Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[YoloinOhio]

15 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

 

And exactly what actual facts does the NFL personal conduct policy have to work with to levy punishment? No criminal charges, no evidence other than believe the woman scenario. 

 

I don't see how they can hand out a suspension with zero actual evidence.

 

Oh, and go Johnny Depp!

 

 

Some UFO witnesses can sound highly believable as well...

The NFL is undergoing their own investigation 

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree he started with a genuine point about the risks of trial by social media mob culture. Unfortunately where he has ended up is somewhere else. 

Sounds like he's trying to recruit members into the He-Man Woman Haters Club

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Which consists of what? Interviewing the women to hear their stories? 

 

If there wasn't enough to bring charges, what is the NFL investigation going to find? 

 

They have interviewed Watson too. 

 

And I have explained this once... a grand jury before indicting has to be satisfied that there is a reasonable chance of a conviction which means a reasonable chance that a court can be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that an offence has occured. 

 

The NFL Personal Conduct Policy does not require the investigator to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt, but simply on the balance of probablities. 

 

They are not seeking to answer the same exam question.

 

[ALF]

Watson can afford to pay off well all the women , his humiliation is a deterrence to other men. 

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Which consists of what? Interviewing the women to hear their stories? 

 

If there wasn't enough to bring charges, what is the NFL investigation going to find? 

They are interviewing a lot of people including Watson and the women and an independent judge will determine if he violated the personal conduct policy. We will know the answer to these questions when the investigation is released as it was with Zeke Elliott. I’m sure you know that the findings to bring criminal charges are different than findings to violate the nfl’s personal conduct policy?

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Of course. Yet I think corporations being the arbiter of truth is dangerous.

Except they arent, they are just making a decision for the NFL, not the legal issues.

[teef]

something tells me gene1973 may not do so well...with the ladies.

[Captain Hindsight]

15 minutes ago, teef said:

something tells me gene1973 may not do so well...with the ladies.

Who hurt you gene?

[LeGOATski]

32 minutes ago, teef said:

something tells me gene1973 may not do so well...with the ladies.

It's definitely them. It's definitely not him.

[Rigotz]

35 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Of course. Yet I think corporations being the arbiter of truth is dangerous.

Have you ever worked for a corporation?

 

When someone complains to HR about you, there are consequences. Do you think OJ Simpson would get to continue to work at Google?

 

My man, you need to hit the pause button on this crusade and think about what you’re saying.

[wjag]

16 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

 

Edit:  Also, if you value your humanity, do not click the link to the Cleveland Browns fan forum thread.  It's the most disgusting thing I've read in quite some time.  

 

It literally is the antithesis of this thread.  I find the psychology interesting.  The preponderance of statements on this board are he's guilty.  The preponderance of statements on their board is he's innocent.  What's interesting to me is how few posters on their board believe the women.  It's like 90-10 here he did it and like 90-10 there he's being extorted.  

 

I also find it interesting the tone of their posters.  Vulgarity rules the day or grammar there.

 

Another random thought.  This case strikes me as very similar to the Bill Cosby case.  Remember when it first came out your reaction was, Not Cliff Huxtable.  Can't be.  Not Fat Albert.  Can't be.  Not the pudding guy.  Can't be.  And then another person comes forward and another and another.  And guess what, it was the pudding guy.  It was Cliff Huxtable.  It was Fat Albert.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by wjag

[H2o]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/01/houston-spa-owner-testifies-that-deshaun-watson-paid-her-5000-because-hes-a-nice-person/ 

 

Nooooooo, not because you were sending women to probe his anus and possibly become sexual assault victims in the process. It was "because he's a nice person". GTFOH with that bull****. 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

That was not the case initially when she wrote the article, she had plenty of believe all women supporters.

 

A lot of people supported OJ Simpson too. I don't care, at all. As an independent thinking person I'm able to review the available evidence and make my own judgments. Lumping every "woman accuses man" case under one umbrella is stupid. Using one case of a woman publicly lying to say you can't make any judgment about other cases in the future is equally stupid. It would be like claiming that because OJ Simpson was found not guilty that means every murder trial is a sham. There's some logic for you, Gene. But let's be honest  You're not coming into this discussion from a position of logic. That's just a defensive mechanism for your weird brand of misogyny.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by HappyDays

[nucci]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

 

 I work at a corporation. Been through the training, yes. IMO, things are getting out of hand. Logic is not ruling the day, and it's concerning.

 

There is a propensity for more humans to spue falshoods at a much higher rate to a wider audience. That is not accountability...

maybe women feel they now have a voice and are willing to speak up. Yes, some may be lying but guessing most are telling the truth and sick of putting up with guys doing what they want to them and getting away with it

[cle23]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think I've seen one single person that has supported Amber Heard. I haven't followed the case at all but it seems that the public opinion matches up with the verdict. Also the two cases are not even remotely related. The claims are different, the number of parties involved is different, the evidence available to the public is different. You are way off base here. Nothing unusual about that though.

 

Depp was fired from the planned Pirates of the Caribbean movies, and was basically ignored in Hollywood for however long now, until the trial was public.  But he was definitely vilified in the public after the allegations came out.  It wasn't until the trial when the truth started coming out that everyone turned on Heard.

[Captain Hindsight]

12 minutes ago, ytownblofan said:

 

But according to you, the Women are lying and we can't believe them but we can blindly believe Watson and his lawyer when they deny the allegations with no proof that they are false? 

Exactly. Usually when its like a he said she said situation, I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt.

 

But in this situation is he said vs she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said

 

Then I might be like hmmm maybe something to this. The last women that joined the lawsuit sought minimal compensation. Kind of throws the gold digger defense out 

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Women have evolved to manipulate to get their way, this includes spreading lies to garner favorable opinions via gossip. Amber Heard wrote a story that was "stunning and brave", that a lot of people belived, so much so that Depp was severley punished losing work. Turns out that story was crap. Think Disney will give Depp his Pirates role back? Nope, character assasination has already taken place.

 

These women have the burden of proof in this. They need to show more proof than just verbal stories IMO.

 

NFL can do what they want, but they will be punishing via hersay and no factual evidence like audio/video. 

Amber Heard is a terrible comparison to this case. When Heard came forward nobody followed her, in fact essentially every romantic partner he'd previously had said how great a guy he was and that he'd never done anything like that with them. Her story also constantly changed as time went on. Heard and Depp also initially came to an agreement that they'd both drop it.(spoil alert she failed miserably)

 

In this case 22 women have stuck to their same story for over a year.

[Captain Hindsight]

14 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

So should the NFL's punishment be proportional to the number of accusers?

I have no idea, but its hard to ignore the number of accusations in this particular case. It would be irresponsible IMO to treat this as one  case vs 24.

 

Are there meritless cases brought up? Sure. Some people lie for money, fame, verdictive reasons ect. I'll acknowledge that, and maybe thats whats happening here. If it is, that really sucks for Watson, but besides people thinking hes a creep, he hasn't really been hurt here. He got paid all of last year to sit out (his decision mind you) and then got 230 million fully guaranteed by a desperate owner. 

 

I have my feelings that its very likely that Watson is at best a creepy MF and at worst a serial sexual predator.. I'm really glad he is not a Bill

[Freddie's Dead]

Most people I know don't see 24 massage therapists, they see one that they trust.  The fact that this POS was shopping for massage therapists like an oxy junkie shops for a doctor is damning.  Explain that, Hardon!

[ytownblofan]

6 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

I'm just wondering if people will be upset with a six game suspension as opposed to a 6 x 24 game suspension.

 

I don't think it will be 6 games, but I also do not expect it to be 144 games either. 

 

 

Given the MLBs recent 2 year suspension of Trevor Bauer, it would be extremely difficult to only suspend him for 6 games and expect the public blow back not to be horrendous. As you have mentioned, the NFL is a corporation and cares about the bottom dollar. Having the public enraged, causing a loss of money and potential sponsors is also something they will consider. 

 

Being that he cannot be placed on the exemption list, I personally think it should be an indefinite suspension until all cases are either dismissed, settled, or court proceedings are complete. Once all cases are complete, the league can then choose to reinstate or extend his suspension based on the findings. This would allow the league to show they are taking the allegations seriously, but would also allow Watson the ability to hit the field ASAP if it is found that the cases are without basis and are dismissed. 

[BillsFan4]

15 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

How would Watson know if the women he hired weren't savvy enough to require that level of safety or documentation? That's a lot of going out of your way to find that out. I'm not saying nothing happened but I refuse all 23 are telling the truth

I don't care what her side says. When a woman is sewing a millionaire, I am not gonna fully believe everything they say. Like I said, women are very materialistic people, I'm not taking a side

You keep saying you’re not takin a side but then immediately take the side of the man.

 

16 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm not on the jury so I don't have to make that decision. I'm not taking a side on these cases. People everywhere believe women are angels. Tons of women are materialistic and they don't care. I am not gonna believe some women in these cases. Even Ashley Solis

 

21 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

So now a 23rd woman decides to file suit this far into the process and people actually believe ALL these women? People might say "she could have been afraid to come out about it" but 22 women already said something, so what would she have been afraid of? This late in the game says it's about money to me 

You even go as far as to say that you automatically assume any woman is lying if the man has money. That you just assume any woman suing a man with money for sexual assault is lying because she is just materialistic.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by BillsFan4

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

You are out there right now, man. I do share your dislike for social media, though...no matter how many Bills-related video clips it provides me.

Right now?  🤣 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

 

So should the NFL's punishment be proportional to the number of accusers?

Probably

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

You keep saying you’re not takin a side but then immediately take the side of the man.

 

 

You even go as far as to say that you automatically assume any woman is lying if the man has money. That you just assume any woman who is suing a man with money of sexual assault is just lying because she is materialistic.

 

 

And people wonder why women don’t come forward in these situations  … it’s humiliating to be in the public eye and be judged like this 

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

It won't be.

K

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, wjag said:

 

It literally is the antithesis of this thread.  I find the psychology interesting.  The preponderance of statements on this board are he's guilty.  The preponderance of statements on their board is he's innocent.  What's interesting to me is how few posters on their board believe the women.  It's like 90-10 here he did it and like 90-10 there he's being extorted.  

 

I also find it interesting the tone of their posters.  Vulgarity rules the day or grammar there.

 

Another random thought.  This case strikes me as very similar to the Bill Cosby case.  Remember when it first came out your reaction was, Not Cliff Huxtable.  Can't be.  Not Fat Albert.  Can't be.  Not the pudding guy.  Can't be.  And then another person comes forward and another and another.  And guess what, it was the pudding guy.  It was Cliff Huxtable.  It was Fat Albert.

 

 

I think one of the accusations is being investigated for possible extortion and that’s what they latched onto.  That doesn’t make the other 22 accusations less credible though 

[Big Turk]

29 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

And people wonder why women don’t come forward in these situations  … it’s humiliating to be in the public eye and be judged like this 

 

Partly due to so many that have been found to be lying about what actually happened trying to get money or even just get guys arrested because they are vindictive if things go badly in the future between them.  Not saying this is the case or not, but it does happen a lot. Far more than people think.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

this applies to all humans...not just women.

 

i think the problem is some men are just awful with women.  choosing them, having a partner, keeping someone around.  i just can't help but to feel that if someone has this approach, it's because they were jilted at some point or just can't get the attention of a woman.  we've all been burned by someone at some point in our lives, but for the love of god get over it.  

it really is the classic definition.  

 

Of course everyone has. Some allow it to happen over and over again and never learn. The smart ones learn from their experiences and don't let it happen again.  If more guys would simply judge by actions instead of words they would see things much clearer.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[teef]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Of course everyone has. Some allow it to happen over and over again and never learn. The smart ones learn from their experiences and don't let it happen again.  

you can be smart and it can still happen.  humans are a strange bunch.  to be jilted towards an entire group is just strange to me, and say more about that person than the group they're concerned about. 

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

you can be smart and it can still happen.  humans are a strange bunch.  to be jilted towards an entire group is just strange to me, and say more about that person than the group they're concerned about. 

 

I don't think judging someone by actions rather than words is jilted. I think it just allows you to see clearly.  A woman says she wants to see you all the time but then is constantly "busy" if you ask her out but finds time to hang out with friends, coworkers outside work, etc simply means she isn't in to you.  But the number of guys who will keep trying over and over again because they think to themselves "Well, she said she really wants to get together so she must be interested" is staggering.  Nobody is that busy that if they really wanted to get together that they wouldn't find a way to make it happen. That just isn't how people work. In fact, if women are interested they will normally go out of their way to make it work even if it means cutting into other areas of their life.

 

Women many times either are being nice because they legitimately don't want to hurt guys feelings by telling them the truth so they think telling these little white lies or pretending like they want to do something when they really don't is letting them down easy and they'll get the hint, or they are afraid to tell guys "no" because some guys can't handle and get really mad and will go off on them and call them names, etc or will get violent because their ego can't handle being rejected.  

 

So if guys understand the why behind it, it becomes easier to just judge actions to understand what their true interest level is.  If they make time to see you, they are interested, if they don't they aren't. Many guys could simplify their life by just having that type of outlook in place, not only with women but with a lot of different things...but unfortunately they want to believe what people say instead of what they do most times.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[Mango]

Some of the generalized views of women on this thread are really concerning.It is really gross and even scary in some cases. So much vitriol towards an entire gender. 
 

We get  “warning points” for talking politics out of turn around kneeling or shootings.  But providing a safe space to talk about how women are some deceptive subclass of human who have been strategically manipulating men for millennia is peak misogyny and privilege. 
 

I have a really bad taste in my mouth about the character of a number of people on this thread. I really hope the women in my life are not involved with them at all. 

[Big Turk]

19 minutes ago, Mango said:

Some of the generalized views of women on this thread are really concerning.It is really gross and even scary in some cases. So much vitriol towards an entire gender. 
 

We get  “warning points” for talking politics out of turn around kneeling or shootings.  But providing a safe space to talk about how women are some deceptive subclass of human who have been strategically manipulating men for millennia is peak misogyny and privilege. 
 

I have a really bad taste in my mouth about the character of a number of people on this thread. I really hope the women in my life are not involved with them at all. 

 

You are really naive if you think those type of women don't exist. Hopefully you don't end up learning the hard way or the expensive way.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[Mat68]

Hard to assume 24 different people with the only connection is the same profession and use social media are on lying.  Did he rape anyone?  Probably not.  Was he being a dirtbag in most of these situation? Probably so.  

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I don't think judging someone by actions rather than words is jilted. I think it just allows you to see clearly.  A woman says she wants to see you all the time but then is constantly "busy" if you ask her out but finds time to hang out with friends, coworkers outside work, etc simply means she isn't in to you.  But the number of guys who will keep trying over and over again because they think to themselves "Well, she said she really wants to get together so she must be interested" is staggering.  Nobody is that busy that if they really wanted to get together that they wouldn't find a way to make it happen. That just isn't how people work. In fact, if women are interested they will normally go out of their way to make it work even if it means cutting into other areas of their life.

 

Women many times either are being nice because they legitimately don't want to hurt guys feelings by telling them the truth so they think telling these little white lies or pretending like they want to do something when they really don't is letting them down easy and they'll get the hint, or they are afraid to tell guys "no" because some guys can't handle and get really mad and will go off on them and call them names, etc or will get violent because their ego can't handle being rejected.  

 

So if guys understand the why behind it, it becomes easier to just judge actions to understand what their true interest level is.  If they make time to see you, they are interested, if they don't they aren't. Many guys could simplify their life by just having that type of outlook in place, not only with women but with a lot of different things...but unfortunately they want to believe what people say instead of what they do most times.

i certainly see where you're coming from, but this type of issue is a minor inconvenience.  if anyone, man or woman, always finds a way not to hang out, you just move on.  they're not worth your time, and you know this.  but the type of nonsense from gene where woman are being raised to manipulate to get their way...there's something deeper to examine there.  a woman who doesn't tell you to move on because she being nice is not quite the same.

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Hard to assume 24 different people with the only connection is the same profession and use social media are on lying.  Did he rape anyone?  Probably not.  Was he being a dirtbag in most of these situation? Probably so.  

 

Agreed, but it also isn't out of the realm of possibility you have some jumping in because they see a way to get an easy payday from a settlement and let's not discount how lawyers would want to get as many people involved in the lawsuit as possible so they might be pushing them to either say more happened than what really did, twisting something that may have happened that wasn't really intended as sexual, or asking leading questions to them so they get the answers they want and then can turn around and say "but you said that he did..." if push comes to shove.  

 

The truth is nobody knows how many of these claims are legit and we likely never fully will, but it wouldn't surprise me if less than half were.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

Some of the generalized views of women on this thread are really concerning.It is really gross and even scary in some cases. So much vitriol towards an entire gender. 
 

We get  “warning points” for talking politics out of turn around kneeling or shootings.  But providing a safe space to talk about how women are some deceptive subclass of human who have been strategically manipulating men for millennia is peak misogyny and privilege. 
 

I have a really bad taste in my mouth about the character of a number of people on this thread. I really hope the women in my life are not involved with them at all. 

This x10

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

And people wonder why women don’t come forward in these situations  … it’s humiliating to be in the public eye and be judged like this 

 

It's usually the same people too. When the accusations are first made "These women are just money hungry." And later, "Why didn't she come forward sooner?" 🤦‍♂️

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Agreed, but it also isn't out of the realm of possibility you have some jumping in because they see a way to get an easy payday from a settlement and let's not discount how lawyers would want to get as many people involved in the lawsuit as possible so they might be pushing them to either say more happened than what really did or asking leading questions to them so they get the answers they want and then can turn around and say "but you said that he did..." if push comes to shove.  

 

The truth is nobody knows how many of these claims are legit, but it wouldn't surprise me if less than half were.

Sure, thats why the totality of the numbers makes it more likely he had a pattern of bad behavior than a few gold diggers looking for paydays.  Sure out of 24 are a few throwing their name in the hat?  Maybe?  All 24 are?  Not likley. He needs to settle and move along with his life.  His crusade will cost him his career imo.  The snippets of his testimony make him come off pretty bad.

[ColoradoBills]

I should of passed on reading this thread.

[Big Turk]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's usually the same people too. When the accusations are first made "These women are just money hungry." And later, "Why didn't she come forward sooner?" 🤦‍♂️

 

Yeah...sure plenty of people were waiting to throw the book at this poor guy who did nothing wrong other than picking the wrong woman to have a consensual encounter with.  The reason why there are people out there saying that stuff is that things like this happen...a lot more than people realize or want to admit.

 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/08/woman-charged-after-detectives-say-she-falsely-accused-man-of-rape/

 

Estimated that up to 2-10% of all of these type of cases are false accusations.  Acting like this never happens when up to potentially 1 in every 10 cases brought to court represent falsely accused men is a little like burying your head in the sand.

 

https://www.avoidjail.net/blog/2020/january/false-allegations-and-sexual-assault-an-in-depth/

Edited June 2, 2022 by Big Turk