UKBillFan Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Just now, Doc said: I'm sure that's what they'll try to use, but if she doesn't remember it, their DNA was there and there was trauma, that won't help them much. Isn't the issue that it's "he said, she said"? The only evidence that we're aware of regarding the victim not remembering anything is because she says so. Presumably, this is where witnesses will come in, to either verify she seemed out of it or she came across as concious and able to make decisions. Though both sides seem to have witnesses saying opposing things so it could be a case of "he said, she said" again. I'm not saying she's lying, but in the court of law it is a case of innocent until proven guilty, so the prosecution will have to convince the judge (and/or jury) beyong reasonable doubt that she was not in a state to make decisions, was taken into a side room, and was raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: Isn't the issue that it's "he said, she said"? The only evidence that we're aware of regarding the victim not remembering anything is because she says so. Presumably, this is where witnesses will come in, to either verify she seemed out of it or she came across as concious and able to make decisions. Though both sides seem to have witnesses saying opposing things so it could be a case of "he said, she said" again. I'm not saying she's lying, but in the court of law it is a case of innocent until proven guilty, so the prosecution will have to convince the judge (and/or jury) beyong reasonable doubt that she was not in a state to make decisions, was taken into a side room, and was raped. True it's her word against theirs, but the trauma suggests she was raped. And as far as witnesses, the only ones I've heard are those who said that she told people she was 18 and that Araiza had left the party before the gang raped occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Just now, Doc said: True it's her word against theirs, but the trauma suggests she was raped. And as far as witnesses, the only ones I've heard are those who said that she told people she was 18 and that Araiza had left the party before the gang raped occurred. I imagine there must be more witnesses from within the party itself. It must be difficult for all concerned waiting for a decision to be made, which probably led to the civil charge being made when it looked like Araiza was going to become a cult figure at the Bills if not in the entire NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said: I imagine there must be more witnesses from within the party itself. It must be difficult for all concerned waiting for a decision to be made, which probably led to the civil charge being made when it looked like Araiza was going to become a cult figure at the Bills if not in the entire NFL. Maybe there are, which is why criminal charges haven't been filed against anyone in almost 11 months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doc said: Maybe there are, which is why criminal charges haven't been filed against anyone in almost 11 months. From the little I heard, apparently there were several eyewitnesses at the party that dispute her version of events. How reliable they were and how much they are trying to protect the players and/or friends is the question. The worst look for her would be if it came out she willingly went into the room. Then it would show intent on her part Edited September 18, 2022 by Big Turk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Big Turk said: From the little I heard, apparently there were several eyewitnesses at the party that dispute her version of events. How reliable they were and how much they are trying to protect the players and/or friends is the question. The worst look for her would be if it came out she willingly went into the room. Then it would show intent on her part As long as she knew what was being planned in the room, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 9 hours ago, UKBillFan said: Isn't the issue that it's "he said, she said"? The only evidence that we're aware of regarding the victim not remembering anything is because she says so. Presumably, this is where witnesses will come in, to either verify she seemed out of it or she came across as concious and able to make decisions. Though both sides seem to have witnesses saying opposing things so it could be a case of "he said, she said" again. I'm not saying she's lying, but in the court of law it is a case of innocent until proven guilty, so the prosecution will have to convince the judge (and/or jury) beyong reasonable doubt that she was not in a state to make decisions, was taken into a side room, and was raped. ill continue to say I think a lot of casual observers to this case lump what seem to be two incidents together. Araiza allegedly consensually engaged in a sex act with her long before the alleged gang rape. there seems to be no dispute of the initial incident. For the latter the closest we have is that she initially said she had no idea who was involved while he says he never even entered the house, had left the party and claims to have witnesses. Unless there’s a major surprise yet to be revealed, we likely do not see araiza face further consequences. There very well could be surprises still. 8 hours ago, Big Turk said: From the little I heard, apparently there were several eyewitnesses at the party that dispute her version of events. How reliable they were and how much they are trying to protect the players and/or friends is the question. The worst look for her would be if it came out she willingly went into the room. Then it would show intent on her part she could willingly walk in a room and either not give consent or not be able to consent. as an araiza thread though, he’s not been solidly placed in the room himself yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, NoSaint said: ill continue to say I think a lot of casual observers to this case lump what seem to be two incidents together. Araiza allegedly consensually engaged in a sex act with her long before the alleged gang rape. there seems to be no dispute of the initial incident. For the latter the closest we have is that she initially said she had no idea who was involved while he says he never even entered the house, had left the party and claims to have witnesses. Unless there’s a major surprise yet to be revealed, we likely do not see araiza face further consequences. There very well could be surprises still. she could willingly walk in a room and either not give consent or not be able to consent. as an araiza thread though, he’s not been solidly placed in the room himself yet though. And what if all parties were drunk? Would that make none of them able to consent? But the guy still takes the L for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, Big Turk said: And what if all parties were drunk? Would that make none of them able to consent? But the guy still takes the L for it? im not sure that an alleged violent gang rape is the spot to make the argument but if you want to go down that path that’s your prerogative. I’d pick my spot somewhere that better lends itself to that discussion, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, NoSaint said: ill continue to say I think a lot of casual observers to this case lump what seem to be two incidents together. Araiza allegedly consensually engaged in a sex act with her long before the alleged gang rape. there seems to be no dispute of the initial incident. For the latter the closest we have is that she initially said she had no idea who was involved while he says he never even entered the house, had left the party and claims to have witnesses. Unless there’s a major surprise yet to be revealed, we likely do not see araiza face further consequences. There very well could be surprises still. In her diary which she wrote the next day, she never said that the same guy who had sex with her led her inside and/or into the room. That's an important piece of insight. She didn't have to know what his identity was, just that it was the same person. She couldn't even say that. Edited September 19, 2022 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 23 hours ago, UKBillFan said: I imagine there must be more witnesses from within the party itself. It must be difficult for all concerned waiting for a decision to be made, which probably led to the civil charge being made when it looked like Araiza was going to become a cult figure at the Bills if not in the entire NFL. there appears to be two separate incidents 1. She did something with Matt that she might remember more of. 2. a second incident occurred where she had sex with multiple people. what complicates this further is her activity on prior days. I don’t know how long sperm can last inside of her showing sex with people who were not at this party but she hooked up with a day or two before. another factor is her appearance of being sober or not. If she didn’t come off as being an obviously clear as day drunk, many might have viewed her conduct as willing. many witnesses are raising questions into her story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 12:16 PM, Taro Nimbus said: So basically, she’s just a slut then. Is there any new developments on the case? It's not okay for anyone to be raped; even sluts. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 I just met Araiza in the lobby of the Courtyard at the airport. He was sitting with a couple of guys, just hanging out. A few fans came up and asked for selfies. I'm not a selfie guy. He was wearing a Bills cap with, of course, the standing buffalo. He was relaxed and smiling. He said he's doing well, and his parents are happy. He said all is good when your parents are happy. I told him he's the subject of debate around here about the best Bills punter of all time, and that the young guys around here have to explain that it isn't Moorman. One of his companions sat there, nodding his head and smiling. Man's been through a lot, and probably deservedly so. Many think he deserves greater punishment. He'll take what the system imposes on him and move on, and I'm happy for him if he finds some peace. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 55 minutes ago, FireChans said: I just met Araiza in the lobby of the Courtyard at the airport. He was sitting with a couple of guys, just hanging out. A few fans came up and asked for selfies. I'm not a selfie guy. He was wearing a Bills cap with, of course, the standing buffalo. He was relaxed and smiling. He said he's doing well, and his parents are happy. He said all is good when your parents are happy. I told him he's the subject of debate around here about the best Bills punter of all time, and that the young guys around here have to explain that it isn't Moorman. One of his companions sat there, nodding his head and smiling. Man's been through a lot, and probably deservedly so. Many think he deserves greater punishment. He'll take what the system imposes on him and move on, and I'm happy for him if he finds some peace. I am not sure this will make the Netflix special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 17 hours ago, NoSaint said: ill continue to say I think a lot of casual observers to this case lump what seem to be two incidents together. Araiza allegedly consensually engaged in a sex act with her long before the alleged gang rape. there seems to be no dispute of the initial incident. For the latter the closest we have is that she initially said she had no idea who was involved while he says he never even entered the house, had left the party and claims to have witnesses. Unless there’s a major surprise yet to be revealed, we likely do not see araiza face further consequences. There very well could be surprises still. Based on CA statutory rape law, Araiza can face a misdemeanor statutory rape charge. Even if he had reason to believe she was 18 or older, even if she told him she was 18, even if she had sex with him consensually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, K-9 said: Based on CA statutory rape law, Araiza can face a misdemeanor statutory rape charge. Even if he had reason to believe she was 18 or older, even if she told him she was 18, even if she had sex with him consensually. That’s not true in California They do have mistaken age defense… And it’s a lot more viable if she told a lot of people she’s of age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) Just now, Buffalo716 said: That’s not true in California They do have mistaken age defense… And it’s a lot more viable if she told a lot of people she’s of age I understand all that. But the potential for Araiza to face a misdemeanor charge is still there under CA law. Edited September 19, 2022 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, K-9 said: Read the statute. Everything I’ve read is what I’m saying If you have something that says different post it Mistake of Age Defense This is the defense that the person who allegedly committed statutory rape reasonably believed that the alleged victim was over the age of consent. Not all states allow this as a defense, but some do. In the states where it is allowed, it is allowed under what’s known as mens rea, meaning that the defendant did not have the information necessary to have the intent to commit the crime. In California, mistake of age has been a defense to statutory rape since 1964. Mistake of Age Can Be an Affirmative Defense In California, mistake of age is not an affirmative defense – but it is in other states. To be an affirmative defense means that the defendant has the burden of proving that they thought the person was of age. In California, where it is not an affirmative defense, the prosecutor must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the alleged perpetrator knew the alleged victim was not of a legal age to consent. A quick legal search The burden of proof is on the accuser in California Edited September 19, 2022 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Everything I’ve read is what I’m saying If you have something that says different post it Mistake of Age Defense This is the defense that the person who allegedly committed statutory rape reasonably believed that the alleged victim was over the age of consent. Not all states allow this as a defense, but some do. In the states where it is allowed, it is allowed under what’s known as mens rea, meaning that the defendant did not have the information necessary to have the intent to commit the crime. In California, mistake of age has been a defense to statutory rape since 1964. Mistake of Age Can Be an Affirmative Defense In California, mistake of age is not an affirmative defense – but it is in other states. To be an affirmative defense means that the defendant has the burden of proving that they thought the person was of age. In California, where it is not an affirmative defense, the prosecutor must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the alleged perpetrator knew the alleged victim was not of a legal age to consent. A quick legal search The burden of proof is on the accuser in California I understand all of that. But the potential remains for a misdemeanor charge to be brought under CA law. However unlikely that might be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro Nimbus Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Gugny said: It's not okay for anyone to be raped; even sluts. I never said it was OK, just alluding to the fact that she was bragging about her "body count" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Come on thread, don't get stuck at 299 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 On 9/19/2022 at 12:05 PM, FireChans said: I just met Araiza in the lobby of the Courtyard at the airport. He was sitting with a couple of guys, just hanging out. A few fans came up and asked for selfies. I'm not a selfie guy. He was wearing a Bills cap with, of course, the standing buffalo. He was relaxed and smiling. He said he's doing well, and his parents are happy. He said all is good when your parents are happy. I told him he's the subject of debate around here about the best Bills punter of all time, and that the young guys around here have to explain that it isn't Moorman. One of his companions sat there, nodding his head and smiling. Man's been through a lot, and probably deservedly so. Many think he deserves greater punishment. He'll take what the system imposes on him and move on, and I'm happy for him if he finds some peace. Is this a copy pasta that I'm not aware of? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 300 pages!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 26 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Is this a copy pasta that I'm not aware of? It is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 any updates at all on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 8 hours ago, RiotAct said: any updates at all on this? Nothing really, except he appears to be in the clear on any criminal statutory rape charge as the statute of limitations is one year (incident allegedly took place Oct. 17 or thereabouts last year.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 On 10/26/2022 at 5:48 AM, JoPoy88 said: Nothing really, except he appears to be in the clear on any criminal statutory rape charge as the statute of limitations is one year (incident allegedly took place Oct. 17 or thereabouts last year.) We should be bringing him back for the playoffs... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 19 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said: We should be bringing him back for the playoffs... The punter we ended up with doing nicely 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The punter we ended up with doing nicely On a one year contract. It would not surprise me to see Araiza back in a Bills uniform next year. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Draconator said: On a one year contract. It would not surprise me to see Araiza back in a Bills uniform next year. That would be amazinggggg..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 7 hours ago, Draconator said: On a one year contract. It would not surprise me to see Araiza back in a Bills uniform next year. The current guy seems to be doing the job perfectly fine, if it's not broke don't fix it, just bring him back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 13 hours ago, Draconator said: On a one year contract. It would not surprise me to see Araiza back in a Bills uniform next year. If everything is cleared up legally, ok. They’ll say that they gave him time to clear his name rather than have to concentrate on punting and his legal issues. Do the Bills still hold his rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Just Jack said: If everything is cleared up legally, ok. They’ll say that they gave him time to clear his name rather than have to concentrate on punting and his legal issues. Do the Bills still hold his rights? He was cut so I do not think the Bills hold his rights. Besides which the Kid is poisoned now. You can say it’s unfair but I doubt any NFL organization with any class touches him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turf Toejam 34 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said: He was cut so I do not think the Bills hold his rights. Besides which the Kid is poisoned now. You can say it’s unfair but I doubt any NFL organization with any class touches him. ...enter the KC Chiefs..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 17 hours ago, Draconator said: On a one year contract. It would not surprise me to see Araiza back in a Bills uniform next year. Not a chance. You just don't invite a distracting media circus over a punter for any reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said: He was cut so I do not think the Bills hold his rights. Besides which the Kid is poisoned now. You can say it’s unfair but I doubt any NFL organization with any class touches him. If he clears his name by proving he wasn't part of the gangbang, what's the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Doc said: If he clears his name by proving he wasn't part of the gangbang, what's the issue? Reread what you wrote and ask yourself if its worth having a punter on your roster that makes you even fathom the words gang or bang alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Doc said: If he clears his name by proving he wasn't part of the gangbang, what's the issue? There will be unresolved suspicion of his role in the whole scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 24 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Reread what you wrote and ask yourself if its worth having a punter on your roster that makes you even fathom the words gang or bang alone. 19 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: There will be unresolved suspicion of his role in the whole scenario. Not if he just left the party after having sex with her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Only way he is cleared if she states she falsely accused him possibly due to stress from attack from other men caused memory confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts