If Dorsey leaves then what?

[Niagara Dude]

24 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I don't think Pederson and McDermott would get along.  

 

That would be like matter meeting anti-matter on the conservative scale.

 

 

Explain why you don't think they would not get along?  

[Matt_In_NH]

10 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Adam Gase

What is this name doing in here?

[MrEpsYtown]

19 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

What is this name doing in here?

To induce vomit, but also because he is an E-P system guy

[jwhit34]

So the playbook is the property of the team. Think about in the old days on cutdown day, the player getting released would get the call, "Coach wants to see you, bring your playbook." The OC and DCs have impact on what's in the playbook but it's the property of the team.

 

Regardless of who ends up being the next OC, they can take the existing playbook and modify it. I can see where the next OC comes in, reviews game film and sits down with key offensive personnel and figures out what plays and concepts worked best and the players liked, and then have the playbook evolve from there. Some will depend on personnel.

 

For continuity it would be best to keep Dorsey. But similar to the draft, they need to get the best coach available. It is one of the most attractive OC jobs in the league so they should have plenty of great candidates. 

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

Explain why you don't think they would not get along?  

I don't think he realizes they are actually friends.

[BuffaloRebound]

They are not letting Dorsey walk without getting somebody they think is better.  Dorsey ain’t picking Daniel Jones over Josh.  If Dorsey goes to Giants it’s because Bills weren’t offering him the OC job.  

[Donuts and Doritos]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

How can I say this?  I respect Sal Capaccio, but I think this is Radicchio.  How would any assistant credibly believe they are being interviewed for an OC position without the HC hired and in the loop (part of the interview process)?

 

Likewise, if it were to come out as true that the Giants were negotiating a contract with one guy before interviewing their OC candidates, that would not be "in good faith".

 

Also the chap who claimed they were already hard at work drafting Dorsey's contract is now walking it back

 

Hope you're right & we end up w/ Dorsey @ OC. 

[Codyny13]

Brian Daboll has been interviewing for 2 years now, Brandon Beane and Sean Mcdermott I’m sure have a plan and have had a plan for a long time. None of these current happenings are a surprise to anyone in that building. If their choice is to have Dorsey than great, maybe they want Dorsey but only at a certain price, maybe they’ve already had a conversation with Dorsey and he’s told them he wants a new challenge with a new QB. No matter what happens it’s all been entertained and the team has a shortlist for interviews once the smoke clears on Dorsey. We’ll be fine.

[BrooklynBills]

53 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

To induce vomit, but also because he is an E-P system guy

For this OC hire, E-P is secondary to having a strong grasp of the RPO game IMO. That's why the Bills were trying to transition to more zone blocking overall. It's a major part of our offense and Allen's success. I think they will want to continue that RPO stuff with a more effective ground game(means different style OL) while still taking deep shots down field.

 

To me, that screams Pederson as that was his whole offense those first years with Wentz. I know it ended poorly for him there but there were a lot of other factors going on. (Long story short: Wentz regression, FO made him bring in Scangerello and Morningweg which muddied up the offensive system, etc). He's a good offensive coach who actually got alot of the offensive talent that he had when you really step back and look at it.

 

The other RPO guy I'd like is Joe Brady. He definitely wants an NFL gig. Would have a connection to McD from both playing for Jimmye Laycock at William and Mary. He's currently rumored for the Miami Hurricanes OC job under Cristobal but we all know that Cristobal and McD run in the same circles and share philosophies so I think there's a strong connection there.

[Donuts and Doritos]

6 hours ago, Malazan said:

Yes, so.. your insanity that they got 'outmaneuvered' is silly. Dorsey wasn't the choice. 

So who is the choice? What I'm reading it is Dorsey & Bills are working to keep him, which makes sense as Allen clearly wants him. Sal's post that Giants could be ahead of the Bills on the hiring requirements & other reports that Giants were close to signing Dorsey sure looks like Giants 'outmaneuvered' us. That's neither 'insanity' or 'silly' it's just reading what reporters are saying. Hopefully the reports are wrong & the Bills get the guy they want.

[Turbo44]

I think the only way Dorsey goes to the Gints if if they throw a lot of $$ at him that BUF won’t match. It would be short-sighted for him to go to the Gints though if his goal is a HC gig 

[Hebert19]

12 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Reid and his guys are pure West Coast offense guys…Pederson, Nagy, Brad Childress etc etc

Well.  That solves YAC issue. 

 

Allen can fit any offense.  

1 hour ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

So who is the choice? What I'm reading it is Dorsey & Bills are working to keep him, which makes sense as Allen clearly wants him. Sal's post that Giants could be ahead of the Bills on the hiring requirements & other reports that Giants were close to signing Dorsey sure looks like Giants 'outmaneuvered' us. That's neither 'insanity' or 'silly' it's just reading what reporters are saying. Hopefully the reports are wrong & the Bills get the guy they want.

Doesn't mean we haven't talked to dorsey and haven't been all year.  Bills keep that stuff behind closed doors. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

17 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Allen can fit any offense.  

Doesn't mean we haven't talked to dorsey and haven't been all year.  Bills keep that stuff behind closed doors. 

 

Good point. 👍 Hope it works out.

[Utah John]

It's been a foregone conclusion all year that Daboll would get a HC job somewhere.  So are Bills trying to act like they're just getting started now, looking for a new OC?  That would be malpractice.  They should have been talking to Dorsey to see about his interest in the job, as well as making quiet inquiries around the league or colleges.  The Bills should have been in position to pull the chain on a new OC almost immediately after the Giants HC job was announced.  

[MrEpsYtown]

23 hours ago, BrooklynBills said:

For this OC hire, E-P is secondary to having a strong grasp of the RPO game IMO. That's why the Bills were trying to transition to more zone blocking overall. It's a major part of our offense and Allen's success. I think they will want to continue that RPO stuff with a more effective ground game(means different style OL) while still taking deep shots down field.

 

To me, that screams Pederson as that was his whole offense those first years with Wentz. I know it ended poorly for him there but there were a lot of other factors going on. (Long story short: Wentz regression, FO made him bring in Scangerello and Morningweg which muddied up the offensive system, etc). He's a good offensive coach who actually got alot of the offensive talent that he had when you really step back and look at it.

 

The other RPO guy I'd like is Joe Brady. He definitely wants an NFL gig. Would have a connection to McD from both playing for Jimmye Laycock at William and Mary. He's currently rumored for the Miami Hurricanes OC job under Cristobal but we all know that Cristobal and McD run in the same circles and share philosophies so I think there's a strong connection there.

Really starting to like the Joe Brady idea a lot. Young guy with fresh ideas who learned from the best. Matt Rhule is mouth breather who threw Brady under the bus. 

[T master]

Lets hope it doesn't get to that point i'm not a fan of completely changing schemes & more than likely with a new OC he will want all his guys so there would also be a bunch of turn over in the offensive coaching staff so i hope Beane gets this done soon so Dorcey doesn't get away because i think he has 2 shots at being a OC here & NY & i don't want Dabol to get him ... 

[Mr. WEO]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:39 PM, psuscott16 said:

Wonder what it would take to get Jordan Palmer as his QB coach

 

He is Josh's real QB coach.

[BrooklynBills]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Really starting to like the Joe Brady idea a lot. Young guy with fresh ideas who learned from the best. Matt Rhule is mouth breather who threw Brady under the bus. 

My worry with Brady is the little details of running an offense if he were to be the main guy. Very talented and creative coach but something in Carolina that was a problem was pass protection details. I think you'd need to pair him with other experienced offensive assistants. Not saying that isn't possible and there are coaches on the Saints staff that he would have relationships with that I'd be looking to poach but I don't think it's a situation where you could just drop him in as OC with our current staff.

 

I think Pederson is just more experienced for what we would need from the OC which really would be the #1 voice in the offensive room.

 

Dorsey would be somewhat status quo but with some question marks about how he will call games and lead weekly preparation. 

 

So I think my order would be:

 

1. Dorsey (and hope he takes the next steps as playcaller). Maybe bring in an experienced OC as an assistant.

 

2. Pederson

 

3. Brady

[Dr. Who]

My sense is the Bills want to promote from within. If Dorsey ends up with the Giants, I suspect Chad Hall will be considered. As a few posters have noted early in this thread, I think Pep Hamilton is an interesting outside name to consider.

[hondo in seattle]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:10 PM, Drifter said:

Other than Payton That's an underwhelming  list for our next OC.  Who wants old retreads?

 

"Who wants old retreads?"   That's what New England fans asked when they hired Bill Belichick.  And by Bills fans when we hired Brian Daboll. 

 

The accomplishments of an OC are limited by the talent of the offensive squad.  

 

Some experienced OCs will do great if you give him a QB like Josh.  We want one of those guys (if not Dorsey).

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by hondo in seattle

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

It's been a foregone conclusion all year that Daboll would get a HC job somewhere.  So are Bills trying to act like they're just getting started now, looking for a new OC?  That would be malpractice.  They should have been talking to Dorsey to see about his interest in the job, as well as making quiet inquiries around the league or colleges.  The Bills should have been in position to pull the chain on a new OC almost immediately after the Giants HC job was announced.  

 

Do you seriously think that McDermott and Beane haven't put in a lot of time on what to do if/when Daboll was to leave?

McDermott is meticulous about things like this and has a short list.  That being said a whole lot of other qualified NFL Offensive Assistant

Coaches would give their right arm to come to Buffalo as the OC.  Give OBD a few days to look at everything. 

[Nextmanup]

43 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

My sense is the Bills want to promote from within. If Dorsey ends up with the Giants, I suspect Chad Hall will be considered. As a few posters have noted early in this thread, I think Pep Hamilton is an interesting outside name to consider.

If Dorsey goes, I would NOT want us to promote positional coaches to be a first time ever OC...with no play calling experience no less!   No way!

 

We are one of the best teams in the league and have an elite offense.

 

You don't hand this car over to whoever is standing around in the garage...you go out and get one of the best driver's in the world to manage it.

 

Bring in talent and experience from the outside please, and make the new guy's job finding a way to seamlessly connect his new offense to what Daboll did in the past, so the learning curve for Josh is lessened.

 

The heavy lifting should be on the new OC, not Josh.

 

 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

If Dorsey goes, I would NOT want us to promote positional coaches to be a first time ever OC...with no play calling experience no less!   No way!

 

We are one of the best teams in the league and have an elite offense.

 

You don't hand this car over to whoever is standing around in the garage...you go out and get one of the best driver's in the world to manage it.

 

Bring in talent and experience from the outside please, and make the new guy's job finding a way to seamlessly connect his new offense to what Daboll did in the past, so the learning curve for Josh is lessened.

 

The heavy lifting should be on the new OC, not Josh.

 

 

I'm not advocating for Chad Hall, I'm just surmising what I think they might do. They are in position to get the best available OC. Who wouldn't want to work with Josh?

[Nextmanup]

34 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

"Who wants old retreads?"   That's what New England fans asked when they hired Bill Belichick.  And by Bills fans when we hired Brian Daboll. 

 

The accomplishments of an OC are limited by the talent of the offensive squad.  

 

Some experienced OCs will do great if you give him a QB like Josh.  We want one of those guys (if not Dorsey).

 

 

If you are evaluating OCs around the league based on final scores of their teams' games, you're doing it wrong.

 

Evaluate them on their offensive coordinating, which could be brilliant in a 3 TD loss.

 

 

[Big Turk]

I'd prefer Mike Shula...he was a fantastic OC...but I am sure he grew up hating the Bills...

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I'm not advocating for Chad Hall, I'm just surmising what I think they might do. They are in position to get the best available OC. Who wouldn't want to work with Josh?

It's not that someone wouldn't want to work with Josh, it's that some potential candidates might still be holding out for HC positions.

 

Doug Pederson comes to mind; I would put him near the top of my list but I'm not sure he is ready to take an OC job right now.  He's still probably waiting to get back into the league on the HC level.

 

 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

It's not that someone wouldn't want to work with Josh, it's that some potential candidates might still be holding out for HC positions.

 

Doug Pederson comes to mind; I would put him near the top of my list but I'm not sure he is ready to take an OC job right now.  He's still probably waiting to get back into the league on the HC level.

 

 

 

 

I share some of Gunner Bill's reservations on Pederson. His locker room was a complete wreck, though perhaps as OC that is not an issue. Another issue is Wentz regressed, though that may simply be a Wentz problem. So, I'm ambivalent, but could very well just be wrong about him. I certainly hope the Bills exercise patience and wait on a top tier candidate if they do not have one in hand, even if that means risking a fella might end up hired as a head coach somewhere. No reason for us to settle or just go with the familiar guy if there are better, excellent alternatives.

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

I will like to see the Bills go with a younger play caller. I like the fact that McDermott is looking at the Shawn McVay coaching tree if Dorsey leaves.  That means he is looking to add a different perspective to the offensive with a lot of boot legs and motion.

[Maynard]

Who of the McVay assistants are we looking at? Hadn’t heard this yet. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I must have missed something. Is it being reported that McD is looking at the McVay tree? Where is it being reported? Not that I don't believe you...just would like to read it for myself.

[MWK]

I hope this is true, but I haven't seen it. Where was this?

Edited January 31, 2022 by MWK

[T master]

Anything that i have read is that Beane is looking to promote someone from with in the organization which i for one am hoping its Dorsey .

 

He is younger & has had a good history with in different offenses and has a good relationship with Josh and although he may bring some change to the offensive scheme he knows the verbiage & can keep some semblance of familiarity to it which will help in the transition .

 

I think it's Dorsey's time i hope Beane does too .

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, T master said:

Anything that i have read is that Beane is looking to promote someone from with in the organization which i for one am hoping its Dorsey .

 

He is younger & has had a good history with in different offenses and has a good relationship with Josh and although he may bring some change to the offensive scheme he knows the verbiage & can keep some semblance of familiarity to it which will help in the transition .

 

I think it's Dorsey's time i hope Beane does too .

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the next OC is McD's call, not Beane's.   

 

Though those two seem to collaborate really well on big decisions - I'm sure Beane will be involved.  

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Let's get the band back together - Chan "the man" Gailey as OC and Fitz as backup qb. Then all we'll have to draft is a waterbug rb.

 

Boom! Super Bowl.

[Mat68]

On 1/30/2022 at 10:49 AM, BrooklynBills said:

My worry with Brady is the little details of running an offense if he were to be the main guy. Very talented and creative coach but something in Carolina that was a problem was pass protection details. I think you'd need to pair him with other experienced offensive assistants. Not saying that isn't possible and there are coaches on the Saints staff that he would have relationships with that I'd be looking to poach but I don't think it's a situation where you could just drop him in as OC with our current staff.

 

I think Pederson is just more experienced for what we would need from the OC which really would be the #1 voice in the offensive room.

 

Dorsey would be somewhat status quo but with some question marks about how he will call games and lead weekly preparation. 

 

So I think my order would be:

 

1. Dorsey (and hope he takes the next steps as playcaller). Maybe bring in an experienced OC as an assistant.

 

2. Pederson

 

3. Brady

Im not all in on any of them.  Pederson as an Oc is questionable.  Seemed Riech had the scheme and creativity. The questions with Brady, does he have an NFL passing attack?  I believe Chris Simms questioned some things with his offense a few weeks before he was fired.  Obviously, Dorsey is an unknown.  Of the three give me continuity and maintain the same offensive principles.

[Bangarang]

I’m surprised we haven’t heard anything about any potential candidates

[BigAl2526]

I hope is someone who incorporates Erhardt-Perkins and is creative.  I don't want the Bills to have to reinvent the wheel on offense.

[Jim Bob]

Bill O'Brien would be someone that I wouldn't be shocked if the Bills talked to if he wanted to get back into the NFL.

[Peter]

On 1/30/2022 at 11:47 AM, Big Turk said:

I'd prefer Mike Shula...he was a fantastic OC...but I am sure he grew up hating the Bills...

 

Fun story: I am friends with his sister. He was a coach in Tampa at the time of SB 25. The Bills had SB victory tee shirts made that they left in the locker room after the game. Mike retrieved one for me. I am not sure where I have it. I never had the heart to wear it.

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

They book the Glen Miller Orchestra? 🤷🏻‍♂️