Von Miller to the Rams

[Royale with Cheese]

Von Miller is still a good pass rusher but not an elite/game changer anymore.  I don't think this moves the needle much. 

The Broncos are at 4-4 and very much still in the playoff race.  They were still willing to part ways with him in.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

26 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I must have missed the news that Elway is out.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

I must have missed the news that Elway is out.

He gave up the GM job in the offseason. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Since we are in our window, and are paying our franchise QB, I'm in favor of trading ANY pick for the right player. Our first round pick is going to be late anyway. If I could get Quinton Nelson for a first I do it in a heartbeat. But, at least get someone who CAN play on the interior OLINE.

[FilthyBeast]

12 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I agree you don't trade away 1st or 2nd rounders unless your getting a stud still under 25,  but no reason why we cannot find a starting level guard for 3rd  or 4th rounder and RB with play making skills and good speed for 5th or 6th rounder

 

 

Watch how other teams make moves and we sit around talking about getting better

 

 

La'el Collins  cap hit of $6,369,444 and can play both tackle and guard,  maybe we send them Butler (expiring contract) along with a 3rd or 4th rounder.  

 

I think this is what scares everyone in that this team honesty probably believes that the current glaring holes are magically going to somehow rectify themselves in the coming weeks and stick to 'the run it back' offseason plan.

 

Sure a guy like Feliciano is going to look serviceable against some of the junk left on the schedule, but then again he was the worst player out there yesterday against a 1-7 Dolphins team who just isn't that good on defense up front.

 

Also regarding the pass rush, I have no problem letting the younger guys get playing time but we are still struggling to finish on the pass rush front for the most part and DT is still a big need IMO because we truly have nothing behind Oliver and Star.

[No_Matter_What]

42 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

 

So this only means that Broncos pay real cash or it also means that they absorb the cap hit?

 

In other words, do we know what his cap hit will be in Rams this year (and next years, if any)?

[FilthyBeast]

8 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

 

I don't believe the Rams are the class of the NFC. And I don't believe Stafford will get them there. 

 

And if I'm wrong and they do make it there, and the Bills are there, you are ***** right I'm confident we can beat them with this oline/dline. And who is to say we don't get it figured out by then? Especially in that scenario, we are in the ***** super bowl?!?

 

That said, I'm not against upgrades and giving up mid to late draft picks for depth (or even a 'blockbuster' for the right player/situation), I just wanted to chime in on the one part of your post that I thought was ludicrous. 

 

It's not just the Rams, I posted last week about the current NFC landscape looking very strong similar to what older fans observed in the 80's/90's including why the Bills could never get over the hump despite being the most dominant team in the AFC conference.

 

As of today I just don't feel the Bills match up well against most of the top tier teams in the NFC right now (Rams/Cowboys/Packers/Cardinals/TB).

 

And for all those saying the Bills have room to improve, yes I agree with this but so do the aforementioned NFC teams who in some cases are already playing at a championship level.

 

At the end of the day I just feel that Beane needs to truly be bold and make a move that can help this team in the short term even if it's at the expense of quality draft picks and I would still feel that way even if the Bills hadn't struggled yesterday for the greater part of 3 quarters against a 1-7 team.

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

I bet Von was a "bit surprised" in the trade.  I guess I am too.

 

So as I see it the Bronco's in essence pay Miller for a season (and evidently were not going to re-sign him) for a 2nd and 3rd no doubt

for a QB draft move.  We will have to see if that move is worth it but it probably is good for them.

 

Rams get a "free" aging star OLB on a half-year-rental for a 2nd and 3rd who they may not have the money to re-sign next year.

I'm not sure if this is the move that puts them over this year.  I wouldn't like the move if I was a Ram's fan but that is just me.

 

I guess the Rams do save a lot of money not having to pay a college scouting staff for the next 2 years!  LOL.

Rams 2022 picks:  3,5,7,7.

Rams 2023 picks:  2,3,5,6,6,7.

[Niagara Dude]

4 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I think this is what scares everyone in that this team honesty probably believes that the current glaring holes are magically going to somehow rectify themselves in the coming weeks and stick to 'the run it back' offseason plan.

 

Sure a guy like Feliciano is going to look serviceable against some of the junk left on the schedule, but then again he was the worst player out there yesterday against a 1-7 Dolphins team who just isn't that good on defense up front.

 

Also regarding the pass rush, I have no problem letting the younger guys get playing time but we are still struggling to finish on the pass rush front for the most part and DT is still a big need IMO because we truly have nothing behind Oliver and Star.

Last year at the deadline i said the lack of a running RB with speed to make big plays in the running and no pass rush would bite the Bills in the playoffs and it did.  Right now i think they corrected pass rush problem or at least improved from last season and biggest issue we have is teams have no respect for our running game and our RB'S.  KC is our title game was leaving Singeltary open most of the game and he had a massive drop on 3rd down.  The guy is to slow,  at least Moss can sometimes run over people.  Singletary scares no one

 

Ravens are very interested in getting Collins,  Beane cannot let this opportunities pass because some of his key starters are getting older.  Look at our safeties,  both in their 30's or two of our WR'S in their 30's.  

[ColoradoBills]

12 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

So this only means that Broncos pay real cash or it also means that they absorb the cap hit?

 

In other words, do we know what his cap hit will be in Rams this year (and next years, if any)?

 

Rams pay $700k for him this year.  He is a UFA next year.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I agree you don't trade away 1st or 2nd rounders unless your getting a stud still under 25,  but no reason why we cannot find a starting level guard for 3rd  or 4th rounder and RB with play making skills and good speed for 5th or 6th rounder

 

 

Watch how other teams make moves and we sit around talking about getting better

 

 

La'el Collins  cap hit of $6,369,444 and can play both tackle and guard,  maybe we send them Butler (expiring contract) along with a 3rd or 4th rounder.  

 

The other team has to be motivated to make that trade.  The Cowboys are 6-1 and leading the NFC East, and believe they are contenders

-What does Butler give the Cowboys right now, that they need? 

-Depth is critical on OL.  Right now, Collins is good depth for the 'Boys

 

From the Bills POV:

-Vernon Butler played about half the snaps the first 3 games, then sat for 3 games before injury to Zimmer put him back in the lineup.  So we might spare him, but see above (Depth is critical on DL too)

-La'el Collins has just returned from a 5 game substance abuse suspension.  Sometimes when a player turns to banned stuff, it's because they feel they need them.  Collins missed all of 2020 with injury. So who are we getting?

 

Fans are all in proposing trades right and left (see what I did?) but they're rare because there's more to them.  Your proposal is actually more reasonable than most - Collins is not starting right now and has some ?, and Dallas is in another conference.

 

I LOL at all the posts suggesting division or conference rivals (with young hoped-for Franchise Guys to protect at QB) will trade us starting OLmen for a bag of chips and a hot dog.

[No_Matter_What]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Rams pay $700k for him this year.  He is a UFA next year.

Pay $700k = cap hit $700k?

[Niagara Dude]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The other team has to be motivated to make that trade.  The Cowboys are 6-1 and leading the NFC East, and believe they are contenders

-What does Butler give the Cowboys right now, that they need? 

-Depth is critical on OL.  Right now, Collins is good depth for the 'Boys

 

From the Bills POV:

-Vernon Butler played about half the snaps the first 3 games, then sat for 3 games before injury to Zimmer put him back in the lineup.  So we might spare him, but see above (Depth is critical on DL too)

-La'el Collins has just returned from a 5 game PED suspension.  Sometimes when a player turns to PEDs, it's because they feel they need them.  So who are we getting without the PEDs?

 

Fans are all in proposing trades right and left (see what I did?) but they're rare because there's more to them.  Your proposal is actually more reasonable than most - Collins is not starting right now and has some ?, and Dallas is in another conference.

 

I LOL at all the posts suggesting division or conference rivals (with young hoped-for Franchise Guys to protect at QB) will trade us starting OLmen for a bag of chips and a hot dog.

Ravens are targeting him,  no he is not a pro bowl lineman but he is huge upgrade over what we have starting at guard right now.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Pay $700k = cap hit $700k?

 

Yes.  Report is that Denver keeps $9M of Miller's $9.7M salary

 

They're fundamentally renting him for 9 games for a #2 and #3 draft pick and $700k

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I bet Von was a "bit surprised" in the trade.  I guess I am too.

 

So as I see it the Bronco's in essence pay Miller for a season (and evidently were not going to re-sign him) for a 2nd and 3rd no doubt

for a QB draft move.  We will have to see if that move is worth it but it probably is good for them.

 

Rams get a "free" aging star OLB on a half-year-rental for a 2nd and 3rd who they may not have the money to re-sign next year.

I'm not sure if this is the move that puts them over this year.  I wouldn't like the move if I was a Ram's fan but that is just me.

 

I guess the Rams do save a lot of money not having to pay a college scouting staff for the next 2 years!  LOL.

Rams 2022 picks:  3,5,7,7.

Rams 2023 picks:  2,3,5,6,6,7.

Wow. I guess that’s what “all in” really means. 
I’m generally not a fan of doing this, preferring to do the let’s build a consistent winner thing. But with the Rams, Stafford is clearly the guy they needed and he’s not getting any younger. And as in baseball, some of the big contracts are in line with performance now but will be a drag as players age.  They do have a short window; the future really is now. 
Now as for Vonn: he has literally lost a step or two and hasn’t been the kind of disruptive force this year that he used to be. Fair gamble that he’ll get

some of that back on the Rams defense, particularly if they can rest him and get him healthy for the playoffs. Broncos? They were

going nowhere this year (again) so this is the deal they should’ve made before last season, when Vonn’s value was greater. 

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, No_Matter_What said:

Pay $700k = cap hit $700k?

 

Yes his cap hit for the Rams is for paying him $700k.  He is a UFA next year.

Bronco's eat a total of $23M cap hit and paid him a little over $17M cash this year.  The rest of the cap was restructure money.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Ravens are targeting him,  no he is not a pro bowl lineman but he is huge upgrade over what we have starting at guard right now.

 

Slight correction.  He *was* a huge upgrade over what we have starting at guard, but that was in 2019.  What is he now?

 

As for the Ravens targeting him, that seems to be speculation:

https://ebonybird.com/2021/10/30/ravens-lael-collins-trade-target/

[eball]

56 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Agreed, but they won't do it. Their approach is to be consistently good and be fortunate enough to win one year.

 

Very poorly stated.  Their goal is indeed to be consistently good; good enough to win the SB in any year.  I've never heard Beane and McD say they "hope" to be "fortunate" to win a SB, or that they would be happy with just one.

 

That said, there is nothing "wrong" with what the Rams are doing either.  They want to win this year and made a splash move to try and get there.  They do not value future draft picks in the same way as many (most) teams do.  We'll see how it works out for them.

 

 

[QCity]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

And if those picks yielded those type of players would that not be an incredible draft?

 

That's a silly comparison. None of those players listed are young and on rookie contracts. The Rams have control over Miller for 9 games. That's it.

[Warcodered]

It's really going to suck for the Rams fans when they're watching the draft after they've still missed the Super Bowl, for all five of them.

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Wow. I guess that’s what “all in” really means. 
I’m generally not a fan of doing this, preferring to do the let’s build a consistent winner thing. But with the Rams, Stafford is clearly the guy they needed and he’s not getting any younger. And as in baseball, some of the big contracts are in line with performance now but will be a drag as players age.  They do have a short window; the future really is now. 
Now as for Vonn: he has literally lost a step or two and hasn’t been the kind of disruptive force this year that he used to be. Fair gamble that he’ll get

some of that back on the Rams defense, particularly if they can rest him and get him healthy for the playoffs. Broncos? They were

going nowhere this year (again) so this is the deal they should’ve made before last season, when Vonn’s value was greater. 

 

I guess there are different levels of "all in" but the Rams are pretty much the poster child for that again this year.

It's a constant debate on the board about whether the Bills should be doing the same thing.  

I have a hard time knowing what is right myself but tend to be more conservative.

One move I could agree with if it happened by tomorrow is for an OG.  I don't think it's worth it for a WR, TE or CB this year.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I guess there are different levels of "all in" but the Rams are pretty much the poster child for that again this year.

It's a constant debate on the board about whether the Bills should be doing the same thing.  

I have a hard time knowing what is right myself but tend to be more conservative.

One move I could agree with if it happened by tomorrow is for an OG.  I don't think it's worth it for a WR, TE or CB this year.

 

 

Yes.  I think it's safe to summarize our OL moves as "Not Enough"

[cDAVIS]

1 hour ago, Process said:

The Bills should absolutely be looking to make a big time move like this. 

 

It may be a while before we have an easier road to the SB. The AFC is weak. This is the year.

I don't think the AFC is weak at all but I do agree that our safeties and WRs are aging and they both are a staple of this team so now I'd a good window for us.

[Nineforty]

33 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

It's not just the Rams, I posted last week about the current NFC landscape looking very strong similar to what older fans observed in the 80's/90's including why the Bills could never get over the hump despite being the most dominant team in the AFC conference.

 

As of today I just don't feel the Bills match up well against most of the top tier teams in the NFC right now (Rams/Cowboys/Packers/Cardinals/TB).

 

And for all those saying the Bills have room to improve, yes I agree with this but so do the aforementioned NFC teams who in some cases are already playing at a championship level.

 

At the end of the day I just feel that Beane needs to truly be bold and make a move that can help this team in the short term even if it's at the expense of quality draft picks and I would still feel that way even if the Bills hadn't struggled yesterday for the greater part of 3 quarters against a 1-7 team.

 

I think you are confusing this sport with baseball. and how teams are playing right now are quite often not how they are playing at the end of the year. or even a week from now. I think you are overrating that NFC landscape. Just like everyone is underrating the AFC right now. It will ebb and flow throughout this season. as it always does.

 

I get big swings for teams with small windows.

 

we do not have a small window, in my opinion. that said, the diggs trade was a blockbuster and I was on board with that. 

 

I guess I am pushing back at the notion that WE HAVE TO do something to keep up with the jones. at the deadline. 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes.  I think it's safe to summarize our OL moves as "Not Enough"

 

If no moves are made by tomorrow then I'm all for going big next year in the draft/FA to fix the OL the right way.

I'm firmly in the camp that with a good OL Josh Allen makes even average WRs/TEs succeed.

He just needs a little more time to throw and the backs need better blocking.

[RobbRiddick]

We all know Brady will beat them in the playoffs

 

Miller will get a key hit that causes a game winning INT and then, just as we're all laughing and cheering, a late flag will be thrown and he'll get penalized for roughing.

 

Jesus, my brain really has been messed up by that 20 year case of Bradyitis 

[DCOrange]

39 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I bet Von was a "bit surprised" in the trade.  I guess I am too.

 

So as I see it the Bronco's in essence pay Miller for a season (and evidently were not going to re-sign him) for a 2nd and 3rd no doubt

for a QB draft move.  We will have to see if that move is worth it but it probably is good for them.

 

Rams get a "free" aging star OLB on a half-year-rental for a 2nd and 3rd who they may not have the money to re-sign next year.

I'm not sure if this is the move that puts them over this year.  I wouldn't like the move if I was a Ram's fan but that is just me.

 

I guess the Rams do save a lot of money not having to pay a college scouting staff for the next 2 years!  LOL.

Rams 2022 picks:  3,5,7,7.

Rams 2023 picks:  2,3,5,6,6,7.

Been a lot of buzz that they're trying to stockpile to make a run at Aaron Rodgers in the offseason too

[DrPJax]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s been pretty meh IMO 

Yeah but this is the type of all in move that I think we wish the Bills would make on the afc side this year, esp now with Henry potentially done for the season.  Does open the window more for us.  Remember , all Miller has to do with 99 and Ramsey is help get a sack or strip sack etc for an extra possession for that offense and they could be a gsme or SB title.  Should be some deals oit there to grab a guard , but sometimes it seems like we are a little too concerned about culture and offending guys on the team who are underperforming and may njot deserve their mental health above he teams playoff chances.  
 

Let’s see if Beane can help cement this O , or get an actual finisher on the d line prior to the deadline , or maybe he really still thinks they are a year away.  Can’t be satisfied with how inconsistent that O is and its related to poor line play that should have been addressed in the off-season and not allowed to reach the debacle level it is now.  They talk about all the support they have given Josh, yet they are letting him get hit, get balls batted , chased all day and requiring him to be the leading rusher as well.  Afc is ripe for taking , why not shoot for it now?  Rams move is admiral as NFL is a year to year , seize the present endeavor.   Hey , how bout thise Bucks tho ; a little bit of a slow game against the nittony lions.  Looks like we have a qb for the next year or two tho!  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I think the Bills were in on Melvin Gordon a couple years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a run for him if he's available.

[auburnbillsbacker]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

I give the Rams credit, they are not afraid to go all in the near term (i.e. next 2-3 years) at the expense of looking at a steep downturn with little to no resources via draft and cap space to replenish talent.

 

But from the Bills standpoint, Beane must do something even if just to address quality depth at positions of need (i.e. OG/DT) and not stand firm with the belief that holding on to mid/late round draft picks in 2022/2023 draft are more valuable than getting immediate veteran help even if only a short term rental vs players that probably won't even make this teams roster or remain on the practice squad (i.e. Jack Anderson).

 

Bottom line, is any Bills fan truly confident we would win a possible SB matchup against the Rams (with them having homefield advantage in that game) with this current oline/dline as is?

They also realize that they will get a comp pick every time a rented player signs elsewhere.  That's why the price tag they pay to trade for players is always less than it really is.  

[frostbitmic]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Won't someone think of the cap space!?!?

What is this cap space thing you mention ?

 

It's easier to manipulate 15 million over the cap than it is to beat a jaywalking charge.

[blacklabel]

The Rams are gonna be SOL in a couple seasons as they’re not gonna be able to afford to pay everyone and also don’t have any picks to draft replacements. 

[ColoradoBills]

16 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Been a lot of buzz that they're trying to stockpile to make a run at Aaron Rodgers in the offseason too

 

I don't think that Denver knows what they are going to do about the QB position.  We shall see next year.

[BillsfaninSB]

Rams proving draft picks can be a wee bit overrated. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m sure they’ll be thinking about that during the SB parade in LA in February. 😉

If they do. Have to get past tb first and whatever team in Superbowl hopefully Bills

[ngbills]

17 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

The Rams are gonna be SOL in a couple seasons as they’re not gonna be able to afford to pay everyone and also don’t have any picks to draft replacements. 

When does this ever happen to good teams? It seems like only the bad teams deal with this. Good teams find ways to restrux and work the cap to keep the guys they want. 

[The Frankish Reich]

21 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

The Rams are gonna be SOL in a couple seasons as they’re not gonna be able to afford to pay everyone and also don’t have any picks to draft replacements. 

This is exactly what I said about the Rams just a few years ago the last time they went all-in, mortgaging the future for the present. 
Maybe it’s time to re-think that whole notion since it seems that you can go all-in, have it work (they almost won a Super Bowl), have at most a couple of down years, and then be right back to do it all over again?

I would’ve said it only works if you retain that true franchise QB between your all-in runs, but the Rams are proving that wrong too. 

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

When does this ever happen to good teams? It seems like only the bad teams deal with this. Good teams find ways to restrux and work the cap to keep the guys they want. 

You beat me to it!

Edited November 1, 2021 by The Frankish Reich

[Nextmanup]

9 minutes ago, ngbills said:

When does this ever happen to good teams? It seems like only the bad teams deal with this. Good teams find ways to restrux and work the cap to keep the guys they want. 

Not only that, but quite clearly, the Rams are 100% going for a Super Bowl WIN THIS YEAR.

 

Let's say they do suck in a couple of years and bottom out.  If they win it all the year, who cares?  Cycles are part of sports.

 

The Sabres just played a very bad LA Kings team last night...that won 2 Cups not that long ago.

Would any Sabres fan care that we are bad if we had 2 Cups in our back pocket from just the past few years?

 

There are now 4 NFC teams that scare me should we somehow find our way to the big dance this year.

 

We are not a complete enough team to compete on that level---yet.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Nineforty said:

 

I think you are confusing this sport with baseball. and how teams are playing right now are quite often not how they are playing at the end of the year. or even a week from now. I think you are overrating that NFC landscape. Just like everyone is underrating the AFC right now. It will ebb and flow throughout this season. as it always does.

 

I get big swings for teams with small windows.

 

we do not have a small window, in my opinion. that said, the diggs trade was a blockbuster and I was on board with that. 

 

I guess I am pushing back at the notion that WE HAVE TO do something to keep up with the jones. at the deadline. 

 

 

I agree our window of opportunity is quite big, because Josh Allen is still quite young.

 

I would agree that we don't have to keep up at the deadline, but we need to keep up.

The sort of roster structuring we still need to do is work for the off-season anyway, not the trade deadline.

 

We are not there yet, but another off-season might fix that.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Exactly…. Would love to see the Bills make a move like this… they’ve invested a ***** ton into the defensive line and have clearly misjudged their investment on the offensive line. 

I pay for a good  of lineman

Ours is not very good

[Milanos Milano]

Why can’t we make big boy moves like this? I really hope Beane does something, because he needs to make a move. His build through the draft has been good, but he’s missed on a few picks as well. The Rams have built a very good team. I hope we make a splash before the deadline.