oldmanfan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Back in the day many criticized Overdorf when we didn’t keep guys or sign FAs. But I always believed he was just carrying out what the cheap SOB Littman wanted. But Overdorf as the cap guy (along with Beane of course) now has really done a heckuva job this offseason. Props to him. 23 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Fair enough. It does look like they're pulling out every tool in the 🧰 this year, and we don't look TOO terrible for future years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Ralph was cheap. 3 1 5 4 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 The Pegula's are letting him and Beane spend. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Man that’s a name I haven’t heard in awhile (Littman) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Smith Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I didn't know he was still here? Good job nonetheless. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Just now, Clyde Smith said: I didn't know he was still here? Good job nonetheless. He is here but Beane is a “cap guy” as in that is the meat of his FO background. So he works for Beane, but Beane is likely very involved. In the past for example a GM like Whaley, who came up the ranks with a heavy pro scouting background , overdorf really had a lot more to do with the cap because that’s his role and Whaley had to lean on him. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Back in the day many criticized Overdorf when we didn’t keep guys or sign FAs. But I always believed he was just carrying out what the cheap SOB Littman wanted. But Overdorf as the cap guy (along with Beane of course) now has really done a heckuva job this offseason. Props to him. He’s probably good but the difference between this administration and past one is that Beane and company seem to understand the salary cap. Whaley was especially clueless. 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He is here but Beane is a “cap guy” as in that is the meat of his FO background. So he works for Beane, but Beane is likely very involved. In the past for example a GM like Whaley, who came up the ranks with a heavy pro scouting background , overdorf really had a lot more to do with the cap because that’s his role and Whaley had to lean on him. I would argue though that Whaley didn’t really understand the salary cap. The Bills were always in a pretty bad cap situation, without having to pay a QB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JohnNord said: He’s probably good but the difference between this administration and past one is that Beane and company seem to understand the salary cap. Whaley was especially clueless. I would argue though that Whaley didn’t really understand the salary cap. The Bills were always in a pretty bad cap situation, without having to pay a QB That’s not arguing - that’s exactly what I’m saying. Whaley didn’t know the cap stuff and leaned on overdorf for that stuff. Beane does, that’s his area of expertise, and overdorf just works for him in that space. Edited March 24, 2022 by YoloinOhio 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 35 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Back in the day many criticized Overdorf when we didn’t keep guys or sign FAs. But I always believed he was just carrying out what the cheap SOB Littman wanted. But Overdorf as the cap guy (along with Beane of course) now has really done a heckuva job this offseason. Props to him. its been pretty simple manipulations we just aren’t used to seeing them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 15 minutes ago, White Linen said: The Pegula's are letting him and Beane spend. With a salary cap,what do you mean "letting him and Beane spend"? Are you referring to paying bonuses up- front? It's the same amount of money overall. That can get you into a bad cap situation but Beane is keeping it under cmder control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 42 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Back in the day many criticized Overdorf when we didn’t keep guys or sign FAs. But I always believed he was just carrying out what the cheap SOB Littman wanted. But Overdorf as the cap guy (along with Beane of course) now has really done a heckuva job this offseason. Props to him. Funny how you think it was Littman. Unless Ralph Wilson's alias was Littman you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First Round Bust Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) poor Whaley was mentored by good ole Buddy Nix, who didnt get the NFL transformation to the passing game was key...and if Whaley did,...the two #1 traded for Watkins and the selection of EJ Manuel in the first round, each by themselves are just cause for terminatiion... Edited March 24, 2022 by First Round Bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Our cap issues in the past were 2 fold - 1) We had the edict "cash to the cap", which is to say we were NOT spending up to the cap, ie Ralph is cheap 2) We saddled ourselves w/ burdensome contracts. That isn't so much a cap issue, but rather a talent assessment problem. ie we were giving lots of $ to people that didn't live up to their contracts. Related to #2 - I've noticed that we now have a few contracts that are "burdensome" (Allen, White, Miller & I think a few more). Hopefully, these guys continue to live up to their contracts; if they don't we'll be in trouble in the next few yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Shout, shout, let it all out. These are the things I can do without. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 14 minutes ago, Beast said: Funny how you think it was Littman. Unless Ralph Wilson's alias was Littman you are wrong. 15 minutes ago, Beast said: Funny how you think it was Littman. Unless Ralph Wilson's alias was Littman you are wrong. I have always felt that, when Ralph was getting older, it was Littman who screwed things up. He had a small percentage ownership stake so he wanted to save $$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, eSJayDee said: Related to #2 - I've noticed that we now have a few contracts that are "burdensome" (Allen, White, Miller & I think a few more). Hopefully, these guys continue to live up to their contracts; if they don't we'll be in trouble in the next few yrs. Burdensome contracts for a franchise QB who’s top 3 in the league, an all pro corner and a HOF DE on a 3 year deal. Seriously, you can’t beat a Super Bowl contender without a few superstars and you have to pay them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 29 minutes ago, Georgie said: With a salary cap,what do you mean "letting him and Beane spend"? Are you referring to paying bonuses up- front? It's the same amount of money overall. That can get you into a bad cap situation but Beane is keeping it under cmder control. What that means is they are paying out more cash. It doesn’t get you into a bad cap situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Shout, shout, let it all out. These are the things I can do without. Come on! I'm talking to you! Come on! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: Back in the day many criticized Overdorf when we didn’t keep guys or sign FAs. But I always believed he was just carrying out what the cheap SOB Littman wanted. But Overdorf as the cap guy (along with Beane of course) now has really done a heckuva job this offseason. Props to him. Good thing we didn't clean house like everyone wanted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, The Wiz said: 25 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Shout, shout, let it all out. These are the things I can do without. What a classic. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 39 minutes ago, Beast said: Funny how you think it was Littman. Unless Ralph Wilson's alias was Littman you are wrong. You just proved opposite. You are always wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, Beast said: Funny how you think it was Littman. Unless Ralph Wilson's alias was Littman you are wrong. I think it was pretty well known back then that Littman was very influential with Wilson on how to spend, it rarely worked out well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, klos63 said: I think it was pretty well known back then that Littman was very influential with Wilson on how to spend, it rarely worked out well. Was it Overdorf or Littman the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAinLack. Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 37 minutes ago, boater said: What a classic. Love "Everybody wants to rule the World". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Georgie said: With a salary cap,what do you mean "letting him and Beane spend"? Are you referring to paying bonuses up- front? It's the same amount of money overall. That can get you into a bad cap situation but Beane is keeping it under cmder control. Ralph was a "cash to the cap" owner. Restructuring allows for the base salary to be lowered and the player gets money up front that's amortized over the remaining length of the contract. Pegula's are willing to allow that, Ralph wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, boater said: Was it Overdorf or Littman the problem? Depends on which problem. Overdorf was responsible making sure Bills were covered putting clauses in contact if players did something crazy like drag racing on county streets. Lots of agents pulled wool over his eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 39 minutes ago, boater said: Was it Overdorf or Littman the problem? I always felt Littman was poisonous to the organization 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 52 minutes ago, boater said: Was it Overdorf or Littman the problem? almost positive it was Littman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Captain_Quint said: Ralph was cheap. Ralph is dead the this is old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 The tricks used to stay under the salary cap often involve more money going out early on, with that upfront payment counting toward all the years of the contract. Millions of dollars of future salaries get converted to bonuses that get paid NOW. Doing that requires the Pegulas to approve large payments, well above the salary cap in most years. I've never seen any indication that Beane's hands are tied -- the Pegulas are letting him spend spend spend if that's what it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said: Fair enough. It does look like they're pulling out every tool in the 🧰 this year, and we don't look TOO terrible for future years. They will get choked when they have to pay Diggs, Knox, Edmunds and Oliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Back in the day many criticized Overdorf when we didn’t keep guys or sign FAs. But I always believed he was just carrying out what the cheap SOB Littman wanted. But Overdorf as the cap guy (along with Beane of course) now has really done a heckuva job this offseason. Props to him. Yeah, but I think Littman was just doing what RW instructed him to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eee1776 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Speaking of cap, is there anything they can do with Edmonds cap at 12 mil plus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, eee1776 said: Speaking of cap, is there anything they can do with Edmonds cap at 12 mil plus? It's a fifth year option. Unless they trade him, there's nothing you can do with that, I'm pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, MJS said: It's a fifth year option. Unless they trade him, there's nothing you can do with that, I'm pretty sure. Correct, unless they do a new deal with extension Edited March 25, 2022 by YoloinOhio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 18 hours ago, Captain_Quint said: Ralph was cheap. Ralph wasn't perfect as few of us are. There's several things that I can point to as weaknesses with him and his ownership of the club. That said there are so many more positives than those. I don't think the AFL would have survived without him and there would be no Buffalo Bills today. I for one am grateful to Ralph and now the Pegula's for keeping this team in Buffalo and resisting the pressure to leave for a larger market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 16 hours ago, boater said: Was it Overdorf or Littman the problem? The problem was always Ralph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 What happened during the Ralph Wilson years is over. All that matters now is Brandon Beane is the GM and he sets the parameters in which the FO works. Overdorf works under those guidelines and does a great job doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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