CB in 1st round

[glazeduck]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree pass rusher is the greatest need. I just don't expect there to be a day one difference maker there at #30 who fits this scheme. Maybe someone like Joseph Ossai who they are scouting is, but he is a bit of a project for a team like the Bills because he needs a LOT of work as a down lineman. I'm fine with taking him, he is a high ceiling guy. I just don't know that he is that missing piece for 2021. Azeez Ojulari could get there, he again is not a natural scheme fit and is a bit smaller than Ossai which means I am more concerned about his ability to transition even in the longer term. I don't think a guy like Carlos Basham is worth a first round pick but if they went that route he is a bigger end who is going to play the run and be stout at the point of attack but who I don't really see as a dynamic pass rusher. 

 

So the question you have to ask is if there is a high ceiling guy at another premium position who is a more natural scheme fit for this team then should the Bills prioritise their need over someone who could make more impact immediately and still have that long term difference making potential? It's tough and being at #30 it is too hard to predict how the board will fall in front of them and what their options will look like. But if they are saying "Edge at #30, no matter what" that is the wrong approach. I am very sure that is not the way they are looking at it. 

Agree with a lot of this, but Beane has said time and again that he'll identify his guy and go get him. Ossai or Phillips might not last all the way until 30, but I think either could very feasibly fall into the mid 20s, in which case a trade up wouldn't be prohibitively expensive...

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I don’t mind taking a flyer on a guy in the late rounds, but y’all seriously want a guy in the first 2 rounds w/ the holes we have on this team? Pass rusher is what we need so this defense can go back to top form. 

 

Besides pass rusher, what other holes are you referring to?  I agree that pass rusher is the bigger issue, but do feel there's better chance of drafting a CB at #30 who can contribute and start right away than a DE or TE.

 

More hoping to see they still address edge thru FA , maybe the guy from the Bengals Benson believe was his name?

[I'm Spartacus]

2 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

The old man was a safety, not a cb.  He was not the impact player we should have gotten w a #1. (to small)

How old are you? Antoine Winfield was an pro bowl CORNERBACK and one of the surest tacklers in the NFL!

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Which pass rusher are we drafting at 30 who is going to be an instant difference maker? This DE class = meh

 

Yeah, we need a FA pass rusher.  At 30, I'm going straight up BPA, which is likely to be either LB, RB, OL, or IDL, IMO.  

[John from Riverside]

I am thinking about what they probably will do

 

They did have success with White at the end of the first round.

 

Would not shock me to see a big nickel kind of guy

[BarleyNY]

There should be good value for a CB at 30.  Probably well into second round talents by that pick but we’d have our pick of the majority of that tier CBs.  We will have to see how things fall.  

[appoo]

Would be a hard no for me. I like BPA, but within reason and also when you don't have any holes to fill.

 

Right now, I think the bills will enter the draft with two significant holes, and two weaknesses, one of which they may or may not have an answer in house for.

 

Holes:

 

1) Premier EDGE rusher. I don't see how they fill this at this point, without a trade and extend deal, such as Danielle Hunter. You could go out and sign someone like Lawson, Hassan Reddick, Ngukue (sp?), or Clowney - but you can't really justify them as being legit upgrades over both Hughes and Addison, which is what you're looking for. I would have said that about Watt or Shaq, but those guys aren't available anymore. Bills also aren't going to find this player by drafting someone at 30.

 

2) TE. This one I think they can fill by staying at 30, but it's basically Pat Friermuth or not at all, as there just aren't enough 1st round caliber TEs this year. Fry would be an excellent fit though, as he's got the size and athletecism to be an elite combo TE. He's not a guy that's going to run past defenders, but he's got great hands, very nimble, and will punish defenders running with the ball, and he's got a pretty good understanding of running routes. He's also got all the tools you'd want in an elite run blocking TE - something he didn't have to do too much of at Penn State, as they often had him running routes instead. If they can't get Fry, then they probably run with the what they have. Mix and Match Dawson and Lee Smith depending on match up and game plan.

 

Weaknesses:

 

1) #2 corner. Levi Wallace is probably an average #2 corner, and there's potential for Dane Jackson to surpass him. But this isn't so weak that you invest a first rounder on.

 

2) Speed WR. Here you have some options Kadarius Toney, Tutu Atwell, Rondale Moore, etc would be interesting picks at 61 or 94. Maybe someone like Kenny Stills. I know MLJ has been ban hammering away for Travis Etienne and he might be an interesting speed prospect as well

[OldTimer1960]

6 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

HIs old m an never lived up to his draft status.....

Disagree - I think that Antoine Winfield was very good and had a long NFL career.

6 minutes ago, appoo said:

Would be a hard no for me. I like BPA, but within reason and also when you don't have any holes to fill.

 

Right now, I think the bills will enter the draft with two significant holes, and two weaknesses, one of which they may or may not have an answer in house for.

 

Holes:

 

1) Premier EDGE rusher. I don't see how they fill this at this point, without a trade and extend deal, such as Danielle Hunter. You could go out and sign someone like Lawson, Hassan Reddick, Ngukue (sp?), or Clowney - but you can't really justify them as being legit upgrades over both Hughes and Addison, which is what you're looking for. I would have said that about Watt or Shaq, but those guys aren't available anymore. Bills also aren't going to find this player by drafting someone at 30.

 

2) TE. This one I think they can fill by staying at 30, but it's basically Pat Friermuth or not at all, as there just aren't enough 1st round caliber TEs this year. Fry would be an excellent fit though, as he's got the size and athletecism to be an elite combo TE. He's not a guy that's going to run past defenders, but he's got great hands, very nimble, and will punish defenders running with the ball, and he's got a pretty good understanding of running routes. He's also got all the tools you'd want in an elite run blocking TE - something he didn't have to do too much of at Penn State, as they often had him running routes instead. If they can't get Fry, then they probably run with the what they have. Mix and Match Dawson and Lee Smith depending on match up and game plan.

 

Weaknesses:

 

1) #2 corner. Levi Wallace is probably an average #2 corner, and there's potential for Dane Jackson to surpass him. But this isn't so weak that you invest a first rounder on.

 

2) Speed WR. Here you have some options Kadarius Toney, Tutu Atwell, Rondale Moore, etc would be interesting picks at 61 or 94. Maybe someone like Kenny Stills. I know MLJ has been ban hammering away for Travis Etienne and he might be an interesting speed prospect as well

I don’t think Moore ok Toney will be around late in round 2.

40 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Yeah, we need a FA pass rusher.  At 30, I'm going straight up BPA, which is likely to be either LB, RB, OL, or IDL, IMO.  

I would add CB as possible BPA as well.

[appoo]

6 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Disagree - I think that Antoine Winfield was very good and had a long NFL career.

I don’t think Moore ok Toney will be around late in round 2.

I would add CB as possible BPA as well.

If Toney was available at 30, I'd snag him, if Friermuth wasn't available.

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, glazeduck said:

Agree with a lot of this, but Beane has said time and again that he'll identify his guy and go get him. Ossai or Phillips might not last all the way until 30, but I think either could very feasibly fall into the mid 20s, in which case a trade up wouldn't be prohibitively expensive...

Question is are either of them worth trading 2nd or 3rd to move up for?  Phillips has a lot of injury history and even quit football at one point.  Not sure if Ossai is that good or not.

[ndirish1978]

There is a LOT of value at CB outside of the 1st round. With us picking at 30 we may as well wait til round 2 to pick up a Melinfowu or Joseph, we could wait a bit later and still get Mukuamu or Trill Williams. I'd love to pick up Shaun Wade or Haseem Nasirildeen as our Big Nickel in the 2-3 range. Because of that, we should look to another position in the 1st. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by ndirish1978

[glazeduck]

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

There is a LOT of value at CB outside of the 1st round. With us picking at 30 we may as well wait til round 2 to pick up a Melinfowu or Joseph, we could wait a bit later and still get Mukuamu or Trill Williams. I'd love to pick up Shaun Wade or Haseem Nasirildeen as our Big Nickel in the 2-3 range. Because of that, we should look to another position in the 1st. 

I don't feel like Mukuamu's getting talked about enough and Trill and Joseph both feel like their best FB is still ahead of them. I personally think Wade is a pretty decent fit @ corner for us too...

[Rigotz]

5 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

The old man was a safety, not a cb.  He was not the impact player we should have gotten w a #1. (to small)

 

You need a history lesson, my friend.

 

Antoine Winfield was a CORNERBACK for the Bills and Vikings and he was a very good one.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Which pass rusher are we drafting at 30 who is going to be an instant difference maker? This DE class = meh

You never know who might fall or if we trade up. Maybe Beane finds a diamond in the rough. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

why is CB not a hole that we need to fill?

 

Levi isn’t that good.  We have no clue if Dane is good.  Injuries happen all the time (Tre’davious, Norman, Wallace and Dan all

missed games last season).

 

Yes, pass rush needs to be upgraded.....but so does CB2.  It IS a hole and if CB is BPA in any round when we pick, they should definitely be considered.  It’s a passing league and corners are vital.  Not sure if there are any pass rushers in the draft that will make an instant impact 

It’s always a hole every year for almost every team. Good GMs draft CBs every year. I just don’t think it’s a big enough one where we need to get someone within the first 2 rounds. White, Johnson, Wallace = a solid group IMO. You may be right though seeing how much his regime values defensive backs.
 

Wallace sealed the game against the Steelers with that pick and has played damn well for an undrafted guy. He’s not top tier, but he’s a average #2. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

This entire thread makes me feel like a trade back or two is more likely in the cards. Not many 1st round grades, but many in the 2nd-4th.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Besides pass rusher, what other holes are you referring to?  I agree that pass rusher is the bigger issue, but do feel there's better chance of drafting a CB at #30 who can contribute and start right away than a DE or TE.

 

More hoping to see they still address edge thru FA , maybe the guy from the Bengals Benson believe was his name?

 
 

1) DE 2) TE 3) RG 4) RB

[appoo]

14 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 
 

1) DE 2) TE 3) RG 4) RB

RG isn't any longer. Not a lot of guys I'd want at 30 vs getting a 2nd second rounder and maybe a 4th.

[NewEra]

57 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

It’s always a hole every year for almost every team. Good GMs draft CBs every year. I just don’t think it’s a big enough one where we need to get someone within the first 2 rounds. White, Johnson, Wallace = a solid group IMO. You may be right though seeing how much his regime values defensive backs.
 

Wallace sealed the game against the Steelers with that pick and has played damn well for an undrafted guy. He’s not top tier, but he’s a average #2. 

They are a decent group that our coaching staff won’t consider put in man against the chiefs for a second.  Making our defense one dimensional.  Just like our offense. We might be able to get by with those guys vs KC but our O is going to have to put up 35+...... unless we get Danielle Hunter

 

and as it turns out, they didn’t even tender Wallace....he may not even return. I think we need another good corner

Edited March 16, 2021 by NewEra

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 
 

1) DE 2) TE 3) RG 4) RB

 

Hope you're not expecting any of those make a contribution to improve the team in 2021.  A RG may start as a sub, the DE and RB would likely be inactive.  Maybe the TE is active and plays when they go with 12 personal, but expecting much out of a rookie TE on a team with SB aspirations is likely going to be disappointing.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, appoo said:

Would be a hard no for me. I like BPA, but within reason and also when you don't have any holes to fill.

 

Right now, I think the bills will enter the draft with two significant holes, and two weaknesses, one of which they may or may not have an answer in house for.

 

Holes:

 

1) Premier EDGE rusher. I don't see how they fill this at this point, without a trade and extend deal, such as Danielle Hunter. You could go out and sign someone like Lawson, Hassan Reddick, Ngukue (sp?), or Clowney - but you can't really justify them as being legit upgrades over both Hughes and Addison, which is what you're looking for. I would have said that about Watt or Shaq, but those guys aren't available anymore. Bills also aren't going to find this player by drafting someone at 30.

 

2) TE. This one I think they can fill by staying at 30, but it's basically Pat Friermuth or not at all, as there just aren't enough 1st round caliber TEs this year. Fry would be an excellent fit though, as he's got the size and athletecism to be an elite combo TE. He's not a guy that's going to run past defenders, but he's got great hands, very nimble, and will punish defenders running with the ball, and he's got a pretty good understanding of running routes. He's also got all the tools you'd want in an elite run blocking TE - something he didn't have to do too much of at Penn State, as they often had him running routes instead. If they can't get Fry, then they probably run with the what they have. Mix and Match Dawson and Lee Smith depending on match up and game plan.

 

Weaknesses:

 

1) #2 corner. Levi Wallace is probably an average #2 corner, and there's potential for Dane Jackson to surpass him. But this isn't so weak that you invest a first rounder on.

 

2) Speed WR. Here you have some options Kadarius Toney, Tutu Atwell, Rondale Moore, etc would be interesting picks at 61 or 94. Maybe someone like Kenny Stills. I know MLJ has been ban hammering away for Travis Etienne and he might be an interesting speed prospect as well

 

What if Levi is not back? If he isn't CB2 is the biggest hole in the starting lineup.

[Simon Says]

21 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I don’t mind taking a flyer on a guy in the late rounds, but y’all seriously want a guy in the first 2 rounds w/ the holes we have on this team? Pass rusher is what we need so this defense can go back to top form. 

Bills didnt tender Levi Wallace so, Corner IS a hole to fill

[Southern_Bills]

21 hours ago, bigK14094 said:

HIs old m an never lived up to his draft status.....

 

I really hate that somehow a players career is stained because he didn't do something some analyst hack thought he could do.

 

Players can't be held responsible for where they are drafted, they don't control that. If they were an above average NFL player at their position that's all that should matter.

[glazeduck]

On 3/15/2021 at 8:52 AM, glazeduck said:

CB might be an option for our first pick if we trade back, but I don't see a reasonable value at 30... Fairley, Horn and Surtain are the clear top 3 and all will likely be long gone by 30. From there there's a fairly wide gap and then another grouping of bigger CBs that would all fit our system well -- all or many likely available at the bottom of 2: Adebo (my preference), Newsome, Melifonwu, Keith Taylor, Stokes (his 40 will push him up draft boards but I don't love him for us anyway) and Shaun Wade.

 

To the OP, there's a bunch of guys I like in the 3rd more than Samuel too: St. Juste, Mukuwamu, Joseph, Campbell.

Adebo killed his pro day today: 

 

Height: 6’1″

Weight: 198 lbs

Forty-Yard Dash: 4.42 Seconds

Vertical Jump: 36.5″

Broad Jump: 10’1″

Three-Cone Drill: 6.7 Seconds

Twenty-Yard Shuttle: 4.09 Seconds

Bench Press: 18 Reps at 225 lbs

 

I think fans are sleeping on him. He'll go earlier than most think. His tape from a few years ago showed HIGH HIGH end talent...

Edited March 19, 2021 by glazeduck

[billsbackto81]

Nonsense! Haven't you heard, we re-signed Levi Wallace. CB2 is the least of our concerns. Well, at least that's how many posters here feel😒

 

It's tiring reading how many here are content with mediocrity. Always reading the old adage, " well you can't have an All Pro at every position". Duh! 

 

We can do better than Levi and not break the bank. I don't hate him I just feel he's nothing more than good depth. Just because he beats out the dead weight brought in to compete against doesn't make him starting caliber. JMHO.

[glazeduck]

3 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Nonsense! Haven't you heard, we re-signed Levi Wallace. CB2 is the least of our concerns. Well, at least that's how many posters here feel😒

 

It's tiring reading how many here are content with mediocrity. Always reading the old adage, " well you can't have an All Pro at every position". Duh! 

 

We can do better than Levi and not break the bank. I don't hate him I just feel he's nothing more than good depth. Just because he beats out the dead weight brought in to compete against doesn't make him starting caliber. JMHO.

I get both sides of it... You want to love and support your guys, even if they're lesser than, and Wallace is a great story, so it'd be cool to see him succeed. Add to that that he performed admirably -- sometimes even well -- last season, and I'm not sure going into next season with him as CB2 would be cause to call it a year or anything like that. 

 

That said, yes, I definitely think he (and certainly Dane Jackson) can be upgraded. The good news is, our needs are shrinking by the day and there's a TON of CB talent between the FA pool and incoming draft class to help there. 

[JerseyBills]

It all depends how high the staff is on Dane Jackson. I think this roster is set up where we go BPA in first 2 rounds.. 

[DCOrange]

I think Beane is once again setting us up so that we don't feel like we're forced to reach for a need in the draft and can instead see what talent falls to us. Having said that, I do still think Joseph Ossai for example has the traits that Beane likes in a prospect.

 

As a Syracuse fan, I'm definitely rooting for Melifonwu to be an early selection. I don't think I'd take him at #30 personally, but he'd be my choice with our 2nd round pick if he's still around at that point. Like Adebo, he killed his pro day today. 6'2.5", 4.48 40, 41.5" vert, 11'2" broad jump; he's an athletic freak like his bust of a brother was. I suppose in a relatively weak CB draft at the top, a guy with his traits and flashes could potentially sneak into the 1st round.

[glazeduck]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I think Beane is once again setting us up so that we don't feel like we're forced to reach for a need in the draft and can instead see what talent falls to us. Having said that, I do still think Joseph Ossai for example has the traits that Beane likes in a prospect.

 

As a Syracuse fan, I'm definitely rooting for Melifonwu to be an early selection. I don't think I'd take him at #30 personally, but he'd be my choice with our 2nd round pick if he's still around at that point. Like Adebo, he killed his pro day today. 6'2.5", 4.48 40, 41.5" vert, 11'2" broad jump; he's an athletic freak like his bust of a brother was. I suppose in a relatively weak CB draft at the top, a guy with his traits and flashes could potentially sneak into the 1st round.

Almost posted basically the exact same comment but it got too wordy lol

 

Basically our "needs" are now: CB2, pass-rusher, NT, IOL, TE, RB and really none of them are dire (hence the parentheses). And maybe the best thing about each of those needs is that they can be depth/developmental needs -- not guys we're going to need to be stars right away.

So while I'd LOOOOOVE an Ossai/Phillips/Paye, if we have to settle for more of a situational pass-rusher in the 5th (I've got my eye on Rashad Weaver and Kaindoh) -- a guy that might take a year or two to round out his game -- we can afford to do that. Same situation at RB, while you'd love an Ettiene, if you have to settle for a Kylin Hill or Jermar Jefferson, that guy's not going to need to tote the rock 25 times to start the season. Ditto for TE, NT, etc.

 

I think it's perfectly okay to lean into the fact that we're really good already and can draft for ceiling, rather than immediate impact.

[SirAndrew]

On 3/15/2021 at 3:20 PM, I'm Spartacus said:

How old are you? Antoine Winfield was an pro bowl CORNERBACK and one of the surest tacklers in the NFL!

I actually understand how some Bills fans might think Winfield wasn’t that great. He was a good player with us, but he didn’t become an all around great player before going to the Vikings. We never saw his full potential realized in Buffalo. Instead, we’d go on to draft corners in the first round year after year. 

[Rocket94]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I actually understand how some Bills fans might think Winfield wasn’t that great. He was a good player with us, but he didn’t become an all around great player before going to the Vikings. We never saw his full potential realized in Buffalo. Instead, we’d go on to draft corners in the first round year after year. 

Yes sir...Buffalo was a training camp for 1st round CB's. Play out their contracts and then gone!

[Locomark]

Pick BPA that provides an upgrade so that could be CB, DE, G, RB, speed WR/PR, BigNickel, LB.  I’m great with a CB at round 1 if it is for a CB2 starter with speed that can play man. 

[Rk_Bills86]

Depending on how the board falls - if we are going for CB with our first pick - theres a good chance we trade back before selecting. There are a good number of CBs in the draft

[IgotBILLStopay]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:38 AM, GLP said:

Bills should target Asante Samuel Jr. in 1st round. I'm all about pedigree when drafting. We should have drafted Clay Matthews instead of Aaron Mabin in 2009 (Ouch). 

not gonna happen - Adoree Jackson and Kyle Fuller are available for less than 10 mill aav - so why "waste a #1 on a CB this year" but I do like Asante Samuel Jr

Edited March 19, 2021 by IgotBILLStopay

[Special K]

1 hour ago, glazeduck said:

Adebo killed his pro day today: 

 

Height: 6’1″

Weight: 198 lbs

Forty-Yard Dash: 4.42 Seconds

Vertical Jump: 36.5″

Broad Jump: 10’1″

Three-Cone Drill: 6.7 Seconds

Twenty-Yard Shuttle: 4.09 Seconds

Bench Press: 18 Reps at 225 lbs

 

I think fans are sleeping on him. He'll go earlier than most think. His tape from a few years ago showed HIGH HIGH end talent...

 

I mentioned him earlier in the thread, but thought he might last into the fourth round....may have to be a consideration at pick 93.

 

I was wondering if anybody had a read on Elijah Molden from Washington....is he a good fit for the Bills D?? He’s not a “Junior”, but his father is former Saints CB Alex Molden. He looks like a late second to early third round pick.

[Bill from NYC]

6 minutes ago, Rk_Bills86 said:

Depending on how the board falls - if we are going for CB with our first pick - theres a good chance we trade back before selecting. There are a good number of CBs in the draft

I don't think that there are that many top corners available this year, but I fully agree that if the Bills once again go down this road, they should trade down and get more picks. 

Even though doing this was a disaster last time around, it would still be the right move if we go in this rather awful direction.

[Nextmanup]

On 3/15/2021 at 8:45 AM, Frez said:

We definitely could use a couple corners out of this years draft. I’m all for that! 

I totally agree.

 

People are focusing on acquiring an edge rusher to help the pass rush---adding another great cover CB can have the same effect.

 

 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

8 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I mentioned him earlier in the thread, but thought he might last into the fourth round....may have to be a consideration at pick 93.

 

I was wondering if anybody had a read on Elijah Molden from Washington....is he a good fit for the Bills D?? He’s not a “Junior”, but his father is former Saints CB Alex Molden. He looks like a late second to early third round pick.

Molden is an interesting player in my view. Great instincts and play diagnosis, good tackler/run defender for the position, and a ballhawk who keeps his eyes in the backfield. Think he was a bit of a Swiss Army knife in college playing inside or outside, but he's a bit undersized for the NFL so probably a nickel guy at this level. 

 

Don't think he'll be a star b/c he lacks elite length/speed, but should be a solid starter for someone. 

[Locomark]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I totally agree.

 

People are focusing on acquiring an edge rusher to help the pass rush---adding another great cover CB can have the same effect.

 

 

No a CB is not equal to a DE. You can’t cover any great receiver for 5 seconds if there is no rush. You can however cover most anyone for 2 seconds if you have a strong rush. 

[Srw1525]

I like either the CB from Florida State and the CB from Syracuse