NYS releases Bills stadium study

[klos63]

6 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

I love real football weather as well. Trouble is football isn't built for real weather anymore. 

Why is bad weather considered football weather? I'm gonna guess over 80% of the games are played in games where weather isn't a factor.

[Richard Noggin]

Meh, I guess I could deal with a downtown stadium. By the time it's completed I'd be around 50, so a new approach to tailgating wouldn't be SO bad. 

 

Really prefer a lot of seating coverage, and even some field, but WITHOUT a full roof (retractable or not). 

[Utah John]

No dome.  It's football, not track and field.  Weather is supposed to play a part in how games go.

40 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

The new build includes cheerleaders locker rooms.... 👀

Now that you mention it, isn't it time to bring back the Jills?  

 

Probably the Eichel situation will get resolved before the Jills situation is.

[Since1981]

Remember when we used to say “weather was a competitive advantage”? Aka ground and pound days? That’s not the 2021 NFL except for King Henry—-ONE GUY!

 

offenses, QB, receivers, special teams…no FA wants to play in the constant winds over Lake Erie. 
 

it is a competitive disadvantage to have excessive winds for recruitment and fan attendance late season.  Crazy to build without an “enclosure” from wind. 

[Augie]

50 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Did you just say that a multi billionaire would could write a check for the new stadium and still be a multi billionaire isn’t greedy when he puts his hand out for money that comes out of wage earners paychecks?? 
 

Let’s be clear here, the Pegulas in no way need public monies on any level to build a stadium. 

 

Sorry, I’ll have to rephrase this. I’d say he’s not being greedy, he’s just not being stupid. I can’t hate on that. That’s just the way the game is played now, and I have no hard feelings for him looking for any and all additional funding from local, state, NFL or federal sources. Like everybody else. 

 

In fact, I would think less of the Pegulas and the Bills if they didn’t look into all possible sources of funding. That is one reason I wish they could find a way to integrate with UB’s plans. I don’t know where that would be, or what that would look like, but it just makes so much sense! I’m not a local guy anymore, but why build TWO? I know and understand UB wanting an on-campus stadium, I really do, but maybe a top tier stadium helps recruiting. Try to get more state (and maybe federal?)  money by doing the smart thing. 

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Just please no dome... Most domes look absolutely awful on TV. I want to see swirling snow and dark clouds as a backdrop as I'm enjoying the game on my comfy couch!

 

 

 

I really like what the Vikings did.

 

It is so bright and airy that it has somewhat of the “feel” of an outdoor stadium.

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Sorry, I’ll have to rephrase this. I’d say he’s not being greedy, he’s just not being stupid. I can’t hate on that. That’s just the way the game is played now, and I have no hard feelings for him looking for any and all additional funding from local, state, NFL or federal sources. Like everybody else. 

 

In fact, I would think less of the Pegulas and the Bills if they didn’t look into all possible sources of funding. That is one reason I wish they could find a way to integrate with UB’s plans. I don’t know where that would be, or what that would look like, but it just makes so much sense! I’m not a local guy anymore, but why build TWO? I know and understand UB wanting an on-campus stadium, I really do, but maybe a top tier stadium helps recruiting. Try to get more state (and maybe federal?)  money by doing the smart thing. 

I don’t disagree with the “why build two” thing, I was getting on a bit about folks seemingly thinking that they should be paying a corporations bill for the construction of the infrastructure for that corporation (the Pegulas)  to do business, that makes the Pegulas money.  It irritates me that people just love giving their money to billionaires who don’t need the public’s support to build said infrastructure (stadium) to begin with. It’s a scam that folk appear to have fallen for, and they keep falling for it over and over. 

 

[Spiderweb]

8 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

I love real football weather as well. Trouble is football isn't built for real weather anymore. 

And that is exactly why a dome is appropriate, especially in Buffalo.

[TheFunPolice]

39 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I really like what the Vikings did.

 

It is so bright and airy that it has somewhat of the “feel” of an outdoor stadium.

 

That's not bad, but it would be much more expensive than the roof estimate from this study, which assumed basic structure and not glass

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

That's not bad, but it would be much more expensive than the roof estimate from this study, which assumed basic structure and not glass

 

The Vikings built that stadium just a few years ago for $1.1B

[JoPoy88]

33 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

That's not bad, but it would be much more expensive than the roof estimate from this study, which assumed basic structure and not glass

Adjusted for inflation (and, admittedly, ignoring the cost differences based on state, location, etc.) this place would be $1.2 billion today. Would it not be in their interest to look into a non-traditional structure like Minn? It seems affordable based on the numbers they’re throwing around.

 

FYI the Minn US Bank funding deal broke down: 50% vikings, 35% state, 15% city. The city is already late on payments. 

[FieldGeneral]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

The Vikings built that stadium just a few years ago for $1.1B

 

Did they have to build multiple expressways and more infrastructure?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

14 minutes ago, FieldGeneral said:

 

Did they have to build multiple expressways and more infrastructure?

Upgrading infrastructure should be viewed as a positive. This Stadium would transform the city even more.

[Buffalo03]

If they don't put a retractible roof on it, they won't play a SB in the stadium. All the new stadiums are hosting one but we won't get one with open air in the elements in February 

[BillsfaninSB]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

If they don't put a retractible roof on it, they won't play a SB in the stadium. All the new stadiums are hosting one but we won't get one with open air in the elements in February 

 Buffalo is never getting a Super Bowl even with a roof.

 

The most they can hope for is the combine, a college bowl game and maybe the draft. 

[QCity]

4 hours ago, Since1981 said:

it is a competitive disadvantage to have excessive winds for recruitment and fan attendance late season.  Crazy to build without an “enclosure” from wind. 

 

Architectural engineering and computers have come a long way in the last 50 years, and along with it wind load simulation and analysis. I assure you, even in the "plains of ECC South," winds can drastically be reduced with a properly designed open-air stadium (note I said reduced, not eliminated completely as I'm certain someone will try to make that strawman argument after reading this). It will be a huge difference from that hole-in-the-ground with 2 giant aerofoils (upper decks) that create a vortex inside of a wind tunnel.

 

I also don't think it's this extreme competitive disadvantage that many fans make it out to be. Winning and a stud QB cures that problem. And if you're a party boy that just wants to flash money and chase women up and down the beach, then head to Miami. Only hard-nosed football players need apply here (you want Antonio Brown or Cole Beasley?)

 

47 minutes ago, BillsfaninSB said:

 Buffalo is never getting a Super Bowl even with a roof.

 

The most they can hope for is the combine, a college bowl game and maybe the draft. 

 

 

It's crazy that some people are still using a Superbowl as an impetus for a dome. You nailed it, we're getting a draft and a combine.

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by QCity

[Mr. WEO]

So it's either going to be downtown or at OP...

 

This is a blockbuster!

[SoCal Deek]

7 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

I don’t disagree with the “why build two” thing, I was getting on a bit about folks seemingly thinking that they should be paying a corporations bill for the construction of the infrastructure for that corporation (the Pegulas)  to do business, that makes the Pegulas money.  It irritates me that people just love giving their money to billionaires who don’t need the public’s support to build said infrastructure (stadium) to begin with. It’s a scam that folk appear to have fallen for, and they keep falling for it over and over. 

 

Mr Pegula doesn’t owe you a stadium. His ‘business’ is doing just fine in OP. The stadium is for YOU, not him. He’s sitting in an air conditioned box suite with food brought to his seat. While I know the term billionaire sticks in your craw you simply cannot compare the business model of a professional sports team to other more conventional businesses.

[CountDorkula]

10 hours ago, fridge said:

 

That's the point.

That includes the Bills players.....

[DrDawkinstein]

Popping back in this thread after I had a chance to take a deeper dive into the report last night...

 

One thing I want to clarify is the cost difference between OP and Downtown.

 

I see people quoting $1.35B for OP and $2.1B for Downtown and that is not an accurate, apples to apples comparison.

 

Per the report, it would cost $1.35B to build an open air stadium in OP, and about $1.70B to build the same open air stadium downtown. Maybe $1.80B.

 

The report specifies "up to" $2.1B downtown for all the bells and whistles. The same bells and whistles stadium in OP would be about $1.80B.

 

So there really isnt a huge $800M difference between the two sites. It's more like $400M.

 

Plus those infrastructure upgrades downtown need to happen and would benefit everyone beyond just the stadium. Even more reason to go downtown.

 

And then there is this:

 

While I'm not expecting any huge economic impact from the downtown stadium, even the study agrees it would generate something, as opposed to keeping it in OP and generating nothing.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[Mat68]

Looks like a study to determine cost.  Similar finding to Bills study.  Seems they get what they want.  The End of the day the Bills need a new stadium.  The one suggested is the least expensive option.  Feel like its moving towards that point. 

[haroldwaide]

I imagine the executives at PSE were pleased to read this report.  It basically says the same thing I've been saying all along:  Orchard park is the cheapest, best option.  

Edited November 3, 2021 by haroldwaide

[SoMAn]

17 hours ago, QCity said:

 

The partially-covered Seattle model has been my preference since it was built. Fantastic design!

Living in Atlanta and having been to the Georgia Dome for games, I've always hated the circus tent feel of indoor football.  Football under blue sky is my preference.

That said, as I get older (as many longtime fans are at or nearing their golden years), I like the idea of comfort in a climate controlled stadium.

The ideal venue for me would be something similar to the Vikings home, where the spectators are protected from the elements, but it's built to allow lots of natural light from above and at the ends. 

I believe the home field advantage/bad weather argument is overrated.  Both teams have the same conditions. Even southern or dome teams have players who've played in cold.

 

Seems to me it's usually the younger crowd who want the open-air option, but they have greater tolerance for extreme conditions.  An enclosed stadium would be desirable to for a larger portion of potential attendees. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening - they'll probably have an open-air stadium with heated seats and heated areas that cater to old farts like my crowd.

Edited November 3, 2021 by SoMAn

[CountDorkula]

5 minutes ago, haroldwaide said:

I imagine the executives at PSE were pleased to read this report.  It basically says the same thing I've been saying all along:  Orchard park is the cheapest,

FTFY

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Mr Pegula doesn’t owe you a stadium. His ‘business’ is doing just fine in OP. The stadium is for YOU, not him. He’s sitting in an air conditioned box suite with food brought to his seat. While I know the term billionaire sticks in your craw you simply cannot compare the business model of a professional sports team to other more conventional businesses.

Nor do we owe him a stadium what don’t folk understand about this? If he wants a new stadium he can write the check for it, your logic is broken, Mr Pegula does indeed want a new stadium, and he can pay for it one hundred percent, it’s not on the taxpayers to build/finance him a new stadium on any level, What don’t folk understand about this massive financial scam that the NFL/owners have foisted on the taxpayers backs???? How is it that otherwise intelligent people fall for this scam???

Edited November 3, 2021 by Don Otreply

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, FieldGeneral said:

 

Did they have to build multiple expressways and more infrastructure?

 

The added cost of these items is said to be around $300 Million more.

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

Adjusted for inflation (and, admittedly, ignoring the cost differences based on state, location, etc.) this place would be $1.2 billion today. Would it not be in their interest to look into a non-traditional structure like Minn? It seems affordable based on the numbers they’re throwing around.

 

FYI the Minn US Bank funding deal broke down: 50% vikings, 35% state, 15% city. The city is already late on payments. 

 

Agreed.

 

I believe Minnesota should be the blueprint. Not Seattle.

 

I actually find Seattle’s stadium quite ugly.

[Einstein]

54 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Popping back in this thread after I had a chance to take a deeper dive into the report last night...

 

One thing I want to clarify is the cost difference between OP and Downtown.

 

I see people quoting $1.35B for OP and $2.1B for Downtown and that is not an accurate, apples to apples comparison.

 

Per the report, it would cost $1.35B to build an open air stadium in OP, and about $1.70B to build the same open air stadium downtown. Maybe $1.80B.

 

The report specifies "up to" $2.1B downtown for all the bells and whistles. The same bells and whistles stadium in OP would be about $1.80B.

 

So there really isnt a huge $800M difference between the two sites. It's more like $400M.

 

Plus those infrastructure upgrades downtown need to happen and would benefit everyone beyond just the stadium. Even more reason to go downtown.

 

And then there is this:

 

While I'm not expecting any huge economic impact from the downtown stadium, even the study agrees it would generate something, as opposed to keeping it in OP and generating nothing.

 

 

 

The portion you circled actually works against the downtown folks theory that a stadium and better infrastructure downtown would result in an economic positive.

 

$53 million is peanuts. Without breaking out a calculator, I hazard a guess that it barely covers the interest on the money required to build it.

 

When any positive is negated by a negative of equal size, its in all actuality comparing “nothing” to “nothing”.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Einstein

[May Day 10]

While the downtown option seems a little more compelling to me as a result of this report, I think this all but buries the idea.  This report, which basically summarizes that Orchard Park is much cheaper and quicker, combined with the Pegulas obvious stance to build in Orchard Park make it a certainty (if they can agree on funding).  

 

My prediction is we get a deal before the Wild Card round of the playoffs

[LabattBlue]

I wonder how much say NYS/EC have in terms of indoor/outdoor stadium?   After all, between the two government entities there is a good chance they are kicking in the majority of money towards the stadium. 

[TheFunPolice]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

The Vikings built that stadium just a few years ago for $1.1B

 

I know, that's what is so crazy about these cost estimates to build in Buffalo/WNY!

[longtimebillsfan]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Popping back in this thread after I had a chance to take a deeper dive into the report last night...

 

One thing I want to clarify is the cost difference between OP and Downtown.

 

I see people quoting $1.35B for OP and $2.1B for Downtown and that is not an accurate, apples to apples comparison.

 

Per the report, it would cost $1.35B to build an open air stadium in OP, and about $1.70B to build the same open air stadium downtown. Maybe $1.80B.

 

The report specifies "up to" $2.1B downtown for all the bells and whistles. The same bells and whistles stadium in OP would be about $1.80B.

 

So there really isnt a huge $800M difference between the two sites. It's more like $400M.

 

Plus those infrastructure upgrades downtown need to happen and would benefit everyone beyond just the stadium. Even more reason to go downtown.

 

And then there is this:

 

While I'm not expecting any huge economic impact from the downtown stadium, even the study agrees it would generate something, as opposed to keeping it in OP and generating nothing.

 

 

I am curious why the "build downtown" advocates ignore the fact that a downtown location would virtually eliminate tailgating.   This is such an important part of the game day experience and the core of the legend that is the Bills mafia.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I am curious why the "build downtown" advocates ignore the fact that a downtown location would virtually eliminate tailgating.   This is such an important part of the game day experience and the core of the legend that is the Bills mafia.

 

I really dont give a crap about tailgating. There will still be tailgating options, and I'd bet you would see a number of private lots open up as well.

 

But I'm here for football. I go to the games to watch the Bills. We have a raucous time inside while the game is going on.

 

The tailgate stuff only blew up when the team was horrible during the drought to make the gamedays at least somewhat fun. We dont suck anymore.

 

If I wanted to re-live my college days, I'd go back on alumni weekend.

 

edit to add: We've had GREAT times in Nashville, pre-game, in their bar district. It would be similar. Way less hassle of setting up and breaking down and cleaning up. Show up, party, and let someone else deal with the bs while you get to walk into the game.

Edited November 3, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

That includes the Bills players.....

Josh and Beane have both supported open air. I bet McDermott feels the same way.

 

They don't need weak players who complain about the weather, anyway. When you're an actual player, the weather elements hype you up even more. You don't remember high school and getting pumped up for a rainy or snowy game?

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Nor do we owe him a stadium what don’t folk understand about this? If he wants a new stadium he can write the check for it, your logic is broken, Mr Pegula does indeed want a new stadium, and he can pay for it one hundred percent, it’s not on the taxpayers to build/finance him a new stadium on any level, What don’t folk understand about this massive financial scam that the NFL/owners have foisted on the taxpayers backs???? How is it that otherwise intelligent people fall for this scam???

I'm hopeful that the Pegulas are committed to keeping the Bills in WNY above all else.

 

So, if they can't get the state to agree on an OP location, maybe they back out and get full private funding. They surely can if they really wanted to. I'm not sure what ramifications that would have with the state. I assume it would also mean worse prices for the fans.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Nor do we owe him a stadium what don’t folk understand about this? If he wants a new stadium he can write the check for it, your logic is broken, Mr Pegula does indeed want a new stadium, and he can pay for it one hundred percent, it’s not on the taxpayers to build/finance him a new stadium on any level, What don’t folk understand about this massive financial scam that the NFL/owners have foisted on the taxpayers backs???? How is it that otherwise intelligent people fall for this scam???

 

We (Buffalo) kinda do.

 

It makes little sense that there is even an NFL team in Buffalo, given the size of the market. If the league were starting today we would most definitely not have a team. And wouldnt even be in the Plan B list.

 

Partially paying for a new stadium is the price of having a team in a location that cant be justified in any other way. And keep in mind, this cost gets spread out over the whole state, Albany and NYC, not just WNY.

 

Let NYC chip in to let us have our nice thing.

[BuffaloBills1998]

15 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I'm hopeful that the Pegulas are committed to keeping the Bills in WNY above all else.

 

So, if they can't get the state to agree on an OP location, maybe they back out and get full private funding. They surely can if they really wanted to. I'm not sure what ramifications that would have with the state. I assume it would also mean worse prices for the fans.

The Bills aren’t going anywhere they’re staying in Buffalo. Pegula bought the team to make sure of that

[LeGOATski]

Just now, BuffaloBills1998 said:

The Bills aren’t going anywhere they’re staying in Buffalo. Pegula bought the team to make sure of that

Right, they just have Raccuia spitting fire for them. Good cop, bad cop.

[purple haze]

21 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

Fans may not want a dome but i would bet a lot of money players do. 

 

Players dont like playing in cold weather. 

And yet they show up and play anyway.  Those checks are on time.

20 hours ago, corta765 said:

Give me Minnesota's glass cover where it shows a ton of sun and natural light to the point it looks like your outside at points if you were to do a roof. Otherwise outdoor do what Seattle has.

You know that type of roof will probably cost even more.

[BuffaloBills1998]

15 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I'm hopeful that the Pegulas are committed to keeping the Bills in WNY above all else.

 

So, if they can't get the state to agree on an OP location, maybe they back out and get full private funding. They surely can if they really wanted to. I'm not sure what ramifications that would have with the state. I assume it would also mean worse prices for the fans.

The Bills aren’t going anywhere they’re staying in Buffalo. Pegula bought the team to make sure of that

[Einstein]

53 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I am curious why the "build downtown" advocates ignore the fact that a downtown location would virtually eliminate tailgating.   This is such an important part of the game day experience and the core of the legend that is the Bills mafia.

 

I've noticed that a large proportion of downtown advocates are out-of-towners.

 

They want to come to Buffalo, stay in a hotel, eat at a heated restaurant, and walk a block to the game.