The "Right Josh" is no longer available; signed by the Falcons.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

 

I actually disagree. I think this narrative that Bills fans who were "wrong joshers" were actively rooting against Allen and wouldn't let go of their pre-draft guesses is overblown. How it got to be taken as gospel I don't know. Probably something about our general inferiority complex as a fan base. 

 

During that offseason I had times where I wanted the Bills to draft each of the top 4 prospects (I didn't want Lamar and I thought Rudolph would turn into what he has). By the time the draft rolled around I was in "play it safe" mode and wanted Rosen at that spot. I got over it very quickly because I'm a Bills fan and happily admitted my error in short order. I think this experience is pretty typical from what I've experienced on this board. 

 

I was all in on Mayfield until he went #1 and then I just didn't really care who they picked. I trusted the judgement of the FO. I wasn't on the Lamar train, though. I wanted a pocket passer. I'm a fan of the team and once a player puts on that uniform, I'm a supporter. You're right that people live & die w/ their pre-draft picks and Bills fans (and Western New Yorkers in general) DO have an inferiority complex. We're all in the Shadows of the big markets/big cities.

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Glad you were not trolling.  I could care less about his attitude or "cockiness".

It just seems to me he is not an NFL QB and he has kind of proven that on his last 3 teams.

Maybe someone else will give him another chance and if so we will see how that goes.

I can see your point in the sense that he never really displayed anything to instill hope as a franchise QB. Mostly all rookie QB prospects are going to struggle, even the greats. But what are you showing us as you take your lumps? Are you leaping 8 yds over LB's for a 1st down? (Minn) Are you throwing TD bombs while buried under a pile of defenders? (Jax) Are you rushing for 100 yards making defenders look helpless to stop you? (Mia). Displays like that inspire coaches and players to build around and play hard for you. Rosen never showed Arizona or Miami that IT factor that ensures a team made the right choice. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Yeah, no need to shed a tear for Wrong Josh.  He's done far better than most people whose dreams were crushed.

No one needs to feel sorry for Josh Rosen. I saw every snap he played at UCLA as a lifelong season ticket holder. The red flags were there. Mora had to misdirect them all the time during news conferences. The kids family is rich as sin. He'll play tennis or go into politics or start a business. The problem with JR during his entire time as a Bruin was whether he really enjoyed or was passionate about football. And I think this factored in his ability to work his way into a NFL QB1 position. His journey and us selecting JA should forever be a testament to McB's ability and vision.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:24 PM, Logic said:

I've said this before on this forum, but...

The split second between the words "Josh" and "Allen" coming out of Roger Goodell's mouth on draft day felt like an eternity. I so badly wanted the pick to be Rosen in that moment (I preferred Mayfield and Darnold, but both were off the board), and I was initially so despondent that the Bills had chosen Allen.

I was an idiot. I mean, I'm STILL an idiot, but....boy oh boy, was I wrong. It is unquestionably the happiest I've ever been to be so wrong in my life.

As for Rosen now? Well...I'm just not sure he's going to get many more opportunities. After you've flamed out with three teams in so short a time after being a 1st round draft picks...not sure how many teams are going to keep taking swings at you.

What's good, gents? What's good? 

 

In retrospect, JA17 would be the #1 overall pick in the 2018 draft 100 times out of 100, FACT!

Edited August 18, 2021 by Cotton Fitzsimmons

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Which makes your wonder how much the team that drafts you factors into how good you'll be as a pro. 

Absolutely. I remember the chants of "Suck for Darnold" and we were supposed to have missed out because he didn't come out of the draft the year after Rex left.

 

 

And then he got taken four picks ahead of Allen by the Jets. The Jets and Adam Gase in particular are a case study of what not to do 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

In retrospect, JA17 would be the #1 overall pick in the 2018 draft 100 times out of 100, FACT

Yeah think so too. I think more would agree with that than not. Some may say Lamar Jackson, but I think more would go Allen that Lamar 

[FilthyBeast]

I believe their reports pre -draft that Rosen turned off a lot of GM's with his attitude/personality.

 

If true it's not shocking that he's on the verge of being out of the league after just 3 NFL seasons or hoping to land a spot on a practice squad.

 

Beane has not been perfect but thank god he didn't draft Rosen or Darnold (if he would have been available).

[HappyDays]

I was one of the many Bills fans that wanted nothing to do with Allen and was dismayed when he was the pick over Rosen. My biggest takeaway is that you can't just evaluate the player; you also have to evaluate the person. All we had as fans was the tape. On tape Rosen was miles ahead of Allen. What we didn't have was all the behind the scenes knowledge about their character.

 

The Rosen/Allen result has actually changed the entire way that I think about scouting. Evaluating the player only is how you end up with busts like Isaiah Wilson or DeAndre Baker. You still need to have a requisite level of talent to make it in the NFL, character alone isn't enough. But all the talent in the world with no character is an equally losing formula. Luckily I believe we have a regime in place that understands this.

 

For all the people in this thread saying Rosen didn't get a fair chance, I think he got plenty of chances. What's happened again and again is that NFL decision makers have seen his habits in practice and the film room and decided his character isn't worth developing. That's why Rosen and Allen have taken opposite career trajectories.

[The Dean]

7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

It seems obvious you’re a bit of a Draft Guru, which begs the question; why didn’t you take into account Allen’s Wonderlick score?

 

 

Not sure if this was sarcastic. If it was, well done.

 

Seriously though, for a high 1st round pick, I doubt the Wonderlick is ever even considered. If it is, IMO it should not be. The information gathered by NFL teams on high first round picks is so far superior to the Wonderlick, the idea of even putting it into the equation seems preposterous to me. At it's best, the Wonderlick is something to use to pare down a huge potential pool, far too big to evaluate individually, into a more manageable group. That simply isn't an issue with potential high NFL draft picks. These candidates have been (or should be) thoroughly evaluated. There are meetings with their college coaches and fellow players. Even their high school coaches, teachers and peers. They are brought in to talk with coaches and coordinators. They are asked to answer questions, FOOTBALL QUESTIONS, and answer on a chalk board/white board/whatever.  That information is SO much more relevant to evaluating a player's football intelligence, attitude, etc. 

 

The generic info from a test that also has many biases attached to the results MIGHT be something you look at for lower draft picks who you haven't been able to thoroughly vet. Even then, I'd use them with a LOT of grains of salt.

[Behindenemylines]

I agree Rosen got more than his fair share of chances.  You can’t be a total d-bag with zero personality and expect to keep getting chances when your talent is mid tier.  Even high tier talent only gets so much leash being a total d-bag

 

Rosen appears by all I’ve seen to be both mid tier talent and a high tier

D-bag

 

enjoy your millions, retirement and tennis 

 

Moving on to awesome Josh and our future Lombardi’s!

 

[Doc]

He went unclaimed off of waivers.  His NFL career is likely over.

[Patrick Duffy]

22 minutes ago, The Dean said:

Seriously though, for a high 1st round pick, I doubt the Wonderlick is ever even considered. If it is, IMO it should not be

I think it is considered to some extent. Probably not much when it comes to top draft pics, but could be more for later round pics. Which would maybe depend on the circumstances how much it may determine decisions on particular player that is picked. 

 

Honestly I don't know if it does or not, but I would think it at least plays some type of factor. I mean if not then what's the point of them even taking the test then?

[The Dean]

6 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I think it is considered to some extent. Probably not much when it comes to top draft pics, but could be more for later round pics. Which would maybe depend on the circumstances how much it may determine decisions on particular player that is picked. 

 

Honestly I don't know if it does or not, but I would think it at least plays some type of factor. I mean if not then what's the point of them even taking the test then?

 

 

Because it's cheap and for people not trained in research methodology and analysis, it is SOME information. Like you say, they may use it for lower round draft picks since they may have very little information about them. In their minds, this adds something. Similar to how some companies use it to pare down the pool of possibilities. 

[Putin]

On 8/17/2021 at 4:54 PM, billsbackto81 said:

No argument there. But Buffalo did everything possible to develop and provide him with players, scheme and an environment to thrive. What did the Jets and Cards do?

Cards did the right thing by not wasting time and getting rid of his a$$ , the Jets on the other hand well they’re the Jets .. 

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

No one needs to feel sorry for Josh Rosen. I saw every snap he played at UCLA as a lifelong season ticket holder. The red flags were there. Mora had to misdirect them all the time during news conferences. The kids family is rich as sin. He'll play tennis or go into politics or start a business. The problem with JR during his entire time as a Bruin was whether he really enjoyed or was passionate about football. And I think this factored in his ability to work his way into a NFL QB1 position. His journey and us selecting JA should forever be a testament to McB's ability and vision.

I think you're on to it right here. Rosen was never enough of a "jock" or "gym rat" to overcome adversity at the pro level. He's unlikely to connect with and inspire a diverse locker room of gladiators, many of whom are annually sacrificing their bodies for chances at brief careers. 

 

To the contrary, I commend McBeane for their holistic appreciation of Josh Allen.

[Patrick Duffy]

19 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Because it's cheap and for people not trained in research methodology and analysis, it is SOME information. Like you say, they may use it for lower round draft picks since they may have very little information about them. In their minds, this adds something. Similar to how some companies use it to pare down the pool of possibilities. 

I wouldn't say any team only has very little info about players in lower rounds. Lower round players that are on a teams board I'm sure that FO knows everything about that player that is needed regardless of the lower position.

 

I meant that the test may not play as much a factor for high 1st round pics as it would lower round pics. I wasn't assuming that due to any amount of info a team has on a lower pick. Was implying that imo the high 1st round pics that are like top 10 picks or whatnot, teams picking in that 1-10 part of 1st round pretty much have their mind made up regardless for the most part, in which case that test likely won't come into play much if any at all.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[Patrick Duffy]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:54 PM, billsbackto81 said:

No argument there. But Buffalo did everything possible to develop and provide him with players, scheme and an environment to thrive. What did the Jets and Cards do?

Yes in his 2nd year they did. But thankfully Bills have/had the right ppl in place to develop Allen the best way possible, even though he had crap surrounding him. He still made many great throws that would have changed the outcome of some games only to be dropped way too many times. But even though he had to be thrown in quicker than they wanted, this staff is so good that Josh still was developed quite well.

[Arkady Renko]

Sign Josh Rosen.  Sign Chad Kelly.  Trade Mitch and Davis Wood for a 2022 First Rounder!!!

[Mike in Horseheads]

Wheres 26 Copy and Paste ?

[The Dean]

11 hours ago, Arkady Renko said:

Sign Josh Rosen.  Sign Chad Kelly.  Trade Mitch and Davis Wood for a 2022 First Rounder!!!

 

 

I bet they can get a very high pick for Davis Wood!

[Doc]

Just now, The Dean said:

I bet they can get a very high pick for Davis Wood!

 

If Beane can swing that, he truly is a magician!

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

These are the crash and burn results I expected with Rosen, but not exactly how.

He is physically worse than anticipated. I thought he would be arrogant and injury prone, which would lead to these results.

 

I was certain Donald was not going to be an option, so for Buffalo I liked Mayfield the most, because outside of Allen he is the most scrappy and wants to prove himself more than anyone else from that class. He was a walk on, which I think drives him, much like JA's lack of DI offers drive him. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade places now for anything.

 

I was a Mason Rudolph fan too, and still think he can be a successful Tannehill type QB in the right situation. He throws some really nice passes.

 

I would put Mariota in the same camp. Surprised some QB hungry team didn't try to obtain his services or Trubisky to compete for a starting role.

 

Well that rambled along 😄

[Arkady Renko]

19 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

 

I bet they can get a very high pick for Davis Wood!

Maybe they can get Ertz out of this???

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

25 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

These are the crash and burn results I expected with Rosen, but not exactly how.

He is physically worse than anticipated. I thought he would be arrogant and injury prone, which would lead to these results.

 

I was certain Donald was not going to be an option, so for Buffalo I liked Mayfield the most, because outside of Allen he is the most scrappy and wants to prove himself more than anyone else from that class. He was a walk on, which I think drives him, much like JA's lack of DI offers drive him. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade places now for anything.

 

I was a Mason Rudolph fan too, and still think he can be a successful Tannehill type QB in the right situation. He throws some really nice passes.

 

I would put Mariota in the same camp. Surprised some QB hungry team didn't try to obtain his services or Trubisky to compete for a starting role.

 

Well that rambled along 😄

I feel like I was the only pro-allen guy.  I was just at the crossroads of - we never hit home runs because we never swing for homers.  Swing for the fences, worst case scenario you're right back in the same spot.  Rocket arm, plus athlete, seemed like a good kid, super competitive. 

[The Dean]

1 hour ago, Arkady Renko said:

Maybe they can get Ertz out of this???

 

I think Entz is more likely.

[Albany,n.y.]

There's no such thing as an early round QB getting a raw deal in the NFL.  Every time I see someone say this I know the player didn't meet the person's expectations and they continue to make excuses for the guy.  The reason why I feel this way is that the coaches see these guys just about every day in practice.  It doesn't take that long to realize the guy doesn't have it.  These bad QBs become coach killers if the coach doesn't get him off the field.  I can't think of any 1st round QBs who busted with their 1st team & came back to have a good career.  The closest one I can find is Kerry Collins who got cut because he drank too much & cleaned himself up before having a decent career.  When it's due to on the field, they never come back, no matter how many teams try to revive their corpse.  Now some may want to say Jim Plunkett, but he didn't fail with NE, he got traded for multiple high draft picks & got cut later in SF before reviving his career in Oakland.  

 

We've heard it before around here, at least three times before:

 

1) I'm including Rob because he was traded for a 1st rounder even though the Bills were his 2nd team.  When Flutie beat out Rob Johnson I'll admit I felt Wade was stymieing Rob's development & Rob was getting a raw deal.  I hadn't learned yet that the coaches wanted to win with the guy who showed them more all week long & on Sundays.  I wasn't the only one who didn't want Flutie and I though Rob got screwed.  By the time Gregg & staff had enough of Rob I knew that if 2 coaches don't want a guy, it's the guy, not the coach.

 

2) When JP got yanked for Kelly Holcomb, Mularkey had to because the players knew JP wasn't ready to start & he would have had a mutiny on his hands if he kept JP in there.  Yet people around here were complaining that Mularkey was ruining JP & he was getting a raw deal.  It didn't take Dick Jauron long to figure out JP wasn't the answer and for a while it looked like Trent Edwards was the answer, but same as before, it didn't take Chan very long to dump Trent.  Once again, a failure with 2 coaches.  At least nobody complained Edwards "Captain Checkdown" was screwed over by the Bills.  I still remember after JP became a free agent there were still posts warning us that JP would sign with another team & come back to haunt us.  Then he had to go to the UFL & the JP fanboys were sure he'd get better coaching & make an NFL comeback.  

 

3) EJ Manuel.  It didn't take long for Marrone to realize EJ was a dud.  His hands were pretty tied EJ's rookie year, with his only competition being Thad Lewis & Jeff Tuel.  Then look at EJ's year 2.  Marrone, who at the time was more interested in winning & building his resume than banging his head against the wall trying to develop his former 1st round bust.  So pretty soon Orton was in & EJ was on the bench.  Some were saying EJ got a raw deal, yet once again he failed the 2 coach test when Rex Ryan came in & brought in Tyrod who beat EJ out   
 

So, if anyone still thinks Rosen got a raw deal, he's failed with 4 coaches, double my 2 coach rule.  The only ones who got a raw deal were the Cardinals & Dolphins who lost miliions paying Rosen.  

Edited August 19, 2021 by Albany,n.y.

[The Dean]

Rosen signed!  Falcons are the next stop.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/23/falcons-signing-quarterback-josh-rosen/

 

Still no sighting of Davis Wood

 

(Mods anyway to edit the title to add the signing? It's only fair to Rosen.

Edited August 24, 2021 by The Dean

[Simon]

25 minutes ago, The Dean said:

Rosen signed!  Falcons are the next stop.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/23/falcons-signing-quarterback-josh-rosen/

 

Still no sighting of Davis Wood

 

(Mods anyway to edit the title to add the signing? It's only fair to Rosen.

 

In the upper right corner of your original post there should be three dots that look like an ellipsis.

Click on them and it should give you a pop-up menu, one of the options being "Edit".

I'll do a temporary edit until you have a chance to change it to whatever you like.

[GunnerBill]

Well that makes more sense than them trading for Jake Fromm.

[freddyjj]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:52 PM, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

Sign him and we will have Three first  Round  picks at Qb. How many teams can ever say that! 

1980 Oakland Raiders.  Dan Pastorini, Jim Plunkett and Marc Wilson.  They won SB that year. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by freddyjj

[freddyjj]

5 hours ago, The Dean said:

Rosen signed!  Falcons are the next stop

Wow he is headed to 5th stop in less than 4 years.  Believe his personal Hell will involve auditioning for all 31 other teams in his career and proving they DIDN'T make a mistake by not drafting him.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Wow he is headed to 5th stop in less than 4 years.  Believe his personal Hell will involve auditioning for all 31 other teams in his career and proving they DIDN'T make a mistake by not drafting him.  

Serious karmic payback for the '9 mistakes' comment.  Somehow there's a T shirt in all this.  He'll have a closet full of jerseys to rival Fitz.  Except Fitz has been moderately successful in his endeavours. 😁

[JMF2006]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

 He'll have a closet full of jerseys to rival Fitz.  Except Fitz has been moderately successful in his endeavors. 😁

 

And  Fitz actually got to play/start

 

I fixed your spelling.....Americans don't like using "U" in favor,color endeavor ect

Edited August 24, 2021 by JMF2006

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

And  Fitz actually got to play/start

 

I fixed your spelling.....Americans don't like using "U" in favor,color endeavor ect

 

You mean "Americans don't like spelling"

[SydneyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, The Dean said:

Rosen signed!  Falcons are the last stop.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/23/falcons-signing-quarterback-josh-rosen/

 

Still no sighting of Davis Wood

 

(Mods anyway to edit the title to add the signing? It's only fair to Rosen.

 

Edited for accuracy.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

40 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

And  Fitz actually got to play/start

 

I fixed your spelling.....Americans don't like using "U" in favor,color endeavor ect

🤨

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Serious karmic payback for the '9 mistakes' comment.  Somehow there's a T shirt in all this.  He'll have a closet full of jerseys to rival Fitz.  Except Fitz has been moderately successful in his endeavours. 😁

Do you even get a jersey if you don’t make it to the season?

[eball]

Well, there goes our chance to steal a pick from them with Fromm (right @dave mcbride?)

 

It was a nice thought.

[Buffalo Boy]

8 hours ago, The Dean said:

Rosen signed!  Falcons are the next stop.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/23/falcons-signing-quarterback-josh-rosen/

 

Still no sighting of Davis Wood

 

(Mods anyway to edit the title to add the signing? It's only fair to Rosen.

Fire Beane!!!!!

He must have been asleep at the wheel to miss that opportunity 😜

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, eball said:

Well, there goes our chance to steal a pick from them with Fromm (right @dave mcbride?)

 

It was a nice thought.

Oh well.