EDIT Now: Whatever Pats or Bills topics you wanna discuss Was: Bills (-3.5) vs. Patriots on MNF

[Coffeesforclosers]

4 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

So I've been watching ESPN and NFLN all week and I'm curious; does anyone know who the Patriots* are playing on Monday?  All of the coverage is about how awesome the Pats* are and how whoever they are playing is going to struggle on both sides of the ball, but they haven't really said anything about their opponent.  Whoever it is, I feel bad for them because the Patriots* are clearly the best team in the NFL...

 

It's like we suddenly took a time machine back to 2007.

[Solomon Grundy]

Just read article and want to congratulate Mitchell Trubisky and wife on their soon to be new member of Bills Mafia.

[Success]

13 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

So I've been watching ESPN and NFLN all week and I'm curious; does anyone know who the Patriots* are playing on Monday?  All of the coverage is about how awesome the Pats* are and how whoever they are playing is going to struggle on both sides of the ball, but they haven't really said anything about their opponent.  Whoever it is, I feel bad for them because the Patriots* are clearly the best team in the NFL...

 

Once in awhile I see Pats fans say how "entitled" or "arrogant" Bills fans felt about the division after 1 year, and how annoying all of the media hype for the Bills was.

 

I spit out my coffee every time I see that.  I mean, even when we're doing well, it's a Patriots world out there.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I remember that.  It was like dude get over it Allen had a bad game it happens. 

 

The Allen hate by some of these guys is really amazing.  I just don't get it. Allen is personable, talented and not a Richard on the field so what's their beef? It's odd because by his actions and attitude I just don't see what's so polarizing about Allen.

 

I think it's the "confirmation bias" thing.  Analytics guys were very down on Allen coming into the draft because of his low completion percentage and perceived inaccuracy, and his background coming from a small school where he played a low level of competition (but also, surrounded by a low level of talent.  his BEST WR and TE are PS/fringe NFL players)

There are a number of guys who played at a low level and then had 1 good year, then got "solved" and regressed, so I guess it's not too weird that people who had the "confirmation bias" that Allen was no good to start with, are continually trying to fit him into that model.

[dollars 2 donuts]

28 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Da fuq?...

I am hurt that you don't like me back, Ridge, but I can accept that.

 

😄  ✌️  

[Logic]

Before kvetching and hyperventilating about ESPN and NFL Network pre-game coverage, it helps to remember two key points:

1.) The NFL is a television show. The coaches and players are the stars. The fortunes and misfortunes of the teams are the plot. Put simply: Greatest coach of all time Bill Belichick winning six straight games and taking the AFC East lead behind a quarterback that reminds people of the HOF guy he used to have under center (who just won a Super Bowl elsewhere last year) is a juicy plot line featuring a star character. A small market team like Buffalo, with one recent year of major success and an up-and-down roller coaster of a season this year, is not nearly as captivating a storyline for the majority of NFL viewers.

2.) All the talking heads on all the sports networks are fed talking points and, in some cases, scripts or at least outlines of what they should say. 99% of all NFL talking head shows don't feature any real analysis, intelligent breakdowns, or unbiased explication of matchups. The talking heads, too, are characters on the TV show, many with their own outrageous schtick. They'll jump on whatever bandwagon represents the juiciest storyline, the flavor of the week, the soup de jour. It's nothing personal.

Instead of getting sucked into the TV show, I prefer coverage that actually breaks down the game, talks about strengths and weaknesses, and educates the listener/viewer. Things like Greg Cosell, the Cover 1 guys, articles on The Athletic, some of the NFL Radio coverage like Movin the Chains. If you want to watch the mainstream media coverage of football, just remember: they're only going to say a bunch of nice things about your team if said team has been playing in a way that makes them a juicy storyline for the national viewer. The Bills haven't been doing that lately. The Pats have. It's just a TV show.



 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Logic

[Hapless Bills Fan]

28 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

So I've been watching ESPN and NFLN all week and I'm curious; does anyone know who the Patriots* are playing on Monday?  All of the coverage is about how awesome the Pats* are and how whoever they are playing is going to struggle on both sides of the ball, but they haven't really said anything about their opponent.  Whoever it is, I feel bad for them because the Patriots* are clearly the best team in the NFL...

 

Whoever they are, I believe their players are soaking it all in.  Their head coach said in the press conference (when asked if he was pointing out the Pats standing and recent record), something to the effect of "thanks to you guys and to social media I think they're informed on these points"  heh heh

[Success]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Before kvetching and hyperventilating about ESPN and NFL Network pre-game coverage, it helps to remember two key points:

1.) The NFL is a television show. The coaches and players are the stars. The fortunes and misfortunes of the teams are the plot. Put simply: Greatest coach of all time Bill Belichick winning six straight games and taking the AFC East lead behind a quarterback that reminds people of the HOF guy he used to have under center (who just won a Super Bowl elsewhere last year) is a juicy plot line featuring a star character. A small market team like Buffalo, with one recent year of major success and an up-and-down roller coaster of a season this year, is not nearly as captivating a storyline for the majority of NFL viewers.

2.) All the talking heads on all the sports networks are fed talking points and, in some cases, scripts or at least outlines of what they should say. 99% of all NFL talking head shows don't feature any real analysis, intelligent breakdowns, or unbiased explication of matchups. The talking heads, too, are characters on the TV show, many with their own outrageous schtick. They'll jump on whatever bandwagon represents the juiciest storyline, the flavor of the week, the soup de jour. It's nothing personal.

Instead of getting sucked into the TV show, I prefer coverage that actually breaks down the game, talks about strengths and weaknesses, and educates the listener/viewer. Things like Greg Cosell, the Cover 1 guys, articles on The Athletic, some of the NFL Radio coverage like Movin the Chains. If you want to watch the mainstream media coverage of football, just remember: they're only going to say a bunch of nice things about your team if said team has been playing in a way that makes them a juicy storyline for the national viewer. The Bills haven't been doing that lately. The Pats have. It's just a TV show.



 

 

This is all rational & logical. But I like feeling angry about stuff.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Before kvetching and hyperventilating about ESPN and NFL Network pre-game coverage, it helps to remember two key points:

1.) The NFL is a television show. The coaches and players are the stars. The fortunes and misfortunes of the teams are the plot. Put simply: Greatest coach of all time Bill Belichick winning six straight games and taking the AFC East lead behind a quarterback that reminds people of the HOF guy he used to have under center (who just won a Super Bowl elsewhere last year) is a juicy plot line featuring a star character. A small market team like Buffalo, with one recent year of major success and an up-and-down roller coaster of a season this year, is not nearly as captivating a storyline for the majority of NFL viewers.

2.) All the talking heads on all the sports networks are fed talking points and, in some cases, scripts or at least outlines of what they should say. 99% of all NFL talking head shows don't feature any real analysis, intelligent breakdowns, or unbiased explication of matchups. The talking heads, too, are characters on the TV show, many with their own outrageous schtick. They'll jump on whatever bandwagon represents the juiciest storyline, the flavor of the week, the soup de jour. It's nothing personal.

Instead of getting sucked into the TV show, I prefer coverage that actually breaks down the game, talks about strengths and weaknesses, and educates the listener/viewer. Things like Greg Cosell, the Cover 1 guys, articles on The Athletic, some of the NFL Radio coverage like Movin the Chains. If you want to watch the mainstream media coverage of football, just remember: they're only going to say a bunch of nice things about your team if said team has been playing in a way that makes them a juicy storyline for the national viewer. The Bills haven't been doing that lately. The Pats have. It's just a TV show.

 

Your assessment is....Logical 😇

 

The thing is, even some guys who are normally pretty good at game breakdown and strengths and weaknesses (like Chris Simms) are heavily biased pro Pats.  I don't *think* he has a script, but I do think he doesn't necessarily look under the hood too far. 

 

For example, even when they couldn't run the ball (or weren't) last season, Daboll trotted out a run-heavy game plan against the Pats on a windy day with a worse weather forecast, in Orchard Park last year (first game).  We ran for 190 yds that game and only 23 of them were Allens.  We had 38 rush attempts to 18 pass attempts.  Previous game 27 rush, 43 pass attempts.  Next game 19 rush, 38 pass attempts. 

 

And, we just had 32 rush attempts to 28 pass attempts against N'Orleans.  While you couldn't call it a splendidly successful run game, we generated 3.5 ypa, which moves the chains.  Allen was the 2nd leading rusher, however the long rush was 15 yds for Motor - so it was a consistent run game, it wasn't just 1-2 big gains.  New Orleans was ranked as a good defense before the last 2 games and is still 1st against the rush.

 

 

 

[Bleed Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Bradshaw is historically a real Richard Head about Allen and the Bills.  Last year after the Titans game, where Allen admittedly played badly, Bradshaw threw out the previous 4 games, disregarded the injury report and the linebacker brace on the kids arm, and sneered "a 50% passer, that's all he'll ever be".  When he was forced to praise Allen towards the end of the season, he acted as though the words burnt his throat.

It goes way back before Allen. I recall an incident during a season early in the Bills' Super Bowl runs when Bradshaw was in Henrietta, NY at Dick's (the old location) doing a commercial spot for the company. While the crew was adjusting the lighting, he stood around tossing a football up in the air and catching it. Someone in the crowd yelled out "Hey Terry, what do you think of the Bills?" He shook his head, made a face and said "Bills suck."

[Success]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your assessment is....Logical 😇

 

The thing is, even some guys who are normally pretty good at game breakdown and strengths and weaknesses (like Chris Simms) are heavily biased pro Pats.  I don't *think* he has a script, but I do think he doesn't necessarily look under the hood too far. 

 

We thought about starting a drinking game w/ Romo for awhile.  It's rare that he doesn't at least find time to praise Belichick or Brady in games he's covering (not Pats or Bucs games, mind you - any game).

 

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Your assessment is....Logical 😇

 

The thing is, even some guys who are normally pretty good at game breakdown and strengths and weaknesses (like Chris Simms) are heavily biased pro Pats.  I don't *think* he has a script, but I do think he doesn't necessarily look under the hood too far. 

Fair. And don't get me wrong, what little I HAVE seen this week has seemed dramatically pro Pats and anti Bills, but...

If I'm an unbiased fan or media person looking at this game -- if I don't know either team intimately and I'm just going on gut feel based on what each team has shown this season -- I'd lean Pats, too. They've won six straight, have looked mostly lights out on defense, take the ball away a lot, and prior to last year, they owned the Bills for two decades.

Meanwhile, the Bills are 3-3 in their last six with losses to the lowly Jags and a SLAUGHTER at the hands of the Colts, are turning the ball over a bunch, and just lost their best defensive player for the year.

I happen to think there's a good chance the Bills win this game, and there are a lot more variables under the surface than the cliff's notes I just provided above, but...taking a quick glance at this game, I sort of get why everyone is picking the Pats.

I think what's really behind a lot of the angst from Bills fans is that we expected the Pats to be bad for a few years. We expected to own the division for a while. Instead, the Pats appear to be right back to their winning ways, have a quarterback who is legitimately playing well, and it has all of us collectively shaking our heads in astonishment and asking what we have done to anger the football gods.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Logic

[Success]

I know things like the Jags game happen to good teams - but I hope it provides a lesson for these Bills players in the years to come.  I mean, that's a loss that is just looming so large right now; it's impact seems to grow as the season goes on.

 

It's been discussed ad nauseum, but they bought the hype.  That's something good young teams need to learn, imo.  This is still the NFL, and you're not given anything.

 

[Orlando Tim]

I am oddly confident in this game, I know losing Tre is a big loss but I don't think the Pats* are the team with the right talent to exploit that. I think our defense is better and our offense has Josh. I don't expect an easy game by any stretch but I think getting Star and Brown back are huge. BTW the Colts game I saw coming when Star and Edmunds we're out so I am not completely wrong all the time 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

41 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I am hurt that you don't like me back, Ridge, but I can accept that.

 

😄  ✌️  

Like Herb Tarlek, you're a hard worker, loyal husband, and all around fine person.  I am unsure as to how and why I have been dragged into this.

[Mr Info]

13 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 

Sheesh…The very first sentence in Chris Brown’s article is incorrect.

[eball]

43 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think what's really behind a lot of the angst from Bills fans is that we expected the Pats to be bad for a few years. We expected to own the division for a while. Instead, the Pats appear to be right back to their winning ways, have a quarterback who is legitimately playing well, and it has all of us collectively shaking our heads in astonishment and asking what we have done to anger the football gods.

 

First of all, anyone who "expected" the Pats*** to be bad while BB was still coaching is a fool.  But this is a loser attitude.  The Bills have built a deep and talented roster, have a great FO in place, and should be contending for division, conference, and league titles for the foreseeable future.  What in the world do Bills fans have to complain about?  The Pats*** are now trying to keep up with us.

[Rockinon]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

True. The Bills thrive on disrespect. We can't deal with everyone blowing smoke about us, but we know how to respond to disrespect.

They thrive as underdogs. The Bills are about to open up a can of whoopass.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I don't pay much attention to the hype, although I will admit, when I'm walking I usually have my Sirius NFL radio on for an hour. I have of course, seen perhaps 20 minutes total of ESPN and GMFB. And, I have to say that I doubt, I have heard as much pushing of a Pats narrative before. Don't get me wrong it's always there, but something is different this week. And, I don't think this hurts the Bills one bit, as a matter of fact, it helps!😇

 

 

[Process]

Man everyone and their mothers are on the Pats this week. Can't wait for this game. 

[Stank_Nasty]

19 minutes ago, eball said:

 

First of all, anyone who "expected" the Pats*** to be bad while BB was still coaching is a fool.  But this is a loser attitude.  The Bills have built a deep and talented roster, have a great FO in place, and should be contending for division, conference, and league titles for the foreseeable future.  What in the world do Bills fans have to complain about?  The Pats*** are now trying to keep up with us.

Agreed. Aso, I'm so freaking tired of this whole "The Bills fans are uneasy and scared" deal the media and reporters are putting out. They can shove that crap up their ***. Anyone thats watched football for more than 5 minutes knew the Bills were gonna be in for some dog fights over the next couple years. And just because the Pats are back in as contenders doesnt mean they are gonna own the division for a freaking decade. This is all so ridiculous.... Scared? NOT A FREAKING CHANCE. We have a top 5 talent at QB and a talented core group of players. Bring it.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Stank_Nasty

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, Logic said:

I think what's really behind a lot of the angst from Bills fans is that we expected the Pats to be bad for a few years. We expected to own the division for a while. Instead, the Pats appear to be right back to their winning ways, have a quarterback who is legitimately playing well, and it has all of us collectively shaking our heads in astonishment and asking what we have done to anger the football gods.

 

 

It's not "we".   It's you and some others who clearly didn't understand the value of having a winning culture and excellent coaching.   Which made no sense to me because the same people who thought Belichick was done fielding competitive teams were the same people who "trusted the process" in Buffalo.

 

You may be too young to remember the 1990's Bills teams but as talented as they often were.........many of their wins......especially after the first couple of SB seasons.........were in great part just due to supreme confidence in their organization + opponents lack of confidence that they could beat the winning-culture Bills.    That's how you go to the playoffs 10 times in 12 years.    The Patriots have just taken it to a greater level.

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, Success said:

 

The bolded is actually the only truly annoying part for me.  Steve Young said it last week, and I've heard it countless times on various message boards & twitter over the past few weeks - the Bills & other AFC East teams had their "1 year," and now the Pats are back in charge of the division.

 

No. Even if the Pats are good or great - and like you said, with BB they'll always be competitive - the AFC East ain't gonna be the division it was for 20 years.  The Bills are here to stay w/ Allen & McD.  Miami is well run now, and I think even the Jets will turn it around w/ Saleh & Wilson.

 

And we're still a better team than the Pats, and I'd bet pretty good money that Allen will always be at least 1 tier above Mac Jones, if Jones even pans out.  

 

If BB retired after this season - that team would probably hover around .500.

 

Its absurd. it took them having the best qb of all time to get that done. its all of sudden gonna happen again because of a nice rookie they drafted? get real people.

[Patrick Duffy]

56 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

 

 

Well that doesn't sound right...Lol

43 minutes ago, Mr Info said:

Sheesh…The very first sentence in Chris Brown’s article is incorrect.

Lol, yeah really. Wonder what he was thinking when this was written

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Like Stef Diggs said yesterday about his thoughts on looking up to the Pats in the division, it doesn’t matter who is in first place now. It matters who is there at the end. 

Yup, with the return of a few players on OL and DL, I don't see why this team can't get hot and go on their own winning streak. 

[Logic]

23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's not "we".   It's you and some others who clearly didn't understand the value of having a winning culture and excellent coaching.   Which made no sense to me because the same people who thought Belichick was done fielding competitive teams were the same people who "trusted the process" in Buffalo.

 

Wait....so you're telling me that I'm wrong, you're right, and you knew it would be this way all along?

I'm shocked. Shocked I say. 

 

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Some fans expected the Bills to be the Patriots and the Patriots to turn into the Bills…. Just a ridiculous thought. The Patriots had perhaps the best dynasty in  the history of the sport, while the Bills had an epic run of pathetic football. To think the Kraft/Belichick lead Patriots would turn into that is laughable…. I think Bills fans still underestimate to this day how inept the Bills organization was throughout most of the drought. 

I simply can't BELIEVE that you two happened to know better, and now you're here to tell us you were right. Can't believe it.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Logic

[MiltonWaddams]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

Wait....so you're telling me that I'm wrong, you're right, and you knew it would be this way all along?

I'm shocked. Shocked I say. 

 

I simply can't BELIEVE that you two happened to know better, and now you're here to tell us you were right. Can't believe it.

I’m not sure how you could possibly disagree with two of the most positive humans ever to grace the pages of Two Bills Drive. 

[nucci]

26 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Suit up, Mount Up and SHOW UP!

 

Bills Mafia and the Bills Players will be ready.  Should be a great game and come down to which team wants it more.  I like the Bills at home as believe the team reacts to being dissed and will play with a sense of urgency as this is biggest leverage point in determining who takes AFC East.

 

GO BILLS!

 

 

I doubt one team wants to win more than the other

[Calidiehard]

I love the takes on this game from the national media and fans. Its about the vaunted run game and defense of the Patriots and how they will stop the Bills offense. Just to put things in perspective, the Patriots have a whopping 83 more yards on the ground than us in 1 extra game played. The 2 games we gave up big yardage on the ground were against the Indy #3 without Star or Edmonds & Titans #4 in rushing, Pats are rated 9. People act like we aren't rated either 1 or 2 in many defensive categories either.  

As long as we don't turn the ball over, I don't really see how the Pats can win this game. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Man everyone and their mothers are on the Pats this week. Can't wait for this game. 

 

Yet all the football fans I know (with the exception of Massholes) want the Bills to win.

[Success]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yet all the football fans I know (with the exception of Massholes) want the Bills to win.

 

It's kind of cool to have an entire country pulling for your team in a game.  I suppose it's better to be hated, because that generally means you win a lot - but it's still cool to have the planet on our side.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's not "we".   It's you and some others who clearly didn't understand the value of having a winning culture and excellent coaching.   Which made no sense to me because the same people who thought Belichick was done fielding competitive teams were the same people who "trusted the process" in Buffalo.

 

 

Not all the same people. But yea, there were folks here who just said "Brady has gone it's over!" Because they had a down year with Cam playing terribly and 8 covid opt outs.

[Success]

I knew they'd still be competitive w/ BB, and will be as long as he's there.  But the fear factor is gone without Brady.  They're just a good, really well-coached team now.

 

Brady was the magician.  How many times did we have 4th quarter leads only to see him turn it on when he needed to? Threading needles, throwing 50-yard dimes in the last few minutes - always engineering the drive they HAD to have, at the time they had to have it.

 

That wasn't Belichick. It was always the combo that made that team so formidable. I have no doubt that BB will put together some contending years w/ Mac Jones as long as he's there, but they're just another team now.

 

[Sugar High JA17]

Chilly Damp Night for the battle of AFCE. Lets end this game early !

[Casey D]

BB is 63-75 without Brady, including 1-1 in the playoffs.  This stuff about the next 10 years of Pats dominance while BB turns 80 is silly.  Let's see how this season finishes first before BB and Mac are anointed the chosen ones.  For now it is just a media meme. 

[TheBrownBear]

41 minutes ago, Success said:

Brady was the magician.  How many times did we have 4th quarter leads only to see him turn it on when he needed to? Threading needles, throwing 50-yard dimes in the last few minutes - always engineering the drive they HAD to have, at the time they had to have it.

 

That wasn't Belichick. It was always the combo that made that team so formidable. I have no doubt that BB will put together some contending years w/ Mac Jones as long as he's there, but they're just another team now.

 

I think your memory may be failing you.  Outside of the 2009 McFumbles game, Brady didn't have many (if any) fourth quarter comebacks against us.  They were total team methodical destructions with a few ugly defensive struggles thrown in.  Two out of three games against the Brady Pats were thorough ass-kickings from start to finish.  And besides the undefeated Randy Moss season, the Pats almost always beat our brains in with the running game and short passing/screen game.  It wasn't Brady "dropping dimes" all over the field.  It was the exact kind of offensive approach we are seeing from Mac Jones.

 

The "fear factor" is gone because for the first time in 20 years, we have a team that's as good as or better than the Patriots.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is the biggest December division game in the AFC East since when? Probably the Rex Ryan Jets vs NE. That's a long time. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[atlbillsfan1975]

4 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Yea lets act like an adult. Nothing I just said should offend anyone and if it did, then that speaks more about you than me and my fandom. Thanks!

We don’t need you to educate us on anything Pats. We can get that from credible sources. So honestly the only thing your presence here does is annoy Bills fans. I bet if the Bills win and win big, we won’t see much of you for awhile. And if the Pats win you will get yourself banned pretty quick.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Dugger on the Covid list.  AWESOME!!  Belichick seen at an ATM withdrawing money to pay a medical lab to juice two Dugger Covid tests negative so he can play Monday night.....

Edited December 3, 2021 by Freddie's Dead