Giants are shopping Kadarius Toney

[RichRiderBills]

I'd give any Mullen era gators a wide berth.

 

Huge me first culture there.

[Mat68]

Epenesa for Toney and a 6th.  Who says no

3 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Pass on Divas.  Florida football program is a joke the past few years.  And then a year in the Big Apple where he was one of the bad apples.  

Dont have to LIKE everyone on the team.  His skill set with Allen would be a problem.  
 

Worst case he flames out.  Best case oh my. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Mat68

[John from Riverside]

Does he return punts and kicks

[BillsShredder83]

Just now, Mat68 said:

Epenesa for Toney and a 6th.  Who says no

Not me. If Schoen has some attachment to Epenesa he can have him in this deal. I just can not see any player in the 3rd or later bringing what this guy does.

 

Character concerns? I don't care if he's difficult to work with. Dorsey/McD are professional coaches. Work through it as best as you can. Even if its only a year or two, this guy is a threat to take it to the house EVERY play. Not to mention the impact of what he'd open up for Diggs/Davis. 

[Clyde Smith]

Why do people keep saying he's not a "process" guy. The kid is talented. Remember we was pretty close to signing AB couple years back. Give him a shot.

[Mike in Horseheads]

Give the Giants our 2 6th round picks and get er done.

[Mat68]

33 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Not me. If Schoen has some attachment to Epenesa he can have him in this deal. I just can not see any player in the 3rd or later bringing what this guy does.

 

Character concerns? I don't care if he's difficult to work with. Dorsey/McD are professional coaches. Work through it as best as you can. Even if its only a year or two, this guy is a threat to take it to the house EVERY play. Not to mention the impact of what he'd open up for Diggs/Davis. 

I look at it as a way to get a 2nd rd player for a first rd player.  I dont see anyone paying a day 2 pick for him.  A way to save face and allows Buffalo to move on for a guy who could be a different guy in our culture and with our Qb. 

[Captain Hindsight]

Hell of a talent. Always worrisome when a team is willing to dump a 1st rounder after one year. 

 

I wouldnt hate it

[BillsfaninSB]

Give them Moss and a 5th. 

[Desert Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

should be fairly easy. plenty of friends in NY, and he was just drafted last year (should be scouted well). This doesnt feel like a move our FO makes, but dang this would tip the scales. KC lost Tyreek, and we swing the closest comp you can get to him. Plus hes an absolutely electric return man.

“Return man” Got my attention. Start him there. Give him a chance to work his way into the O. Maybe the change of scene - with our mature leaders - helps him wake up and be a pro.

[78thealltimegreat]

56 minutes ago, Clyde Smith said:

Why do people keep saying he's not a "process" guy. The kid is talented. Remember we was pretty close to signing AB couple years back. Give him a shot.

Remember AB was freaking out at this possibility of going to Buffalo and didn’t want to be here as the Bills weren’t looked at as the powerhouse they are now. So he went to the Raiders good for us. 

[BillsShredder83]

43 minutes ago, Desert Bills Fan said:

“Return man” Got my attention. Start him there. Give him a chance to work his way into the O. Maybe the change of scene - with our mature leaders - helps him wake up and be a pro.

I have never seen a player move like this. Tyreek is faster but can't move anything like this. Look @ the play at 00:40 mark.  His whole reel is doing stuff like this. I don't care who blasts me, this would be bigger than the Von Deal, and for next to nothing. Stick him in the slot, with Diggs and Davis.... how are you going to stop any of them? We're the Chiefs offense (with a better D and better QB) if we pull this off.

 

BEANE AFTER DARK WAAAAAAAKE UPPPPPPPPPPP

[MJS]

So this thread is mentioning character concerns. Anyone know what those are with him? Obviously, it is a red flag when you want to move on from a 1st rounder after one season, but that stuff happens sometimes with major regime changes.

[Malazan]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Sounds like maturity issues and commitment issues. Some team could get a steal or a problem.

He seems pretty likely to steal from them

[freddyjj]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Epenesa for Toney and a 6th.  Who says no

Dont have to LIKE everyone on the team.  His skill set with Allen would be a problem.  
 

Worst case he flames out.  Best case oh my. 

No TDs in 46 percent of offensive snaps and no impact in return game as a Rookie

 

I see TJ Graham Part Deux. Only add in diva mentality with gangbanger baggage.  Easy pass for me

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

So this thread is mentioning character concerns. Anyone know what those are with him? Obviously, it is a red flag when you want to move on from a 1st rounder after one season, but that stuff happens sometimes with major regime changes.

 

 

"In 2018, Toney was among seven Florida players suspended for “not living up to the Gator standard.” A month prior to that suspension, Toney was also stopped by the Gainesville Police Department and found to be in possession of an AR-15.

At the time of Toney’s traffic stop, police questioned whether or not to arrest the receiver for improper storage of a firearm. However, because the rifle was not actually in Toney’s hands at the time of the stop, they deemed it to be in accordance with state’s open-carry laws. He was not charged."

 

Also, he seemed to butt heads with Judge last year over not getting playing time early. He missed voluntary camps, and some of mandatory camp last year due to Covid. I guess the final straw was him not showing up to voluntary training this week.

 

That said, Judge is Coughlin wanna-be. That style doesnt seem to work too well in the NFL anymore, and especially not for a terrible team.  Judge kept him on the bench until injuries forced his hand. He came in and looked absolutely dynamic. I'm sure having Danny Dimes Nickels at QB didnt excite him either.

 

Nobody is confusing him for the smartest guy but I think the problems are relatively minor, and being tossed into an elite offense, with a strong locker room around him could easily fix the problem. 

 

Seriously the guy was doing to NFL defenses the same things he did in college. Damn near untackleable!!! He's an absolute superstar in the making. I've never seen anything like it. 60 seconds of this video is all it takes. He's Tyreek but more athletic. I'd easily give up our first for him, and it won't take anywhere near that. Hes on a rookie contract. He's going to be the biggest trade steal in the last decade.

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

4 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

No TDs in 46 percent of offensive snaps and no impact in return game as a Rookie

 

I see TJ Graham Part Deux. Only add in diva mentality with gangbanger baggage.  Easy pass for me

Dudes not a diva. Judge is the biggest blow hard I've seen in a long time. None of that team respected him. Giants put him in the gameplan twice and he was electric.  It's not hard to get this guy a few bubble screens, slants, and end around. Judge was too busy cutting off his nose to spite his face

[freddyjj]

2 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Dudes not a diva. Judge is the biggest blow hard I've seen in a long time. None of that team respected him. Giants put him in the gameplan twice and he was electric.  It's not hard to get this guy a few bubble screens, slants, and end around. Judge was too busy cutting off his nose to spite his face

[BillsShredder83]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Tyreek beat up his pregnant gf, broke his son's arm (dont care if there were no charges, the audio is out there him admitting it), and fetched the most trade capital ever for a WR along with an insane contract.

This guy isnt worth bringing in on a rookie contract for a 3rd - 5th rounder? Name a player in even the 1st rd of this draft that brings this skill set. I'll wait.

[freddyjj]

11 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Tyreek beat up his pregnant gf, broke his son's arm (dont care if there were no charges, the audio is out there him admitting it), and fetched the most trade capital ever for a WR along with an insane contract.

This guy isnt worth bringing in on a rookie contract for a 3rd - 5th rounder? Name a player in even the 1st rd of this draft that brings this skill set. I'll wait.

Ok here

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2022/04/21/2022-nfl-draft-skyy-moore-scouting-report/

 

If Schoen and Daboll are passing on Toney have to believe Beane and Dorsey will too.  If I were you I'd lower your expectations here based on that. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by freddyjj

[BillsShredder83]

7 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Ok here

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2022/04/21/2022-nfl-draft-skyy-moore-scouting-report/

 

If Schoen and Daboll are passing on Toney have to believe Beane and Dorsey will too.  If I were you I'd lower your expectations here based on that. 

I like Skyy Moore but they aren't comparable at all. First Skyy can only play outside, Toney has played in slot, outside, and in the backfield. Moore just can't do what Toney can on the short routes, and thats my point nobody can. Their 40 times are close, but nowhere near the same acceleration.  MAC vs SEC player. 

 

I get this isnt the type of player we go after, but why? You're an NFL coach, you might have to work with a guy whos difficult... so what? We've built a staff/locker room that should be able to get this guy to buy in. Isnt that part of the reason you build a team like this? The finishing piece can be a guy with some concerns but ABSOLUTELY ELITE talents. Look at what Hill did for the rest of the Chiefs offense, now he's gone, and nobody is worried about KC.  Game breaker, and I want one

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I like Skyy Moore but they aren't comparable at all. First Skyy can only play outside, Toney has played in slot, outside, and in the backfield. Moore just can't do what Toney can on the short routes, and thats my point nobody can. Their 40 times are close, but nowhere near the same acceleration.  MAC vs SEC player. 

 

I get this isnt the type of player we go after, but why? You're an NFL coach, you might have to work with a guy whos difficult... so what? We've built a staff/locker room that should be able to get this guy to buy in. Isnt that part of the reason you build a team like this? The finishing piece can be a guy with some concerns but ABSOLUTELY ELITE talents. Look at what Hill did for the rest of the Chiefs offense, now he's gone, and nobody is worried about KC.  Game breaker, and I want one

 

I don't know why Daboll and Schoen are keen to move off him, maybe it is all character issues, I don't pretend to have the answer on that. I do, however, know that my biggest knock on him coming out was route running. He has some Stevie Johnson in him. He runs every route his own way, he is sloppy coming out of breaks and he doesn't get to his landmarks consistently. There is no doubt he is dynamic with the ball in his hands, but if you think about the Daboll offense it is about sharp, precise route running that requires the receivers to read the defense and adjust their routes and puts a lot on their plate in that regard. Someone who does his own thing like Toney doesn't scream immediate fit. Whether it works for the Bills depends on how much Dorsey is sticking with what they had, and how much he is willing to adjust. Whether it is worth it price wise depends on how much the Giants are after and what the truth is character wise. 

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

The finishing piece can be a guy with some concerns but ABSOLUTELY ELITE talents. Look at what Hill did for the rest of the Chiefs offense, now he's gone, and nobody is worried about KC.  Game breaker, and I want one

I get you like his potential, but that is all there is.  Note no end zone shots of him last year...cuz he never got there!  Comparing him to Tyreek Hill is comical - no comparison.  

[BillsShredder83]

24 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

I get you like his potential, but that is all there is.  Note no end zone shots of him last year...cuz he never got there!  Comparing him to Tyreek Hill is comical - no comparison.  

 

agree to disagree lol i aint mad. the whole situation reminded me of matt nagey and allen robinson last year, he only played 9 games. he got put in the doghouse, and even when he saw the field he was treated as an after thought. theres 0 reason to not get that dude 3 or 4 bubble screens , 1 or 2 end arounds, anything to get the ball in his hands.

hell golladay had zero TD's and 500 yards playing most of a season. their OC from last year is in the freaking USFL 😆 dan jones sucked, then he got hurt, then Mike Freaking Glennon, and Jake Fromm. Hot dumpster fire!!!

 

anyways im beating a dead horse, but if buff cant get him I hope he stays in NY. be cool to see what Dabs can do with him. i will s*** out my **** if he winds up in KC. id make the trade to block them alone.

[BillsfaninChicago]

If he goes to the Panthers first then it is a sure bet he will be a Bill.

[freddyjj]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

. i will s*** out my **** if he winds up in KC. id make the trade to block them alone

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2022/04/22/kadarius-toney-trade-horrible-idea-kansas-city-chiefs/#:~:text=Toney%2C 

 

So you can get some rest my brother. 

 

[DCofNC]

Sketchy at best they will let a first rounder go after that short of time. Flip a 5th and a conditional 4th next year, can go to a 3rd w 1000 all purpose yards, no pick traded if he’s not on the roster for 2023.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2022/04/22/kadarius-toney-trade-horrible-idea-kansas-city-chiefs/#:~:text=Toney%2C 

 

So you can get some rest my brother. 

 

Suspended in college for “not living up to the Gator standard” is pretty hilarious.

 

I’d probably do it for a 3d or 4th…

[Yantha]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't know why Daboll and Schoen are keen to move off him, maybe it is all character issues, I don't pretend to have the answer on that. I do, however, know that my biggest knock on him coming out was route running. He has some Stevie Johnson in him. He runs every route his own way, he is sloppy coming out of breaks and he doesn't get to his landmarks consistently. There is no doubt he is dynamic with the ball in his hands, but if you think about the Daboll offense it is about sharp, precise route running that requires the receivers to read the defense and adjust their routes and puts a lot on their plate in that regard. Someone who does his own thing like Toney doesn't scream immediate fit. Whether it works for the Bills depends on how much Dorsey is sticking with what they had, and how much he is willing to adjust. Whether it is worth it price wise depends on how much the Giants are after and what the truth is character wise. 

Good points.  I guess the hope when they drafted him was to coach him to being less sloppy but his character just wouldn't allow it.

 

Being an NFL football player is a privilege and I can't stand "attitude players".

 

Send him to McDonalds for minimum wage.

[freddyjj]

50 minutes ago, mannc said:

Suspended in college for “not living up to the Gator standard” is pretty hilarious.

 

I’d probably do it for a 3d or 4th…

Yeah he didn't have felony charges after 2 years on campus so they suspended him 😎

[Einstein's Dog]

I would like to get K Toney and Bradberry (at half salary)  for a 3rd and Epenesa.

 

This would make toney a low risk add-on, either he shows a change in attitude or he is gone and the Bills still have filled the CB spot.

 

For the Giants they would get reduced salary and have the new team make a strong stand against head cases.

[H2o]

This situation reminds me a lot of what the Titans went through with Isaiah Wilson a year ago. Wilson, a former 1st Round pick, was traded to the Dolphins and bounced into the street. He's not in the league right now, 2 years after being a first round pick. 

[Doc]

I'd change my mind on trading for him if they can get him for a day 3 pick.  He'd be under contract for 3 years (including this one) with no guaranteed money.

[BillsShredder83]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'd change my mind on trading for him if they can get him for a day 3 pick.  He'd be under contract for 3 years (including this one) with no guaranteed money.

I gotta say if Beane is interested (not saying he is) you'd think we have the inside track to land him.

 

Our front offices have close ties and its cross conference. Seems like a good candidate to move during draft day to move around the board.

[SCBills]

My favorite part of this is that, should we even have a conversation about potentially trading for a guy like KT, based on Beane’s comments.. it seems he would 100% talk to Josh about it.   And I would love to hear that convo. 
 

KT is a talented player, but has a ton of red flags in terms of him being a team guy.  He’s not a burner, but might be one of the quickest twitch open space athletes I have ever seen.  
 

If he could be had for a Day 3 pick(s), and the character concerns are assuaged, he’d be worth it for the 4-5 bubble screens/open space plays per game under a rookie contract for 4 more years. 

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I gotta say if Beane is interested (not saying he is) you'd think we have the inside track to land him.

 

Our front offices have close ties and its cross conference. Seems like a good candidate to move during draft day to move around the board.

 

Yup.  Was thinking of mentioning it.  Thanks for doing that.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

21 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If he could be had for a Day 3 pick(s), and the character concerns are assuaged, he’d be worth it for the 4-5 bubble screens/open space plays per game under a rookie contract for 4 more years. 

For this year at least I wonder if both he and McKenzie could make the roster or if they would be redundant. 

[The Jokeman]

I felt going into the draft last year he could be a Percy Harvin type, now he's proving it off the field too. Just reading on his behavior last off-season and this off-season I have big doubts on his desire to play football. Let someone else risk it.

[NewEra]

I’d trade a 3rd for him.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

A packet of 1980s wine gums?

Jelly babies.