Bills sign Emmanuel Sanders

[Coach Tuesday]

I still expect them to draft/sign speed.

[Frat-Train]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I still expect them to draft/sign speed.

Me too.  But I LOVE the vet presence in our WR room.  These guys are all gamers.  To think just a year ago, Beane was looking into ES as a #1a to smoke, before the Diggs trade...   Now he’s our #2.  Love it!

[JerseyBills]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I suspect he also will get on the field in more 10 personnel.   There really was no other player who could do what Beasley did for us.  Now we have Sanders that can.  Good for RZ, moving the sticks and redundancy in case of injury or just breathers.

 

It is more than I’d want to pay for what I expect to be a #4 WR, but it’s not crazy.  I also understand why they’d go this route rather than to just draft a rookie for it.  Sanders is way more of a sure thing.

Exactly. Look what happened in the playoffs with Beez and Davis banged up. Sanders would have been a blessing to have 

[Greg S]

Allen has some nice weapons here and he is only getting better as a QB. I think the Bills offense will be better this year assuming no serious injuries. I would expect Beane to focus on D when its draft time. 2021 is going to be an exciting season no doubt.

[mjt328]

Hopefully he still has some gas left in the tank, because this was a surprisingly high contract (more than a $6 million cap hit).

I figured they were going to eventually land John Brown's replacement for about half that cost, once the market started drying up.

This signing seems to be more about the Bills really wanting Emmanuel Sanders, rather than landing a bargain deal.

 

Sanders did always catch my eye back when he was playing for the Steelers, and later the Broncos.  But since he got traded to the 49ers and then signed with the Saints, I haven't noticed him making much impact.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I still expect them to draft/sign speed.

I would love to see Mckenzie brought back. We need a return man. I'm interested to see how they fill it. 

 

 

[DCOrange]

12 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

also .. since he is a cut casualty and not a end of contract free agent .. he will not count against compensatory picks.

I don’t think we’re getting a comp pick anyways. At best we’re probably looking at a 6th or 7th rounder and there’s no guarantee the NFL even goes that deep with comp picks next year. 

[FLFan]

9 hours ago, DCofNC said:

There it is, in his 5th year he did something and it’s been 5 years since he’s broken 1000 yards.  
 

Now we have the Bills homers running in to show me that a 10 year vet outperformed a rookie who converted from RB to WR at the NFL level.  Oh nooo.  You have a speed guy who hasn’t put up jack in terms of YPC vs 2 guys who are just coming into their prime and comparing Fuller to him w Fuller out producing him in 11 games last year.. ohh super star status here.   I hate this board, the ratio of rational people to complete Beane homers is 1: 900

Feel free to leave at any time.  

[Don Otreply]

What I noticed most in the highlights was that Brees’s arm strength is virtually non existent compared to Josh Allen’s  I guess we are officially spoiled when it comes to arm talent, jmo. 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, babulator said:

 

I'd ask you the same question. You're in full blown forum rage because were not all over the moon for Sanders.

 

I'm underwhelmed, you're in a frothy frenzy, we can agree to disagree. Maybe lay off the coffee in the AM.

Just don’t kick your dog and all is fine.   Lmao @ you being at a 9 level of rage over a productive vet on a 1 year deal whose gonna be in the wr3/4 slot 😂😂
 

Thanks for the chuckles you’ve provided. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Teddy KGB

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

 

This is impressive.  

He looks great!!!

And he's basically the #1 WR out there with Thomas being injured,  he'll have very favorable matchups here. 

This got me excited 

Agreed! But he better get used to some speed/velocity differences on those incoming passes...I suppose playing with Big Ben years ago will help in that regard, lol. 

[CheshireCT]

57 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Hopefully he still has some gas left in the tank, because this was a surprisingly high contract (more than a $6 million cap hit).

I figured they were going to eventually land John Brown's replacement for about half that cost, once the market started drying up.

This signing seems to be more about the Bills really wanting Emmanuel Sanders, rather than landing a bargain deal.

 

Sanders did always catch my eye back when he was playing for the Steelers, and later the Broncos.  But since he got traded to the 49ers and then signed with the Saints, I haven't noticed him making much impact.  

 

Seems you're right - the plan all along was to get ES and cut Brown. I won't pretend to be a football scouting expert, so I would just say he must do something particularly well (that Brown didn't do) that Daboll wants to integrate into the offense.

 

I was also surprised to see the move considering our cap limitations, so they must really value him.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I really like this signing. 

 

Totally different player than John Brown. A more complete WR than Brown. Age is a concern but damn, the guy is still producing. He should be able to fill in and run a lot of the routes that Beasley runs as well as some of the routes that Diggs runs. He's great insurance for both. 

 

This probably means McKenzie isn't coming back?

 

Bring in Zach Ertz somehow and draft a speedy WR and I think we are set on offense. 

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, CheshireCT said:

 

Seems you're right - the plan all along was to get ES and cut Brown. I won't pretend to be a football scouting expert, so I would just say he must do something particularly well (that Brown didn't do) that Daboll wants to integrate into the offense.

 

I was also surprised to see the move considering our cap limitations, so they must really value him.

 

I think what he can do that Brown can't is completely mirror Diggs' route possibilities and playing style.  They can run the same plays/routes for each of them, letting them "mirror" the playbook to use either half of the field (or any depth) to run any route.  He's also able to play in the slot (something Smoke didn't seem to love doing) and he's a great run blocker.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[DCOrange]

3 minutes ago, CheshireCT said:

 

Seems you're right - the plan all along was to get ES and cut Brown. I won't pretend to be a football scouting expert, so I would just say he must do something particularly well (that Brown didn't do) that Daboll wants to integrate into the offense.

 

I was also surprised to see the move considering our cap limitations, so they must really value him.

Sanders is simply a good and versatile player. It’s not really that complicated. They signed a good player to a one year deal and are just hoping this isn’t the year he massively declines. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

12 hours ago, LEBills said:

Not who I was hoping for but he was actually pretty good with New Orleans last year. Including getting deep completions. And that’s with Brees really struggling to get the ball downfield.

This^^^^^. If you watch his highlight tape from last year, how many of Brees's passes did Sanders have to go dig down out of the dirt basically because it barely made it to him on intermediate routes? Just sayin'

[MAJBobby]

 

[machine gun kelly]

He’s ok depth going into his 13th year.  Since he’s the 4th WR, it’s fine.  Only saved basically $2 mil. from Brown.  I haven’t seen the contract, but $6 mil for one year means it’s really $6 mil.  For the author on McKenzie, absolutely we need to sign him.  He’s not expensive and has value.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

I think what he can do that Brown can't is completely mirror Diggs' route possibilities and playing style.  They can run the same plays/routes for each of them, letting them "mirror" the playbook to use either half of the field (or any depth) to run any route.  He's also able to play in the slot (something Smoke didn't seem to love doing) and he's a great run blocker.

Fun facts about Emmanuel Sanders:

 

He has played 11 seasons and only played on losing teams twice (the 2017 and 2018 Broncos). Teams he has played on have a collective record of 110-66 in the regular season and 8-5 in the postseason. He has played in three Super Bowls, and in the one that the Broncos beat McBeane's Panthers in, he had 6 catches for 83 yards. Indeed McDermott probably remembers that SB performance; Sanders accounted for over half of Denver's receiving yardage and 40 percent of Denver's total offensive yardage. He was also in position to have the potentially game-winning TD catch in the SF-KC Super Bowl last season (having beaten KC's deep coverage), but the throw was out of his reach. 

 

My takeaway: Sanders is a winner who is used to winning. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Process said:

We all knew $6M was too much for Sanders but this makes it look even worse. 

 

 

I like Brown, but do you really think Brown is better than Sanders? Sanders' career is borderline elite. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

So if both Brown and Sanders max out their deals, we're talking about the difference of about 1mill? In the grand scheme of things, not huge if we get what we hope from Sanders. 

[JGMcD2]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I like Brown, but do you really think Brown is better than Sanders? Sanders' career is borderline elite. 

Sanders isn’t a flashy name... that’s the whole issue with all of this. He’s always been super productive but never really THE guy in an offense... so he’s never been super hyped up. 
 

Fans are just going to react like fans when they don’t see a big name they PERCEIVE as a stud because they put up big fantasy numbers. Most couldn’t tell you about their route running ability, ability to play multiple positions, leadership qualities, separation on routes, etc BUT they can tell you they picked Emmanuel Sanders up week 13 last year and he didn’t have a great fantasy week so HE IS TRASH! 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

He’s a veteran that can help in a pinch.

 

But he’s not a #2 anymore.

[nucci]

This shouldn't be that big of a deal. Sanders is a good player who will help team. I don't care about his salary. Beane seems to know how to manage the cap.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

19 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Sanders isn’t a flashy name... that’s the whole issue with all of this. He’s always been super productive but never really THE guy in an offense... so he’s never been super hyped up. 
 

Fans are just going to react like fans when they don’t see a big name they PERCEIVE as a stud because they put up big fantasy numbers. Most couldn’t tell you about their route running ability, ability to play multiple positions, leadership qualities, separation on routes, etc BUT they can tell you they picked Emmanuel Sanders up week 13 last year and he didn’t have a great fantasy week so HE IS TRASH! 

I don’t agree with this.

 

We have eyes, a TV and computer.

 

He’s getting older, and he’s here to compete for a spot as evidenced by his one year deal.

 

Route running? All WRs on this team can run routes, it’s not unique to only Emmanuel Sanders.

 

He can help in a pinch, but he doesn’t move the needle at all.

 

Curtis Samuel would have raised an eyebrow because of his speed, youth, and rush ability.

[JGMcD2]

16 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I don’t agree with this.

 

We have eyes, a TV and computer.

 

He’s getting older, and he’s here to compete for a spot as evidenced by his one year deal.

 

Route running? All WRs on this team can run routes, it’s not unique to only Emmanuel Sanders.

 

He can help in a pinch, but he doesn’t move the needle at all.

 

Curtis Samuel would have raised an eyebrow because of his speed, youth, and rush ability.

Yeah we do all have eyes, a TV and a computer.. and you can scroll through this thread and look at all of the people who fail to use any of those tools and just throw out extraneous claims without anything to back them up. Just because you have these tools doesn’t mean you actually know how to use them and what you’re looking for...
 

You obviously haven’t used your eyes, TV or computer to find out that Sanders is an outstanding route runner. Of course route running isn’t unique to WR... that’s just way off base with what I said initially. Running very good routes IS unique to certain WR. Is Diggs not a better route runner than other WR in football because all other WR run routes too? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say... other than poke a hole in something while simultaneously failing to understand what you’re poking a hole in. 

You’re entitled to your opinion that he doesn’t move the needle because of his age (seems to be your main point)... I’m not disputing that. 
 

Samuel as an option for us flew out the window after Daryl Williams was signed... so I don’t understand why people keep bringing him up like we chose Sanders over Samuel. Of course Curtis Samuel is a good player... I never said anything to the contrary... but because he’s younger (doesn’t actually matter... people just think it makes you better because they’re less familiar... perceived upside, etc.) many would be much more excited for him than they are Sanders because Samuel was a buzz name this off-season. 
 

Samuel is the new shiny toy and Sanders has been around awhile so he’s less exciting. It doesn’t make him any less valuable... he’s outperformed Samuel since Samuel entered the league. Does Samuel have more upside... yeah... we’re not going for upside it’s a 1 year deal.... we’re focused on production right now and nothing suggests that Samuel as the #2/3 option here is a better fit for us than Sanders... other than the fact he’s younger... 

[Milanos Milano]

Sanders > Brown 

[ngbills]

Breshad Perriman on a minimum deal. Your speed guy. A ton of other WR's that could be had on a year prove it deal if not getting what they hoped for - Galloway, Fuller, Samuel, JuJu, 

 

Diggs/Sanders/Beasley/Davis (Kumerow, Hodgins, Gentry, Williams fighting for a spot or two). 

 

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

The thing they touted about Sanders just as much as his "route" running is his ability to get separation. If there is one thing we saw this year that stood out, it was Josh's ability to throw into a tight window where there was some separation. As much as Brown contributed, he was not the kind of guy to beat physical corners and get that window.  Diggs did. Beasley did and Gabe managed to use his body to toe tap or reach over defenders to make contested catches.  Brown did none of this. You had to scheme plays for him to get open. 

 

With Josh learning to read defenses better, scramble and make throws to his 2nd, 3rd and 4th options, Sanders plays right into the offense perfectly. This is why I think he's an upgrade, even though he is aging. He still caught 60+ for NO and has played with mostly crap QB's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, BillsRdue said:

The thing they touted about Sanders just as much as his "route" running is his ability to get separation. If there is one thing we saw this year that stood out, it was Josh's ability to throw into a tight window where there was some separation. As much as Brown contributed, he was not the kind of guy to beat physical corners and get that window.  Diggs did. Beasley did and Gabe managed to use his body to toe tap or reach over defenders to make contested catches.  Brown did none of this. You had to scheme plays for him to get open. 

 

With Josh learning to read defenses better, scramble and make throws to his 2nd, 3rd and 4th options, Sanders plays right into the offense perfectly. This is why I think he's an upgrade, even though he is aging. He still caught 60+ for NO and has played with mostly crap QB's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree with this. I dont think Sanders excels at the scramble and improvise game. Or at being a 3-4th option get open guy. I have always viewed him more as a timing route guy that you throw the ball to a spot and he will be there. Or that you hit on the quick slant. That has been his game the last few years at least. I see him being utilized more on the designed plays to get the ball out quick. Think first drives of the game or on short yardage passing plays. 

[Logic]

I posted this in the John Brown thread, and decided to paste it here as well:

I think it was @Hapless Bills Fan that said it here first, and then I saw Erik Turner and Greg Tompsett of Cover 1 talk about it on Twitter:

John Brown too easily got erased by aggressive press coverage last year. He too easily got erased from whole games, in general.

Seeing now how much Brown signed for, compared to how much Sanders cost, and then keeping in mind that the Bills didn't even ask Brown to take a pay cut (according to Brown)...it just seems like the Bills view Sanders as un upgrade.

In particular, as Turner pointed out: Teams started to play two-high safety zone coverage shells more and more as the year went on to force the Bills to dink and dunk their way own field. It took the offense some time to adjust, and Brown was not particularly helpful in these situations. By contrast, Sanders is more physical, a better route runner in general, and can work underneath more effectively. So while they gave up the speed and familiarity of Brown, they gained the physicality and route running of Sanders and, thus, theoretically gained the ability to more effectively operate against the two-high shells and/or to force defenses back into playing man-to-man.

TL;DR: Beane and McDermott seem to feel that Sanders is simply better than Brown, or at least more effective at doing what they need from a WR2. They replaced Brown with Sanders as a means of more effectively operating in the short and intermediate game, so that when teams go to soft zones, the Bills can more effectively counter.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Logic

[Clyde Smith]

51 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Breshad Perriman on a minimum deal. Your speed guy. A ton of other WR's that could be had on a year prove it deal if not getting what they hoped for - Galloway, Fuller, Samuel, JuJu, 

 

Diggs/Sanders/Beasley/Davis (Kumerow, Hodgins, Gentry, Williams fighting for a spot or two). 

 

 

You forgot Stills...Don't sleep, especially with Allen throwing.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Clyde Smith said:

You forgot Stills...Don't sleep, especially with Allen throwing.

 

Unclear on your meaning....Stills is not on the Bills team, do you feel we should pursue/sign him?

 

And while we're at it, general question to all here: what about Lil' Dirty (McKenzie)?

 

He's fast

He's shifty

He'll do "whatever" to help the team from playing scout-team QB to pinch-hitting at DB

He apparently talks crap to everyone at a record-setting pace - to the point where he hesitated when asked about how he and Josh Allen got along and said they had a "90% love, 10% hate, because I talk crap" relationship

 

He has some of the same problems that Logic discussed above, in being able to be neutralized by some of the coverage schemes teams used and by physical man coverage

 

[Clyde Smith]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Unclear on your meaning....Stills is not on the Bills team, do you feel we should pursue/sign him?

Thanks for the clarity. I thought he was STILL on the team lol

[Bakin]

My guess is he’s a good process guy...and he’s still got skills...and we will draft a speedster. 

I still like McKenzie ... kid can ball. He’s only 25 and runs a 4.42.

 

T THE P!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, BillsRdue said:

The thing they touted about Sanders just as much as his "route" running is his ability to get separation. If there is one thing we saw this year that stood out, it was Josh's ability to throw into a tight window where there was some separation. As much as Brown contributed, he was not the kind of guy to beat physical corners and get that window.  Diggs did. Beasley did and Gabe managed to use his body to toe tap or reach over defenders to make contested catches.  Brown did none of this. You had to scheme plays for him to get open. 

 

With Josh learning to read defenses better, scramble and make throws to his 2nd, 3rd and 4th options, Sanders plays right into the offense perfectly. This is why I think he's an upgrade, even though he is aging. He still caught 60+ for NO and has played with mostly crap QB's.

 

To this...IMO it should not be overlooked that Sanders was a teammate of Beasley at SMU.

 

Daboll, apparently at Beasley's urging, started incorporating some of the June Jones/SMU/Mouse Davis secondary route concepts in 2019 and more last year.  Which have been effective, but teams have been bracketing Beasley and shutting these down.

 

Brown is a skilled route runner, but had made several references to the complexity of the playbook, to rookie Gabe Davis "helping us with (the playbook)" - I don't think a playbook where the WR are expected to read the DB's body language and run one of several route options while using their own body language to signal the QB what they're gonna do, was playing to his core strengths as a WR.  IIRC there were several evident route miscommunications with Allen during the year.

 

I think those plays like an otter sliding into water for Sanders.  Not only can he swim well, he loves that stuff.

 

Signing Sanders is giving Daboll the chance to be chortling "yeah, Suckas, now we got two of 'em AND you gotta cover Diggs.  Oh, and Davis."

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

23 minutes ago, Logic said:

I posted this in the John Brown thread, and decided to paste it here as well:

I think it was @Hapless Bills Fan that said it here first, and then I saw Erik Turner and Greg Tompsett of Cover 1 talk about it on Twitter:

John Brown too easily got erased by aggressive press coverage last year. He too easily got erased from whole games, in general.

Seeing now how much Brown signed for, compared to how much Sanders cost, and then keeping in mind that the Bills didn't even ask Brown to take a pay cut (according to Brown)...it just seems like the Bills view Sanders as un upgrade.

In particular, as Turner pointed out: Teams started to play two-high safety zone coverage shells more and more as the year went on to force the Bills to dink and dunk their way own field. It took the offense some time to adjust, and Brown was not particularly helpful in these situations. By contrast, Sanders is more physical, a better route runner in general, and can work underneath more effectively. So while they gave up the speed and familiarity of Brown, they gained the physicality and route running of Sanders and, thus, theoretically gained the ability to more effectively operate against the two-high shells and/or to force defenses back into playing man-to-man.

TL;DR: Beane and McDermott seem to feel that Sanders is simply better than Brown, or at least more effective at doing what they need from a WR2. They replaced Brown with Sanders as a means of more effectively operating in the short and intermediate game, so that when teams go to soft zones, the Bills can more effectively counter.

Good post. Certainly more enlightening than the usual “he’s old he sucks” drivel 

[JGMcD2]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Well would you look at that... another stat where Emmanuel Sanders is better than Curtis Samuel... 

 

Amazing what happens when you use your eyes, a TV and computer. 

[teef]

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

2021 NFL League MVP and Repeat FF Overall QB1

Josh Allen OWNS the Intermediate area of the field (8-20 yard range).

Josh Allen is the #1 most accurate passer in that part of the field, and he gives his WRs all kinds of YAC opportunities because of his arm velocity.

He now has 3 crisp route-running separators in that 8-20 yard range.

There is no possible way to stop JA17 in 2021. 

55-60 Total Touchdowns in a real possibility.

how do you feel about him compared to watson?