Mitch Morse seems to be at the ‘Center’ of Bills ails -TheAthletic

[Chandler#81]

“… However, the Bills’ trip to Jacksonville started a negative trend. It was the first time an opposing team turned the passing offense into an inefficient unit, as the Jaguars dared the Bills to run and the Bills had no counter. It began the Bills’ desire to get the ground game going a bit more, and they tried a lot of different blocking and rushing principles to accomplish it.

That brings us to Morse, who remains a good pass blocker and is an asset in run blocking schemes centered on athleticism. However, if the Bills are insistent on being more physical than the opponent with power run schemes, as they did at times against the Patriots, Morse will likely struggle. That was the case on Monday, as Morse easily had the worst game of his season and was a liability as a run blocker. He even showed some struggles as a pass blocker against bigger defensive tackles, which isn’t usually the case. Either way, the Bills needed a great deal more from Morse in a bad-weather game, where winning at the line of scrimmage was at the top of head coach Sean McDermott’s mind after the game. Over the last five games, Morse has a 2.42 GPA, and his season-long grade has plummeted. So it is fair to wonder what this means going forward, similar to last season when things unraveled with Morse.”

This has been a topic of discussion since he arrived via FA. His contract is up and we’d save $8.5M to let him walk. For as efficient as he is in passpro and Allen’s security blanket, he’s a detriment in the run game. Most importantly, our opponents know this. I seriously think we bid him farewell this offseason, not bothering to tend him even a lesser contract. Feliciano has shown well at C vs. the run, not so well vs. the pass -or at Guard. 

If he is shown the door, how do we adequately rebuild the OLine to balance the offense? This has been a crappy weather season already, so Mother Nature has dictated a lot of what we can do offensively.  No reason believe next year will be all sunshine and roses..

 

Are there players on the roster who can make the jump? Bates? Jamil Douglas?  Jacob Capra? Ford?? Bobby freakin’ Hart???

 

(excellent article, btw, for subscribers)

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Same conversation we had last year. I'm not sure what people expected? 

[Chandler#81]

Well, the article begins with a paragraph extolling his virtues as a pass blocking great, utilizing their All-22 criteria. A good pass blocking Center is certainly a Must for a Daboll/Allen offense. 
 

In short, I don’t think our next Center is currently on the team.

[Gisele]

6 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, the article begins with a paragraph extolling his virtues as a pass blocking great, utilizing their All-22 criteria. A good pass blocking Center is certainly a Must for a Daboll/Allen offense. 
 

In short, I don’t think our next Center is currently on the team.

Still it's so odd that so many of our linemen are regressing.  Something is (or isn't) going on with coaching.  

[thenorthremembers]

They could go get Tyler Linderbaum in the first round, use him as a Left Guard next year and then switch him to Center when Morse's contract is up after next season.   Regardless, Mitch is going to have to take a paycut to stay around.  11 million for an average center is not going to cut it with the low cap.

[CincyBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, the article begins with a paragraph extolling his virtues as a pass blocking great, utilizing their All-22 criteria. A good pass blocking Center is certainly a Must for a Daboll/Allen offense. 
 

In short, I don’t think our next Center is currently on the team.

I suspect that better guard play would elevate Morse.

 

 

[NewEra]

Maybe we should draft Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round!!  What a steal that would be!!  Oh wait.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Let me add I think it's guard play and not Morse. I do think the Bills should rebuild their interior OL next year.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, Gisele said:

Still it's so odd that so many of our linemen are regressing.  Something is (or isn't) going on with coaching.  

Real quick PFF check, just to see if they agree:

Horrible, one of the worst at his position (maybe the technical term is "garbage?"): Ford

Replacement Level: Feliciano, Boettger

Below Average: Morse, Dawkins

Average-ish starter: Williams

[Big Turk]

We need to get physical mailers that are good at pass pro. That's tough to find.

[Sherlock Holmes]

19 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Well, the article begins with a paragraph extolling his virtues as a pass blocking great, utilizing their All-22 criteria. A good pass blocking Center is certainly a Must for a Daboll/Allen offense. 
 

In short, I don’t think our next Center is currently on the team.

Creed Humphrey 

[Robert Paulson]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Maybe we should draft Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round!!  What a steal that would be!!  Oh wait.  

I  am still pissed about this

[BuffaloBillyG]

40 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

“… However, the Bills’ trip to Jacksonville started a negative trend. It was the first time an opposing team turned the passing offense into an inefficient unit, as the Jaguars dared the Bills to run and the Bills had no counter. It began the Bills’ desire to get the ground game going a bit more, and they tried a lot of different blocking and rushing principles to accomplish it.

That brings us to Morse, who remains a good pass blocker and is an asset in run blocking schemes centered on athleticism. However, if the Bills are insistent on being more physical than the opponent with power run schemes, as they did at times against the Patriots, Morse will likely struggle. That was the case on Monday, as Morse easily had the worst game of his season and was a liability as a run blocker. He even showed some struggles as a pass blocker against bigger defensive tackles, which isn’t usually the case. Either way, the Bills needed a great deal more from Morse in a bad-weather game, where winning at the line of scrimmage was at the top of head coach Sean McDermott’s mind after the game. Over the last five games, Morse has a 2.42 GPA, and his season-long grade has plummeted. So it is fair to wonder what this means going forward, similar to last season when things unraveled with Morse.”

This has been a topic of discussion since he arrived via FA. His contract is up and we’d save $8.5M to let him walk. For as efficient as he is in passpro and Allen’s security blanket, he’s a detriment in the run game. Most importantly, our opponents know this. I seriously think we bid him farewell this offseason, not bothering to tend him even a lesser contract. Feliciano has shown well at C vs. the run, not so well vs. the pass -or at Guard. 

If he is shown the door, how do we adequately rebuild the OLine to balance the offense? This has been a crappy weather season already, so Mother Nature has dictated a lot of what we can do offensively.  No reason believe next year will be all sunshine and roses..

 

Are there players on the roster who can make the jump? Bates? Jamil Douglas?  Jacob Capra? Ford?? Bobby freakin’ Hart???

 

(excellent article, btw, for subscribers)

If Bradley Bozeman of the Ravens is allowed to hit FA he would be a guy I could see the Bills make a run at.

 

Starter on a tough physical line that does excellent on run blocking. Haa position flexibility to play G. Also is their Walter Payton Man of the Year nominee.

 

However just as likely I could see them rolling with Feliciano at C next year if Bobby Johnson is back.

Edited December 10, 2021 by No Place To Hyde

[BuffaloRebound]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

McDermott can preach and force the physical run game all he wants…. He doesn’t seem to understand the Bills don’t have the personnel for it…. 

Agreed.  This is the team he built.  Can’t put all your resources on that side of ball  into building a top notch passing game and then whine that we can’t run the ball.  

[Gugny]

38 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Are there players on the roster who can make the jump? Bates? Jamil Douglas?  Jacob Capra? Ford?? Bobby freakin’ Hart???

 

I have lost every ounce of faith that Ford will ever be a serviceable O lineman in the NFL.  He is a bona fide bust, IMO.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

He can't anchor against large DTs. 

 

We've know this forever. 

[bmur66]

I have noticed the same. Morse at times appears physically overmatched. He was the best available at the time to replace Eric Wood. He is often at the center of the wall of guys standing there that the RB runs into. He's not moving people. I though Feliciano did well filling in for him last year.

[BringBackFlutie]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He can't anchor against large DTs. 

 

We've know this forever. 

 

Right. He can't anchor in general. I'm not sure how he's a better pass blocker than run blocker.  Run blockers are usually more athletic. 

[Solomon Grundy]

43 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Maybe we should draft Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round!!  What a steal that would be!!  Oh wait.  

I wonder if Cody Ford scared them from taking Humphrey? Former Sooners

24 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I have lost every ounce of faith that Ford will ever be a serviceable O lineman in the NFL.  He is a bona fide bust, IMO.  

Ford was good on the move in Oklahoma, like article say about Morse

 

37 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

We need to get physical mailers that are good at pass pro. That's tough to find.

Trey Smith is doing well in KC

Edited December 10, 2021 by Solomon Grundy

[Solomon Grundy]

49 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

They could go get Tyler Linderbaum in the first round, use him as a Left Guard next year and then switch him to Center when Morse's contract is up after next season.   Regardless, Mitch is going to have to take a paycut to stay around.  11 million for an average center is not going to cut it with the low cap.

There are a lot of good centers in upcoming draft. Alec Lindstrom, Dohnovan West, etc. Wouldn’t waste 1st on center. I’d like for the Bills to draft another tackle, Trevor Penning, and move Dawkins inside. Don’t think Penning would be there in 20s though.

[UConn James]

50 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

They could go get Tyler Linderbaum in the first round, use him as a Left Guard next year and then switch him to Center when Morse's contract is up after next season.   Regardless, Mitch is going to have to take a paycut to stay around.  11 million for an average center is not going to cut it with the low cap.

I haven’t seen many college games or watched them with scrutiny, but Linderbaum (Iowa Hawkeyes) vs. the Michigan DL last weekend… he held his own and the center of the line was actually pushing forward / not getting blown back into the QB which is something we haven’t seen in Buffalo since forever. NFL protections are different of course but hoping Beane takes a good look there. Center May be the second most important position on any team.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Gisele said:

Still it's so odd that so many of our linemen are regressing.  Something is (or isn't) going on with coaching.  

I am not sure that's it. Williams got paid his last big guaranteed money and Dawkins had a very bad case of covid that has probably affected him (although he played reasonably well vs NE). Those are the two real downgrades this season. Morse is basically the same player as before, and the rest of the poor interior line play is a product of a lot of injuries and reshuffling. Not sure it has anything to do with coaching.

[foreboding]

I think we will be players in FA this year on the o-line. We clearly need help and one draft won't get it done.

[dave mcbride]

54 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Real quick PFF check, just to see if they agree:

Horrible, one of the worst at his position (maybe the technical term is "garbage?"): Ford

Replacement Level: Feliciano, Boettger

Below Average: Morse, Dawkins

Average-ish starter: Williams

Oh man. Williams has been awful. What are they analyzing??

[Chandler#81]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Oh man. Williams has been awful. What are they analyzing??

What have they EVER analyzed accurately?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

I don't think Mitch is responsible for the Colts and Patriots running all over us.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

What have EVER analyzed accurately?

I think they basically assign the same weight to a second and six play from the Bills own 29 yard line in the second quarter with the Bills leading 13-0 as to a 3rd and 8 play from the opponent's 37 yard line with 3:40 to go in the game with the Bills down by 6. On the first, he holds his block. On the second, he matadors a pass rusing DT into Allen's lap. Those two situations are not the same and should not be treated as such. But that's what they appear to do. 

[LABILLBACKER]

I like Morse and believe he's been unspectacular yet dependable. He's not as bad as Boettger,  Ford or Williams. Obviously this organization knows the OL is it's #1 flaw. Morse's age at near 30 may factor in. My opinion is we need road graders, maulers. Especially if we stupidly insist on an open stadium. We can probably build around Brown & Dawkins but that's it. And Doyle doesn't look like he'll last either? You have decent tackles. Now find great guards and a center.

Edited December 10, 2021 by LABILLBACKER

[Solomon Grundy]

6 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

I don't think Mitch is responsible for the Colts and Patriots running all over us.

No, but is responsible for the Bills not being able to run against them

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I wonder if Cody Ford scared them from taking Humphrey? Former Sooners

Ford was good on the move in Oklahoma, like article say about Morse

 

Trey Smith is doing well in KC

maybe.  Not sure. I’m not down on Basham but creed might be the best center in the league, already.  He’s be exactly what this run game needs. A big nasty mauler.

[Solomon Grundy]

11 minutes ago, foreboding said:

I think we will be players in FA this year on the o-line. We clearly need help and one draft won't get it done.

Get the linemen in the draft!! Don’t waste valuable coin on FA. Should learn lesson from Morse contract. There are some good, quality linemen in draft. Utah, Boston College, Iowa, Kentucky. Get the scouts out to their programs and get to work

[Nextmanup]

If Josh hits a few more passes than he did against the Patriots, no one is talking about "getting the offense in balance"!!!!

 

I expect our first draft pick to go toward an OL and that we might even grab 2 more in free agency or even a trade.

Beane can be creative.  We don't need a great OL; we just need one that is acceptable! 

 

Easily fixable in one off-season, though 2 is better.

 

Our Josh window is still WIDE OPEN.

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

“… However, the Bills’ trip to Jacksonville started a negative trend. It was the first time an opposing team turned the passing offense into an inefficient unit, as the Jaguars dared the Bills to run and the Bills had no counter. It began the Bills’ desire to get the ground game going a bit more, and they tried a lot of different blocking and rushing principles to accomplish it.

That brings us to Morse, who remains a good pass blocker and is an asset in run blocking schemes centered on athleticism. However, if the Bills are insistent on being more physical than the opponent with power run schemes, as they did at times against the Patriots, Morse will likely struggle. That was the case on Monday, as Morse easily had the worst game of his season and was a liability as a run blocker. He even showed some struggles as a pass blocker against bigger defensive tackles, which isn’t usually the case. Either way, the Bills needed a great deal more from Morse in a bad-weather game, where winning at the line of scrimmage was at the top of head coach Sean McDermott’s mind after the game. Over the last five games, Morse has a 2.42 GPA, and his season-long grade has plummeted. So it is fair to wonder what this means going forward, similar to last season when things unraveled with Morse.”

This has been a topic of discussion since he arrived via FA. His contract is up and we’d save $8.5M to let him walk. For as efficient as he is in passpro and Allen’s security blanket, he’s a detriment in the run game. Most importantly, our opponents know this. I seriously think we bid him farewell this offseason, not bothering to tend him even a lesser contract. Feliciano has shown well at C vs. the run, not so well vs. the pass -or at Guard. 

If he is shown the door, how do we adequately rebuild the OLine to balance the offense? This has been a crappy weather season already, so Mother Nature has dictated a lot of what we can do offensively.  No reason believe next year will be all sunshine and roses..

 

Are there players on the roster who can make the jump? Bates? Jamil Douglas?  Jacob Capra? Ford?? Bobby freakin’ Hart???

 

(excellent article, btw, for subscribers)

The fact is Morse has been a problem going back to last season,  another player we overpaid on in free agency.  Pressure is always coming up the middle which means Josh cannot step up in the pocket and is usually making thows of his back foot which effects accuracy.  There is a reason why Morse gave back some money last offseason and i believe he will be gone this offseason with his cap number of 11.2 mllion.  Very difficult to fix things so far into the season but if this team fails to make the playoffs i believe Morse and a few other underperforming players who make good money will be let go and Beeane upgrades through free agency & draft.  I think Beanne gave some players a pass last offseason because they team had a great year.   

 

 

Fans should check out OVER THE CAP site which highlights implications for cutting players in 2022. I see a lot of dead weight being let go

[TheFunPolice]

Time to upgrade the interior OL

 

I think Dawkins and Brown will make nice bookends at tackle for years to come. Dawkins hasn't been 100% all year IMO 

 

And let's make it opposite day every time Beane and McDermott utter the words "slim down" to their linemen. 

 

They WANT smaller, more athletic linemen, so this is what happens. Feliciano was a big mauler and now he's into Yoga With Adrienne and "being more flexible" and slim and trim. 

 

And notice... he suddenly is worse when he plays and suffered a serious muscle injury and has missed a ton of games. 

 

Save slim and trim for the beach once you retire. We need big, mean OL who would rather drive you into the turf and take the holding penalty than let you even breathe on our QB

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[The Frankish Reich]

21 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Oh man. Williams has been awful. What are they analyzing??

Fine, but I think you're missing my point. We can quibble with their individual scoring, but their bottom line meets the eye test - 6 of the 7 (I had forgotten to include Spencer Brown, who also ranks in the low 60s - poor) offensive linemen who've seen significant action this year have been in the awful-to-well below average range, with only Williams (barely) rating in the average range.

 

PFF hatred is so great here that people will argue with their scores even when those scores basically support their contentions ....

Edited December 10, 2021 by The Frankish Reich

[dave mcbride]

Just now, The Frankish Reich said:

Fine, but I think you're missing my point. We can quibble with their individual scoring, but their bottom line meets the eye test - 6 of the 7 (I had forgotten to include Spencer Brown, who also ranks in the low 60s - poor) offensive linemen who've seen significant action this year have been in the awful-to-well below average range, with only Williams (barely) rating in the average range.

I get that.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

“… However, the Bills’ trip to Jacksonville started a negative trend. It was the first time an opposing team turned the passing offense into an inefficient unit, as the Jaguars dared the Bills to run and the Bills had no counter. It began the Bills’ desire to get the ground game going a bit more, and they tried a lot of different blocking and rushing principles to accomplish it.

That brings us to Morse, who remains a good pass blocker and is an asset in run blocking schemes centered on athleticism. However, if the Bills are insistent on being more physical than the opponent with power run schemes, as they did at times against the Patriots, Morse will likely struggle. That was the case on Monday, as Morse easily had the worst game of his season and was a liability as a run blocker. He even showed some struggles as a pass blocker against bigger defensive tackles, which isn’t usually the case. Either way, the Bills needed a great deal more from Morse in a bad-weather game, where winning at the line of scrimmage was at the top of head coach Sean McDermott’s mind after the game. Over the last five games, Morse has a 2.42 GPA, and his season-long grade has plummeted. So it is fair to wonder what this means going forward, similar to last season when things unraveled with Morse.”

This has been a topic of discussion since he arrived via FA. His contract is up and we’d save $8.5M to let him walk. For as efficient as he is in passpro and Allen’s security blanket, he’s a detriment in the run game. Most importantly, our opponents know this. I seriously think we bid him farewell this offseason, not bothering to tend him even a lesser contract. Feliciano has shown well at C vs. the run, not so well vs. the pass -or at Guard. 

If he is shown the door, how do we adequately rebuild the OLine to balance the offense? This has been a crappy weather season already, so Mother Nature has dictated a lot of what we can do offensively.  No reason believe next year will be all sunshine and roses..

 

Are there players on the roster who can make the jump? Bates? Jamil Douglas?  Jacob Capra? Ford?? Bobby freakin’ Hart???

 

(excellent article, btw, for subscribers)

I’ve mentioned before I met his uncle on the flight to the opener and he said it would be his last season as a Bill. I said I thought he had another year on his contract and he just shrugged and said “you know…..”  For what that’s worth. I don’t feel bad repeating it if he’s telling strangers in an airport. 

 

Maybe it’s the concussion stuff and he’s made enough $$$ to be comfortable. He has a wife and kids and maybe he just wants to take care of himself. 

 

Regardless, wish him good health. 

 

 

.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Augie

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

I’ve mentioned before I met his uncle on the flight to the opener and he said it would be his last season as a Bill. I said I thought he had another year on his contract and he just shrugged and said “you know…..”  For what that’s worth. I don’t feel bad repeating it if he’s telling strangers in an airport. 

That's hilarious. 

Dead cap hit for Morse would be $3.75 million, salary would be $11.25. Given his performance, it's fair to say the uncle (even without inside knowledge) nailed it.

[JaCrispy]

19 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I like Morse and believe he's been unspectacular yet dependable. He's not as bad as Boettger,  Ford or Williams. Obviously this organization knows the OL is it's #1 flaw. Morse's age at near 30 may factor in. My opinion is we need road graders, maulers. Especially if we stupidly insist on an open stadium. We can probably build around Brown & Dawkins but that's it. And Doyle doesn't look like he'll last either? You have decent tackles. Now find great guards and a center.

You mean dependably unspectacular? 😉

[Nitro]

I have viewed Morse as a stop gap measure.  This off season draft his replacement or sign a FA.   The interior O line needs an upgrade in talent.