Leslie Frazier & the Bears

[Gugny]

25 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

 

yeah, I suppose riddick isn’t a retread. But dungy and Frazier are— and both in their 60s. Dungy a retread in the same sense as Marv was— coming out of a long retirement at an older age.

 

but don’t shoot the messenger. I am not saying that I personally believe this to be a bad idea. But obviously the league is going more in the 30-year old upstart HC direction. I just find it unlikely for the bears to buck that trend, and hire riddick and a couple of 60-year olds to run their team. 
 

If I had to guess, they will go with a younger offensive coordinator type as the HC. 

 

Levy was like 102 when the Bills made him the GM.

[The Poojer]

That's a pretty impressive 3 some to lead a team, on paper

 

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Just talked to a guy i know who is pretty looped in with Chicago sports and has a few connections) and he believes from recent reports/discussions that dungy is going to be hired as Director of Football Ops, Louis Riddick as GM, and Leslie Frazier as HC. He isn’t 100% convinced they get rid of Ryan pace but that he may get put in a different role. I could see this happening and frazier could hire an OC (Jim Caldwell, who he worked with in Indy?) to take care of that side. I like the fit for him and I think the bears fan base would love it. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Levy was like 102 when the Bills made him the GM.

i think that made him a re-re-tread. 

[hondo in seattle]

49 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Riddick (not a retread) is 52 and Frazier is 62

51 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Would be a really tough sell/high risk to re-build your team with three 65-year old retreads at critical positions. The NFL seems to be trending to younger and more innovative coaches. But who knows? The Texans went out and hired David Culley last year. 
 

 

Miyagi's take is age-ism at its worst. 

 

Like Frazier, I'm 62 and still proficient at my job.  I'm not un-innovative in the slightest.  In fact, I get accused of being too innovative.

 

There are no signs that the game of football has left Riddick or Frazier behind.  

[aristocrat]

The Bears do need some stability and program builders.  Nagy has been a tire fire.  They could do worse than Leslie and the Bills would love that third rounder

[JGMcD2]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Miyagi's take is age-ism at its worst. 

 

Like Frazier, I'm 62 and still proficient at my job.  I'm not un-innovative in the slightest.  In fact, I get accused of being too innovative.

 

There are no signs that the game of football has left Riddick or Frazier behind.  

I’m on the younger side of things and would have to agree with you. It’s great when you can get some young, fresh thinkers in the room. It means you have a potential building block for a long time… but there are tremendous growing pains with young professionals… especially in sports organizations. 
 

My favorite people I work with are the guys who have been around for decades. In most cases they’re more open-minded than the younger guys - that’s how they’ve stuck around for decades. A lot of younger guys want to do it their way or no way at all… until they learn it doesn’t work that way.

 

It’s just like analytics… you need a good mix of everything. A balance. You can’t be too reliant on one medium for your success. 

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Miyagi's take is age-ism at its worst. 

 

Like Frazier, I'm 62 and still proficient at my job.  I'm not un-innovative in the slightest.  In fact, I get accused of being too innovative.

 

There are no signs that the game of football has left Riddick or Frazier behind.  

 

Totally agree and the Bills have talked about how Frazier has taken to analytics more than most of the younger coaches.

 

I think that would be an amazing trio to bring some stability and re-start swimming tradition.

 

 

[MJS]

50 minutes ago, jethro_tull said:

don't see it but anything is possible.  

the bears are in the market for a coach to develop their rookie QB justin fields.  

a smart organization would look at the record of all rebound head coaches, those that went from coordinator to head coach and back to coordinator.  the record of coaches getting another shot is not good.  then again the bears are not a very football smart organization.

They should be in the market for the best head coach possible, regardless of what side of the ball they come from.

[dave mcbride]

38 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Louis Riddick as GM?

 

What in the pickles tarnation does he know about being a GM? I mean, I guess he was a scout for a short time, like 10 years ago
 

If I was Leslie, i’d be concerned about that.

 

.

He's a legit candidate based on his experience.

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Totally agree and the Bills have talked about how Frazier has taken to analytics more than most of the younger coaches.

 

I think that would be an amazing trio to bring some stability and re-start swimming tradition.

 

 

That's something I've really noticed. Older coaches with years in the game are more than happy to incorporate new concepts into their current philosophies - that's how you survive in an industry where you're hired to get fired. 

 

The irony of it all is that all of the analytics ultimately just reinforce a lot of concepts that we did not quantify before. It's just another tool for coaches to make informed decisions and is an easy way to give feedback/make decisions.

 

I also think the media does an amazing (and ridiculous) job of drumming up a narrative around numbers. It's really not all that complicated and advanced under the hood - plenty of models and metrics are created online similar to what teams end up creating themselves. The teams just have access to more information, more people, more resources AND use the tried-and-true eye test for things. 

Anyway... Dungy, Riddick and Frazier would be a great trio for Chicago. I think Frazier deserves this opportunity. 

[Buffaloflash]

1 hour ago, bigK14094 said:

Frazier was HC of the Vikes for (3?) years, and the Bears saw him twice a year.   there might  be a lingering impressions from that time and not sure he gets the Bears job because of that.

His job done in Buffalo should offset that,Right?

[frostbitmic]

I still believe that our defense is more McClappy than it is Frazier. When things aren't going well with our defense you often see McClappy talking to Frazier and soon after the defense is doing something different and usually with better results.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

I still believe that our defense is more McClappy than it is Frazier. When things aren't going well with our defense you often see McClappy talking to Frazier and soon after the defense is doing something different and usually with better results.

It's a combination. We have a lot of defensive coaching experience on the staff. Defense will always be prepared. Frazier is a big part of the defensive game planning but they will be fine.

 

 

[TheFunPolice]

Frazier has also probably learned a lot since his last HC position.

 

He's well respected by players and a very good defensive coach. Pair him with an up and coming OC and the Bears could be a really good team. 

 

 

[HT02]

It sounds like a recipe for mediocrity to me.  While all of those guys seem like gentlemen and outstanding men I haven't seen anything to make me see Super Bowl in the future with them calling the shots.

[TheFunPolice]

Dungy is a great team builder and leader of men. He built Gruden a SB team in Tampa. 

Riddick I don't know much about, but I would guess Dungy would see this a mentoring and development opportunity for him. 

Frazier is a great defensive coach with great people skills, and I would think he's learned a thing or two in the past bunch of years. He would need a strong OC I think. 

 

Bears could do a lot worse, and it would instantly give them credibility and get the fans excited. They have a lot of great pieces on D right now, and a young QB they need to build around and develop. 

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, HT02 said:

It sounds like a recipe for mediocrity to me.  While all of those guys seem like gentlemen and outstanding men I haven't seen anything to make me see Super Bowl in the future with them calling the shots.

Mediocrity would be an upgrade for that franchise.  They need a GM, coach and scouting department pulling in the same, sane direction for a few years.

[May Day 10]

I suspect Frazier is really good with players, as in, they respect him and listen to him (and he in turn also respects and listens to players).  That is an important thing and a key ingredient that has brought success to McDermott.  He seems universally liked and respected in (public) NFL circles.

 

If Im Joe-Average Bears fan, and they announce Frazier as a coach, Im probably pretty mad though as on the surface it sounds pretty uninspiring.  

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, May Day 10 said:

I suspect Frazier is really good with players, as in, they respect him and listen to him (and he in turn also respects and listens to players).  That is an important thing and a key ingredient that has brought success to McDermott.  He seems universally liked and respected in (public) NFL circles.

 

If Im Joe-Average Bears fan, and they announce Frazier as a coach, Im probably pretty mad though as on the surface it sounds pretty uninspiring.  

 

I think Dungy coming to town as part of the deal makes it more exciting for the average fan though. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[78thealltimegreat]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Just talked to a guy i know who is pretty looped in with Chicago sports and has a few connections) and he believes from recent reports/discussions that dungy is going to be hired as Director of Football Ops, Louis Riddick as GM, and Leslie Frazier as HC. He isn’t 100% convinced they get rid of Ryan pace but that he may get put in a different role. I could see this happening and frazier could hire an OC (Jim Caldwell, who he worked with in Indy?) to take care of that side. I like the fit for him and I think the bears fan base would love it. 

It does make sense but who does he bring to mentor fields…this seems like a downgrade for Daboll but could see Ken Dorsey as the OC

[HT02]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

Mediocrity would be an upgrade for that franchise.  They need a GM, coach and scouting department pulling in the same, sane direction for a few years.

I agree on both counts but mediocrity isn't the goal and I don't believe that group of three gets them past that

[Logic]

I would be said to see Frazier go, but would happy to receive the compensatory 3rd round picks.

Frankly, Frazier deserves another head coaching opportunity. It couldn't be more clear. I'm pulling for him.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Miyagi's take is age-ism at its worst. 

 

Like Frazier, I'm 62 and still proficient at my job.  I'm not un-innovative in the slightest.  In fact, I get accused of being too innovative.

 

There are no signs that the game of football has left Riddick or Frazier behind.  

i understand it is ageist— but, to be clear, it is not something I personally believe in. I firmly Believe that Leslie Frazier should be a head coach. In fact, I am in the minority I am sure, but I think the Broncos should keep 62-year old Vic Fangio, who I believe is an excellent coach. 
 

But I believe the newest NFL fad is that if you aren’t some young 30-year old, you aren’t innovative and you can’t coach.

 

Have you noticed how obsessed the media is with Brandon Staley? He gives some ho-hum answer on why running the ball Is important, and the media thinks he is brilliant. The NFL

is obsessed with the young whipper-snapper coaches. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He's a legit candidate based on his experience.

 

Is he though?

He was a scout for 4 years (over a decade ago). And a Director of Pro Personnel for two HORRENDOUS football teams.

 

He has not been an employee of an NFL team in nearly 10 years.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

36 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Is he though?

He was a scout for 4 years (over a decade ago). And a Director of Pro Personnel for two HORRENDOUS football teams.

 

He has not been an employee of an NFL team in nearly 10 years.

 

 

He was director of pro personnel for Washington from 2001-07. They made the playoffs twice in those years. He was director of pro personnel in Philly from 2010-2013. They made the playoffs twice in those four years. Four playoff appearances in 11 years isn't horrible. It's average given that 32 percent of teams made the playoffs in those years (and the Bills made it precisely zero times in this time frame). And it's a lot of experience. And I am responding to this comment from you: "What in the pickles tarnation does he know about being a GM? I mean, I guess he was a scout for a short time, like 10 years ago." That's not accurate.

Edited January 4, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

I suspect Frazier is really good with players, as in, they respect him and listen to him (and he in turn also respects and listens to players).  That is an important thing and a key ingredient that has brought success to McDermott.  He seems universally liked and respected in (public) NFL circles.

 

If Im Joe-Average Bears fan, and they announce Frazier as a coach, Im probably pretty mad though as on the surface it sounds pretty uninspiring.  

 

I could believe that except he has some personal history of success with that team.  
 

It sure seems like a better hire and fit for the city than Nagy and Trestman as young Offensive guys. 
 

It would depend to me on who else comes on board with him, but it would begin to harken back toward their hey day and provide some much needed stability.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Think about the Bears' fan base though: the Bears have for decades been a defense-first team, and a former excellent Bears player on one of the greatest defenses of all time who just DC'ed the number one yardage and #2 points allowed unit in the NFL (the 2021 Bills) would seem to me be a relatively easy sell. 

 

Interestingly, after a great 1985 season, his career ended because of a major knee suffered while returning a punt in that 46-10 rout of the Pats in the Super Bowl. He never played again.

 

And for the last 3 decades, they've pretty much stunk, with only 6 seasons of 10 or more wins.  In that same time, they have had only 8 seasons with a D in top 5 for lowest points allowed, paired with 14 seasons or 20th or worse.

 

What is appealing to Bears fans regarding more of that?

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Just talked to a guy i know who is pretty looped in with Chicago sports and has a few connections) and he believes from recent reports/discussions that dungy is going to be hired as Director of Football Ops, Louis Riddick as GM, and Leslie Frazier as HC. He isn’t 100% convinced they get rid of Ryan pace but that he may get put in a different role. I could see this happening and frazier could hire an OC (Jim Caldwell, who he worked with in Indy?) to take care of that side. I like the fit for him and I think the bears fan base would love it. 

I am fine with it. Good luck Leslie will be rooting for you. And appreciate the 2nd and 3rd NFL. 

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

And for the last 3 decades, they've pretty much stunk, with only 6 seasons of 10 or more wins.  In that same time, they have had only 8 seasons with a D in top 5 for lowest points allowed, paired with 14 seasons or 20th or worse.

 

What is appealing to Bears fans regarding more of that?

When the Bears have been good, it's never been about the offense. They were an elite team in 2018 because of their defense and lost in the playoffs on a doinked FG. In 2005, 2006, 2010, and 2012 -- all good-to-excellent seasons -- the D carried them. And obviously that goes for the period from 1984-1991, when their defense utterly dominated. Don't write off those 1980s years; those form the bedrock of Bears fandom now, much like the Kelly era in Buffalo. They are legendary among Bears fans to this day.

Edited January 4, 2022 by dave mcbride

[Coffeesforclosers]

I hope he gets it, Leslie's earned another shot.  That it's with an NFC franchise is just icing on the cake.

 

The Bears are supposed to be a storied franchise, hopefully he could get them off the hamster wheel at least.

 

 

 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He was director of pro personnel for Washington from 2001-07.

 

No he wasn't.

 

He was the lowest team scout from 2001 to 2004. He was Director of Pro Personnel for only a couple of years and went 24-24.

 

He then "left" - aka fired - and went to Philadelphia to be demoted.

 

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He was director of pro personnel in Philly from 2010-2013.

 

When he arrived in Philly, he was downgraded back to scout. When he was eventually promoted to Director of Pro Personnel, he endured another bad .500 record (32-32) before being fired by Philly.

 

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

 And I am responding to this comment from you: "What in the pickles tarnation does he know about being a GM? I mean, I guess he was a scout for a short time, like 10 years ago." That's not accurate.

 

So let's recap.

 

He has:

 

1) Not been with an NFL team in *any* capacity in nearly a decade.

2) When he was with an NFL team, he had a .500 record and was fired by two teams after being in the director job for 3 years or less.

 

Therefore, I stand by my question of: "What in the pickles tarnation does he know about being a GM?"

 

.

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Einstein

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

No he wasn't.

 

He was the lowest team scout from 2001 to 2004. He was Director of Pro Personnel for only a couple of years and went 24-24.

 

He then "left" - aka fired - and went to Philadelphia to be demoted.

 

 

When he arrived in Philly, he was downgraded back to scout. When he was eventually promoted to Director of Pro Personnel, he endured another bad .500 record (32-32) before being fired by Philly.

 

 

So let's recap.

 

He has:

 

1) Not been with an NFL team in *any* capacity in nearly a decade.

2) When he was with an NFL team, he had a .500 record and was fired by two teams after being in the director job for 3 years or less.

 

Therefore, I stand by my question of: "What in the pickles tarnation does he know about being a GM?"

 

.

 

 

He's far more credentialed than John Lynch who has done just fine in SF.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

No he wasn't.

 

He was the lowest team scout from 2001 to 2004. He was Director of Pro Personnel for only a couple of years and went 24-24.

 

He then "left" - aka fired - and went to Philadelphia.

 

 

When he arrived in Philly, he was downgraded back to scout. Once he was eventually promoted to Director of Pro Personnel, he endured another bad .500 record (32-32) before being fired by Philly.

 

 

 

So let's recap.

 

He has:

 

1) Not been with an NFL team in *any* capacity in nearly a decade.

2) When he was with an NFL team, he had a .500 record and was fired by two teams after being in the director job for 3 years or less.

 

Therefore, I stand by my question of: "What in the pickles tarnation does he know about being a GM?"

 

You literally said he was a scout and that's it. Now you're shifting the goal posts and avoiding addressing what I was actually responding to -- your statement that he was a scout and a scout alone. Just own up that you were wrong. it's OK. And anyway, I said he was average. 56-56 is the very definition of average. Also, what is "the lowest team scout"? Can you define that? Also, he was fired by the cretinous Vinny Cerrato in Washington, which is ... never a black mark in my book.

[CNYfan]

No way

[Freddie's Dead]

Trade them Frazier for Mack, straight up.

[vincec]

The Bills would get a 3rd round pick if this happens, right?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

When the Bears have been good, it's never been about the offense. They were an elite team in 2018 because of their defense and lost in the playoffs on a doinked FG. In 2005, 2006, 2010, and 2012 -- all good-to-excellent seasons -- the D carried them. And obviously that goes for the period from 1984-1991, when their defense utterly dominated. Don't write off those 1980s years; those form the bedrock of Bears fandom now, much like the Kelly era in Buffalo. They are legendary among Bears fans to this day.

 

I limited to the past 30 seasons.   The D was far more often mediocre than elite.  

 

 

In 2005, they were 1 and done in the playoffs.

 

 

In 2006, they had the #2 scoring Offense (#3 D) in the NFL. Lost the SB. 

 

 

In 2018, they lost a WC game, at home (first one in 8 seasons) to a 9-7 with a mediocre defense and a journeyman backup QB.  Elite teams don't do that.

 

So even though they had a handful of seasons with top Defense, they have been 1 and done 5 times in the playoffs in 8 trips over the past 3 decades. 

 

And of course Bears fans will look back on the legendary Bears D of the 80's.  But I can't imagine that's what they are interested at this point.  What fan base wants that today?  Ask them if they would rather have the #1 scoring Offense or the #1 Defense. 

 

They've witnessed plenty of the latter--as you have pointed out, mostly in futility.  They should be hyped about that possibility with a new regime (I'm using the term "new" kindly with Dungy and Frazier)?  With a top D and Justin Fields and some OC to be named later?  They've seen this movie before:  loaded up on D paired with an overdrafted rookie QB. 

 

I don't see it.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I limited to the past 30 seasons.   The D was far more often mediocre than elite.  

 

 

In 2005, they were 1 and done in the playoffs.

 

 

In 2006, they had the #2 scoring Offense (#3 D) in the NFL. Lost the SB. 

 

 

In 2018, they lost a WC game, at home (first one in 8 seasons) to a 9-7 with a mediocre defense and a journeyman backup QB.  Elite teams don't do that.

 

So even though they had a handful of seasons with top Defense, they have been 1 and done 5 times in the playoffs in 8 trips over the past 3 decades. 

 

And of course Bears fans will look back on the legendary Bears D of the 80's.  But I can't imagine that's what they are interested at this point.  What fan base wants that today?  Ask them if they would rather have the #1 scoring Offense or the #1 Defense. 

 

They've witnessed plenty of the latter--as you have pointed out, mostly in futility.  They should be hyped about that possibility with a new regime (I'm using the term "new" kindly with Dungy and Frazier)?  With a top D and Justin Fields and some OC to be named later?  

 

I don't see it.

 

 

I'm talking about fan perceptions of team identity and glory eras. For the Bears, it's about defense literally going back to Papa Bear: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/1963.htm. You're thinking far too rationally about this. No really good Bears team in the past 75 years was good because of the offense. You'd have to go back to the Monsters of the Midway for that, and that team's defense was good too. 

[Tenhigh]

4 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Miyagi's take is age-ism at its worst. 

 

Like Frazier, I'm 62 and still proficient at my job.  I'm not un-innovative in the slightest.  In fact, I get accused of being too innovative.

 

Then why do you keep asking me to how to "log onto the Facebook", dad?

 

 

 

 

 

😮

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Just talked to a guy i know who is pretty looped in with Chicago sports and has a few connections) and he believes from recent reports/discussions that dungy is going to be hired as Director of Football Ops, Louis Riddick as GM, and Leslie Frazier as HC. He isn’t 100% convinced they get rid of Ryan pace but that he may get put in a different role. I could see this happening and frazier could hire an OC (Jim Caldwell, who he worked with in Indy?) to take care of that side. I like the fit for him and I think the bears fan base would love it. 

 

Frazier is about to do the SoFi money dance.