I wouldn't trade Allen for anyone in the league

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Youre always first in line to criticize the guy.  The contract was a no brainer.   Guy doesnt panic because the game is close.  He runs for his life half the time and has to make plays out of nothing.   At this point he may as well throw hinself the ball.   

 

Actually it wasn't, 5th year option sure but there was absolutely no reason for Beane to rush pay a guy who had one good season and was somewhat of an historical anomoly making the type of leap he did in year 3. A good GM would have made him prove it again like Mahomes did.

 

But again, not Allen's fault that we have a GM whose's made a series of very bad moves here that wanted to justify his only true good draft pick. But this is actually good news for folks like myself that see through Beane and McDermott because guess who will be the first to go between them and Allen...

[NewEra]

Agreed.  Now we just have to build a wall in front of him which will allow him to play to his best ability.  
 

the titans…..had 2 waiver wire Rbs run 31 times for 240 yards ragainst that same D that our RBs ran for 60 yards on 19 carries.
 

build a run game.  Thrive off of play action dominance and never be put in a position where the weather can have that kind of affect on what we want to do on offense.  

[SirAndrew]

Allen carried us, what I haven’t seen mentioned is the fact that our OC took his star QB out of the game with the wind at his back in the first quarter. We went all in on the run when Josh should have been given opportunity earlier on. 

[Bill from NYC]

15 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

Perhaps; he has shown his mental acuity.

 

But I think his physical tools are, quite simply, lacking and as such he will never teach an elite level (ie, on par w JA17). Brady had much better physical skills.

 

I mean, didn't we see how utterly slow and ineffective he was in the missed roll out pass? I was shocked, tbh. 

 

Hell, he's slower than Alec Baldwin accepting responsibility for his actions.

Look, Mac is not as good as Josh Allen the odds are overwhelmingly against him ever being THAT good, but Josh has HOF potential. This being a given, please tell us how many games he must win this season before your post will in fact be ridiculous? 10? 11? 12?

You are judging him in a road game with 55 mph wind gusts? Seriously?

You would be better off just trying to wish him away LOL!

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Allen carried us, what I haven’t seen mentioned is the fact that our OC took his star QB out of the game with the wind at his back in the first quarter. We went all in on the run when Josh should have been given opportunity earlier on. 

That was heavily mentioned in the game thread as it was unfolding.  It's just one of many things that fall under the umbrella of "terrible coaching" from last night.

 

Just fundamentally WRONG strategy.

 

 

[cage]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

No QB not even Rogers could have thrown the absolute laser he threw in 50 mph winds on the final drive to Diggs along the sidelines…he is the best offensive player in the nfl just a shame he can’t play TE, RB, or and G

corrected

[78thealltimegreat]

34 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Actually it wasn't, 5th year option sure but there was absolutely no reason for Beane to rush pay a guy who had one good season and was somewhat of an historical anomoly making the type of leap he did in year 3. A good GM would have made him prove it again like Mahomes did.

 

But again, not Allen's fault that we have a GM whose's made a series of very bad moves here that wanted to justify his only true good draft pick. But this is actually good news for folks like myself that see through Beane and McDermott because guess who will be the first to go between them and Allen...

Who exactly where you going to replace Allen with? Mitch trubisky? Trade him for draft picks to like the Saints or Eagles?  
  Maybe hope to tank a year and hit on another QB that’s in Allen’s area code? While Josh would have been off in like New Orleans with a guy like Sean Payton building an offensive around him.
 Wait till you see the deals Mayfield and Jackson sign much less Herbert and Murray Josh will look like a bargain in 3 years.

 But of course despite almost identical stats and leading the pro bowl voting for QBs he’s peaked 

Edited December 7, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat

[BuffaloBills1998]

4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Who exactly where you going to replace Allen with? Mitch trubisky? Trade him for draft picks to like the Saints or Eagles?  
  Maybe hope to tank a year and hit on another QB that’s in Allen’s area code? While Josh would have been off in like New Orleans with a guy like Sean Payton building an offensive around him.
 Wait till you see the deals Mayfield and Jackson sign much less Herbert and Murray Josh will look like a bargain in 3 years.

 But of course despite almost identical stats and leading the pro bowl voting for QBs he’s peaked 

Mayfield will get paid some Money but I don’t think it’ll be the Browns that will do it. Even I’m doubting Jackson will get paid much

[78thealltimegreat]

Just now, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Mayfield will get paid some Money but I don’t think it’ll be the Browns that will do it. Even I’m doubting Jackson will get paid much

Lamar Jackson will sign the largest contract in league history mark this post 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Lamar Jackson will sign the largest contract in league history mark this post 

Hope so, he deserves it

 

re: Allen…this is a sub .500 team over the last two seasons without him

[Jrb1979]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

I've heard so many takes that it said nothing about Jones, because they didn't have to pass. But I agree 100% - it was clear to me what they thought of Jones, and where they think his ceiling might be.  

 

We'll never fear Mac Jones.  He'll work great in BB's system, but lots of QB's would & could.  We just need to build early leads on that team for different results.

 

Build leads seems to work when you play the bad teams. This year they haven't looked good against teams over .500. 

 

As far as Jones goes, why throw it last night when you were running it effectively. 

[Charles Romes]

Couldn’t run or stop the run in a 50mpw wind game. Yet, still had a chance to win because of Allen.  The team seems to be waiting around doing nothing to see if he can win every game all by himself.  

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, Success said:

The only QB I think is really "better" is Rogers, and he's getting old - so I don't make that trade.

 

Objectively, there isn't another QB in the league I'd rather have.  He can literally do everything at this point - touch passes, bombs, playing in the wind & bad conditions, running, diagnosing defenses & changing plays at the line.  HIs play is guts personified - he is fearless out there.  Outside of Brady, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a QB who is more driven, competitive and obsessed w/ improving.

 

Compared to Mac Jones?  Please. We'll have the better QB as long as he's in NE, by a mile. Last night showed me that the hype is just that - hype.  I know people will say they didn't have to pass, but they didn't WANT to pass. Jones is a game manager playing under the best coach & in one of the best systems. He'd be average at best anywhere else.

 

 

 

 

Ummmmm...Mac Jones is so good that he only needed to complete 2 passes to beat us.  Clearly he is THAT good.

 

Just kidding.  I agree.  I wouldn't take anyone RIGHT NOW over Allen.  The guy plays his ass off, has generational talent, and is gutsy as hell.

[thenorthremembers]

57 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Actually it wasn't, 5th year option sure but there was absolutely no reason for Beane to rush pay a guy who had one good season and was somewhat of an historical anomoly making the type of leap he did in year 3. A good GM would have made him prove it again like Mahomes did.

 

But again, not Allen's fault that we have a GM whose's made a series of very bad moves here that wanted to justify his only true good draft pick. But this is actually good news for folks like myself that see through Beane and McDermott because guess who will be the first to go between them and Allen...

The third year leap had a lot to do about making the talent around him a ton better.    Not to mention he came into the league with Rick Dennison as his Offensive Coordinator.   Mahomes came into the league with a historically great offensive head coach, and loads of talent to throw to.

 

It is incredible to me that you think Beane and McDermott have made a series of bad moves, when they are the only GM and HC pairing that have been successful in Buffalo in 20 years.    Its also incredible to me that you think giving Allen who is a top ten player at his position an extension was a bad move.    Winning in the NFL is incredibly hard, winning a Super Bowl is next to impossible.   I think your takes have a lot more to do about current emotions, than actual reality. 

[FilthyBeast]

33 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Who exactly where you going to replace Allen with? Mitch trubisky? Trade him for draft picks to like the Saints or Eagles?  
  Maybe hope to tank a year and hit on another QB that’s in Allen’s area code? While Josh would have been off in like New Orleans with a guy like Sean Payton building an offensive around him.
 Wait till you see the deals Mayfield and Jackson sign much less Herbert and Murray Josh will look like a bargain in 3 years.

 But of course despite almost identical stats and leading the pro bowl voting for QBs he’s peaked 

 

I'm not saying Allen needs to be replaced, I'm saying the smart move by this organization would have been to not extend him and let the season play out just like the Browns and Ravens have with mayfield and jackson respectively.

 

It's not like Beane would have had to pay much more than $250M if he waited and Allen had an even better season this year but again he showed his poor judgement by rushing to get this deal done and having the Bills PR department put out a fluff pieces about how it got done 'behind the scenes' because they must relieving believes he's some sort of genius.

 

Assuming Allen has reached is ceiling or progressively gets worth this contracts not only ends the Beane/McDermott era but kills the franchise in general for the foreseable future. Bottom line it didn't have to happen.

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I'm not saying Allen needs to be replaced, I'm saying the smart move by this organization would have been to not extend him and let the season play out just like the Browns and Ravens have with mayfield and jackson respectively.

 

It's not like Beane would have had to pay much more than $250M if he waited and Allen had an even better season this year but again he showed his poor judgement by rushing to get this deal done and having the Bills PR department put out a fluff pieces about how it got done 'behind the scenes' because they must relieving believes he's some sort of genius.

 

Assuming Allen has reached is ceiling or progressively gets worth this contracts not only ends the Beane/McDermott era but kills the franchise in general for the foreseable future. Bottom line it didn't have to happen.

Meanwhile if you wait until the end of the season you end up having to pay more because of the cap increase and the extension of other players at the position.  If the Ravens want to extend Lamar, they will have to give him more than what Josh was given.    If they dont give him the contract you also have to go through a whole season of having to answer questions about "whether Josh is your guy" or "when will the contract get done."  Not doing it, when it was inevitable would have been incredibly stupid. 

[CorkScrewHill]

2 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Again it's not that I don't believe Allen may not be the long term answer, it's what's happening at present and how he has taken a big step backwards after signing the richest QB deal in league history.

 

But for sure I would still take Mahomes or Kyler Murray (right now) over Allen if I had the opportunity to do it. Still think Lamar Jackson has been phenomenal as well given that half his team is on IR but that may be catching up to him as well over the last few weeks.

 

So you are saying there are three QBs you would take before Allen .. all reasonable choices in my opinion. I personally believe that Mahomes has a better track record .. but all of your selections were upper-echelon guys .. so you may order them one way and I may order them slightly differently, but each of them will have a contract at least as large as Josh Allen's .. so did they overpay? I would say no.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He still doesn’t, last nights game told me everything about Mac Jones. He’s an average game manager at best. It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t trust Jones

In one of the many, many other post-game threads, I looked back at what happened in that famous 1974 game where the Bills and the Jets combined for 2 completed passes. It was a September rain and wind storm with gusts in the 40-50 mph range.

Joe Namath threw 18 passes. 2 completions. 3 interceptions.

Joe Ferguson threw 2 passes. 0 completions.

The Bills won the game.

Nobody anywhere ever accused Joe Ferguson of having a weak arm. And he attempted two passes. 

It's called strategy, not "trust" of your QB. Back in Sept 1973 and again last night one coach got it.

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He still doesn’t, last nights game told me everything about Mac Jones. He’s an average game manager at best. It’s pretty obvious he doesn’t trust Jones

or maybe he just doesn't trust him in games with 60 mPH win gusts.  BB is focused on winning games not proving to Bills fans he trusts Mac Jones. 

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Allen is a great QB. He was very good yesterday. I think he was also part of the execution problem in RZ last drive (he missed Diggs on 2nd down and Beasley on 4th), but that is fine, nobody is perfect. He is due for 4the quarter comeback and that makes me actually feel good with playoffs getting closer. I think people underestimate how bad we are running this season from variance point of view. We had chances (sometimes multiple) and did not manage to execute 4th Q comebacks in all our losses except Indy, and that will not happen forever. We are not that bad, we are just very unlucky.

 

 

If we cut our drops in half last night (there were probably 5 or 6) we win that game.

 

Knox dropped 2 and got outmuscled for one in the EZ.  Diggs dropped that INCREDIBLE long TD pass from Allen that was as on-the-money as you could be in that weather (yes... I call that a drop because I think that's a catch Diggs would typically make... difficult but catchable).  Beasley dropped one.  Sanders saw one go off his hands.

 

It just got ridiculous last night.  In retrospect Allen was spectacular given the weather conditions.  The problem was his OC didn't bother tapping into the aspect of his game that was the most obvious thing to use and probably would have further ensured us of a W: Josh's legs.

 

Not a single designed QB run in those weather conditions is just criminal.

 

Allen is fantastic but I want to see him reach a point mentally where he's like Manning or Kelly and is allowed to call ALL his own plays on the field.  I know it wouldn't be perfect, but I don't think I'd ever call him a coward... and we had some cowardly coaching yesterday.

[Nextmanup]

Huh?  Suggesting Allen does anything Mahomes does not is absurd.

 

 

[SWATeam]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

What's the final score of that game if we swap QBs with NE?  38-3?  

I don't think we win by THAT much with Jones, personally.

[Success]

Regarding Jones - he has skated by against bad competition with superior game plans.

 

If the Colts shut him down - combined w/ NE's lack of trust in him yesterday - the doubt will start to creep in.

 

They are not winning the SB with this rookie.

 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, Success said:

Regarding Jones - he has skated by against bad competition with superior game plans.

 

If the Colts shut him down - combined w/ NE's lack of trust in him yesterday - the doubt will start to creep in.

 

They are not winning the SB with this rookie.

 

Probably not, but winning the East is embarrassing enough.

[Milanos Milano]

8 hours ago, Success said:

Did anyone catch BB's extended conversation with Josh after the game?  That was respect.  He went out of his way to find Allen.

 

Last year before the 2nd game, BB made some comments about JA that were uncharacteristic. He didn't criticize him, but it was clear he thought Allen was overhyped.

 

I think he's come around on that.  

 

If BB had Allen, we would be talking about 15 years of another Pats dynasty. Even BB can only dream of what he could do with a QB like Allen. He knows and it shows. 

[Milanos Milano]

We are only just beginning to witness the legend of Josh Allen. Imagine what Allen is going to do in the coming years once he get’s a better supporting cast. Imagine the nasty things Allen is going to do with a better o-line and a rushing attack. My goodness, just thinking about a RB like Jonathan Taylor and a better o-line makes me excited for the future. I honestly can’t wait because I know Allen is going to bring multiple Lombardis here. 

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, FFadpecr said:

 

 

This! 

This is what I’d do. I’d draft OG, OC, OT, OG and a few CBs as insurance late in the draft. I’d then give the RBs one last chance at a fair evaluation with a better revamped offensive line. This draft is not good for RBs anyways and not many good FAs. Let’s see what happens with a better o-line and we can always make a trade for a RB halfway through the season if Singletary still isn’t showing signs of breaking out. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, FFadpecr said:

 

That's not even a legitimate critique. A complete myth. If anything, Allen actually AVOIDS the most sacks in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

Imagine that! Even with a bottom tier o-line. My goodness, just imagine what Allen is going to do with a top 5 o-line unit!!!

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

What's the final score of that game if we swap QBs with NE?  38-3?  

 

I had a laugh imagining what our offense would have looked like with New England's game plan. What are we thinking, 30 total yards of offense? That's probably optimistic.

[Milanos Milano]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I had a laugh imagining what our offense would have looked like with New England's game plan. What are we thinking, 30 total yards of offense? That's probably optimistic.

That tells you everything you need to know about how much Allen carries this team. It’s obvious we don’t have enough talent in place outside of Allen. Brown is the only one showing promise on the o-line. We need a total revamp. Bill with Allen and the Pats are probably undefeated and Super Bowl favorites. 

[Success]

40 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

If BB had Allen, we would be talking about 15 years of another Pats dynasty. Even BB can only dream of what he could do with a QB like Allen. He knows and it shows. 

 

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I really loved how BB made a bee-line for Allen yesterday.  He did a quick handshake w/ McD, but spent some time w/ Allen and gave him a half-hug at the end. You could see the respect.  I can't remember him doing that w/ too many QB's, at least while the cameras were on him.  

 

Belichick loves old school football & those kinds of players.  I have to believe he loved not only the way Josh stood tough to make great throws, but on some of the runs, he just put his body on the line and wouldn't be denied.

[mannc]

37 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I really loved how BB made a bee-line for Allen yesterday.  He did a quick handshake w/ McD, but spent some time w/ Allen and gave him a half-hug at the end. You could see the respect.  I can't remember him doing that w/ too many QB's, at least while the cameras were on him.  

 

Belichick loves old school football & those kinds of players.  I have to believe he loved not only the way Josh stood tough to make great throws, but on some of the runs, he just put his body on the line and wouldn't be denied.

I can't even imagine what the Pats (or even the Browns or Indy) would look like if they had Josh Allen.  He's being squandered right now by McBeane.   

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I can't even imagine what the Pats (or even the Browns or Indy) would look like if they had Josh Allen.  He's being squandered right now by McBeane.   

They would be scary good and super bowl favorites. We would be likely witnessing undefeated on a team like the Pats or Indy. I still think we an be scary good, but we aren’t there yet obviously. Another offseason or 2 and I feel like we will be unstoppable for a handful of years. 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Again, I'm not blaming Allen. I've been critical of him but he's probably the only reason this team is 7-5 right and why we were still in the game last night.

 

But at some point you have simply win games and that's what separates true elite franchise QB's from just good ones. Allen is good but not good enough yet anyways.

Please, enough with the passive/aggressive trolling - it's boring.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

We are only just beginning to witness the legend of Josh Allen. Imagine what Allen is going to do in the coming years once he get’s a better supporting cast. Imagine the nasty things Allen is going to do with a better o-line and a rushing attack. My goodness, just thinking about a RB like Jonathan Taylor and a better o-line makes me excited for the future. I honestly can’t wait because I know Allen is going to bring multiple Lombardis here. 

If the QB's were flipped last night how badly would the Bills have been beaten?  40 - 3? Imagine how effective play action passes would have been with Allen cutting through the wind over the top of our 11 in the box defense desperately trying to stop the run.

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Actually it wasn't, 5th year option sure but there was absolutely no reason for Beane to rush pay a guy who had one good season and was somewhat of an historical anomoly making the type of leap he did in year 3. A good GM would have made him prove it again like Mahomes did.

 

But again, not Allen's fault that we have a GM whose's made a series of very bad moves here that wanted to justify his only true good draft pick. But this is actually good news for folks like myself that see through Beane and McDermott because guess who will be the first to go between them and Allen...

Really now.  So after his 5th season you want to franchise Allen until he's an unrestricted free agent then have to pay him over $50,000,000 per year for ten years?  Is that your plan?

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

As far as Jones goes, why throw it last night when you were running it effectively. 

Because they came very close to losing the game.  A couple of play action passes would have likely resulted in huge gains/TD's for the Pats and a comfortable win.  They didn't throw the ball because on the one pass in the first half Jones did throw it was a wounded duck that required a highlight reel catch to gain 12 yards.  The way the Pats were running the ball play action passes would have killed the Bills.

 

 

[Ya Digg?]

9 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Actually it wasn't, 5th year option sure but there was absolutely no reason for Beane to rush pay a guy who had one good season and was somewhat of an historical anomoly making the type of leap he did in year 3. A good GM would have made him prove it again like Mahomes did.

 

But again, not Allen's fault that we have a GM whose's made a series of very bad moves here that wanted to justify his only true good draft pick. But this is actually good news for folks like myself that see through Beane and McDermott because guess who will be the first to go between them and Allen...

Uhhhhh didn’t Mahomes also get his big deal after his third season as well??

[Since1981]

Josh is a good person. A great talent. The best player on that field last night. Only 3 QBs could throw into the West 40 mph and bounce off hands.
 

Give him OL and run help. Once Coach unleashed him…not perfect but he ran out of time.

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

play action passes would have killed the Bills.

19 days.  19 days. 19 days. 
My god, that could get horribly ugly.  

[cle23]

13 hours ago, Success said:

The only QB I think is really "better" is Rogers, and he's getting old - so I don't make that trade.

 

Objectively, there isn't another QB in the league I'd rather have.  He can literally do everything at this point - touch passes, bombs, playing in the wind & bad conditions, running, diagnosing defenses & changing plays at the line.  HIs play is guts personified - he is fearless out there.  Outside of Brady, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a QB who is more driven, competitive and obsessed w/ improving.

 

Compared to Mac Jones?  Please. We'll have the better QB as long as he's in NE, by a mile. Last night showed me that the hype is just that - hype.  I know people will say they didn't have to pass, but they didn't WANT to pass. Jones is a game manager playing under the best coach & in one of the best systems. He'd be average at best anywhere else.

 

 

 

 

To compare, would Buffalo have trusted a rookie Allen to pass in last night's weather?  Jones is a rookie, who doesn't have the arm Allen does.  Not many do.  So it would be stupid to force passes that they didn't need to.  

 

People always want to compare players in the now, when Allen has a 3 year head start in his system, and playing in the NFL.  You can't directly compare the 2 players, especially in the crazy weather.

[Scott7975]

13 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Allen was not the reason this team lost last night but at one point you have to carry a team and will them to victory and for $250M the results have simply not been there especially in close games like last night where multiple opportunities to win presented themself.

 

He cant make Knox catch a football.  He cant make Breida not fumble.  He cant make Moss bounce outside.  He cant make the O line play better.  Allen is the offense.  

12 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Again, I'm not blaming Allen. I've been critical of him but he's probably the only reason this team is 7-5 right and why we were still in the game last night.

 

But at some point you have simply win games and that's what separates true elite franchise QB's from just good ones. Allen is good but not good enough yet anyways.

 

What exactly more could he do to simply win games.  Its a team sport.  Put Kelce or Andrews  on this team last night instead of Knox and the Pats would have gotten smoked.

13 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I do think one valid critique of Allen is that he has to learn to get rid of the ball and avoid sacks.  Other than that he’s great

 

Imagine all the sacks he would take if he didn't avoid sacks.  I agree that sometimes he has to get rid of the ball though.