 

In the endzone view you can see Heyward tip it.  He jumps up with his arms extended and the trajectory of the ball changes after it passes his hand

 

It would have been nice if Knox could have adjusted and made the catch but in no way is "Just last week he (Knox) pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball" an accurate description of that play.  SMH.

 

 

 

 

 

But here's the thing.  By implication, you're equating Knox productivity with receptions/receiving yards/TDs.

 

Except that he is NOT a TE who primarily runs a route on every play.  He has become one of the best blocking TE in the league as well.  So any reasonable valuation has to take that into account.

That clip is the play. If you watched the game after this the commentators dive into the play further and talked about him pulling him arms back thinking it was going to Diggs. 

 

Your last point is false, and this was in my earlier post with metrics other than catches/yards, Knox runs the 8th most routes of any TE, he had far more opportunity, far better QB play, and produces far less. 

 

Honestly I'm floored anyone can think his production is par for the contract he signed, we all know that deal assumes growth, and right now we haven't seen it.  Not saying it won't happen, just commenting on what has.

[Just Jack]

On 10/26/2022 at 4:02 PM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The McDouble is 2 for $3 by me.

 

Get the app and order through it.  I've been getting "Buy one double cheeseburger, get one free" deals on it for a while now.  

[Royale with Cheese]

37 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

Get the app and order through it.  I've been getting "Buy one double cheeseburger, get one free" deals on it for a while now.  

@teefWhy haven’t you helped me out like this?  

[vtnatefootball11]

Bringing this thread back to life after some time has passed from the Knox signing. I took a lot of heat for saying it on this board at the time, but it was a terrible contract then and looks even worse now.  It needs to be talked about how bad of a miss this was by Beane.  He is going to count $14 mil against the cap this year, $20m if we release him... How the heck did Beane let this happen!   His touchdown numbers were inflated that season before we re-signed him, there was no good reason to extend him at that time.  He's never flashed elite talent.  I'm still sick over it.

Edited February 22 by vtnatefootball11

[TheFunPolice]

Knox didn't suddenly become unable to make plays. 

 

We lost Beasley, Brown and Sanders and basically didn't replace them until this year with Kincaid. in 2022 we brought Brown and Beasley out of retirement for a playoff run for crying out loud! 

 

Shakir has made some nice plays, and hopefully he continues to develop. But we forget that we had Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Sanders and Knox. We used to have actual deep threats on the team to open up space.

Edited February 22 by TheFunPolice

[BuffaloRebound]

8 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Bringing this thread back to life after some time has passed from the Knox signing. I took a lot of heat for saying it on this board at the time, but it was a terrible contract then and looks even worse now.  It needs to be talked about how bad of a miss this was by Beane.  

The gift that keeps giving.  He’s due $5m roster bonus in march that’s guaranteed.  Paying him $10m this year to be a glorified Quentin Morris.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Bringing this thread back to life after some time has passed from the Knox signing. I took a lot of heat for saying it on this board at the time, but it was a terrible contract then and looks even worse now.  It needs to be talked about how bad of a miss this was by Beane.  He is going to count $14 mil against the cap this year, $20m if we release him... How the heck did Beane let this happen!  It was so obvious he was going to regress his touchdown numbers were inflated that season before we re-signed him.  He's never flashed elite talent.  I'm still sick over it.

Bragging after an injury plagued season? I think his brother died the year he signed the contract. Also, no one cares if you were right or wrong. 

Edited February 22 by Buffalo_Stampede

[EasternOHBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Bringing this thread back to life after some time has passed from the Knox signing. I took a lot of heat for saying it on this board at the time, but it was a terrible contract then and looks even worse now.  It needs to be talked about how bad of a miss this was by Beane.  He is going to count $14 mil against the cap this year, $20m if we release him... How the heck did Beane let this happen!  It was so obvious he was going to regress his touchdown numbers were inflated that season before we re-signed him.  He's never flashed elite talent.  I'm still sick over it.

 

It wouldn't be an issue if the Von contract wasn't hurting us and we weren't in a transitional year. The microscope naturally moves onto those players who haven't lived up to their deals, and Knox has been dealing with both loss and battling through injuries. Let's ease up on the dramatic Knox contract talk.

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bragging after an injury plagued season? I think his brother died the year he signed the contract. Also, no one cares if you were right or wrong. 

 

You basically said the same thing I did... JINX!!!

[TheFunPolice]

I still think he can get back to where he was an be a fairly consistent playmaker. 

 

We NEED more threats at WR. It doesn't have to be Mike Evans, although that would be awesome. Brown and Beasley were sort of mid-level guys and really had some great times here with Allen. 

Edited February 22 by TheFunPolice

[uticaclub]

Even before Knox's injuries and personal tragedies, the contract seemed high but we were told that's the way the TE position is headed. Right now Knox is the 5th highest-paid TE in the league & he’ll probably be the Bills 5th target on offense next year

Diggs
Cook
Kincaid
Shakir/New Guy
Knox?

[vtnatefootball11]

Injury plagued?! Try being replaced by a rookie that we took in the first round because Knox was a not an impact player to begin with.  You are forgetting he didn't live up to the contract last year either, (and never has).  He got paid top 5 TE money! Only Kittle, Andrews and Kelce will make more than him this coming season (and like barely more).  And he's always had some durability questions marks, that's part of the issue with the contract!

Edited February 22 by vtnatefootball11

[Warriorspikes51]

10 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Knox didn't suddenly become unable to make plays. 

 

We lost Beasley, Brown and Sanders and basically didn't replace them until this year with Kincaid. in 2022 we brought Brown and Beasley out of retirement for a playoff run for crying out loud! 

 

Shakir has made some nice plays, and hopefully he continues to develop. But we forget that we had Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Sanders and Knox. We used to have actual deep threats on the team to open up space.

 

That was such a strong 4 WR set.  I hope Beane outdoes himself over the next few months

[TheFunPolice]

Every time I watch SF, Kittle does close to nothing. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Injury plagued?! Try being replaced by a rookie that we took in the first round because Knox was a not an impact player to begin with.  You are forgetting he didn't live up to the contract last year either, (and never has).  He got paid top 5 TE money! Only Kelce will make more than him this coming season.  And he's always had some durability questions marks, that's part of the issue with the contract!

I don't think any of that is true. I don't think he was the highest paid when he got his contract, when that happens you're not going to suddenly be higher paid than people as time goes on, more people pass you.

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

That was such a strong 4 WR set.  I hope Beane outdoes himself over the next few months

 

For sure! No wonder we moved the ball at will. People forget just how good Brown, Sanders and Beasley were as compliments to Diggs. Suddenly Knox was open all the time too. 

[Don Otreply]

30 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

Knox didn't suddenly become unable to make plays. 

 

We lost Beasley, Brown and Sanders and basically didn't replace them until this year with Kincaid. in 2022 we brought Brown and Beasley out of retirement for a playoff run for crying out loud! 

 

Shakir has made some nice plays, and hopefully he continues to develop. But we forget that we had Diggs, Brown, Beasley, Sanders and Knox. We used to have actual deep threats on the team to open up space.

This, except we only replaced the Beasley part of those losses with Kincaid,  Shakir is the new 3/4 WR, replacing Davis…,  we still don’t have the Brown or Sanders replacement, this needs to be addressed this off season, jmo. 

Edited February 22 by Don Otreply

[Warriorspikes51]

I'm not the biggest fan of Knox, but the guy was a very solid red zone target in 2021 and 2022.  He also has 6 Playoff TD's 
 

[vtnatefootball11]

Just now, Warcodered said:

I don't think any of that is true. I don't think he was the highest paid when he got his contract, when that happens you're not going to suddenly be higher paid than people as time goes on, more people pass you.

 

I edited it, to include Kittle and Andrews. It's true.

 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/salaries/breakdown/tight-end/

 

10 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I still think he can get back to where he was an be a fairly consistent playmaker. 

 

We NEED more threats at WR. It doesn't have to be Mike Evans, although that would be awesome. Brown and Beasley were sort of mid-level guys and really had some great times here with Allen. 

 

Exactly that's my point!  His ceiling was a fairly consistent playmaker if he has enough support around him, why did we pay him elite TE money?! It is a disgusting contract any way you look at it, even getting full leniency for injuries, death of his brother etc. It's awful, awful. GM malpractice really.  Beane has been so damn good it's just shocking, that's why I can't get over it.  Miller was an elite player and it was risky contract but at least I understand the roll of the dice there.  

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

This, except we only replaced the Beasley part of those losses, Shakir is the new 3/4 WR, replacing Davis…,  we still don’t have the Brown or Sanders replacement, this needs to be addressed this off season, jmo. 

 

we REALLY need some speed at WR.

 

It feels like we never hit a deep ball anymore, and it used to be a big part of the offense. 

1 minute ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

I edited it, to include Kittle and Andrews. It's true.

 https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/salaries/breakdown/tight-end/

 

 

Exactly that's my point!  His ceiling was a fairly consistent playmaker if he has enough support around him, why did we pay him elite TE money?! It is a disgusting contract any way you look at it, even getting full leniency for injuries, death of his brother etc. It's awful, awful. GM malpractice really.  Beane has been so damn good it's just shocking, that's why I can't get over it.  Miller was an elite player and it was risky contract but at least I understand the roll of the dice there.  

 

I feel like I've never seen Kittle have a big game

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I don't think any of that is true. I don't think he was the highest paid when he got his contract, when that happens you're not going to suddenly be higher paid than people as time goes on, more people pass you.

 

Yeah, he's 16th in Base Salary this year: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/base/tight-end/

 

And 5th in total cap hit: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/tight-end/

 

I know at one point the Bills were undefeated in games Knox scored at least 1 TD. Something to be said for that and our offense clicking when we can get him the ball.

[Warriorspikes51]

7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

For sure! No wonder we moved the ball at will. People forget just how good Brown, Sanders and Beasley were as compliments to Diggs. Suddenly Knox was open all the time too. 

 

IF we're going to keep Diggs, we need to find a way to add 2 more legit playmakers to go along with Shakir 

Diggs

C. Sutton

Franklin

Shakir  - Slot 
C. Samuel
Shorter 

Something along these lines 
 

Edited February 22 by Warriorspikes51

[BuffaloRebound]

Kind of amazing that we won 6 games in a row at end of year and got 2 seed when you look at our cap.  Miller and Tre are done, Milano 2nd major injury of his 6 year career, Knox is now a nice #2 Tight End, and Diggs was playing like #2 WR second half of year.  5 of our top 7 cap hits are either non-producing or under-performing their contracts.  

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

IF we're going to keep Diggs, we need to find a way to add 2 more legit playmakers to go along with Shakir 

 

Evans and a rookie would be great. Or the 2024 versions of Sanders and Brown (not sure who that would be) who could be brought in for a reasonable price. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Even before Knox's injuries and personal tragedies, the contract seemed high but we were told that's the way the TE position is headed. Right now Knox is the 5th highest-paid TE in the league & he’ll probably be the Bills 5th target on offense next year

Diggs
Cook
Kincaid
Shakir/New Guy
Knox?

I think he’ll be a redzone target and blocker moving forward. I don’t think he’s going to live up to the contract, but that’s easy to see today.