Bills sign Dawson Knox to 4-year $53.6 mill extension ($31 mill gtd) through 2026

[ArtVandalay]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

? Last week no Ints

That post is like 3 weeks old

9 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Was his game winning TD against the Chiefs frustrating for you to watch? 

The post is like 3 weeks old dude.  It's not about last week's game. 

[TheWeatherMan]

1 minute ago, ArtVandalay said:

That post is like 3 weeks old

The post is like 3 weeks old dude.  It's not about last week's game. 

Doesn’t fit your agenda so it doesn’t count…gotcha.  

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, TheWeatherMan said:

Doesn’t fit your agenda so it doesn’t count…gotcha.  

What are you even talking about.  Yes, Knox is a frustrating player that makes spectacular grabs but also has many lapses and is not a consistent threat and has poor metrics. 

 

It was a great catch and play.  He now has 148 yards this season.  Looking forward to the $13MM/YR guy to get his first 50 yard game this year.  

[StHustle]

18 hours ago, Bandito said:

I know he has had a lot of personal issues with the passing of his brother. RIP

 

However, he has not lived up to the new contract. I don't think he is an elite tight end, despite us giving him elite TE $ 

He must be on your fantasy team

[Bangarang]

What kind of shampoo and conditioner does Knox use?

[GunnerBill]

44 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

What are you even talking about.  Yes, Knox is a frustrating player that makes spectacular grabs but also has many lapses and is not a consistent threat and has poor metrics. 

 

Which "mertics" are poor? He simply isn't being thrown at enough. 

[DaggersEOD]

17 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

This exactly.  The offense is doing great.  The team is winning.

That is all that matters.

 

Film is showing that Dawson Knox is being used way more as a blocker this year.  

His lack of production is not due to poor play, injuries or mental issues involving his brother.

 

At some point, defenses are likely to adjust to what the Bills are doing.  That is when Ken Dorsey can switch things up, and start using the Tight End more in the passing game.  It's great to have something we can pivot to.

 

Exactly! The O scheme is like a developing story or a script, that plays out game to game. In order for the last part to work, all the previous parts have to be played out. 
 

You can’t break tendencies until after you develop them. 

 

For instance, in ‘20 Beas/Davis combo route was unstoppable, but by the playoffs, Beas was worn out and it wasn’t available when we needed it. In ‘21, they held that package until the playoffs, only breaking it out when they really needed a drive. (Whenever a drive started with a Beas catch, we always scored). 
 

In previous drought years, we only had MAYBE 1 good package. At times, we’d start out fast but always fade down the stretch as Ds figured us out and we had no talent/packages to pivot to. 

 
Thanks for bringing that point up!

 

GO BILLS!

[Maynard]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which "mertics" are poor? He simply isn't being thrown at enough. 

Maybe that foot injury is a little more worse than advertised? Dunno…

[ArtVandalay]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which "mertics" are poor? He simply isn't being thrown at enough. 

You can read my previous post detailing his route run metrics. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

That post is like 3 weeks old

The post is like 3 weeks old dude.  It's not about last week's game. 

 

Nice way to answer the question what you're talking about

Your post was Oct 8 so you must be talking about the Ravens game.  There was 1 interception off a ball tipped at the LOS. 

 

Still doesn't explain what you're talking about with "Just last week he (Knox) pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball" as that's nowhere near what happened.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 minutes ago, Bandito said:

15 rec

148 yards

1 TD 

Thus far this season. He is a fine player but per his contract he is about to be paid like a top flight TE. He is not that player. We over paid

 

 

 

Perhaps - but by how much?  

 

Jonnu Smith makes 12.5 AAV, same with Hunter Henry.  Evan Engram got 9M AAV.  Will Dissly got 8M AAV.  Gesicki and Schulz are both UFAs after this year and both probably are in that same realm.   

 

Statistically he doesn't jump off the paper this year - a couple of leg injuries probably don't help there.  Needs to get more involved in the red zone, and i think playcalling will trend in that direction over the course of the season.  

 

Target share wise - Running back targets are up from 15.4% to 22.1% this year.  TE targets are at 12.8% vs 13.3% a year ago.  Diggs target share is up this year as well from 26.3 to 27.7% (Continuing on the same rate of about 39 PAs per game, Diggs is on pace for 183 targets which approaches Kupp territory). 

 

My thoughts?  It's early in the season, and largely a fluid situation.  We're using the backs more because teams are letting us do it.   

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

You can read my previous post detailing his route run metrics. 

 

Your previous post "detailing his route run metrics" says this: "He's continually poor in yards per route run (32nd this year,  22nd last year, 31st year prior)"

 

Since that's not a metric available on NFL.com or pro-football-reference, perhaps you could explain what it means and why you think it's important when someone asks "what metrics are poor?"  What does that even mean?

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Nice way to answer the question what you're talking about

Your post was Oct 8 so you must be talking about the Ravens game.  There was 1 interception off a ball tipped at the LOS. 

 

Still doesn't explain what you're talking about with "Just last week he (Knox) pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball" as that's nowhere near what happened.

That's 100% what happened, even the commentators discussed it afterwards analyzing the play discussing he thought Diggs was there and let it go. 

 

Here's the pick and Knox pulling back. 

 

 

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Knox is a great young player and he'll get his catches this season.

 

Not worried at all. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[eball]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:06 PM, ArtVandalay said:

It's his fault, his whole career he's made spectacular grabs but can't make routine plays. 

 

He's run the 8th most routes of any TE in the league. Last year he ran the 8th most routes of any TE. He gets plenty of opportunity in the passing game. He's continually poor in yards per route run (32nd this year,  22nd last year, 31st year prior)... unless we are to say Josh is to blame?

 

Just last week he pulled him arms back and gave the defense an INT instead of just catching the ball. 

 

I like Knox, i do, but he is a frustrating player. 

 

It's a long year lots of football to be played, but blows my mind how sensitive people are to any criticism of a guy that hasn't produced and recently signed a monster contract.

 

Are you high?

[RiotAct]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

Knox is a great young player and he'll get his catches this season.

 

Not worried at all. 

he’s already made a few huge grabs for us this season so far, including the game winning TD at Kansas City!

[TheFunPolice]

2 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

he’s already made a few huge grabs for us this season so far, including the game winning TD at Kansas City!

 

exactly! Knox is a stud! 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, Bandito said:

15 rec

148 yards

1 TD 

Thus far this season. He is a fine player but per his contract he is about to be paid like a top flight TE. He is not that player. We over paid

 

 

 

Those numbers are a result of targets not a result of Dawson Knox. He has thrown 75% of the balls thrown his way. 

[billsfan1959]

Football Ousider TE Rankings

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Are you high?

 

I will be in 45 minutes.  

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Bandito said:

He still isn't a top echelon TE. Though he is about to be paid like one. He is a meddling TE and we got duped by how many TDs he scored last year to pay him a ton. TDs are fluky as we are seeing this season with him. I am hoping he picks it up the rest of the way.

 

It is as if you have no idea at all about how to measure a player's worth...

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, Bandito said:

 

I do. And he isn't a top TE in the league, but is going to be paid like one. I'd like to see a bigger sample size before giving him all that $ that we could spend smartly elsewhere. Take off your rose colored glasses.

 

No, you clearly don't. You just spew information that shows nothing more than a shallow understanding of the ways in which the value of a TE is measured.

 

But hey, you do you and carry on your crusade.

[Bangarang]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

No, you clearly don't. You just spew information that shows nothing more than a shallow understanding of the ways in which the value of a TE is measured.

 

But hey, you do you and carry on your crusade.

Blocking TEs don’t make the money he’ll be making.
 

The reality is that in order to get a return on this investment he’s going to need a lot more usage in the passing game. 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Bandito said:

 

Facts are on my side. Try using facts instead of emotion when criticizing someone. Good luck out there. Go Buffalo

 

You sound kind of emotional..

 

[teef]

21 minutes ago, Bandito said:

 

I do. And he isn't a top TE in the league, but is going to be paid like one. I'd like to see a bigger sample size before giving him all that $ that we could spend smartly elsewhere. Take off your rose colored glasses.

have you thought about starting a podcast with @ArtVandalayand @EffKCChiefs?  you could call it the think tank.  it would be marvelous.  

[teef]

Just now, Bandito said:

 

It could be called Facts and Reason instead of Homerism.

oh yeah...the three of you scream reason.

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, Bandito said:

I laid out facts as to why he is not an elite TE and did not warrant a big contract. You were upset about it and said I have no idea how any of it works. My take was using facts. You use emotion which is never a good sign. It is very juvenile. Enjoy being on the wrong side of this one and Go Bills

 

Why are you so angry?

[teef]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Why are you so angry?

he tends to take things a bit to personally around here.  really no need, but the internet is hard for some.

[Warcodered]

Knox is great, lost in the shuffle of all this sudden hate is that the idea that he's about to be paid like one of the top TEs in the league is that he's not.

 

He didn't top/reset the market, there's a bunch of guys ahead of him when he signed the contract, in a year or two he'll be in the middle of the pack.

[GunnerBill]

51 minutes ago, Bandito said:

He still isn't a top echelon TE. Though he is about to be paid like one. He is a meddling TE and we got duped by how many TDs he scored last year to pay him a ton. TDs are fluky as we are seeing this season with him. I am hoping he picks it up the rest of the way.

 

He is the 7th best paid Tight End in football. Who is beneath him and not on a rookie deal who you think is better? He is paid right around his value. 

[TheWeatherMan]

22 minutes ago, Bandito said:

 

It could be called Facts and Reason instead of Homerism.

Those who are legally insane also think they are truly reasonable and factual.  

[TheWeatherMan]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He is the 7th best paid Tight End in football. Who is beneath him and not on a rookie deal who you think is better? He is paid right around his value. 

Stop with your homerisms, you are now banned from the @Banditofactual and reasonable podcast. 

[TheBrownBear]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He is the 7th best paid Tight End in football. Who is beneath him and not on a rookie deal who you think is better? He is paid right around his value. 

And we still have to remember that he was a low floor/high ceiling project who has improved each and every year (book is still out on this season as there's 11 games to play)?  We aren't just paying for what he was in his first three seasons, but who he can (and I believe will) become in the next 4-5.

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, Bandito said:

15 catches

148 yards

1 TD

 

His production does not warrant being paid in the top echelon of the league. We need more production from him. Comparing does not matter. Other TE's are over valued as well and are way over paid too.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Warcodered

[TheWeatherMan]

Just now, Bandito said:

The Bills paid him after 1 good season. 

 

He only has 1 TD so far. The Bills, like many other teams over paid for players who had a fluky good year. We see it all the time in free agency.

You might be jumping the gun on this champ. He’s 7 games into a season in which he lost his brother in the offseason, just scored the game winning TD against our #1 nemesis and you want to claim with 100% certainty that Beane signed him to an awful contract which hasn’t even started yet.  Please sit in the corner for 10 minutes and actually think about what you post.  

[blacklabel]

4 minutes ago, Bandito said:

I am sorry you can't handle the truth. Just pointing out facts. He has not lived up to expectations this year after a stellar year last year. TE TD production is fluky and it seems he was paid according to his TD production last year.

 

You realize his production isn't 100% on him, right? It depends on how involved in the game plan he is and what Dorsey has dialed up for him and who they're facing that week. 

 

On top of that the guy has been playing injured and with a heavy heart after the tragic loss of his little brother. I'm willing to cut him some friggin' slack right now. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by blacklabel

[TheBrownBear]

4 minutes ago, Bandito said:

The Bills paid him after 1 good season. 

 

He only has 1 TD so far this season to go along with 148 receiving yards. The Bills, like many other teams over paid for players who had a fluky good year. We see it all the time in free agency.

I think those who disagree with you, myself included, would point to the overwhelming success of the passing game this year.  Knox is a part of that.  He's a legitimate weapon who teams have to account for which helps open up the entire field for all of our other playmakers as well.  Do you really think you could put a Tommy Sweeney in there with zero dropoff?  

 

I agree with you that the production hasn't been there yet this season, but I view that as more of a usage issue than anything performance based.  But we've already seen Knox's importance and reliability with his huge grabs against KC and Baltimore that helped us win those games.  I suspect we will see a bump in production in the near future.  If not, and he continues on this current pace and posts 320 receiving yards, then you can come back in here and take a victory lap.

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, Bandito said:

15 catches

148 yards

1 TD

 

His production does not warrant being paid in the top echelon of the league. We need more production from him. Comparing does not matter. Other TE's are over valued as well and are way over paid too.

 

 

No offense, but man I hate this logic.  Its clear people in this thread don't understand the job a TE does out there.  It's a lot more than just offensive stats.  Anyone solely focusing on Knox stats doesn't understand what a complete TE does.  But thats just part of why I hate this logic...

 

Bills have the #1 offense in the NFL.  Josh Allen is on pace to shatter...not break...but utterly shatter the NFL record for most yards in a season.  Current record is just over 5500 yards, Allen is on pace to break it by more than 800 yards with a 6300 yard season.  What do you expect Allen to do?   Up his pace to 7000 yards to make sure Knox gets an extra 700 yards to satisfy the contract expectations? 

 

Otherwise, what do you want Josh to do?  Pass less to Diggs and Davis just inflate Knox stats to make you feel better about his contract?  If our offense was struggling and we didn't have playmakers everywhere, then yeah, why aren't we getting more production from a guy capable of more would be a legit question.  

 

But this board is impossible.  No matter how good we play, they want to find something to complain about.  We are on a historic pace on offense...yet people freaking out we don't get more rushing yards or more yards to a TE.  Knox is doing exactly what he is being asked to do.  

 

NOTE:  I said ALL offseason...not only would Knox NOT reach last years level of production, but its likely going to go down.  Not because he was not capable, but because we were loaded offensively.  If Knox needed to be featured more as a receiving threat, he is totally capable of being that guy who could step up and do that.  

 

I also find this ironic given the last time the Bills were on the field Knox literally won the game for us and likely the end result of that win will be the #1 seed in the playoffs.  

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Bandito said:

15 catches

148 yards

1 TD

 

His production does not warrant being paid in the top echelon of the league. We need more production from him. Comparing does not matter. Other TE's are over valued as well and are way over paid too.

 

You can't catch the balls that are not thrown. 

[todd]

13 minutes ago, Bandito said:

I am sorry you can't handle the truth. Just pointing out facts. He has not lived up to expectations this year after a stellar year last year. TE TD production is fluky and it seems he was paid according to his TD production last year.

facts: Knox is clutch. We’re not even halfway into the season. His blocking is superb. He’s versatile. He’s a receiving threat. You are on a silly crusade.

 

These are facts. Deal with them.