Game Week: Week 15 Carolina Panthers at Bills thread

[Wyobills89]

If whoever goes at LT does a decent job, is it a possibility to move Dawkins inside?

[BillsVet]

 

2 hours ago, TheProcess said:

People get so hung up on “you can’t take X position” in the first round of the draft. Says who? We don’t have a say. They should be about stacking talent and taking the best player available. If that’s the big hoss 1T DT out of Georgia or a multi-dimensional RB to take some heat off Allen then so be it. No one on here should complain if that player work out. Personally, I’m a fan of going OL with two of the first four picks. Snag a back, corner, receiver, and a DT at some point in FA and/or remaining picks and let’s roll. 

 

Hard to believe people need this explained after Buddy Nix talked up "stacking" talent on top of talent.  

 

Positional value is real and it means acknowledging that a QB, pass rusher, WR1, CB1, and LT are more valuable than every other position is real.

 

And that begins by determining team identity.  This team tries to be a defense first team that has a stellar QB, but it's not working anymore unless changes are made. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Dawkins could still test negative and be activated as well

[Scott7975]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He didn't miss a game his first two years here before Covid hit so it's not like he just got the big contract and got lazy.  I'm sure he played through some pain during those two years.  I didn't have a problem with him sitting out a year with Covid given his body weight and how little we knew about it at the time.  I'm with you that I have a huge problem with him not getting vaccinated considering he sat out a year.

 

However, I doubt you're part of the training staff that knows the difference between Allen's injury and Star's injury.  Yet alone concluding that Star is soft for not playing through it. 

 

Don't buy it.  Its a toe injury. Im sure it hurts.  I don't even know how bad it is but players that care I believe would fight through it for their team.  This guy is going on his 6th game missed this year.  I think the guy is ready to retire and just collect some easy money.

6 hours ago, SCBills said:

Wasn’t Star told by his doctor that the vaccine may not be advisable for him due to that condition, which is why he’s not vaccinated? 
 

 

Got a link to that?  If that is true then he needs a new doctor.

[MiltonWaddams]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

BB probably has quarantined a homeless guy in his basement who is given 53 swabs a day.

Even if he gets caught they will only lose a 3rd round pick but they get 3 3rd round comps every year so it's no big deal to him!

 

The media in Boston will spin this as “Belichek gives homeless man a home for the fall and winter and ensures he is not exposed to dangerous Covid”.

[NewEra]

Pretty crazy to think that we are so unprepared @ backup LT after drafting 2 tackles this past offseason.  We have FOUR Tackles that can play this week:  Brown, Williams (was paid to play RT), hart and Doyle….but none that can play LT at the NFL level. I really hope Doyle pans out in the long run.  If not, he was just a ridiculously terrible pick, while Trey Smith was available. 

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Don't buy it.  Its a toe injury. Im sure it hurts.  I don't even know how bad it is but players that care I believe would fight through it for their team.  This guy is going on his 6th game missed this year.  I think the guy is ready to retire and just collect some easy money.

 

Got a link to that?  If that is true then he needs a new doctor.

My SIL has been told the same thing by her doctor.   You people are getting ridiculous.. it’s not a one size fits all. 
 

Edited December 19, 2021 by SCBills

[Bob in STL]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Pretty crazy to think that we are so unprepared @ backup LT after drafting 2 tackles this past offseason.  We have FOUR Tackles that can play this week:  Brown, Williams (was paid to play RT), hart and Doyle….but none that can play LT at the NFL level. I really hope Doyle pans out in the long run.  If not, he was just a ridiculously terrible pick, while Trey Smith was available. 

It is crazy indeed.  
 

Brown, a 3rd rounder, was strictly a RT in college.  Doyle, a fifth rounder, is a pretty raw project.  Williams has played RT or RG.  Hart is a journeyman and is a borderline NFL player.  
 

We went into the season with an unproven rookie swing tackle (Brown).  Big mistake.   We got lucky that Brown was an improvement over Williams at RT, who has regressed dramatically in one season.  Still, there is no veteran swing tackle other than Hart right now.  

 

All of theses guys can “play” LT in a pinch, but the drop off from Dawkins will likely  be very noticeable.  Maybe Brown will be ok at LT?  
 

Add to this we don’t even have a proven blocking TE to help the tackles since we traded Lee Smith for a 7th rounder (Wildgoose). Sweeney, our #2 TE has been about as productive as Smith as a receiver, which is a problem.   Smith is as a #3 TE, not a #2, and Smith actually blocks like a tackle.  I think Sweeney is out this week.  
 

To make matter worse our Guards are less talented than our tackles.  
 

The OL has been mishandled this off season.  

[Blank Stare]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

 

Hard to believe people need this explained after Buddy Nix talked up "stacking" talent on top of talent.  

 

Positional value is real and it means acknowledging that a QB, pass rusher, WR1, CB1, and LT are more valuable than every other position is real.

 

And that begins by determining team identity.  This team tries to be a defense first team that has a stellar QB, but it's not working anymore unless changes are made. 

Of course positional value is real. I’m not disputing that. I wouldn’t even argue the positions you’ve listed as most important and that you should keep shooting until you nail those positions. I’d argue they have addressed all of those positions the last few years with some really good players, with the weakest of the bunch as pass rusher (as of now at least). But they did try to address it by using the top 2 picks there this year.
 

All I’m saying is we have weaknesses outside of those key positions you’ve listed. We all piss and moan about who they should or shouldn’t take every year because X position isn’t worth it, but, with where the roster is now, I think it’s silly to suggest any position is off the table in the first round. When you’ve hit on QB, you can afford to truly trust your board and not reach even if it’s not one of your above listed positions.
 

We’re at a point now where we have to start hitting on impact players to help Josh. He’s proven he can carry this team. Now, it should be about bringing in players who can help lighten the load. You want to take another CB, WR, or LT in the first round? Fine by me. Whatever the position, you just need to hit on it because it will help Josh. I feel the same about Jordan Davis or “insert RB name here” even though the positional value may not be there. I’d argue improvement to those positions would mean a helluva lot to the Bills this season based on this forum’s most common complaints on Beane’s construction of the roster this year. 
 

Personally, I’d go into this draft with a heavy offensive lean. Particularly, with respect to addressing the oline with a couple stud picks to keep Josh clean.  Tackle, guard, or center. However, guard has long been thought to be a position you rarely burn a first rounder on (Quentin Nelson excluded). I’m not saying they should, but that’s one area they need improvement and more talented players. If they find one they like, and pull the trigger in the first round, I’m not going to run around saying the positional value isn’t there.  Instead, I’ll be like everyone else with the benefit of hindsight and wait half a season like with Cody Ford and tell you he’s terrible 😜😂. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by TheProcess

[finn]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Pretty crazy to think that we are so unprepared @ backup LT after drafting 2 tackles this past offseason.  We have FOUR Tackles that can play this week:  Brown, Williams (was paid to play RT), hart and Doyle….but none that can play LT at the NFL level. I really hope Doyle pans out in the long run.  If not, he was just a ridiculously terrible pick, while Trey Smith was available. 

Yes, that hurts. KC chose Humphrey and Smith, both now excellent starters, and the Bills, picking before them, chose Basham and Doyle, both developmental projects. (They also chose Stevenson, Hamlin and Wildgoose instead of Smith.) Think about that next time someone lauds Beane's drafting prowess. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

You have 2 (starting) guys that can play tackle. Might as well play Brown at LT and Williams at RT and piece through the inside 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

You have 2 (starting) guys that can play tackle. Might as well play Brown at LT and Williams at RT and piece through the inside 

 

This always blows my mind. 

 

I linked upthread to an interview with Brown where he says he 100% played RT in college, his only LT experience was a bit of spring ball and then the Bills pre-season.

 

And based on that, we're concluding he can play LT and "protect the franchise"?  How?

 

Also, Williams got moved inside and Brown got the start at RT because for whatever reason, the same guy that was capable last season kind of sucked this season

[Bimmer323i]

Does anyone know if the Pats game is gonna be on channel 4 Buffalo tonight… I hate it when they put games on the stupid nfl network 

[RiotAct]

Just now, Bimmer323i said:

Does anyone know if the Pats game is gonna be on channel 4 Buffalo tonight… I hate it when they put games on the stupid nfl network 

nope don’t believe it is.

[Scott7975]

45 minutes ago, SCBills said:

My SIL has been told the same thing by her doctor.   You people are getting ridiculous.. it’s it a one size fits all. 

 

You people?  Who or what are "you people?"  You don't know me or anything about me.  Don't give me this "you people" microaggression bull####.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Scott7975

[Bimmer323i]

27 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

nope don’t believe it is.

Ok thanks bro

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This always blows my mind. 

 

I linked upthread to an interview with Brown where he says he 100% played RT in college, his only LT experience was a bit of spring ball and then the Bills pre-season.

 

And based on that, we're concluding he can play LT and "protect the franchise"?  How?

 

Also, Williams got moved inside and Brown got the start at RT because for whatever reason, the same guy that was capable last season kind of sucked this season

Who would you like to play there then? That leaves us with what? Guys who have never played in the league period? Yeah that’s smart

[finn]

I just realized who Mac Jones reminds me of. Been bugging me. The monkey in Wizard of Oz!

[Bermuda Triangle]

Duggar is a POS too.

 

Typical Patriot trash.

[K-9]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

A first round pick in a rotational 1 tech for a team that’s been defense heavy, and invested a ***** ton of cap dollars into their defense while also being void of interior lineman and offensive playmakers in general would be idiotic, yes…. Also find it hard to imagine the best player available when the Bills pick will be a 1 tech defensive lineman.

Ah, I see you needed to change the scope of the conversation to be a specific issue with the Bills draft because your original general statement that only an idiot would select a 1T DT in the first round was so easily refuted with the Belichick example. Sometimes ya gotta move the goalposts I guess.  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

There it is for us. Beat Carolina and the division is on the line in foxburro. For the way this season has gone, can’t really ask for more 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, finn said:

 

I'd take another Ted Washington where the Bills will be picking. 

 

 

There are rarely more than 1 or 2 massive DT's in the NFL in any given season that are comparable to what Ted Washington was when he was with the Bills.......and that's being generous.     IMO there hasn't been anyone with his combo of size, durability, longevity and impact since he retired.

 

[Aussie Joe]

27 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

There it is for us. Beat Carolina and the division is on the line in foxburro. For the way this season has gone, can’t really ask for more 

Unlike you to count your chickens…

 

Win tomorrow first 

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Unlike you to count your chickens…

 

Win tomorrow first 

That's what "Beat Carolina" means. 

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

That's what "Beat Carolina" means. 

Ah yes … i see that now… I should have known he wouldn’t have overlooked tomorrows game …

Edited December 19, 2021 by Aussie Joe

[atlbillsfan1975]

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Except BB has struggled big time with drafts the past 6-7 years. GOAT coach…but he struggled in the draft for quite a few years… 

100%. 

[Fan in Chicago]

Let's take care of business today,  boys, girls and everyone. 

One too many scotches tonight.  Saturday was good,  let's have a winning Sunday.  

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[Thriftygamer83]

Buffalo is going to blow them out, blow out New England, Falcons, and finally put the Jets away.  Let's just say it teams going to get better, silence the critics, and show they are for real.  I Billieve in this team for the first time this season after the Bucs loss.

[JGMcD2]

12 hours ago, finn said:

Yes, that hurts. KC chose Humphrey and Smith, both now excellent starters, and the Bills, picking before them, chose Basham and Doyle, both developmental projects. (They also chose Stevenson, Hamlin and Wildgoose instead of Smith.) Think about that next time someone lauds Beane's drafting prowess. 

I think you need to have an understanding of how the draft works before you comment on it. 
 

Trey Smith has some medical issues that caused him to be removed from a lot of teams draft boards. It’s not as simple as just picking. If the medical team determines a player is a high risk, it’s not smart for the football guys to ignore them. 
 

The medical guys aren’t the in-house training staff either - the team uses independent doctors to conducts tests and review medical records alongside their in-house staff. 
 

Also, citing one example of one player in the 6th round that Beane didn’t take isn’t necessarily a strong case for him being a poor drafter… 

[Thriftygamer83]

8 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I think you need to have an understanding of how the draft works before you comment on it. 
 

Trey Smith has some medical issues that caused him to be removed from a lot of teams draft boards. It’s not as simple as just picking. If the medical team determines a player is a high risk, it’s not smart for the football guys to ignore them. 
 

The medical guys aren’t the in-house training staff either - the team uses independent doctors to conducts tests and review medical records alongside their in-house staff. 
 

Also, citing one example of one player in the 6th round that Beane didn’t take isn’t necessarily a strong case for him being a poor drafter… 

What we're not thinking about is it just could take a year for guys to truthfully open up and learn the system.  If they suddenly come in next year, as the next Bruce Smith, and putting away teams how terrifying would that defensive unit be?  The biggest whiff that Buffalo has made is Ford.  Just doesn't fit well into the line at all.

[CSBill]

As far as we know, is Dion Dawkins the only one COVID protocols? ... Hopefully he clears and is able to play today. But, to be honest, I'm not fretting over it. His play this season has been mediorce, at best. Assuming Feliciano is back,  even with the switching around (Brown, Bates, or Doyle to LT?), it's probably a wash, over-all.

[finn]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

I think you need to have an understanding of how the draft works before you comment on it. 
 

Trey Smith has some medical issues that caused him to be removed from a lot of teams draft boards. It’s not as simple as just picking. If the medical team determines a player is a high risk, it’s not smart for the football guys to ignore them. 
 

The medical guys aren’t the in-house training staff either - the team uses independent doctors to conducts tests and review medical records alongside their in-house staff. 
 

Also, citing one example of one player in the 6th round that Beane didn’t take isn’t necessarily a strong case for him being a poor drafter… 

I realize there was a medical issue in Smith's case, but it he would have been a risk worth taking for a sixth-round pick. KC thought so, too, and they were right. Beane was wrong. Also, I didn't just cite the one example, nor did I claim he was a poor drafter necessarily.

 

I think you need to have an understanding of the draft before you comment on it. You might also pick up some reading glasses while you bone up. 

[RunTheBall]

If Dawkins can’t go, Daboll better scheme up a game plan that recognizes the fact that the left side is going to be a jail break no matter who we put out there. I’m still hoping that was false positive and he gets a second negative test today, idk if there’s been anymore info on that front.

 

This is a huge test for Daboll. He’s got a nicked up Josh who probably can’t run as well and possibly no LT worth a damn and no blocking TE to help. He needs to develop a plan for Josh to get rid of the ball quickly. If he comes out with all verticles and long developing routes right out of the gate I’m going to lose my sht. 

 

Panthers have a good D. I’ve seen a lot of talk about blowing them out and playing NE for the division next week. Already we are getting ahead of ourselves by even thinking that after some of the losses we’ve had this year. I’m concerned and hope we take care of business today before considering the Pats*.

[CNYfan]

3 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

If Dawkins can’t go, Daboll better scheme up a game plan that recognizes the fact that the left side is going to be a jail break no matter who we put out there. I’m still hoping that was false positive and he gets a second negative test today, idk if there’s been anymore info on that front.

 

This is a huge test for Daboll. He’s got a nicked up Josh who probably can’t run as well and possibly no LT worth a damn and no blocking TE to help. He needs to develop a plan for Josh to get rid of the ball quickly. If he comes out with all verticles and long developing routes right out of the gate I’m going to lose my sht. 

 

Panthers have a good D. I’ve seen a lot of talk about blowing them out and playing NE for the division next week. Already we are getting ahead of ourselves by even thinking that after some of the losses we’ve had this year. I’m concerned and hope we take care of business today before considering the Pats*.

I more or less agree with this sentiment

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, finn said:

I realize there was a medical issue in Smith's case, but it he would have been a risk worth taking for a sixth-round pick. KC thought so, too, and they were right. Beane was wrong. Also, I didn't just cite the one example, nor did I claim he was a poor drafter necessarily.

 

I think you need to have an understanding of the draft before you comment on it. You might also pick up some reading glasses while you bone up. 

If you realized that… you should probably bring it up. You insinuated he was a bad drafter… 

You’re also not paying attention to how the medical process works. If he’s REMOVED from the board as a medical risk… he’s not going to be taken. 

 

Considering one of us has been involved with drafts (outside of their parents basement) and the other hasn’t… I think I’ll stand by my comment. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by JGMcD2

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, CSBill said:

As far as we know, is Dion Dawkins the only one COVID protocols? ... Hopefully he clears and is able to play today. But, to be honest, I'm not fretting over it. His play this season has been mediorce, at best. Assuming Feliciano is back,  even with the switching around (Brown, Bates, or Doyle to LT?), it's probably a wash, over-all.

Him and Dodson 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RunTheBall said:

If Dawkins can’t go, Daboll better scheme up a game plan that recognizes the fact that the left side is going to be a jail break no matter who we put out there. I’m still hoping that was false positive and he gets a second negative test today, idk if there’s been anymore info on that front.

 

It's my understanding at this point, Dawkins only needs one negative test to play today and can be activated this morning.

But we'll see.

 

[RunTheBall]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's my understanding at this point, Dawkins only needs one negative test to play today and can be activated this morning.

But we'll see.

 

Thanks for the info. If he only needs one negative my bet is that he plays as I think the positive test was false.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I think you need to have an understanding of how the draft works before you comment on it. 
 

Trey Smith has some medical issues that caused him to be removed from a lot of teams draft boards. It’s not as simple as just picking. If the medical team determines a player is a high risk, it’s not smart for the football guys to ignore them. 
 

The medical guys aren’t the in-house training staff either - the team uses independent doctors to conducts tests and review medical records alongside their in-house staff. 
 

Also, citing one example of one player in the 6th round that Beane didn’t take isn’t necessarily a strong case for him being a poor drafter… 

 

This.  First, there's the point that 30 other teams also passed on Trey Smith or had him off their boards.

 

In the 5th and 6th round, there's a fairly low probability of a player (any player) staying on an NFL roster past his rookie season.  I calculated at one point and IIRC it was something like 15%, and again - that's to be an NFL player, not a starter, not a star. 

 

Of course, sometimes these guys turn into significant contributors -- Milano, Teller.  More often special teams - Neal, Jacquan Johnson, Rayray McCloud

 

Sometimes a team wins the lottery late in the draft or by trading a late round pick.  Looks like that's true for KC.  But passing up a particular late round draft pick doesn't damn a GM, that's nuts.