Bills 2021 rookie class ranked 27th in league

[BillsFan619]

Here’s the link. Thoughts?
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-2021-rookie-class-does-161553746.html

 

I thought Groot was showing promise after his INT of Mahomes in KC but he seemed to peter out after that.

 

Spencer Brown was the best of the 2021 Bills rookie class. He could have a great 2nd year.

Edited February 5, 2022 by BillsFan619

[Long Suffering Fan]

Aside from the fact that it is way too early to really tell the impact of this rookie class, this was the headline of the article:

 

Bills 2021 rookie class does not fare well in ESPN ranking

 

And they ranked them 27th.  Considering the Bills picked 30th, wouldn't that make them slightly above average?  That article is saying that the Bills outperformed their draft position, but then also says they did not fare well.  😕

[Nextmanup]

2 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

And they ranked them 27th.  Considering the Bills picked 30th, wouldn't that make them slightly above average?  That article is saying that the Bills outperformed their draft position, but then also says they did not fare well.  😕

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

 

 

[BillsFan130]

I'm not sure of the other teams 7 round picks but I think it's fair to say bills draft class was a bit underwhelming. (It's still super early of course)

 

Groot- Started off good then hit the rookie wall a bit

 

Basham- Inactive half the time. Made some plays when he was in.

 

Brown- Probably the most exciting. Lots of highs but definitely some lows

 

Doyle- Found a bit of a role at the end of the year but ultimately didn't do a lot.

 

Stevenson- Injured and then inactive for a lot of the time.

 

Wildgoose- Plucked off the practice squad.

 

Anderson- Plucked off the practice squad.

 

So ultimately their rookies didn't contribute a lot.

 

Brown probably had the most important role.

 

I am optimistic about Groot and Brown for the future. For the others I'm not so sure

Edited February 5, 2022 by BillsFan130

[Conlan58]

Based on this regimes draft history vs. trade history- I would not bat an eye at them deciding to package this years first and maybe another later pick for a proven commodity like they did with the Diggs trade. 

[Long Suffering Fan]

14 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

It actually does work that way.  Drafting at the top is an advantage.  Of course, that does not make your team instantly good....or ever good.  As you mention, see the Sabres.

 

If you draft bad, you can fritter away your draft position, but there is a reason that teams trade up.

[KDIGGZ]

I think they got 2 starters and 2 solid backups out of this draft. When you are a team that's in the final 4 the year before it's hard to find players that can even make your roster let alone get a lot of playing time. This year we need DL and CB help and I'd like them to get a McKenzie type speedster and a short yardage RB

[SCBills]

Hopefully the Basham pick works out and he shows more in a bigger role next year… but when your 2nd RD pick is a luxury pick that barely plays, I wouldn’t expect a high draft grade after one year… especially being late in the draft order.  
 

Rousseau and Brown show a lot of promise, but outside of them, not much to really write home about yet… especially when two picks were plucked off the PS. 

[Pbomb]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

 

 

It has? Multiple starters every year, have you seen other teams drafts? 

[MJS]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

Do you ever get bored of being so wrong about everything?

[eSJayDee]

Interesting point that we're 27th after picking 30th.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  Not sure it's correct, but it certainly puts you at a disadvantage. (A top 10 Blue chip is certainly more likely to have a big impact relative to a late 1st rounder.)

But I think where we need to be graded on a curve is that we started off w/ an already solid roster, so there's less chance to contribute & make an impact. 

 

Our top 2 picks were D-line & w/ our rotational system & w/ the other players, did you really expect much  more?  Perhaps Groot could've been better.  We got a starter in the 3rd round.  And although our later picks didn't contribute to our success, other teams thought enough of them to pilfer them.

 

The fact that we didn't need them to contribute is a good thing.  Let's see what becomes of them this yr.  Potentially Groot & Basham will take over & be the more dominant ends.  If Doyle & Stevenson manage to stick around, all the better.

[Brand J]

Don’t know where the Chiefs draft ranks, but without a 1st round pick and selecting later than us, I know they had a better draft - Bolton, Humphrey, and Smith look to be high end starters.

[JGMcD2]

37 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

This is not true. This topic has been discussed to exhaustion. 
 

Just because you continue to repeat it, doesn’t make it true. 

[JoPoy88]

Way to early to make any sort of meaningful judgment on the ‘21 class. About the only thing you can say is Beane did not hit an immediate homerun with any of those picks. That’s fine, there’s only a handful of those every year.

[Boatdrinks]

It’s a fair assessment for now. Of course , a draft still takes a few seasons to get a true grade. As was brought up, the Chiefs were a final four team as well and got more out of their picks than the Bills. Brown made a solid and important contribution to the Bills OL in 2021. If he’s a long term RT and Rousseau turns into a dependable pass rushing threat the draft will be a good one. If the Bills had selected Humphrey,  they’d probably get an A. 

[Mango]

McBeane has struggled to find immediate impact in the draft. Especially in the top 100 picks.

This entire board has shown concern for that the last few years.

 

But one article points that out and everybody gets a stick up their butt.

 

Our best pick so far was Brown. By far. Groot was not exciting. Basham couldn’t get on the field. 
 

McBeane have to be better here. Have to! Allen is still only taking $16M next year. We can’t afford to have players in the top 100 picks come on just before new contracts (Oliver, Harry)

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

McBeane has struggled to find immediate impact in the draft. Especially in the top 100 picks.

This entire board has shown concern for that the last few years.

 

But one article points that out and everybody gets a stick up their butt.

 

Our best pick so far was Brown. By far. Groot was not exciting. Basham couldn’t get on the field. 
 

McBeane have to be better here. Have to! Allen is still only taking $16M next year. We can’t afford to have players in the top 100 picks come on just before new contracts (Oliver, Harry)

For some reason, that's how these online sports forums are.

 

They are predominantly made up of kool aid drinkers incapable of critical objective analysis.

 

Here is the irony---those who defend Edmunds now (for example) will make jokes about him the moment we move on from him and he is on some other team.

 

It never fails! 

 

😯

[Iverwig]

3 minutes ago, Mango said:

McBeane has struggled to find immediate impact in the draft. Especially in the top 100 picks.

This entire board has shown concern for that the last few years.

 

But one article points that out and everybody gets a stick up their butt.

 

Our best pick so far was Brown. By far. Groot was not exciting. Basham couldn’t get on the field. 
 

McBeane have to be better here. Have to! Allen is still only taking $16M next year. We can’t afford to have players in the top 100 picks come on just before new contracts (Oliver, Harry)

Unfortunately, CMcD doesn’t seem to trust rookies much so it will be hard for a rookie to breakout their year unless they are truly elite. Even with an elite player I don’t see CMcD trusting them much especially if they make a mistake.
 

Either way I get why they rank the classes but it’s too early. 

[Mango]

6 minutes ago, Iverwig said:

Unfortunately, CMcD doesn’t seem to trust rookies much so it will be hard for a rookie to breakout their year unless they are truly elite. Even with an elite player I don’t see CMcD trusting them much especially if they make a mistake.
 

Either way I get why they rank the classes but it’s too early. 

AJE isn’t bad because of McD. I don’t think Basham is a healthy scratch more often than not because he’s a rookie. Tre was a full one starter his rookie year. Groot is 2 in DE snap counts slightly behind Hughes. Oliver Lead DT in snap counts his rookie year. Edmunds was a full time Starter day 1. 

[Thurman#1]

This is what happens with teams who draft very late.

 

First, you don't get a shot till in this case 29 other teams have picked. And second your roster is a ton stronger and it's hard for rookies to get many snaps.

 

It's just what happens. In a few years we'll have a better idea.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Southern_Bills]

A bit unfair for last year's draft class. 

 

Oliver and Edmunds, yeah it's deserved. They should have been better sooner, still waiting on Edmunds. 

 

But teams that draft late are good teams, so chance of an immediate impact is fairly slim. It happens but not every year.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

 

 

 

 

That's just nonsense. Their drafting has been pretty good. Which is a lot of the reason they made the Championship game last year and the Division game this year.

 

It does work that way. Precisely that way. "There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality," you say? Well, yeah, exactly. Some teams overperform, some underperform and some seem to get quality about at the level you'd expect. Yeah, exactly. The teams that overperform their draft spot are doing a good job, even if they're the #30 team and they're not getting ranked after one year as high as teams that drafted in the top five. It would be wildly unreasonable to expect them to do so..

 

27th certainly isn't great or anything, even for a team that drafted 30th. But it's not bad at all. The Bills didn't get a chance at relatively easy victories like Kyle Pitts or J'Marr Chase or Micah Parsons or Vera-Tucker. Drafting high sure doesn't guarantee success. But it makes it easier, in every round but particularly the earlier ones. And the earlier rounds are the ones most likely to have showed well after only a year.

[NewEra]

Interesting that every player drafted by Beane in 2021 was on an active roster throughout the majority of the season. 

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

A bit unfair for last year's draft class. 

 

Oliver and Edmunds, yeah it's deserved. They should have been better sooner, still waiting on Edmunds. 

 

But teams that draft late are good teams, so chance of an immediate impact is fairly slim. It happens but not every year.

 

 

You may still be waiting on Edmunds. But a large majority actually get it. There are indeed some folks who still have a problem with Edmunds. Not the folks at OBD. Certainly not most folks around the league. It's mostly a small group of Buffalo fans who seem to always be looking for a scapegoat.

 

And Oliver plays a position that takes time, it just does. He was good the first year and has improved consistently and this year was excellent. He's a very good pick.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You may still be waiting on Edmunds. There are indeed some folks who still have a problem with Edmunds. Not the folks at OBD. Certainly not most folks around the league. It's mostly a small group of Buffalo fans who seem to always be looking for a scapegoat.

 

You continue to say “small group”….. the group is much bigger than you portray.  
 

The  “small group” you are talking about thinks he terrible.  
 

the much bigger group that you never mention thinks that he’s not worthy of getting paid what he will be paid next year and aren’t sure if paying him that money is a smart decision.

 

you act as if everyone’s thoughts on Edmunds reside in either black and white,  while the reality is, most reside in the grey area.  
 

I certainly don’t think the guy is trash.  I just don’t think he’s as good as some, you included, say that he is.  His physical being is and always will be his best attribute.  That’s not usually the case for the great MLBs. 

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You may still be waiting on Edmunds. There are indeed some folks who still have a problem with Edmunds. Not the folks at OBD. Certainly not most folks around the league. It's mostly a small group of Buffalo fans who seem to always be looking for a scapegoat.

When asked in his season ending presser about Edmunds, Beane essentially said he “does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up.” That was his biggest praise. He didn’t sound at all like a GM who was ready to sign Edmunds to a long term extension.

 

Since his rookie year, Edmunds makes almost no impact plays (INTs, FFs, FRs, sacks) and still makes many of the same mistakes. Brace yourself for disappointment when Edmunds moves on after his 5th year option. You’ve been by far his loudest supporter. It’s not “a small group of fans” as you alluded to, it’s the majority - proven by the poll here where 75% of TBDers want to move on from Edmunds in some fashion. We’d all love for Tremaine to be a player other teams have to game plan or account for, but I don’t think he’ll ever get to that point. He is what he is and it’s closer to a JAG than playmaker.

[HamSandwhich]

I feel as though a lot of people are sleeping on Basham, he’s flashed a few times this year when he got it. He could certainly be something moving forward. 

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Interesting that every player drafted by Beane in 2021 was on an active roster throughout the majority of the season. 

 

 

I thought it was a solid draft.

 

Didn't care for the Basham pick but better to take a swing at a pass rusher in round 2 than a player at a position they could fill inexpensively in UFA.

 

TDN recently did a "re-draft" and Groot went 21st overall.

 

He was good......the most productive of the DE's in the class..........he tied for the NFL lead in run stops with 32 despite being a rotational player.

 

Brown showed a lot of promise at RT for someone who on paper looked like a guy who would definitely need a redshirt season or two.

 

What hurt the appearance of their draft was carrying so many veterans on the roster which kept rookies on the bench and cost them guys like Wildgoose and Anderson.

 

Hopefully Beane doesn't f*ck around with re-structures for some of these guys(Feliciano, Beasley etc..) this offseason who need to be cut outright and then replace that veteran quantity with quality and then all of this years draft picks can stick.

 

Pay cuts don't work,  Beane.   Every one he has offered and was accepted lead to diminishing returns or player regret.

Edited February 5, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

20 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

When asked in his season ending presser about Edmunds, Beane essentially said he “does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up.” That was his biggest praise. He didn’t sound at all like a GM who was ready to sign Edmunds to a long term extension.

 

Since his rookie year, Edmunds makes almost no impact plays (INTs, FFs, FRs, sacks) and still makes many of the same mistakes. Brace yourself for disappointment when Edmunds moves on after his 5th year option. You’ve been by far his loudest supporter. It’s not “a small group of fans” as you alluded to, it’s the majority - proven by the poll here where 75% of TBDers want to move on from Edmunds in some fashion. We’d all love for Tremaine to be a player other teams have to game plan or account for, but I don’t think he’ll ever get to that point. He is what he is and it’s closer to a JAG than playmaker.

I noticed that too.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

 

You continue to say “small group”….. the group is much bigger than you portray.  
 

The  “small group” you are talking about thinks he terrible.  
 

the much bigger group that you never mention thinks that he’s not worthy of getting paid what he will be paid next year and aren’t sure if paying him that money is a smart decision.

 

you act as if everyone’s thoughts on Edmunds reside in either black and white,  while the reality is, most reside in the grey area.  
 

I certainly don’t think the guy is trash.  I just don’t think he’s as good as some, you included, say that he is.  His physical being is and always will be his best attribute.  That’s not usually the case for the great MLBs. 

 

 

No.

 

Look around the league. Look in the locker room. He's a two-time Pro Bowler. Most folks aren't in that grey area.

 

Most of what you are calling the grey area I believe still just don't get it. Where are the folks in the locker room who say he's in this grey area you mention? Are they the ones who've voted him captain three years in a row? The ones who picked up his $12M option? 

 

A lot of your grey group indeed thinks he's not worthy of what he'll be paid next year. Where are all those folks in he locker room. They aren't in Beane's office. The Bills love the guy.

 

Great MLBs don't have great physical attributes? Seriously? That's what you're arguing? Yeah, I'd call that nonsense. Edmunds is indeed tall, rangy and fast, but he's also brainy, a leader, willing to play hurt, tough and excellent in the pass game.

 

There are a few great MLBs who weren't physically trait-packed, Zach Thomas for example. But they are few and far between. Most great MLBs (and other positions besides) wouldn't have become great if they didn't have terrific physical traits. Butkus was strong as a horse and hard-hitting, and that was his main attribute, though he had others. 

 

This grey are you mention is indeed bigger than the ones who think he sucks. But it still isn't a big group and nearly all of them are Buffalo fans. If I could maybe attempt to find a middle ground with you, I'd argue that of the people you are calling the grey area, I'd agree with probably a lof of what the group higher in that grey area might think. Most folks lower down it's clear they disagree with McDermott and Beane, the Bills decision makers and the guys in the locker room

 

In any case, do you see me writing the kind of post I wrote above to more measured posts about the guy, outside of posts that are specifically talking to me like this one? Or more often to the nutballs and fruitcakes with the desperate need to denigrate him whether or not it requires a thread be napped?

 

There certainly is room for discussion on the guy. Anyone who says he's elite is as wrong as the folks screaming about how awful he is. He's got his faults, there's a lot of room for intelligent reasonable criticism. But most of what he gets isn't that. The loudest voices on him are the least worth listening to, I'd say. 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Thurman#1

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I thought it was a solid draft.

 

Didn't care for the Basham pick but better to take a swing at a pass rusher in round 2 than a player at a position they could fill inexpensively in UFA.

 

TDN recently did a "re-draft" and Groot went 21st overall.

 

He was good......the most productive of the DE's in the class..........he tied for the NFL lead in run stops with 32 despite being a rotational player.

 

Brown showed a lot of promise at RT for someone who on paper looked like a guy who would definitely need a redshirt season or two.

 

What hurt the appearance of their draft was carrying so many veterans on the roster which kept rookies on the bench and cost them guys like Wildgoose and Anderson.

 

Hopefully Beane doesn't f*ck around with re-structures for some of these guys(Feliciano, Beasley etc..) this offseason who need to be cut outright and then replace that veteran quantity with quality and then all of this years draft picks can stick.

 

Pay cuts don't work,  Beane.   Every one he has offered and was accepted lead to diminishing returns or player regret.

There is no need to cut Beasley to make room for a draft pick, or as I've advocated for, two.

 

Diggs

Davis

Beasley

WR draft pick

Slot draft pick

Kumerow if you like

[billsfan89]

Brown started along the Oline and played fairly well. Groot played a heavy rotation role and was productive and Boogie played a small rotation role and flashed a little. The only other impact the Bills got from the draft class was Doyle as a jumbo tackle role player.

 

Overall it wasn’t the most short term impact draft class but it has some potential if just Brown and Groot pan out that at the worst a solid draft class.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Here’s the link. Thoughts?
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-2021-rookie-class-does-161553746.html

 

I thought Groot was showing promise after his INT of Mahomes in KC but he seemed to peter out after that.

 

Spencer Brown was the best of the 2021 Bills rookie class. He could have a great 2nd year.

 

Not surprising when you factor in the Bills top 2 picks were defensive lineman, a position with alot of depth, was hard for rookies to find much playing time.  Also have to factor in this is a deep team with not many needs.  So not surprising that rookies didn't play very much.  Actually what was surprising was that as many even made the roster.

 

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

 

 

 

You're right, they only made the playoffs 4 or past 5 years and finished final 4 and final 8 past two years.

[st pete gogolak]

How's our 2018 draft grading out? s/

[SCBills]

44 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You may still be waiting on Edmunds. But a large majority actually get it. There are indeed some folks who still have a problem with Edmunds. Not the folks at OBD. Certainly not most folks around the league. It's mostly a small group of Buffalo fans who seem to always be looking for a scapegoat.

 

And Oliver plays a position that takes time, it just does. He was good the first year and has improved consistently and this year was excellent. He's a very good pick.

Im not down on Beane’s drafting, but I do think we need more immediate impact players.  
 

Drafting DL, outside of Oliver, in the late 1st/2nd inevitably means those guys will likely take some time.  
 

Same with a TE outside the top 15 or so.  
 

Same with a 10 year old Linebacker (I kid, kind of)

 

Problem is, we have no idea if Edmunds is worth a big contract and are now stuck in limbo paying him 5th year money.  I don’t care how young he is, that doesn’t mean we have to pay him any less.  
 

Knox has finally broken out… and now we are a year away from having to pay him.  
 

At some point we need guys we draft high to step in and contribute immediately.  
 

In fairness, that’s more likely to happen when drafting positions outside of the notorious “development positions” in EDGE and TE. 

[Buffalo716]

You can't rank a rookie class after 1 season 

 

Amateurs 

 

Every football coach knows that football players don't come equally.. some come in basically maxed out but ready to compete 

 

And some take a few years of seasoning then really turn it on 

 

The biggest weakness of our scouting department during the drought era was projecting players to the NFL  

 

It's not about who's the better football player day one.. it's about who's the better football player year 3.. the bills really struggled at that for a long time 

 

Our scouts have really turned the page on that

[Norcalbillsfan]

Of course groot and Boogie aren't gonna grade well, the bills run a rotational D line. Snaps are hard to come by especially as a rookie. No matter how good they are they aren't going to stack up massive sack numbers cuz they aren't on the feild as much as many D lineman in the league.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

There is no need to cut Beasley to make room for a draft pick, or as I've advocated for, two.

 

Diggs

Davis

Beasley

WR draft pick

Slot draft pick

Kumerow if you like

 

The need is to clear that $7.5M off of the books.    Beasley hit the wall hard in 2022.   

 

The way cap hits work...........you could easily ink Von Miller or Cam Jordan(if released) on a backloaded deal with LESS than that amount of 2022 cap space...........it's a huge amount for a slot receiver whose on his last legs.

 

Braxton Berrios has been mentioned as a replacement...........All Pro return man who is an ascending player from the slot but hasn't yet put up the numbers to get grossly overpaid in UFA..........and the Jets may want to keep him but they already have a guy in Elijah Moore that could develop into the league's best slot receiver in the next few years.

 

I will be shocked if Beasley isn't cut...........as Joe Schoen said in his Giants PC........the Bills were planning to have a bunch of money to spend in UFA............and we know that right now they have very little 2022 cap room..........and Beasley and Mitch Morse are the only big numbers they can create by cutting them.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

I feel as though a lot of people are sleeping on Basham, he’s flashed a few times this year when he got it. He could certainly be something moving forward. 

We’re sleeping on him because he was close to non existent this season.  As a 2nd rd pick, I expected more.  The coaches didn’t think he was better than a minimum salary Obada.

[HamSandwhich]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We’re sleeping on him because he was close to non existent this season.  As a 2nd rd pick, I expected more.  The coaches didn’t think he was better than a minimum salary Obada.

Sleep at your peril, I think he will be something.