Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[StHustle]

There is clearly only one option here.

[Airseven]

Did this alleged victim frequent college parties?

[Awwufelloff]

If they knew a month ago there is literally zero excuse to cut Hauck. Kind of disappointed in the bills right now. If anything it’s a massive distraction right before the season starts. He’s a punter for gods sake…

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

You need to read between the lines.  "Did you feel you were misled by Matt?"  "I'm not gonna go there."  By not saying "no", he said volumes.

 

That was my interpretation, but other interpretations differ

[nkreed]

7 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

You need to read between the lines.  "Did you feel you were misled by Matt?"  "I'm not gonna go there."  By not saying "no", he said volumes.

That's your confirmation bias saying that. 

 

When looked at with a little more background, he can't say a thing. He was between a rock and a hard place. He could not confirm or deny anything coming his way.

[RyanC883]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Especially since it was reported that the lawyer for the victim notified the bills over 3 or 4 weeks ago.... 

 

Seems pretty amateurish to me

 

getting notifies by one party 3 weeks ago means they likely started looking into this.  That’s a significant amount of investigating in 3 weeks. 

[jkeerie]

25 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

 Two other teams drafted punters before the Bills took Araiza, who was clearly the highest rated punter in the draft.

Why did they know enough not to pick him and the Bills did not?

 Did the Bills know and take a chance that it would just go away?

Otherwise, why did the Bills think he was dropping and teams were drafting other punters?

McD looked uncomfortable and  pissed off to be in that situation.

You can't draw that conclusion.  Stout from Penn State was the first punter taken by the Ravens.  I actually thought he was a better prospect due to hang time and pinning teams inside the 20.  I'm not certain who the second punter was (the punter from Georgia maybe??)...but teams may have preferred hang time and holding experience to distance in his case as well.

[HappyDays]

24 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

All I know about any of this is the kid will get his day in court, possibly multiple courts. If he's cleared he will get an opportunity to play with someone. If he's not then he won't.  At this point it doesn't need to be Buffalo because the distraction that will happen between now and that time in the future when all of the court dates are over isn't worth it for a team with Super Bowl aspirations. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. You could tell me right now that he will be a HoF punter and that he will be 100% exonerated 12-18 months from now and it doesn't matter.  This season CANNOT be derailed by a god damned punter.

 

After seeing how the team looked tonight and watching McDermott's presser I have done a complete 180 and come around to this view. It just isn't worth it. It will hang over the team for the whole season and I can't even imagine what the Ralph will be like whenever he comes out to punt. I'm not going to assume he's guilty of anything, the case will play itself out, but for right now let him go and if he is found to be completely innocent we can bring him back in the future.

[Kmart128]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

After seeing how the team looked tonight and watching McDermott's presser I have done a complete 180 and come around to this view. It just isn't worth it. It will hang over the team for the whole season and I can't even imagine what the Ralph will be like whenever he comes out to punt. I'm not going to assume he's guilty of anything, the case will play itself out, but for right now let him go and if he is found to be completely innocent we can bring him back in the future.

 

If he is found innocent do you think he will want to go to a team that cut him and didnt believe his story? He would probably hatevthe organization for not believing his story and potentially costing him his career.

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said:

Per McD's press conference, here's the pretext I think they'll use to cut ties with MA:

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2022/08/27/matt-araiza-bills-punter-rape-lawsuit-sean-mcdermott-upset-press-conference/65459704007/

 

Were you aware that he or his agent were going to put out a statement?

No.

 

Do you have a reaction to that statement? Did you read it? Have you seen it?

I'm aware of that statement since the game and I'm not going to make a comment on that.

 

Blindsiding the HC and generating more bad press for the team--that alone puts a fork in it, IMO.

.

 

Oh yeah I think that mid-game statement was the nail in the coffin. McDermott is already doing everything he can to get a handle on the situation and prepare his team for a game in the middle of a media storm, and then Araiza perpetuates the distraction while that game is being played.

[Kmart128]

32 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This is a pretty damning thing for a leader of this team to say. 
 

It basically sounds like Hyde believes the right thing to do is move on from Araiza. 

 

Really? I think opposite... sounds like he is saying he trusts their judgment. And trusts the Bills investigation into the matter and trusts that they wouldnt have cut Haack if they thought this was accurate.

[Shake_My_Head]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

After seeing how the team looked tonight and watching McDermott's presser I have done a complete 180 and come around to this view. It just isn't worth it. It will hang over the team for the whole season and I can't even imagine what the Ralph will be like whenever he comes out to punt. I'm not going to assume he's guilty of anything, the case will play itself out, but for right now let him go and if he is found to be completely innocent we can bring him back in the future.

 

I have also come to the viewpoint that regardless of his guilt or innocence, he's gone.   And won't be brought back, irrespective of the outcome of the civil case.

 

To quote Mr. Spock, "...The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, there was definitely that element too.

I just thought he was gritting his teeth in a mammoth effort to stay calm and controlled.

 

 

I counted 12 times where he used some variation of "I'm not going there".  It looked like he was going to lose it on the last three, especially when he was asked if Matt lied to him.  He could have said no, but he chose not to answer.  That said volumes to me.

[LeGOATski]

7 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You were saying?

I was saying "Well, I think you'll see it."

[Freddie's Dead]

13 minutes ago, nkreed said:

That's your confirmation bias saying that. 

 

When looked at with a little more background, he can't say a thing. He was between a rock and a hard place. He could not confirm or deny anything coming his way.

 

It's like a grand jury.  You either take the 5th on everything, or you have to answer every question.  McD said much by which questions he decided to answer.  When you take this in conjunction with his answer about learning new information in the last 24 hours, I think that speaks volumes.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

 

If he is found innocent do you think he will want to go to a team that cut him and didnt believe his story? He would probably hatevthe organization for not believing his story and potentially costing him his career.

 

If Araiza is cut it won't be the Bills fault, especially if he lied to them at any point. If he resents us for it and decides to never come back in the future after being proved innocent, oh well. Players have had their careers ruined by stepping on the turf in the wrong way. If Araiza is totally innocent I sympathize with him. But ultimately we have to do what's best for the team's Super Bowl aspirations, and in a decision between really good punter and morale of the entire team you choose the entire team every time. You can't tell me you watched tonight's game and think it wasn't weighing on the team. If the Bills cut Araiza tomorrow the media will move on and the team can move on with them. Capable punters are found on the street.

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

After seeing how the team looked tonight and watching McDermott's presser I have done a complete 180 and come around to this view. It just isn't worth it. It will hang over the team for the whole season and I can't even imagine what the Ralph will be like whenever he comes out to punt. I'm not going to assume he's guilty of anything, the case will play itself out, but for right now let him go and if he is found to be completely innocent we can bring him back in the future.

I’ve been firmly in the let more info come out first crowd before we rush to judgement.  And I still believe that.  
 

But seeing McD at the presser and even some of the players quotes has also given me a 180 that this is too heavy of a situation to carry into the season.  

So for me, there needs to be a very strong piece of information that comes to light immediately that supports Matt’s case or I don’t know how they can keep him on the team while his case plays out.  

 

And honestly, sounds like the opposite may have happened where they may have gotten new info that makes his case worse.

 

I think he will be cut this weekend.  

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[BillsfaninSB]

So ready for this to be over.  Bills have a chance to cut bait now and make it only a San Diego problem.

 

Don’t want to be lumped in with the Browns, Steelers and Chiefs. 

[Mattymafia]

25 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Have to believe it was football related as Araiza did not hold in college. I seriously doubt Araiza would have been drafted if they knew about this situation. Now we can question how in their pre draft process and background checks this ended up being missed. However, I believe the Bills found out about this just recently at least a few weeks ago. 
 

Genuinely curious how much McDermott knew about this situation and if there is any disconnect between Beane and him. Releasing Haack looks like a poor decision in retrospect.
 

 

Araiza didn’t hold in college because he also kicked field goals. 

[Malazan]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

After seeing how the team looked tonight and watching McDermott's presser I have done a complete 180 and come around to this view. It just isn't worth it. It will hang over the team for the whole season and I can't even imagine what the Ralph will be like whenever he comes out to punt. I'm not going to assume he's guilty of anything, the case will play itself out, but for right now let him go and if he is found to be completely innocent we can bring him back in the future.

 

Regardless, Araiza made bad decisions that put him in a situation where he was exposed. Since then he kept it from the team in some capacity. His lawyer is doing things that are inappropriate and apparently not communicating to the Bills what they're doing.

 

They don't need this distraction. McDermott looked shook. This could easily snowball if it was kept from McDermott somewhere along the line.

 

Cut him now. He can cry into his guaranteed $700,000.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Malazan

[Freddie's Dead]

10 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Or, even though it wasn’t during college days, the likes of Watson and Roethlisberger.

 

A better analogy is Rapeis Winston at FSU, where campus cops and Tallahassee police colluded to delay delay delay, which gave the defense team the time they needed to slut shame and destroy the victim.  We drafted the lookout, Ronald Darby.  Because every athlete having consensual sex needs someone guarding the door. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[GoBills808]

McDermott got the news when we did and reacted like anyone w half a brain would have. Kudos to him.

[iccrewman112]

14 minutes ago, Kmart128 said:

 

If he is found innocent do you think he will want to go to a team that cut him and didnt believe his story? He would probably hatevthe organization for not believing his story and potentially costing him his career.

his actions would have been what cost him his career not the bills if they cut him. There are 31 other teams.

Edited August 27, 2022 by iccrewman112

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

How can the organization possibly not be to blame? The said that they did a “thorough investigation” and then decided to cut Haack. Now it looks like they were full of crap and just did a cursory investigation before dismissing the issue. Obviously they took it very lightly which was a huge mistake and is frankly unbelievable given the seriousness of the accusations and the current environment with Watson.

 

One thing is clear.  The Bills (and by extension, the rest of the NFL) did not perform due diligence in checking the background of one Matt Arap...err...Araiza.

[wppete]

Where are the Pegulas in this? Where’s Kim Pegula the person standing for women equality. A bunch of hypocrites…. Never thought this Bills regime and owners would let this happen. 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

If the alleged victim’s attorney was confident of criminal charges he wouldn’t be pushing a civil case. I think the statue is 12 months so he could have held back another eight weeks if the criminal charge was moving at a glacial pace.

 

This is actually doing the Bills a huge favor. Imagine if they waited three months and this didn't come to light until mid-season? The team has time to get right, do what's right, and then focus on the start of the season. 

[BillsfaninSB]

It’s still bizarre they cut Haak.  They may not have had the whole story but it seems they should have had enough  info to push pause.

 

I get Haak was on the bubble no matter what but he still is a serviceable plan B to buy some time and bring in someone else. 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Where are the Pegulas in this? Where’s Kim Pegula the person standing for women equality. A bunch of hypocrites…. Never thought this Bills regime and owners would let this happen. 

 

Not instantly taking action before getting enough facts, does not equate to supporting or ignoring rape. I think they will act soon enough.

[GoBills808]

Just now, BillsfaninSB said:

It’s still bizarre they cut Haak.  They may not have had the whole story but it seems they should have had enough  info to push pause.

 

I get Haak was on the bubble no matter what but he still is a serviceable plan B to buy some time and bring in someone else. 

They didn't have anything. They found out when we did.

[nemhoff]

Coach McD has strong character, those who are bitching and moaning about him and his presser have maybe/obviously never been in that kind of leadership position.  To me, he is clearly distressed, hurting, and angry about it.  I believe him when he says that the organization will do the right thing.  He has always been that kind of leader.  And IMO he is a man of his word.

[BillsfaninSB]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

They didn't have anything. They found out when we did.

They knew this was in the works back in July.  I don’t understand your response.  Did I miss something?

[wppete]

Just now, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Not instantly taking action before getting enough facts, does not equate to supporting or ignoring rape. I think they will act soon enough.

As an owner in the NFL and self proclaimed womens rights advocate Kim Pegula sat silent on the 24 civil law suits of sexual assault  on Deshaun Watson and as of now is doing the same for a disgusting and horrendous allegation of an employee of hers. Very telling.  Let’s see if she even comments on this. 

[Ross Murdock]

It's all over the media that he's already admitted he had sex with an underage girl. So consent won't matter. Basically he's already committed a crime! I don't understand this discussion at this point? He has to to go, and the Bills need to find a decent punter. When the Colts immediately signed Haack when he was released, I knew there weren't many good punters out there....A punter is not a QB, but they aren't nothing.... Bills need to clean this up pronto! n .   

[GoBills808]

Just now, BillsfaninSB said:

They knew this was in the works back in July.  I don’t understand your response.  Did I miss something?

I don't believe they had anything close to what we now know. McDermott was either unaware or misled as to the seriousness of what Araiza was into. 

[QCity]

15 minutes ago, wppete said:

Where are the Pegulas in this? Where’s Kim Pegula the person standing for women equality. A bunch of hypocrites…. Never thought this Bills regime and owners would let this happen. 

 

[BillsfaninSB]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't believe they had anything close to what we now know. McDermott was either unaware or misled as to the seriousness of what Araiza was into. 

Perhaps, but the victim’s attorney contacted them 3 or 4 weeks ago.  There was an article in the LA Times reporting about the incident back in June.  Some truly big red flags there.

 

I believe the Bills did not have the full picture until Thursday like all of us but they were clearly ahead of the curve on this.  Cutting Haak is just very strange to me. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, BillsfaninSB said:

Perhaps, but the victim’s attorney contacted them 3 or 4 weeks ago.  There was an article in the LA Times reporting about the incident back in June.  Some truly big red flags there.

 

I believe the Bills did not have the full picture until Thursday like all of us but they were clearly ahead of the curve on this.  Cutting Haak is just very strange to me. 

I think after McDermott's press conference it's very hard to argue that they were ahead of the curve. 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Billznut said:

Araiza is gone, I’d bet my life on it. 

 

$5,000, or it doesn't count.

[Beck Water]

So people have raised the question of "what does McDermott really mean by 'work to do'?  What can the Bills actually investigate?" 

 

There's an article here on the scouting process.  I found it interesting, give it a read if you haven't:

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-draft-process-requires-teams-to-truly-know-prospects-0ap2000000326374

Quote

Say the word "scout" and most folks think of a stopwatch, a clipboard and a dark film room. The truth is that these days, that all represents just a percentage of the job. One GM estimated that those positions are now 50-50 in terms of doing work on the player vs. the person. The area scout goes further, saying that character assessment "is at least 50 percent of our job."

 

The area scouts are expected to develop background on the draft prospects - what are they like as people, what are they like to coach, are there any red flags? 

Quote

"The expectation is that we know that we've created sources that will tell us as much as we can possibly know about the kid," Schneider said. "You're expected to be the expert in your area."

It can mean knowing a player's high school coach or his elementary school principal. If you're the Southeast area scout, it has to mean having places like Baton Rouge wired. If you're assigned to the Midwest, it's knowing all the ins and outs of spots like Columbus, down to the academic advisors and the trainers and sometimes even the local police.

The truth isn't always easy to come by. Getting there is what counts.

 

Every NFL club apparently has its own boundaries around what behavior from a prospect is a "Hard No".

 

Quote

With some players, teams will advance to the stage of putting their security directors, who are often retired federal agents, on the case, dispatching them to the college cities and hometowns of prospects for further research. The security directors will do things like hit up the area bars and coffee shops to gather local perception and use law enforcement connections to siphon information. Later in the process, the heads of security are often a big part of clubs' draft meetings as players are discussed.

 

Obviously, teams are going to put a lot more effort into players they might draft in the top 3 rounds, than into players they might draft in the 6th or 7th round.  And scouts are going to have better connections at schools they visit all the time, than at lower level programs.

 

So these guys are presumably taking lots of notes as they talk to people.  Young assistants may hang out in bars and talk to students.  But then they got to summarize those notes and boil them down to 2-3 sentences or maybe a para on each prospect's work ethics, personal life, and character.  There's a judgement call: maybe there was talk about wild partying and a couple of women who made sexual assault complaints.  Was there substance to it?  Should they X the guy off the draft board?  And clearly for a lot of teams over the years, the answer to that has been "no" unless the claim was well substantiated - Jameis Winston is one example of that.

 

If it's true that there was talk on the football team about a rape involving 5 members of the football team at a party off campus, that really is the sort of thing the area scout and investigators might have heard, and made notes about, and then reached a judgement whether they were going to take it seriously and write it into their 2 sentence summary on that player.

 

That's one thing the Bills can do - talk to their area scout, have him go back through his notes when he scouted Araiza and see if he had information he made a judgement call not to pass on, but that might have a bearing on what was being said on the team or on campus last October or November.  

 

Likewise, there may have been other summaries from combine interviews not just with Araiza but with coaches.  McDermott and Beane aren't going to get the raw data on late round prospects, they'll get summaries.  So they can go back and look through the raw data here, on an information gathering mission.

 

Then they need to synthesize everything they know together and make a decision.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beast]

Pre-season is over and we have the drama of a punter hanging over us heading into what we hope is a special season.

 

A ***** punter.