If the Bills re-sign Edmunds, they're stupid.

[Bakin]

I don’t mean get rid of him 

he’s too young and too much of a freak. 
he needs a different job. 
have him bulk up 20lbs and get him to rush the passer. 
have him line up at DL and get after the QB. 

AT THE VERY LEAST - Get him out of the middle. He’s out of place.  
 

how wrong is this take?

[Dablitzkrieg]

My God we needed another Edmunds thread.   

[NewEra]

IN

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Bakin said:

I don’t mean get rid of him 

he’s too young and too much of a freak. 
he needs a different job. 
have him bulk up 20lbs and get him to rush the passer. 
have him line up at DL and get after the QB. 

AT THE VERY LEAST - Get him out of the middle. He’s out of place.  
 

how wrong is this take?

Pretty wrong.

 

Maybe make him LOSE 20 pounds and have him play corner. Or keep the weight and switch him to FB? Perhaps have him lose 30, then gain 20 then donate a kidney, adopt a kid from the Christmas tree at Walmart and buy him presents for Christmas and them ses if that translates into a good punter.

 

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Literally the entire first season I said put Milano at MLB and Edmunds at WLB. I got tired of fighting over it. This guy is our MLB and we are stuck with it

[Brand J]

Used to say Edmunds was an above average linebacker based solely on his measureables, not his instinct or ability to read plays, but now I think he is in fact average. If Beane can trade him for a 1st he truly is a wizard.

[Frostbite]

14 hours ago, Utah John said:

Edmunds is playing the way Frazier wants him to play. Frazier has constructed the D to work as an 11 man unit.  Edmunds is not called on to make those impact plays.  He's there to eat up space on pass D, and to fill gaps on running plays.  Those gaps fills are a problem, I'll agree.  He's just not as bad a player as people here think he is.  

I think you're right by saying Frazier wants him to play like this. Time after time Edmunds finds a gap and immediately engages the nearest blocker instead of attacking the ball carrier. It's like he's taught to take on blockers to free up the secondary to make a tackle. 

[Bakin]

54 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Pretty wrong.

 

Maybe make him LOSE 20 pounds and have him play corner. Or keep the weight and switch him to FB? Perhaps have him lose 30, then gain 20 then donate a kidney, adopt a kid from the Christmas tree at Walmart and buy him presents for Christmas and them ses if that translates into a good punter.

 

 

Well that’s a pretty ridiculous take. 
Are you saying he just can’t play football then?

[BuffaloBillyG]

8 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Well that’s a pretty ridiculous take. 
Are you saying he just can’t play football then?

It's really not more ridiculous than wanting to move him somewhere else. 

[BuffaloRebound]

20 minutes ago, Frostbite said:

I think you're right by saying Frazier wants him to play like this. Time after time Edmunds finds a gap and immediately engages the nearest blocker instead of attacking the ball carrier. It's like he's taught to take on blockers to free up the secondary to make a tackle. 

It’s madness.  And why we consistently give up big runs.  Instead of wanting your 250 lb linebacker to tackle a Derrick Henry, Jonathan Taylor, or Leonard Fournette, we ask our 200 lb DB’s to make the tackle against dudes 30-40 lbs heavier and with a full head of steam and then wonder why we give up big runs.  

[LABILLBACKER]

26 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Used to say Edmunds was an above average linebacker based solely on his measureables, not his instinct or ability to read plays, but now I think he is in fact average. If Beane can trade him for a 1st he truly is a wizard.

I'd wear it and take a 3rd for him. No way we're getting a 1st. The rest of the league knows Edmunds flaws.  And this stubborn coaching staff refuses to put him outside?

[OldTimer1960]

15 hours ago, damj said:

Oh. I agree. That's on coaching. I'm talking about if he made the tackle in the back field, NE punts, but no... He whiffed 

Come on, what weird Tampa need - 1 foot?  Fournette is a big boy who still had a head of some steam before contact.  It isn’t like Fournette is 5’7”, 185.

[thenorthremembers]

28 minutes ago, Frostbite said:

I think you're right by saying Frazier wants him to play like this. Time after time Edmunds finds a gap and immediately engages the nearest blocker instead of attacking the ball carrier. It's like he's taught to take on blockers to free up the secondary to make a tackle. 

I think this is completely wrong.   They did not draft a linebacker with incredible speed to take up blockers.    This is the Carolina defense, did they ask Kuechly or Davis to take on blockers?  No, because those guys flew around and made plays.  These guys dont have a 1 Tech in front of them who is asked to eat up space and blockers, just to do the same thing.   The Bills drafted Edmunds to be a play maker, the problem is he just isnt a very instinctive football player.

 

What you're seeing is Edmunds failure to disengage when he takes on blockers.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

Yet another Beane Boy Bust!

 

Leonard, Vanderesch & Warner were better LB selections in the Draft- later on. And they traded down to get him.

[Nitro]

25 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Yet another Beane Boy Bust!

 

Leonard, Vanderesch & Warner were better LB selections in the Draft- later on. And they traded down to get him.

Vanderesch is injury prone an d Dallas declined his fifth year option.  The other two were projected as OLB.  The Bills saw Edmunds as a potential MLB.  That has not born out but he has the range and speed to be an effective OLB.  If you watched last nights game closely, they had him rushing the QB fro the outside.  He was disruptive and that is his future position.

[LABILLBACKER]

7 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Vanderesch is injury prone an d Dallas declined his fifth year option.  The other two were projected as OLB.  The Bills saw Edmunds as a potential MLB.  That has not born out but he has the range and speed to be an effective OLB.  If you watched last nights game closely, they had him rushing the QB fro the outside.  He was disruptive and that is his future position.

If you can promise me we keep TE on the outside and allow him to occassionally blitz, I could live with him remaining at a very reasonable $ amount.  You need some semblance of run support/instincts to play mike. It can't be 100% pass coverage only. 

[In Summary]

Edmunds = Rasmus Ristolainen

[Nitro]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If you can promise me we keep TE on the outside and allow him to occassionally blitz, I could live with him remaining at a very reasonable $ amount.  You need some semblance of run support/instincts to play mike. It can't be 100% pass coverage only. 

That is the problem.  The defense is built to stop the pass.   Last summer ESPN polled more than 50 executives, coaches, scouts and players for its rankings on players.   Edmunds was ranked in the top ten.  That is the assessment from the pros.  One thing we all forget is the D line has to occupy the OGs.   Edmunds and Milano to often are taking them on at the second level.   

[Frostbite]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

I think this is completely wrong.   They did not draft a linebacker with incredible speed to take up blockers.    This is the Carolina defense, did they ask Kuechly or Davis to take on blockers?  No, because those guys flew around and made plays.  These guys dont have a 1 Tech in front of them who is asked to eat up space and blockers, just to do the same thing.   The Bills drafted Edmunds to be a play maker, the problem is he just isnt a very instinctive football player.

 

What you're seeing is Edmunds failure to disengage when he takes on blockers.  

Given what's on film, he literally looks for blockers to engage with. And it's not just a here or there thing, it's every game. You're right in the sense that he's not instinctive at all but Fraizer should be able to coach him up enough to try and avoid blockers instead of running into them head on. Just look at Fournette's long TD run.

[Do The Reich Thing]

16 hours ago, damj said:

Once again... Edmunds is close, but fails. 

 

I'm not talking about the touchdown... I'm talking 3rd and 3, he penetrates and fails to make the tackle. 

 

He is good. But he is not an impact LB. 

yup. Make a play for CJ Mosley next year. No way he wastes another year on the Jets

[muppy]

There's a reason they haven't extended Tremaine yet.
Hopefully they can restructure him next year, but leave some cap flexibility to cut bait if needed.

btw, that last play was not on him. Jackson broke coverage and him and Levi ended up on the same WR. Edmunds was trying to fix their ***** up

 

The corners were in a man shell...Edmunds was playing middle zone under, as he does in most coverages.

Of course he shouldn't be expected to man-cover a wide receiver but it's his job to recognize and pick up receivers that encroach his zone, and he's supposed to have the elite physical skills to at least zero in on the ball, make the tackle and limit the yards gained, not get there late and whiff. It's not like they flooded his zone and forced him to freeze or choose, they cleared out the entire area to take advantage of the match up.

He is the weak link of the defense, and they will never get any better as long as people keep making excuses for Tremaine.

 

#Yardrat #harmonkillebrew

[Billy Zabka]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You ought to find a team that agrees with your opinions. You're likely to be able to continue your bellyaching for years and years.

 

After you find a team that agrees to follow, you might want to try to find Pro Bowl voters who agree with you. And pundits. Anyone, really.

 

That's not to say he didn't have a few bad plays tonight, dammit. But the whole defense had a bunch of bad plays, and it's as much that they were up against an extremely good offense as it is that they played badly sometimes. Which they did.

 

He absolutely is an impact LB. Just not the kind you like. Certainly not perfect. Certainly needs work. But nobody's perfect and everybody needs work.

 

 

Yup, big contract offers, very likely including the Bills.

 

And any GM that makes decisions based on whether some bizarre elements of their fan base are displaying weird opinions should be and likely will be sitting with those fans before long, to paraphrase Marv.

Pro Bowl nods are meaningless, anything that takes into account fan voting is a joke.  Unless you think Zemgus Girgensons was worthy of his all-star appearance a few years back.  

 

No Edmunds is not an impact player, but quite obviously the complete opposite.

 

The Bills picked up Edmunds option thinking they could continue to develop this athletic freak and probable figured his age, lack of experience, and shoulder injury last year were factors in his lackluster season last year and he would improve. I'm guessing if they had a redo they wouldn't have guranteed his 12.7 million next year.

[Billy Zabka]

Actually, I disagree with myself, Edmunds is an impact player.  He did impact the game yesterday...

 

When he totally ignored and ran by Fournette to run into the Bucs Olineman on the 47 yard TD that impacted the game...

When Brady looked Edmunds off in coverage and picked apart his zone all day that impacted the game...

When Edmunds had a clear shot at Fournette on the critical 3rd and 1 in the backfield and whiffed...that impacted the game

When Edmunds couldnt make a tackle and got stiff armed by Parryman in Ot...that impacted the game

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Billy Zabka

[biLLyBuFFs]

Yeah, he has overshot his run gaps since joining the team.  His instincts have helped at times but more so hurt the D in containment.  Def not a playcaller worthy linebacker.  

[cba fan]

Klein is a better ML than Edmunds. I still think Edmunds athletic ability is better suited as an OL.

Edmunds can still be captain and call the plays.

 

[damj]

2 hours ago, Do The Reich Thing said:

yup. Make a play for CJ Mosley next year. No way he wastes another year on the Jets

Sign me up for that!

 

2 hours ago, muppy said:

btw, that last play was not on him. Jackson broke coverage and him and Levi ended up on the same WR. Edmunds was trying to fix their ***** up

I don't fault him for that. I fault him for 3rd & 3 and he hits the RB in the backfield and can't make the tackle. His play while good most of the time, always leaves you wanting for more. He's a good player, but he's not elite. He is not a difference maker

[Joe Ferguson]

If AJ "the Calvin" Klein was playing yesterday, Bills would have won by two touchdowns.

[stinky finger]

19 hours ago, 727Bills said:

Depth

 

He's gonna make almost 13 mill. Pretty expensive depth. He's the guy or he isn't.

 

I think he's the latter.

[nedboy7]

29 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

If AJ "the Calvin" Klein was playing yesterday, Bills would have won by two touchdowns.

 

Yeah?  Was he gonna be one of the referees?

 

[stinky finger]

19 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Edmunds had one of his better games today in by far what has been his best season. For a long while out there he was about the only defender playing with fire and bringing the lumber. Was all over the field thudding people.We are chastising him as “awful” now because of the near 4 th down stop and the final play having to cover a wr????  The defense was a master class in the second half. So Highly, highly unlikely to suck it up and strap it on and come back like that against THIS team without some serious heart and execution. It’s the same thread over and over… Edmunds is “awful” because he’s not an all pro and we drafted him too high for that to be acceptable. Show me a coach or trusted film analyst saying Edmund’s played poorly today. Our fan base on this board blows in rough times and we really have very few who have any idea what’s happening out there on the field. I figured it would be fairly obvious that he played a good game tonight but nope.

 

 

As to the bolded -

 

Are you suggesting you're an authority? A trusted film analyst? I'd like to hear your assessment of his career to date. If TE is making an impact, I'm just not seeing it.

 

 

 

[DCofNC]

19 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

That was huge because it was behind the line of scrimmage and would have forced a punt.  He needs to go downhill 

He never goes down hill, there was another play yesterday with a swing pass I believe, the receiver is wrapped up and he just needs to go finish the job.  He runs over then stutter steps and goes in high, allowing more yards, a real LB would have leveled the guy and kept him in place or potentially knocked the ball loose.  Had that been Poyer, they may have had to bring the cart out for the poor SOB, but not the amazing 6’ 5” 250lb butterfly we have,  oh no, he had to flutter and manage to get hit by a guy who was stopped. 
 

He is an athlete, he’s not a football player.  People need to realize the difference.  Tom Brady is the classic example of a football player who is a below NFL average athlete, dude is the GOAT.  Edmunds is one of the biggest freak athletes in the game, but one of the least valuable players on his own team.  
 

Beane already blew it and gave the guy 3x what he is worth, guaranteed for next year so we’ll watch this same ***** show again in 2022.

[Billy Zabka]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

He never goes down hill, there was another play yesterday with a swing pass I believe, the receiver is wrapped up and he just needs to go finish the job.  He runs over then stutter steps and goes in high, allowing more yards, a real LB would have leveled the guy and kept him in place or potentially knocked the ball loose.  Had that been Poyer, they may have had to bring the cart out for the poor SOB, but not the amazing 6’ 5” 250lb butterfly we have,  oh no, he had to flutter and manage to get hit by a guy who was stopped. 
 

He is an athlete, he’s not a football player.  People need to realize the difference.  Tom Brady is the classic example of a football player who is a below NFL average athlete, dude is the GOAT.  Edmunds is one of the biggest freak athletes in the game, but one of the least valuable players on his own team.  
 

Beane already blew it and gave the guy 3x what he is worth, guaranteed for next year so we’ll watch this same ***** show again in 2022.

 

Maybe having a poor tackler that shies away from contact and can't get off blocks as your MLB is not a good idea... 

[Billy Zabka]

Doesn't really matter how fast Stutterstep McGee is when he runs right by the play, but he will keep racking up his hug tackles 6 to 8 yards downfield so his apologists can cite his big tackle numbers.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Billy Zabka

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, FFadpecr said:

That last TD in OT had nothing to do with Edmunds...that was on the pass-rush (or lack thereof) for giving Brady 4 seconds in a clean pocket.

 

Look how amazing the Bucs O-Line is at Pass-Blocking....The Bills rush 5 guys and Brady still has a completely clean pocket after 4 seconds.

 

Impossible for a LB to cover a 4.2 speed WR when the QB has this much time. 

 

Focus your eyes on the Bills pass-rush here....Brady stands FLAT-FOOTED with nobody even close to him. Of course he's going to find an open WR for a big play. Blaming Edmunds is silly.

 

 

You also notice he just stood there and could have jammed the receiver at the line,  let's he run right by.  He jams him that may have been enough for rush to get there.  You know you rushing extra man so you cannot let guys just run free

 

Either way our pass rushers are just not good enough,  they had enough time and just could not get home

[DuckyBoys]

I hold no hope he will ever learn to play the position  Maybe they at least carry a bigger more physical lb next season that can get downhill

[Southern_Bills]

He is definitely not good enough, I usually defend him but he misses way too many plays. Not sure we can get better than him week 1 next year, but you have to move on because he isn't going to cut it.

 

If he reads the play correctly he still gets out played physically. Which speaks volumes to his ceiling. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

It might come at a sizable discount since he’s still mostly a ‘might have potential guy’ and just doesn’t have the results on the field consistently.  Mcdermott asks a lot of his linebackers they are kind of on an island out there so even if we bring in someone new that looks good they might struggle too 

[nucci]

20 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It might come at a sizable discount since he’s still mostly a ‘might have potential guy’ and just doesn’t have the results on the field consistently.  Mcdermott asks a lot of his linebackers they are kind of on an island out there so even if we bring in someone new that looks good they might struggle too 

after 5 years?

[I'm Spartacus]

I think John Holicek was better. Let this guy go.

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, Billy Zabka said:

Pro Bowl nods are meaningless, anything that takes into account fan voting is a joke.  Unless you think Zemgus Girgensons was worthy of his all-star appearance a few years back.  

 

No Edmunds is not an impact player, but quite obviously the complete opposite.

 

The Bills picked up Edmunds option thinking they could continue to develop this athletic freak and probable figured his age, lack of experience, and shoulder injury last year were factors in his lackluster season last year and he would improve. I'm guessing if they had a redo they wouldn't have guranteed his 12.7 million next year.

Exactly,  if McD knew he would see TE continue to struggle instinctually there's no way in hell he'd gift him 12.7M.  I have no problem in him taking one final (expensive) peek into Tremaine's development with the 5th year. But this mike experiment is officially over unless he agrees to go outside on a cheaper deal. Let another team deal with him.