THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Huge Loss

[Shaw66]

 

The Colts crushed the Bills, 41-15, on Sunday afternoon. 

 

Coming into the game, the persistent question was “just how good are the 2021 Bills?”

 

Now, we have the answer:  Not very good.

 

November is when good teams emerge in the NFL.  The Bills haven’t emerged, and time is running out.  Fast. 

 

There’s not much to say, so I’ll state the obvious.

 

The Bills have a one-dimensional offense that can’t score against any decent NFL defense, like the Jacksonville Jaguars.  The formula is simple:  Give the Bills nothing deep, rush Allen, ignore the play fake.   Play the receivers tight.

 

Wait.  That’s the formula to stop everyone.  It’s easier said than done.  Well, yes, except against the Bills, it IS easily done.  Why?

 

1.  The Bills can’t run the ball, so the linebackers and defensive backs can ignore the play fake.

 

2.  The Bills can’t pass block, so rushing Allen is easy. 

 

3.  Secure in the knowledge that Allen will have to throw quickly, the defensive backs can clamp down on the short routes, making every throw a tough throw. 

 

It’s hard not to conclude that the offensive line is a problem.  The line creates few easy yards for the running backs, and the line consistently allows quick pressure in Allen’s face.  Remarkably, the Bills really miss rookie Spencer Brown.  Not that Brown has been an All-Star, but he’s been pretty consistent.  Brown’s absence and the season-ending injury to Feliciano have forced the Bills to put Cody Ford on the field, a player who’s had multiple opportunities to produce and simply can’t. 

 

Ford isn’t the only problem.  Mitch Morse seems to be good for a holding penalty flag almost every week.  He holds because he can’t neutralize good power rushers. 

 

Someone’s probably playing well on the line, but I don’t know who it is. 

 

The defensive line presents exactly the opposite problem.   It can’t stop good running teams, and it can’t pressure the quarterback consistently.  Lotulelei out of the lineup made a difference.

 

On both sides, the primary problem is that these players are finesse players, not power players.   The offensive line can’t move the defense off the line of scrimmage, and the defensive line can’t hold the line of scrimmage.  Under those circumstances, the opposing defense can ignore the Bills run game and the play fake, and the opposing offense can run at will forcing the linebackers to play the run and the run fake.   

 

Until the line play changes, it’s hard to imagine that the results will change.

 

Of course, the game got away from the Bills on one play:  After the Colts went up 17-7 late in the first half, the script was clear:  Allen takes the Bills on a scoring drive to close the half 17-10 or 17-14, and then the Bills take the second half kickoff and take over the game.  Instead, Isaiah McKenzie gave the ball away on the kickoff, the Colts make it 24-7, the Bills go three and out to open the second half, and the game was over.

 

Several Bills made critical mistakes, and the lack of discipline and execution was surprising for a McDermott team, but McKenzie’s play – one play – should earn him a ticket out of town before next September.  Harsh?  Not at all.  McKenzie has 5 receptions for 26 yards and 5 rushes for 27 yards.  His primary job, practically his only job, is to return kicks, and ball security is rule number one for kick returners.    

 

In fact, ball security may be the ONLY rule for a kick returner.  Some might say the fumble is worth the risk, because once in a while there’ll be a big return.  Well, no.  There have been over 600 kickoffs returned this season, four for touchdowns.  That’s less than 1% out of kicks returned, and that doesn’t include all kickoffs for touchbacks.  How about punts?  Over 500 punts returned, ZERO TDs, and that doesn’t include the fair catches, punts downed, or punts out of bounds.  These days, kick returning is pretty much all risk and no reward.  Given that reality, McKenzie’s play was unforgiveable. 

 

The Bills now face a big-time gut check:  Go to New Orleans and win on four days’ rest, then come home beat a Patriots team that unlike the Bills, is getting great line play on both sides of the ball.    

 

GO BILLS!

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

The Colts crushed the Bills, 41-15, on Sunday afternoon. 

 

Coming into the game, the persistent question was “just how good are the 2021 Bills?”

 

Now, we have the answer:  Not very good.

 

November is when good teams emerge in the NFL.  The Bills haven’t emerged, and time is running out.  Fast. 

 

There’s not much to say, so I’ll state the obvious.

 

The Bills have a one-dimensional offense that can’t score against any decent NFL defense, like the Jacksonville Jaguars.  The formula is simple:  Give the Bills nothing deep, rush Allen, ignore the play fake.   Play the receivers tight.

 

Wait.  That’s the formula to stop everyone.  It’s easier said than done.  Well, yes, except against the Bills, it IS easily done.  Why?

 

1.  The Bills can’t run the ball, so the linebackers and defensive backs can ignore the play fake.

 

2.  The Bills can’t pass block, so rushing Allen is easy. 

 

3.  Secure in the knowledge that Allen will have to throw quickly, the defensive backs can clamp down on the short routes, making every throw a tough throw. 

 

It’s hard not to conclude that the offensive line is a problem.  The line creates few easy yards for the running backs, and the line consistently allows quick pressure in Allen’s face.  Remarkably, the Bills really miss rookie Spencer Brown.  Not that Brown has been an All-Star, but he’s been pretty consistent.  Brown’s absence and the season-ending injury to Feliciano have forced the Bills to put Cody Ford on the field, a player who’s had multiple opportunities to produce and simply can’t. 

 

Ford isn’t the only problem.  Mitch Morse seems to be good for a holding penalty flag almost every week.  He holds because he can’t neutralize good power rushers. 

 

Someone’s probably playing well on the line, but I don’t know who it is. 

 

The defensive line presents exactly the opposite problem.   It can’t stop good running teams, and it can’t pressure the quarterback consistently.  Lotulelei out of the lineup made a difference.

 

On both sides, the primary problem is that these players are finesse players, not power players.   The offensive line can’t move the defense off the line of scrimmage, and the defensive line can’t hold the line of scrimmage.  Under those circumstances, the opposing defense can ignore the Bills run game and the play fake, and the opposing offense can run at will forcing the linebackers to play the run and the run fake.   

 

Until the line play changes, it’s hard to imagine that the results will change.

 

Of course, the game got away from the Bills on one play:  After the Colts went up 17-7 late in the first half, the script was clear:  Allen takes the Bills on a scoring drive to close the half 17-10 or 17-14, and then the Bills take the second half kickoff and take over the game.  Instead, Isaiah McKenzie gave the ball away on the kickoff, the Colts make it 24-7, the Bills go three and out to open the second half, and the game was over.

 

Several Bills made critical mistakes, and the lack of discipline and execution was surprising for a McDermott team, but McKenzie’s play – one play – should earn him a ticket out of town before next September.  Harsh?  Not at all.  McKenzie has 5 receptions for 26 yards and 5 rushes for 27 yards.  His primary job, practically his only job, is to return kicks, and ball security is rule number one for kick returners.    

 

In fact, ball security may be the ONLY rule for a kick returner.  Some might say the fumble is worth the risk, because once in a while there’ll be a big return.  Well, no.  There have been over 600 kickoffs returned this season, four for touchdowns.  That’s less than 1% out of kicks returned, and that doesn’t include all kickoffs for touchbacks.  How about punts?  Over 500 punts returned, ZERO TDs, and that doesn’t include the fair catches, punts downed, or punts out of bounds.  These days, kick returning is pretty much all risk and no reward.  Given that reality, McKenzie’s play was unforgiveable. 

 

The Bills now face a big-time gut check:  Go to New Orleans and win on four days’ rest, then come home beat a Patriots team that unlike the Bills, is getting great line play on both sides of the ball.    

 

GO BILLS!

 

I might get flamed for this, but I think Daboll has warmed out his welcome.  I'm tired of not being able to run. Maybe I'm spoiled because of all the Travis Henry's, Lesean McCoy's, and Fred Jackson's of the past, but they simple cannot keep putting it all on Allen EVERY game. Look how much he has regressed this year. He's getting absolutely pummeled and the play calling is not helping. 

 

Bills need to start looking for OCs that can get the job done. Imagine what a guy like Greg Roman could do If you gave him a guy like Josh Allen to work with. Passing 75% of the time with a crap offensive line is going to destroy and send him into an early retirement. 

 

The good thing is we've found our QB. With the right moves in the off-season, we can right this ship. Go hard in the draft and free agency for big maulers, hire a  coordinator w/ a proven system. This offense could be soon much better than it is. I refuse to settle for less.

 

Daboll has got to go. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[LABILLBACKER]

Its funny how just a month ago half this board wanted Josh to throw on every down. Without a good run game Josh will continue to struggle as the NFL has figured us out. There's no cavalry of new olineman to swoop in and save the day. Spencer will help but its only a temporary bandaid.  We will only go as far as the OL allows us. Besiides Daboll is not a "run strong" OC. Looks like we're not going very far. 

[97bills]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

The Colts crushed the Bills, 41-15, on Sunday afternoon. 

 

Coming into the game, the persistent question was “just how good are the 2021 Bills?”

 

Now, we have the answer:  Not very good.

 

November is when good teams emerge in the NFL.  The Bills haven’t emerged, and time is running out.  Fast. 

 

There’s not much to say, so I’ll state the obvious.

 

The Bills have a one-dimensional offense that can’t score against any decent NFL defense, like the Jacksonville Jaguars.  The formula is simple:  Give the Bills nothing deep, rush Allen, ignore the play fake.   Play the receivers tight.

 

Wait.  That’s the formula to stop everyone.  It’s easier said than done.  Well, yes, except against the Bills, it IS easily done.  Why?

 

1.  The Bills can’t run the ball, so the linebackers and defensive backs can ignore the play fake.

 

2.  The Bills can’t pass block, so rushing Allen is easy. 

 

3.  Secure in the knowledge that Allen will have to throw quickly, the defensive backs can clamp down on the short routes, making every throw a tough throw. 

 

It’s hard not to conclude that the offensive line is a problem.  The line creates few easy yards for the running backs, and the line consistently allows quick pressure in Allen’s face.  Remarkably, the Bills really miss rookie Spencer Brown.  Not that Brown has been an All-Star, but he’s been pretty consistent.  Brown’s absence and the season-ending injury to Feliciano have forced the Bills to put Cody Ford on the field, a player who’s had multiple opportunities to produce and simply can’t. 

 

Ford isn’t the only problem.  Mitch Morse seems to be good for a holding penalty flag almost every week.  He holds because he can’t neutralize good power rushers. 

 

Someone’s probably playing well on the line, but I don’t know who it is. 

 

The defensive line presents exactly the opposite problem.   It can’t stop good running teams, and it can’t pressure the quarterback consistently.  Lotulelei out of the lineup made a difference.

 

On both sides, the primary problem is that these players are finesse players, not power players.   The offensive line can’t move the defense off the line of scrimmage, and the defensive line can’t hold the line of scrimmage.  Under those circumstances, the opposing defense can ignore the Bills run game and the play fake, and the opposing offense can run at will forcing the linebackers to play the run and the run fake.   

 

Until the line play changes, it’s hard to imagine that the results will change.

 

Of course, the game got away from the Bills on one play:  After the Colts went up 17-7 late in the first half, the script was clear:  Allen takes the Bills on a scoring drive to close the half 17-10 or 17-14, and then the Bills take the second half kickoff and take over the game.  Instead, Isaiah McKenzie gave the ball away on the kickoff, the Colts make it 24-7, the Bills go three and out to open the second half, and the game was over.

 

Several Bills made critical mistakes, and the lack of discipline and execution was surprising for a McDermott team, but McKenzie’s play – one play – should earn him a ticket out of town before next September.  Harsh?  Not at all.  McKenzie has 5 receptions for 26 yards and 5 rushes for 27 yards.  His primary job, practically his only job, is to return kicks, and ball security is rule number one for kick returners.    

 

In fact, ball security may be the ONLY rule for a kick returner.  Some might say the fumble is worth the risk, because once in a while there’ll be a big return.  Well, no.  There have been over 600 kickoffs returned this season, four for touchdowns.  That’s less than 1% out of kicks returned, and that doesn’t include all kickoffs for touchbacks.  How about punts?  Over 500 punts returned, ZERO TDs, and that doesn’t include the fair catches, punts downed, or punts out of bounds.  These days, kick returning is pretty much all risk and no reward.  Given that reality, McKenzie’s play was unforgiveable. 

 

The Bills now face a big-time gut check:  Go to New Orleans and win on four days’ rest, then come home beat a Patriots team that unlike the Bills, is getting great line play on both sides of the ball.    

 

GO BILLS!

Good write up, and I agree every time Allen does that fake hand off in shotgun I laugh. No one is worried about the run, this team just isn’t that good and want get any better till next year. All we can do is enjoy the season the best way we can. And don’t be surprised if NE wins the division, and no one to blame but coach for that one!!! They all saw the oline and Dline problems last year just like we did, not to mention the running game 

[BubbaT]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

and the season-ending injury to Feliciano

I don't disagree with what you've said but Feliciano's injury is not season ending. He's eligible to come off IR this week.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Its funny how just a month ago half this board wanted Josh to throw on every down. Without a good run game Josh will continue to struggle as the NFL has figured us out. There's no cavalry of new olineman to swoop in and save the day. Spencer will help but its only a temporary bandaid.  We will only go as far as the OL allows us. Besiides Daboll is not a "run strong" OC. Looks like we're not going very far. 

 

I don't remember anyone wanting that. Maybe a couple of the random nut jobs we get here, but who the heck doesn't want the Bills to run it? 

 

Everyone saw Tampa Bay last year and how much Brady benefitted from running it. Fournette should've been the Super Bowl MVP last year. 

 

 

[Ross Murdock]

I would stop wasting time talking about the impact that Brown and Star are having by not being available, because it seems that actually playing football for the Bills, and helping their teammates is a secondary concern to them. As McDermott keeps stating -"I can only worry about the players that are playing". That says it all. It's really their choice not to play. I hope next year it's someplace else.    

[HappyDays]

The Bills CAN run, Daboll just refuses to try. Breida is an explosive runner. McKenzie is explosive on jet sweeps. Singletary is limited but has shown some shiftiness in open space in recent weeks. But Daboll seemingly only calls run plays to fill his minimum quota for the week. Breida broke open a drive for us yesterday when we desperately needed one. Daboll then put Moss on the field and the drive predictably stalled out. The Bills lacked speed on their offense last year. They added a RB with elite speed and have inexplicably refused to use him.

 

I don't think Daboll truly believes in running the ball. He thinks we can live and die on the same old 20 yard pass plays, and if the o-line doesn't hold up long enough for the routes to develop it's not his fault. Forget running the ball, we'll keep using the same crossing routes and deep hitches. An occasional half hearted screen to fill that quota. Run Beasley and his bruised ribs into heavy traffic and ask him to make tough catches. That stuff worked so well last year, right? Daboll needs to learn - it's crazy that he doesn't already know this - that every season is a new team. He thought he'd just roll back the same offense with no changes and surely it would work. I guess he forgot that there are coaches on the other sideline that have access to last year's tape.

[Bray Wyatt]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

The Bills CAN run, Daboll just refuses to try. Breida is an explosive runner. McKenzie is explosive on jet sweeps. Singletary is limited but has shown some shiftiness in open space in recent weeks. But Daboll seemingly only calls run plays to fill his minimum quota for the week. Breida broke open a drive for us yesterday when we desperately needed one. Daboll then put Moss on the field and the drive predictably stalled out. The Bills lacked speed on their offense last year. They added a RB with elite speed and have inexplicably refused to use him.

 

I don't think Daboll truly believes in running the ball. He thinks we can live and die on the same old 20 yard pass plays, and if the o-line doesn't hold up long enough for the routes to develop it's not his fault. Forget running the ball, we'll keep using the same crossing routes and deep hitches. An occasional half hearted screen to fill that quota. Run Beasley and his bruised ribs into heavy traffic and ask him to make tough catches. That stuff worked so well last year, right? Daboll needs to learn - it's crazy that he doesn't already know this - that every season is a new team. He thought he'd just roll back the same offense with no changes and surely it would work. I guess he forgot that there are coaches on the other sideline that have access to last year's tape.

I am beginning to think Daboll is an issue, he has only ever really had one good year at oc in his career, last year. How much of that was due to Allen breaking out and teams taking awhile to catch up to that?

 

He may have helped Allen a bunch to get to where he is, but we may need a new guy to get him to the top tier.

[Ross Murdock]

Basically, if you can't run the football effectively at all, or stop other teams from doing it, your just not playing football. It hasn't really changed much since the early 19th Century.  At this point, I'm not sure the Bills understand the basics of the game they are playing. Vince Lombardi wrote a great book about it back in 1966. It's still available. Maybe the Bills should read it. Hopefully by the start of the 2022 season, they'll understand the game their playing, and have the sorts of players that can execute the basics. Thy don't now. Big men beat up little men.  

[Billever76]

40 minutes ago, BubbaT said:

I don't disagree with what you've said but Feliciano's injury is not season ending. He's eligible to come off IR this week.

Get feliciano and brown back as well as star and edmunds and this team can turn things around

[Bferra13]

39 minutes ago, Billever76 said:

Get feliciano and brown back as well as star and edmunds and this team can turn things around

Feliciano kinda blows though. Unless he hid an earlier nagging injury. He was a liability when healthy earlier this year.

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

Feliciano kinda blows though. Unless he hid an earlier nagging injury. He was a liability when healthy earlier this year.

I remember Feliciano getting punked by Chris Jones over and over in the AFCCG last season, and that was when he was healthy.  As far as I'm concerned, we need a LT (maybe move Spencer Brown), move Dawkins to LG, a new C, RG, and RT. 

[Aussie Joe]

Gut check.

 

Its an interesting term to use … I googled the meaning…

 

An evaluation or test of a persons resolve, commitment or priorities…

 

Pretty apt…. 
 

The Bills are heading to the Last Chance Saloon for Season 2021-22…

 

This game and the next will tell us all we need to know about a season that 6 weeks ago promised so much…

 

The disappointment will be immense if they fail…

 

We will be the ones facing the gut check then…

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Aussie Joe

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said:

I am beginning to think Daboll is an issue, he has only ever really had one good year at oc in his career, last year. How much of that was due to Allen breaking out and teams taking awhile to catch up to that?

 

He may have helped Allen a bunch to get to where he is, but we may need a new guy to get him to the top tier.

 

I would like to ask Daboll "what do you believe this offense does best?" I'm not sure he knows the answer. Last year the answer was emphatically "Allen throwing the ball to WRs" and that made it easy to call plays. This year that identity isn't working. And I think because Daboll doesn't know what our identity should be, he is floundering. He is calling plays and changing personnel haphazardly with no attempt to build rhythm. It's like he is pulling play calls out of a hat. Regardless of how our line is holding up or what the opposing defense is doing, the play that gets drawn simply must be called.

 

The offense has been out of sync most of the year, and I can't solely blame the o-line or any player for all of the issues. Daboll's job is to create an identity for the offense and design a weekly game plan around that identity. Yet every week the game plan is the same - Allen drops back and waits 5 seconds for long developing routes to break open so that he can throw a lower percentage pass; occasionally slam Singletary or Moss into the backs of their own linemen; hard counts that confuse our own players more than the opponent. Concepts that seemingly always work when we call them this year, like jet sweeps and Breida outside runs, are called rarely. Concepts that never work, like Moss runs inside the red zone, are called ad nauseum. Maybe Daboll needs to adjust the quantity of certain play calls in his hat.

 

It feels weird complaining about the offense after a game that was mostly lost by the defense. But I am actually quite confident the defense will get back to its elite form once Star and Edmunds are back. It's hard to beat an elite rush offense when the core middle of your front 7 is taken off the board. Our run defense sucked without Star last year and it still sucks without him this year. I don't see any real cause for concern there. The offense on the other hand showed the same issues that have plagued them all year and I'm losing faith that Daboll is capable of making the necessary adjustments. I thought he had finally figured it out with some of the different looks we saw in the Jets game... but I guess that was just a lucky week where the right plays got pulled out of the hat.

Edited November 23, 2021 by HappyDays

[billsbackto81]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

On both sides, the primary problem is that these players are finesse players, not power players.  

 

 

Where did I read this before? Oh I remember now! 

Posted this last Friday and got flamed a little.

 

billsbackto81

Posted Friday at 05:31 PM

I've pretty much gone through these last 2 seasons under the impression that this Defense is more finesse than physical. Playing an "opportunistic" style that hopes and succeeds in creating turnovers. Whether it's mentality or scheme to me is unknown.....

 

Glad somebody else sees it. Gotta work on my rep points I guess.

Anyway I'm billsbackto81 and I approve this message😋

Edited November 23, 2021 by billsbackto81

[DrPJax]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

The Colts crushed the Bills, 41-15, on Sunday afternoon. 

 

Coming into the game, the persistent question was “just how good are the 2021 Bills?”

 

Now, we have the answer:  Not very good.

 

November is when good teams emerge in the NFL.  The Bills haven’t emerged, and time is running out.  Fast. 

 

There’s not much to say, so I’ll state the obvious.

 

The Bills have a one-dimensional offense that can’t score against any decent NFL defense, like the Jacksonville Jaguars.  The formula is simple:  Give the Bills nothing deep, rush Allen, ignore the play fake.   Play the receivers tight.

 

Wait.  That’s the formula to stop everyone.  It’s easier said than done.  Well, yes, except against the Bills, it IS easily done.  Why?

 

1.  The Bills can’t run the ball, so the linebackers and defensive backs can ignore the play fake.

 

2.  The Bills can’t pass block, so rushing Allen is easy. 

 

3.  Secure in the knowledge that Allen will have to throw quickly, the defensive backs can clamp down on the short routes, making every throw a tough throw. 

 

It’s hard not to conclude that the offensive line is a problem.  The line creates few easy yards for the running backs, and the line consistently allows quick pressure in Allen’s face.  Remarkably, the Bills really miss rookie Spencer Brown.  Not that Brown has been an All-Star, but he’s been pretty consistent.  Brown’s absence and the season-ending injury to Feliciano have forced the Bills to put Cody Ford on the field, a player who’s had multiple opportunities to produce and simply can’t. 

 

Ford isn’t the only problem.  Mitch Morse seems to be good for a holding penalty flag almost every week.  He holds because he can’t neutralize good power rushers. 

 

Someone’s probably playing well on the line, but I don’t know who it is. 

 

The defensive line presents exactly the opposite problem.   It can’t stop good running teams, and it can’t pressure the quarterback consistently.  Lotulelei out of the lineup made a difference.

 

On both sides, the primary problem is that these players are finesse players, not power players.   The offensive line can’t move the defense off the line of scrimmage, and the defensive line can’t hold the line of scrimmage.  Under those circumstances, the opposing defense can ignore the Bills run game and the play fake, and the opposing offense can run at will forcing the linebackers to play the run and the run fake.   

 

Until the line play changes, it’s hard to imagine that the results will change.

 

Of course, the game got away from the Bills on one play:  After the Colts went up 17-7 late in the first half, the script was clear:  Allen takes the Bills on a scoring drive to close the half 17-10 or 17-14, and then the Bills take the second half kickoff and take over the game.  Instead, Isaiah McKenzie gave the ball away on the kickoff, the Colts make it 24-7, the Bills go three and out to open the second half, and the game was over.

 

Several Bills made critical mistakes, and the lack of discipline and execution was surprising for a McDermott team, but McKenzie’s play – one play – should earn him a ticket out of town before next September.  Harsh?  Not at all.  McKenzie has 5 receptions for 26 yards and 5 rushes for 27 yards.  His primary job, practically his only job, is to return kicks, and ball security is rule number one for kick returners.    

 

In fact, ball security may be the ONLY rule for a kick returner.  Some might say the fumble is worth the risk, because once in a while there’ll be a big return.  Well, no.  There have been over 600 kickoffs returned this season, four for touchdowns.  That’s less than 1% out of kicks returned, and that doesn’t include all kickoffs for touchbacks.  How about punts?  Over 500 punts returned, ZERO TDs, and that doesn’t include the fair catches, punts downed, or punts out of bounds.  These days, kick returning is pretty much all risk and no reward.  Given that reality, McKenzie’s play was unforgiveable. 

 

The Bills now face a big-time gut check:  Go to New Orleans and win on four days’ rest, then come home beat a Patriots team that unlike the Bills, is getting great line play on both sides of the ball.    

 

GO BILLS!

I do agree about mckenzie, both in what that fumble meant ( and all year I have expected a bone headed play from him based on his uncertainty in fielding kicks/punts) and long term regarding the special teams.   How often have we been pushed further back after a blocking in the back flag!?   I would bet over 50% of the time  we get flagged.  If I’m coaching, I never let them take a ball out of the ENDZONE.   We just put the offense in a position where Daboll gets even more conservative and we.make drives harder. Also given Dabolls lack of using mckenzie for jet rushes, why waste the roster spot?
 

Worst roster management I have seen perhaps ever. Who else has lost TWO draft picks to teams poaching players off their practice squads?  After that fumble , the game was sealed!   I would get rid of him , Ford, bring up the 7 th eound rookie ( Stevenson?) and i am looking to poach an Ol from some other squad ( not hart,,,,omg, we and the titans cut him so Bean brings him back, can’t be real!  Maybe being punked).  If nothing else , it sends a message , put the ball on the ground , dont keep focus , keep screwing with tic tok and stupid handshakes when your JOB IS PLAYOFF CALIBER FOOTBALL , and you’re not needed here.   There are lots of guys who can fill the bottom of the roster role.  

This team is undisciplined and playing unwatchable ,LOSING football that customers pay hard earned money to follow. They are focusing / playing like they have forgotten it is an honor to be on a NFL team and have people want to watch you.  They have fallen into the trap of thinking they will just flip the switch when they want to.    This team will be lucky to dig itself out of this hole and it wouldn’t surprise me if they add another embarrassing  chapter to their history and lose the afc east title back to the Pats after holding it for only one year!   Mcd, tho , will want the press to focus on mckenzie back story so the fumble will hardly be mentioned. This mess is on Beane and Mcd , and sadly it’s looking like another wasted year and I hope all the smug people who were talking about a “bye” month will op their eyes and minds and at least listen to rational critiques of the teams play even when they barely eek out wins because quality of a win is actually a measurement of future success.   Not all W’s or L’s are equal.  

[bmur66]

And there you have it. Good synopsis Shaw66.

[davefan66]

The offensive line is the reason the offense is stuck.  As mentioned by the OP, no run game = no ability to play action.  No pass protection and forget about any meaningful passing attack.

 

Lost a couple DT’s and our starting middle linebacker = unable to stop the run - not that we were doing a great job before we lost these players.  Need better depth in the middle of the line.  More beef.

 

I wonder if the team knows they are in trouble?  Once they were down by a couple TD’s it felt like they were trying people, but not trying.  Yeah, they looked like they continued to play but I didn’t feel they truly thought they could even up the game.  Seemed like the fans felt it also, definitely was the least participative crowd I’ve seen in years.

Edited November 23, 2021 by davefan66

[Thurman#1]

Nobody's ignoring the play fake. Which is part of the reason we didn't run all that well. They're reacting to it. But they are then covering well deep, and without Spencer Brown, which then puts Williams back at a position he's just not playing well at this year, and without Feliciano, this OL just isn't getting it done.

 

When Brown and Feliciano get back, look for quite a bit of improvement. That's how it's worked so far this year.

 

I noticed you said Feliciano is out for the year. Is that right? Did I miss something? I thought he was out for three weeks. I know this very recent Buffalo News story (42 minutes old as I write this) has him eligible to return now, and coming back.

 

 

---------------

“'I feel really good. If it wasn’t a short week, I think there would be a good chance that I would be able to get in,' he said Monday. 'But also, we’ll see how it goes. Not counting anything out.'

 

"Coach Sean McDermott said Monday the team is 'just going to wait and see, and see how it goes the next day or two here' before making a decision.

Feliciano did not practice Monday, and with the short week, it is unlikely he’ll be back for Thursday’s game against the Saints. During his stretch on injured reserve, he’s had a different vantage point of his position group."

---------------

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-guard-jon-feliciano-gives-back-for-thanksgiving-while-still-on-injured-reserve/article_28afd9d4-4c03-11ec-aac6-cf1954d50b7e.html

 

Feliciano's not terrific, but the starting five have played much better than when replacements have to step in.

 

And while I agree with you on how awful and how gigantic the McKenzie play was in this game, I think you pushed the argument a bit when you list only 4 TDs as positive difference-makers. Returns that go beyond about the 40 yard line make a major difference in likelihood of scoring and momentum change. And there have been a lot more than 4 excellent long returns this year in the NFL. Agree, though, that that play was inexcusable, just awful. As dangerous as he is, this has to make them think about how they are using McKenzie.

 

Good post, on an awful game.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

 

1.  The Bills can’t run the ball, so the linebackers and defensive backs can ignore the play fake.

 

 

There is a difference between can't and won't.

 

When the Bills decide to actually use their running backs, they do gain yards.

 

Devin Singletary is averaging 5 yards per attempt ... just like he's done since his rookie year.  

 

He's getting 8 rushing attempts per game.

 

We can run the ball.

 

We simply choose not to.  And THAT is why we're so easy to stop.

 

 

[TheCockSportif]

Good synopsis as always, @Shaw66.  Was wondering if you were going to take the week off after that debacle.

[oldmanfan]

Shaw nails it as always.  I posted a couple days ago that we are a soft team.  And that starts on the lines.  We have guys that get physically beat time after time.

[CSBill]

32 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

There is a difference between can't and won't.

 

When the Bills decide to actually use their running backs, they do gain yards.

 

Devin Singletary is averaging 5 yards per attempt ... just like he's done since his rookie year.  

 

He's getting 8 rushing attempts per game.

 

We can run the ball.

 

We simply choose not to.  And THAT is why we're so easy to stop.

 

 

 

I agree with this point, Gugny.

 

We have watched two games this year where there was a real commitment to the run, the first Miami game and the Jets game two weeks ago (and not coincidentally, both after tough losses)--and yes, neither team is that great, but they both have respectable D-lines. In both games, with that  commitment to the run, the Bills were effective. Actually, very effective. It is possible, but the commitment has to be there.

 

And if you've watched the last few NO games, it seems teams that want to run the ball against them have been able to do that.

 

Coming off another bad loss, a team that can be run upon, and in a "must win" situation, if the Bills don't commit to it this week, then when?

[bmur66]

7 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Gut check.

 

Its an interesting term to use … I googled the meaning…

 

An evaluation or test of a persons resolve, commitment or priorities…

 

Pretty apt…. 
 

The Bills are heading to the Last Chance Saloon for Season 2021-22…

 

This game and the next will tell us all we need to know about a season that 6 weeks ago promised so much…

 

The disappointment will be immense if they fail…

 

We will be the ones facing the gut check then…

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was calling the Colts game a "gut check". It was predictable. How they performed in the 4th quarter said it all.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

Josh decision making has been bad, I’m not sure what he’s thinking on some of his throws, maybe it’s arm arrogance in thinking he can the fit the ball in there. Maybe eat the sack I don’t know or try to get out of the pocket and throw the ball away. But Daboll is doing a piss poor job and I’m ready to move on. 

Go back and look at his second Int in the third quarter, the ball that was tipped. 

We have seven  guys trying to offer I guess as max protection as it can be. Knox, the back and five lineman. It’s still a cluster mess. (Insert swear word) Three Wr set. 

 

My problem with Daboll stems from his Wr routes. As the Colts are just dropping into coverage. Third and eight needing to get to the 30. Beasley and Sanders are running 13-18 yards downfield when see above 7 men have already failed to block for Josh. Sanders is at the 40! Beasley 35.

 

The colts are dropping into zone. Now on the other end not one of our receiver can even get open! Beasley trying to sit in a zone with two defenders around him and Sanders is so close  to Beasley vicinity and covered that there was enough time for those defenders to come over and pick the ball off. 
 

I’ve seen these deep route schemes all season long.
 

Why not more quick slants to Diggs or shorter routes like outs or comeback. 

 

Right now when our guys are asked to go medium to deep I don’t think they have been great at getting open. Beas and Sanders just might be slowing down.. More often than not our best plays are Josh buying time and both him and receiver creating something out of chaos. 
 

They need to use Braieda like an Ekeler. Have him roll out under the coverage and try to hit him running and see what he can do. His speed is evident. They need to make teams account for him. He should be the main back. 

 

What is being put out there offensively is just not good enough and would any one complain if we choose to go in a different direction? 
 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I might get flamed for this, but I think Daboll has warmed out his welcome.  I'm tired of not being able to run. Maybe I'm spoiled because of all the Travis Henry's, Lesean McCoy's, and Fred Jackson's of the past, but they simple cannot keep putting it all on Allen EVERY game. Look how much he has regressed this year. He's getting absolutely pummeled and the play calling is not helping. 

 

Bills need to start looking for OCs that can get the job done. Imagine what a guy like Greg Roman could do If you gave him a guy like Josh Allen to work with. Passing 75% of the time with a crap offensive line is going to destroy and send him into an early retirement. 

 

The good thing is we've found our QB. With the right moves in the off-season, we can right this ship. Go hard in the draft and free agency for big maulers, hire a  coordinator w/ a proven system. This offense could be soon much better than it is. I refuse to settle for less.

 

Daboll has got to go. 

 

I'm afraid I am also in agreement with this, begrudgingly.............. I am NOT one to go after the OC every game, but Daboll can't keep on going into games with token runs. This team needs a dynamic RB that is not either a one trick pass catching pony (Singletary) or a should be physical force who ends up with a cloud of dust and 2 yards or even a fumble (Moss). WHERE IN THE **** IS BREIDA? Why is he an afterthought when he's by far producing more per play??? Yeah, it's all BS....

 

Daboll, the O-Line, and the RB position are ALL massive issues....... however.......

 

The Bills defense better shape up and not have another game like they did on Sunday.... that was PATHETIC and I'm far more angry about that!!!

 

PS Thank you shaw66 for the Rockpile review as always! Been waiting to read it...

Edited November 23, 2021 by EasternOHBillsFan

[In Summary]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I don't remember anyone wanting that. Maybe a couple of the random nut jobs we get here, but who the heck doesn't want the Bills to run it? 

 

Everyone saw Tampa Bay last year and how much Brady benefitted from running it. Fournette should've been the Super Bowl MVP last year. 

 

 

The pass first, pass always narrative is in part driven by some WGR personalities. 

[Maynard]

10 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I might get flamed for this, but I think Daboll has warmed out his welcome.  I'm tired of not being able to run. Maybe I'm spoiled because of all the Travis Henry's, Lesean McCoy's, and Fred Jackson's of the past, but they simple cannot keep putting it all on Allen EVERY game. Look how much he has regressed this year. He's getting absolutely pummeled and the play calling is not helping. 

 

Bills need to start looking for OCs that can get the job done. Imagine what a guy like Greg Roman could do If you gave him a guy like Josh Allen to work with. Passing 75% of the time with a crap offensive line is going to destroy and send him into an early retirement. 

 

The good thing is we've found our QB. With the right moves in the off-season, we can right this ship. Go hard in the draft and free agency for big maulers, hire a  coordinator w/ a proven system. This offense could be soon much better than it is. I refuse to settle for less.

 

Daboll has got to go. 

I don’t see McD firing Daboll, so we have to hope someone pursues him as their next HC. I’m starting to doubt this now though, as his offense is less than stellar and has been a bit exposed this year. If I’m the GM for a team looking for my next HC I’d be looking elsewhere.

[frostbitmic]

Are the Bears still hiring Daboll in the off season to be their new HC ? ... Inquiring minds need to know.

 

If all the offense tries to do Thursday is pass the ball, Cam Jordan is going to feast on JA17. He'll run around, through and over Williams.

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, BubbaT said:

I don't disagree with what you've said but Feliciano's injury is not season ending. He's eligible to come off IR this week.

Thanks for this.   Actually, I wondered about it, but my faulty memory told me he was done.   If he comes back, that will help.  He has bigger muscles than most of those guys!

[dorquemada]

9 minutes ago, Maynard said:

I don’t see McD firing Daboll, so we have to hope someone pursues him as their next HC. I’m starting to doubt this now though, as his offense is less than stellar and has been a bit exposed this year. If I’m the GM for a team looking for my next HC I’d be looking elsewhere.

 

Oh God let's hope it doesnt turn into the same kind of situation that led to Wade Phillips leaving.  I doubt the Pegulas force McD's hand but the entire coaching staff and leadership seem married to their own ideas and unable/unwilling to adjust

 

Nobody is looking at Daboll as a HC now.  He's a one trick pony.  If you can't make his gimmick work with Josh Allen, i'm not sure there's any QB that can be successful with it beyond a flash in the pan like the Bills had last year

[TC in St. Louis]

The game sucked.  The team made every conceivable mistake.  The Colts played their best game of the year, and we played our worst.  When you play this poorly, you will lose.  

 

Our defense has been dominant in nearly every game.  They failed Sunday.  

 

Time to play angry football.  We're about to find out what we have here in Buffalo.  

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Bills CAN run, Daboll just refuses to try. Breida is an explosive runner. McKenzie is explosive on jet sweeps. Singletary is limited but has shown some shiftiness in open space in recent weeks. But Daboll seemingly only calls run plays to fill his minimum quota for the week. Breida broke open a drive for us yesterday when we desperately needed one. Daboll then put Moss on the field and the drive predictably stalled out. The Bills lacked speed on their offense last year. They added a RB with elite speed and have inexplicably refused to use him.

 

I don't think Daboll truly believes in running the ball. He thinks we can live and die on the same old 20 yard pass plays, and if the o-line doesn't hold up long enough for the routes to develop it's not his fault. Forget running the ball, we'll keep using the same crossing routes and deep hitches. An occasional half hearted screen to fill that quota. Run Beasley and his bruised ribs into heavy traffic and ask him to make tough catches. That stuff worked so well last year, right? Daboll needs to learn - it's crazy that he doesn't already know this - that every season is a new team. He thought he'd just roll back the same offense with no changes and surely it would work. I guess he forgot that there are coaches on the other sideline that have access to last year's tape.

I like these comments, and generally agree, except with the overall conclusion that the Bills can run the ball.   I'm not so sure about that.  The reason is there never seem to be holes or decent seams to run through.  The backs always find a mass of bodies in front of them, and no good spots to cut back to.  The Bills run those outside zone plays sometimes, and nothing opens up.  

 

I do think, however, that there is some truth to the notion that regardless, you have to keep on running it.  You have to give the ball to your backs 20 times a game and pound them in there, even if they're getting 3 yards a carry, because just the fact that the backs are getting the ball every third snap will help keep the defense honest.  Then, if you're right and I'm wrong, they'll spring some runs just by virtue of having tried so often.   Plus, the defense naturally will react to the run fake.  

 

I agree about lack of speed.   And I really agree about getting the ball wide.   Bucs opened last night running a receiver around the end on two of their first three running plays.   They sent the Giants a memo saying "if you don't protect the flank, we're going to run there."  Bills should be getting the ball to people with speed - Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, McKenzie, Breida, on plays that go wide.   Bills are good at getting blockers out in front of Allen when he takes designed runs; why don't they get blockers on the edge like that for the speed guys?   

 

So, bottom line, I think there's more that can be done, and I think it's on Daboll.  And the line.   

[dorquemada]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I like these comments, and generally agree, except with the overall conclusion that the Bills can run the ball.   I'm not so sure about that.  The reason is there never seem to be holes or decent seams to run through.  The backs always find a mass of bodies in front of them, and no good spots to cut back to.  The Bills run those outside zone plays sometimes, and nothing opens up.  

 

 

 

How many more times are we going to get to watch Moss slowly approach the line and gently bounce backwards off whichever OL is in front of him?

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Groin said:

Was wondering if you were going to take the week off after that debacle.

Three hours in the car after the game, and a stop for dinner.  Check into the hotel and attend to some personal matters Sunday night.  Up and driving four hours Monday, then a visit to the doctor and a little grocery shopping.  Dinner, turn on the game and write the review.   

 

 

2 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

How many more times are we going to get to watch Moss slowly approach the line and gently bounce backwards off whichever OL is in front of him?

Well, the way Daboll calls the plays, only a couple of times a game!

[dorquemada]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Well, the way Daboll calls the plays, only a couple of times a game!

 

Lol.  Like he's designing run plays to fail so he can say i told you so now let me get back to having josh throw into triple coverage

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Lol.  Like he's designing run plays to fail so he can say i told you so now let me get back to having josh throw into triple coverage

You know, I'm even okay with Josh throwing into, well, double coverage, if he has a clean pocket and is just standing there finding the right target.   He can get the ball into tight places.   But when he's about to get hammered by one guy or another and throwing into coverage, that's not a good formula. 

[BuffaloMatt]

11 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The Bills CAN run, Daboll just refuses to try. Breida is an explosive runner. McKenzie is explosive on jet sweeps. Singletary is limited but has shown some shiftiness in open space in recent weeks. But Daboll seemingly only calls run plays to fill his minimum quota for the week. Breida broke open a drive for us yesterday when we desperately needed one. Daboll then put Moss on the field and the drive predictably stalled out. The Bills lacked speed on their offense last year. They added a RB with elite speed and have inexplicably refused to use him.

 

I don't think Daboll truly believes in running the ball. He thinks we can live and die on the same old 20 yard pass plays, and if the o-line doesn't hold up long enough for the routes to develop it's not his fault. Forget running the ball, we'll keep using the same crossing routes and deep hitches. An occasional half hearted screen to fill that quota. Run Beasley and his bruised ribs into heavy traffic and ask him to make tough catches. That stuff worked so well last year, right? Daboll needs to learn - it's crazy that he doesn't already know this - that every season is a new team. He thought he'd just roll back the same offense with no changes and surely it would work. I guess he forgot that there are coaches on the other sideline that have access to last year's tape.

WELL SAID. Sometimes you have to get creative and try to run the ball. And it may come in the form of swing pass, screens etc. Rams and SF notorious for running out of different looks. 

[clayboy54]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I like these comments, and generally agree, except with the overall conclusion that the Bills can run the ball.   I'm not so sure about that.  The reason is there never seem to be holes or decent seams to run through.  The backs always find a mass of bodies in front of them, and no good spots to cut back to.  The Bills run those outside zone plays sometimes, and nothing opens up.  

 

I do think, however, that there is some truth to the notion that regardless, you have to keep on running it.  You have to give the ball to your backs 20 times a game and pound them in there, even if they're getting 3 yards a carry, because just the fact that the backs are getting the ball every third snap will help keep the defense honest.  Then, if you're right and I'm wrong, they'll spring some runs just by virtue of having tried so often.   Plus, the defense naturally will react to the run fake.  

 

I agree about lack of speed.   And I really agree about getting the ball wide.   Bucs opened last night running a receiver around the end on two of their first three running plays.   They sent the Giants a memo saying "if you don't protect the flank, we're going to run there."  Bills should be getting the ball to people with speed - Diggs, Sanders, Beasley, McKenzie, Breida, on plays that go wide.   Bills are good at getting blockers out in front of Allen when he takes designed runs; why don't they get blockers on the edge like that for the speed guys?   

 

So, bottom line, I think there's more that can be done, and I think it's on Daboll.  And the line.   

Your article this week is spot on, Shaw. Although, as you say above that they can't run effectively may be true, we'll never know because in order to be successful running, you have to get the defense to buy into biting up to stop it. Then as you know, you trap and use misdirection to make it successful. In essence, you have to run a good amount to make running work.

 

Additionally as you know, the OL has to be committed to the run scheme and alter their technique accordingly. Maybe our OL guys would be good at it, but we'll again never know. You just can't be successful running from a pass pro OL scheme. Since we've proven that we are not a great line in pass pro, we'd have little risk to change it up and give it a try. Heck, JA17 would be in no more peril passing from a run-blocking scheme than he already is with our poor pass pro.

 

Finally as you also know, the players just do what they're asked to do. They don't design the scheme or call the plays. The failure is on coaching. Let me ask you, what has changed from last year to this year insofar as coaching is concerned? I don't know anything behind the scenes anymore, but maybe you do. From a distance, I say DORSEY. Nothing else has changed. Maybe it's a Peter Principle deal, where passing game coordinator is over his head. Then again, maybe it's something altogether different. Regardless, I don't buy that everyone else in the league has us figured out, (except the JETS). It's gotta be something else, and it's affected this team from top to bottom.

Edited November 23, 2021 by clayboy54