Mic'd up: Kelce outsmarted McDermott/Frazier

[extrahammer]

Clearly we should hire Kelce as HC. 

[beebe]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

What I find so interesting about this is that for all the hype about coaching, scheming, and so on, there is still ENORMOUS room in the game for athletes to simply go out there, ad lib a little, and make plays.

 

Run to the open spot and I'll throw you the ball.  It doesn't have to be a lot more complicated than that.

 

Makes me realize how important having the horses is.  Gotta have the athletes...that's 98% of the battle.

 

This is encouraging, as I firmly believe Daboll will be gone in a few days.

 

With Josh and guys like Diggs, we should be OK.

 

 

Your comments echo what I just wrote myself.

 

It's not nearly as complicated as some would have you believe.

 

It's football--not AI development.

 

 

 

Well, I agree with your sentiment. But it also requires a coach/coaching staff who trusts their players and their instincts and values their input. That's what Andy has done in KC. When the Chiefs trailed by 10 pts, 8 mins left, facing 3rd-and-15 in the Super Bowl vs the 49ers, and Mahomes hit Tyreek deep, it was Mahomes - not Andy, not Bieniemy - who asked for that particular play call. 

 

I think McDermott is a really strong coach. He has his flaws like all of them do, and he's still learning, but from a leadership standpoint I think he is as good as anyone and he reminds me of a Mini Andy. That said, I think when push comes to shove, the Bills will ultimately realize that pairing Allen with an offensive minded head coach is going to be the best recipe for long-term, sustainable success. Andy has churned through several OC's in his time - from Pederson to Nagy to perhaps Bieniemy - all a result of the success of his offense. But Andy has been the stabilizing force and will continue to be as long as he's there.

 

Allen, if he stays on this track, will be earning OC's like Daboll their head coaching jobs too. But without that stabilizing force at head coach, it's going to be somewhat annoying to constantly re-learn or re-tool the offense every three years, unless the Bills are able to develop/promote from within and keep the same system intact.

Edited January 26, 2022 by beebe
typo

[Preds]

One again McClappy has proven that in critical moments, he chokes.  Period.  Just an awful sequence of horrendous coaching that started with the kickoff.  McClappy may be great throughout the week, but on gameday, in critical situations, he's the last guy I want coaching my players.  Ugh.  No doubt, he cost us a Super Bowl.  Allen deserves better.  So depressing.

[SCBills]

If you can bring yourself to watch that  video, you are legitimately a psychopath. 
 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by SCBills

[Old Coot]

50 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

And there’s good old # 49 - Johnny on the Spot. Mr. First Down

If that's a comment on the Kelce catch its unfair.  Edmunds is lined up deep over Hill on the other side of the formation.  If anything the fact that Edmunds is in on the tackle shows his lateral speed.

[Patrick Duffy]

55 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

This is utterly embarrassing. 

 

Bye McD.

Why "bye McD"?? Pretty sure he's going to be here for foreseeable future. 

[Old Coot]

3 hours ago, y2zipper said:

What's supposed to happen instead is that Wallace is supposed to play inside leverage and funnel Mahomes' pre-snap read toward the safety help so Mahomes either has to throw it into the double coverage or throw it away and go for the hail mary. Instead what happens is that Levi plays the outside and there's no help in the middle.

Maybe; or maybe not.  If Wallace is lined up correctly, the only inside help is Milano who appears to be dropping into zone.  Milano initially steps toward Hill and away from Wallace.  That opens up the middle for Kelce. 

 

Without knowing what defense was called you can't say who screwed up.  Wallace? Milano? Frazier? McDermot?

 

 

35 minutes ago, beebe said:

Allen, if he stays on this track, will be earning OC's like Daboll their head coaching jobs too. But without that stabilizing force at head coach, it's going to be somewhat annoying to constantly re-learn or re-tool the offense every three years, unless the Bills are able to develop/promote from within and keep the same system intact.

This is why if daboll gets hired away it's important to keep the same offensive philosophy, play-naming, etc.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

6 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

#93 on the Bills Obada is lined up right near Kelce on the 2nd play. All he has to do is slightly get in his way or actually hit him within the 5 yards and either Kelce doesn't catch that ball or he does but there is no time left.   Instead he takes off on a fruitless pursuit of Mahomes! All because our bozo coaches instructed the Defense to rush 4 and even if the players thought that was a bad plan, they couldnt deviate from it. So frustrating to watch how easy that was for Mahomes and Kelce. The Bills player who tackles him is at least 5 yards away from Kelce when he catches it.  The Chiefs players and their fans must be laughing their asses off at our utter stupidity and caution on both those plays. Sickening!

I don’t know if I should laugh or cry about this. 

Just now, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I don’t know if I should laugh or cry about this. 

Maybe some of our players should of done some freestyle of there own and disregarded the whole play call by McDermott and Frazier 

[Chicagobills]

Gosh this is so so bad 

[RyanC883]

Frazier needs to go.  His passive defense is awful.  He can take Mr. Passive Tremaine Edmunds with him.  

2 hours ago, GoBills17 said:

Yes it would but would you take your chance on playing cat and mouse and baiting Kelce or jamming at line and then having him tightly bracketed by Levi and Milano? If he makes unreal catch in double coverage so be it but that wasn’t even contested. They screwed up the kickoff, didn’t take holding penalty on first down and were outsmarted by Kelce… it just seems to be what happened based on the data points. Just really sucks as if any one of the 3 plays goes different they very likely win. 

 

We just handed them the game with no resistance.  Not jamming Kelcie is absurd.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 hours ago, beebe said:

Video also confirms Orlovsky's analysis of the play from yesterday.

 

 

Milano reading the QB'S eyes in this situation instead of understanding the game situation. I hate that our players couldn't react better to what KC was trying to do. I saw it from my couch and was screaming at the TV to tighten up on Kelce.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, Preds said:

One again McClappy has proven that in critical moments, he chokes.  Period.  Just an awful sequence of horrendous coaching that started with the kickoff.  McClappy may be great throughout the week, but on gameday, in critical situations, he's the last guy I want coaching my players.  Ugh.  No doubt, he cost us a Super Bowl.  Allen deserves better.  So depressing.

What were the other times?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I can't sleep man. How do Milano and Wallace not react better to Kelce here? It's driving me insane. It's TRAVIS KELCE! 

 

Both players know safeties are deep. Nothing to worry about there. Wallace knows there is absolutely no one else on that side of the field. Kelce then tightens up! When you see Kelce get tighter wouldn't you think something is coming? Mahomes screams to Kelce! 

 

It's going to haunt me.

[Aussie Joe]

7 hours ago, Steptide said:

I hate that I can't move on from this game 

 

this thread is not helping me move on 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 hours ago, Steptide said:

I hate that I can't move on from this game 

It's going to take a while.

[Aussie Joe]

8 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Let's be honest here.

 

McDermott is no match for Reid.

 

McDermott is playing checkers while Reid is playing chess

 

I thought only Belichick played Chess ?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Let's be honest here.

 

McDermott is no match for Reid.

 

McDermott is playing checkers while Reid is playing chess

Reid didn't do it. Kelce created his own route based on what the Bills players showed. 

 

Just like on 4th and 13 TD to Gabe Davis. Allen changed Davis' route, not a coach. Players play!

Edited January 26, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[HardyBoy]

90% of people in here have no idea what they’re talking about (I don’t either). All echo chambering the same drivel, it’s like a freaking episode of black mirror in here. 
 

You all really think the most likely scenario is that the Bills defensive coaching staff, who have near 50 years combined experience at the highest level of the sport, that they simply didn’t know what to do?

 

Or is it more likely that an extremely tired player had their brain freeze up in the moment and just accessed the wrong muscle memory at the worst possible time?
 

Look how close Hughes was on that pass to Kelce. If, as the poster earlier suggested, and Wallace played inside leverage and having the shell disguise trick the Chiefs into attacking a disguised double coverage, and Mahomes had to actually double pump it, Hughes crushes him. Holy crap, the whole thing, was a set up to fool the chiefs, and the four rushing lineman was a trick to manipulate the line call to get Hughes an open run at a sack fumble game over. It almost worked. McD said they practice that scenario over and over throughout the year, wanna guess what they likely were trying to do? Seriously, if you think the scenario of we’re up by three in Arrowhead with under 20 seconds left and Chiefs have all their timeouts wasn’t practiced day one in their first closed training camp. I mean come on guys, it’s just way too likely a scenario and would motivate the heck out of the players all year. 

 

Anyway, my favorite are the people saying that Diggs and Knox were taken out of the game so effectively, while Davis put up 201 with 4 tds, including a 75 yard bomb at the (first) key turning point of the game.

 

That sequence should have gotten the Bills the win, there should not have been a drive for KC with 1:54 on the clock. After that Davis bomb TD, iirc the defense got the stop and the bills got the ball back and went on the 17 play drive. Biggest reason they lost was the briefest lapse in execution by the Bills offense that lead to the 4th and 13 or whatever where Davis caught his 3rd td.
 

The goal was to score with under a minute and KC taking all their timeouts. That dump off to Singletary that he didn’t drop (or really whatever the play call was there possibly) was low key they reason the Bills lost, because they basically had to call a winning play there, there was no choice.
 

That drive was set up to be a 25 play drive to salt the game away going into the end zone like the first drive of the game. Think Texas vs USC style (honestly, Josh Allen’s performance in this game was really similar to Vince Young’s in that game).
 

You give the ball back with 2 min and three time outs to Mahomes, what do you think is going to happen? Worst part, they were already clearly spent, but then ended up chasing Hill 90 yards across the field on that touchdown and that just totally gassed them for overtime. 

[Doc Brown]

12 hours ago, zow2 said:

I don't even think i can watch this.  

I'd rather have Nick Wright kick me in the nuts.  Less painful.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

this thread is not helping me move on 

We have Josh Allen and the rest of the AFC East doesn't.  Mahomes will have to deal with Herbert at least twice a year.  Burrow and Jackson will try and take each other out every year.  The AFC South is a joke without an elite quarterback.  We may not be the best team every year but because we play in the AFC East we'll be best positioned to get the #1 seed over the next five years assuming Beane and McDermott do their job.  This loss was BRUTAL but our future is bright.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

29 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

90% of people in here have no idea what they’re talking about (I don’t either). All echo chambering the same drivel, it’s like a freaking episode of black mirror in here. 
 

You all really think the most likely scenario is that the Bills defensive coaching staff, who have near 50 years combined experience at the highest level of the sport, that they simply didn’t know what to do?

 

Or is it more likely that an extremely tired player had their brain freeze up in the moment and just accessed the wrong muscle memory at the worst possible time?
 

Look how close Hughes was on that pass to Kelce. If, as the poster earlier suggested, and Wallace played inside leverage and having the shell disguise trick the Chiefs into attacking a disguised double coverage, and Mahomes had to actually double pump it, Hughes crushes him. Holy crap, the whole thing, was a set up to fool the chiefs, and the four rushing lineman was a trick to manipulate the line call to get Hughes an open run at a sack fumble game over. It almost worked. McD said they practice that scenario over and over throughout the year, wanna guess what they likely were trying to do? Seriously, if you think the scenario of we’re up by three in Arrowhead with under 20 seconds left and Chiefs have all their timeouts wasn’t practiced day one in their first closed training camp. I mean come on guys, it’s just way too likely a scenario and would motivate the heck out of the players all year. 

 

Anyway, my favorite are the people saying that Diggs and Knox were taken out of the game so effectively, while Davis put up 201 with 4 tds, including a 75 yard bomb at the (first) key turning point of the game.

 

That sequence should have gotten the Bills the win, there should not have been a drive for KC with 1:54 on the clock. After that Davis bomb TD, iirc the defense got the stop and the bills got the ball back and went on the 17 play drive. Biggest reason they lost was the briefest lapse in execution by the Bills offense that lead to the 4th and 13 or whatever where Davis caught his 3rd td.
 

The goal was to score with under a minute and KC taking all their timeouts. That dump off to Singletary that he didn’t drop (or really whatever the play call was there possibly) was low key they reason the Bills lost, because they basically had to call a winning play there, there was no choice.
 

That drive was set up to be a 25 play drive to salt the game away going into the end zone like the first drive of the game. Think Texas vs USC style (honestly, Josh Allen’s performance in this game was really similar to Vince Young’s in that game).
 

You give the ball back with 2 min and three time outs to Mahomes, what do you think is going to happen? Worst part, they were already clearly spent, but then ended up chasing Hill 90 yards across the field on that touchdown and that just totally gassed them for overtime. 

I've yet to see a Milano and Wallace interview since the game ended. Maybe I  just missed it.

 

I'm not blaming them, I just have questions. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Nitro]

12 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I'll keep saying it, where are our all pro Safeties? Tremaine Edmunds? Who's job was it to blanket him? Coaches coach but the players have to execute. How do you not cover him?

They were playing deep to prevent a TD.  Frazier did not want to lose on a deep pass.  This is on the Dc and the defense he called.  

[TBBills]

5 minutes ago, Nitro said:

They were playing deep to prevent a TD.  Frazier did not want to lose on a deep pass.  This is on the Dc and the defense he called.  

Old DC's don't realize the prevent Defense is done in the NFL. Especially when a team was looking for the FG and not a TD.

 

Frazier has hurt the Bills in the past woth this type of defense. Old outdated and cost the Bills a Super Bowl run.

Edited January 26, 2022 by TBBills

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

14 hours ago, beebe said:

 

The video confirms some of the postgame quotes we saw. The Bills timeouts did indeed help the Chiefs. By the way, Kelce didn't speak very quietly even with Addison sitting right there? 

 

And Mahomes barking out his name, as if to say, "Cover him!" It's kinda wild. 

 

Why does the say McDermott it should it bright colors for everyone to se FRAZIER.

[BobbyC81]

13 hours ago, colin said:

i still can't decide if i think it was all on mcd, who simply thought kc was out of timeouts, or on frazier, who isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer and thinks having a back up plan is a bad idea, is who is most responsible for this horrible display.

 

i suppose it is possible that jonny details, our head coach, got so lost in the details he couldn't see the full picture and decided to call a guaranteed FG allowing d to stop a potential TD, but even after this abortion of an ending i think that's just too much.  

 

 

He knew Josh was 9-0 on coin flips and figured they’d win it and get the ball first in OT?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I swear Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill drew those plays up after seeing the Bills alignment pre McDermott timeout. 

[Back2Buff]

All Obada had to do was put Kelce on his butt right at the line.

 

Such bad coaching.

[stevewin]

14 hours ago, coloradobillsfan said:

 

Here are all the key words.  You don't get one free down to tackle all their receivers.  

 

ARTICLE 3. INTENTIONAL FOULS TO MANIPULATE GAME CLOCK

A team may not commit multiple fouls during the same down in an attempt to manipulate the game clock.

Penalty: For multiple fouls to run off time from the game clock: Loss of 15 yards, and the game clock will be reset to where it was at the snap. After the penalty is enforced, the game clock will start on the next snap.

Then you just commit a single holding call on the first play.  Line someone up on Kelce - don't tackle him, but run wth him and grab his jersey or get your arm around him right away (I say hold Kelce vs Hill b/c chance that Hill blows past you before you can even get hands on him).  Then it is a regular 5 yd penalty and time goes off clock.  If for some reason they don't call it, you've taken Kelce out of the play (and let's assume you've double-teamed Hill legitimately as well).  If they call it you're potentially looking at 1st down from the 30 with 7-8 secs left.

 

OMG just thinking about this is making me nauseous again

Edited January 26, 2022 by stevewin

[BuffaloBill]

17 hours ago, Process said:

Our safeties were 40 yards down the field.

 

A complete choke job by the coaching staff.

 

 

I tend to believe this is the case, the players played the scheme called on the play which was absolutely horrendous. 

[SWATeam]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

I tend to believe this is the case, the players played the scheme called on the play which was absolutely horrendous. 

We actually would have had a better chance to win had we missed the 2 pt conversion...  Wouldn't have been able to play so conservative and settle for the tie.  Sickening.   

[T master]

17 hours ago, Steptide said:

This is gonna hit the tweets and is gonna get blow back. Again, I feel really bad for Allen. The coaching failed him

 

Maybe the coaching call did but what about the players ? Wallace, Addison, Or Milano were right there & i don't see that it wasn't above any of them to play outside the call especially if they are listening to what we just did . If they can pick that up on a mike from the sidelines i'm thinking 1 of them heard that too .

 

So adjust ! But i cannot for the life of me understand why you are in prevent mode Kelsey is the best at his position in the NFL & he is that guy that does exactly what he did to the Bills and the Bills know this yet you give him a free run like that makes no sense player or coach you bust him in the mouth coming off the line get a holding call what ever but DO NOT LET HIM FREE !! 

 

It was a bad D call & player call I'm thinking if Wallace or Millano the 2 Bills he split would have jumped and hit him, held him, rode his ass down the field & got a 5 yd penalty all the while making Mahomes run around wasting time on the clock & the AFC east championship game goes to OP McD wouldn't be unhappy with their decision . 

 

This audio lets us all know why Kelsey is the best at his position and why they are moving on & the Bills are not but hopefully all will learn from it !! 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by T master

[Livinginthepast]

You see a lot of "Worst coaching decisions in NFL history" lists or videos . Unfortunately the Bills coaching moves in the last 13 seconds are going to be added to that all time list for the kickoff and those 2 defensive playcalls, you could even add taking two timeouts defensively during it (and then proceeding to do nothing different) to that steaming turd pile as well. 

 

I dont want McD or anyone else for fired for this. Overall these coaches through their combined efforts have brought us to a new level of competition but all through the "process" , there have been troubling signs that McD and his coaches have sometimes not been properly prepared for games or freeze in pressure situations. You can argue using analytics or common sense to coach in those situations but the Bills coaches seemed to ignore BOTH in those last 13 seconds. I hope it never happens again and they learn from this that there must be a plan or a strategy mapped out for every possible situation to improve success. In addition, McD must come clean to the players and fans on who was responsible or just take the blame himself and be done with it. Yesterday was far too wishy washy and vague. 

[Ta111]

With 13 seconds left from their 25 yard line, no receiver should have been let run free. Hold them or even tackle them. It’s only a 5 yard penalty AND the time runs off the clock. So they now have the ball at the 30 with 8 seconds. Do it again and they have the ball at the 35 with maybe 2 or 3 seconds. Game over.

[TheBrownBear]

Depressing to watch for sure.  In hindsight we should have rushed 2 at most and used the extra coverage to bump and blanket Kelce and Hill the first 5-10 yards downfield.  The fact that he was given a free release and then that we never got a guy within 5 yards of him is inexcusable.  That's almost enough right there to warrant firing Frazier.  The guy has been in the league forever, and that's what he comes up with when you absolutely need to be at your best for just 13 seconds?  Oh vey!

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Depressing to watch for sure.  In hindsight we should have rushed 2 at most and used the extra coverage to bump and blanket Kelce and Hill the first 5-10 yards downfield.  The fact that he was given a free release and then that we never got a guy within 5 yards of him is inexcusable.  That's almost enough right there to warrant firing Frazier.  The guy has been in the league forever, and that's what he comes up with when you absolutely need to be at your best for just 13 seconds?  Oh vey!

I normally hate that coverage but with 13 seconds left, anything that makes Mahomes hold the ball and scan the field for a guy to come open is a good play call.

[Buffalo Ballin]

A complete failure by McDermott and Frazier. They're not going to get fired. Leslie Frazier might be leaving for a HC job anyway.

[TheBrownBear]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

I normally hate that coverage but with 13 seconds left, anything that makes Mahomes hold the ball and scan the field for a guy to come open is a good play call.

Same here.  20-30 seconds left and that's a mistake, but there's only 13 seconds to move 40 yards, that's the play.  I'm sure the staff realizes this now and we won't see the same mistake in the future, but it was a tough way to learn that lesson.

[KOKBILLS]

There is choking...Then there is the next level...Those 13 seconds were like the next level after the next level of choking...

 

Just terrible on all accounts...What the Bills did was so incredibly pedestrian and noticeable, all it took was a little sandlot football to beat it in a 9% probability situation...If this is the best they could come up with...after the TO's no less...I mean...I'm sorry...I love McD...But seriously...WTF?...They all but served up that FG on a silver platter for the Chiefs...They gave the Chiefs a guaranteed 20 of the 40 yards they had to have by playing that far off the ball on both down...Think about that...The Chiefs basically needed a maximum of 10 yards per reception to get into FG range because the Bills gave them 20 for free...True story...

 

Honestly...It's a damn good thing McD has built what he has at this point...Because otherwise, and for sure in other markets...They would destroy him for those 13 seconds...I don't want him to leave at all...I really don't...But it is what it is when breaking down the strategy applied, and what happened as a result after the Bills final TD...

 

Sucks...

[Coach Tuesday]

54 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

There is choking...Then there is the next level...Those 13 seconds were like the next level after the next level of choking...

 

Just terrible on all accounts...What the Bills did was so incredibly pedestrian and noticeable, all it took was a little sandlot football to beat it in a 9% probability situation...If this is the best they could come up with...after the TO's no less...I mean...I'm sorry...I love McD...But seriously...WTF?...They all but served up that FG on a silver platter for the Chiefs...They gave the Chiefs a guaranteed 20 of the 40 yards they had to have by playing that far off the ball on both down...Think about that...The Chiefs basically needed a maximum of 10 yards per reception to get into FG range because the Bills gave them 20 for free...True story...

 

Honestly...It's a damn good thing McD has built what he has at this point...Because otherwise, and for sure in other markets...They would destroy him for those 13 seconds...I don't want him to leave at all...I really don't...But it is what it is when breaking down the strategy applied, and what happened as a result after the Bills final TD...

 

Sucks...

You raise a good point which is that if this had happened in Dallas or NYC the head coach would be Dead Man Walking, for better or worse.

[Mr. WEO]

I gets worse:

 

They showed an interview before this game a few minutes ago:

 

Mahomes:  they took a timeout.  Kelce came over to me

 

(Kelce on the video clip: this formation they are leaving the seam open)

 

Mahomes: they came out of the TO (in the same formation) so I (got up to the line and said) "do it Kelce, do it Kelce"

 

(cut again video clip: "do it Kelce, do it Kelce")

 

So the Bills telegraphed exactly what they were going to allow (twice) and then Mahomes told (shouted!) the Bills D exactly where the ball was going---and the D was still clueless!